Spiral Knights - 4* FSC speedrun loadout/weapon numbers?

4* FSC speedrun loadout/weapon numbers?

15 replies [Last post]

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 21:24

Tenkii

I'm try to come up with a budget FSC loadout, something for the skilled-enough-but-paywalled vanguards-to-be. I'm assuming armor levels don't matter and weapon levels do, so maybe level 10 4* weapons:

Armor:
- Chaos Set

Shield:
- Swiftstrike

Weapon choices:
- Strike Needle - Trojan/Vanaduke
- Elemental Brandish - Primary sword choice: Compared to 5*, it loses one explosion, but it's not tangible for Voltedge/Glacius lines.
- Prisma Driver - Primary gun choice: Normal shots might be similar to Nova Driver's damage, but I think the charge for 4* has less bullets?
- Avenger - Heavy sword alternative for zombies and everything else. Compared to 5*, lacks width for the charge, so probably works better with just normal attacks.
- Electron Bomb - Zombies, prioritizes speed in killing large mobs of monsters.
- Freezing Atomizer - Pretty much just for Vanaduke, if you want to go for safety instead of speed. Lacks range in comparison to Shivermist.

Trinkets: [depends on weapon, assumed to be 5* trinkets]
- Sword based - DMG, ASI
- Gun based - DMG, ASI
- Hybrid - Gun DMG, Sword Dmg
- Hybrid/heating 5* support: (Gun/Sword) DMG, Bomb CTR
___

Questions/requests (When these are answered, I'll turn this into more of a 'guide' format:

1- Up to how many people in the party can a max damage Strike Needle OHKO trojans at D27?
2- How much damage does each max damage Strike Needle charge bullet do vs. Vanaduke?
3- Solo, how many max damage Strike Needle charges (no poison or other buffs) does it take to finish off the first Vanaduke phase?

___

The point of this loadout is for non-SL radiant farming/heating; The intent is to reach D28 ASAP, pretty much acting as a speed run set for a walled 'endgame' player. If 5* weapons are 'worse' than their 4* counterparts until level 8, then maybe (?) it'll be better to have at least one significant 4* item as your primary weapon - that's what this is for.

Wed, 02/05/2014 - 23:23

Bopp

please read original post

Please read the original post before responding. Tenkii is not asking for the ideal FSC loadout. He (or she) is asking for the ideal loadout for speed-running FSC with 4-star weapons at heat level 10.

Tenkii, I don't have the damage numbers you need, because I'm not going to go back and get 4-star versions of all of my weapons. But it's a nice thread. Good luck.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 12:12

Wyvernoflight

First off, I really like

First off, I really like where you are going with your set, its amazing for vana.

Chaos+swifty is amazing, nothing to add there. Maybe fill in some UV gaps with trinkets, but thats up to you.

Your idea of keeping the 4* versions of weapons is pretty smart, but you should consider making the 5* versions up to level 5. The radiant cost only gets extreme at ~6-8 (I don't remember when exactly) but until that point it should be cheap.

I would definitely recommend spending the cr to make the 5* bombs. The difference in range between 4* and 5* is huge: 4* shiv can't reach vana (as far as I'm aware) during his last stage, and 5* EV has much greater "suction," keeping mobs closer. I'm assuming that you are using those to support your sword/gun instead of dealing damage, so the bonus range that you would get from crafting the 5* comes without any severe penalty. The reduced charge times can be essentially negated if you invest a few radiants into getting them to level 5.

As for the gun, I have no idea how much damage a strike needle does, or how many people for it to one hit a trojan. From memory, I wasn't able to do this with the lv10 strike with 4 people on any floor. It would still be best to keep the strike instead of blitz (as their charges shoot the same number of bullets according to wiki), but if you ever accumulate enough radiants, I would highly recommend that this would be the first thing that you heat to 5* lv10.

Your brandish is essentially in the same category as the strike, where it would be nice to have a 5* lv10, but 4* is more feasible. I would recommend heating this to max after blitz.

Overall, you have a great set already. I'm not sure if you were going for this, but everyone can earn a lot more cr from vana if they are faster at it, because completing it in 30min and getting 7k+3 tokens is much more efficient than a 45 min run for 8.5k+3 tokens (which means leave those poor lamps alone!).

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 13:04

Tenkii

Thanks for the input, Wyvern!

I am end-game 5* myself, but again, I wanted to make this for the people who might be blocked by radiants at the moment.

@trinkets:
Thanks for reminding me about Trinkets. I absolutely love them and have many loadouts depending on which weapons I want to focus on. I'm surprised I forgot to mention those, so I added a section for them.

@upgrading:
I'll keep that bit about heating to level 5 in mind. I did remember that heating didn't feel so bad up to a certain point when I last heated a 5* item. I wonder if the balance between that and some weapons' 5* charge upgrades are worth it?

@bombs:
Nice points about the bombs. I met someone recently who wanted to be a bomber and recently upgraded his bombs to 5*: He didn't seem to care much about his damage ("it's only a minor damage decrease anyway"), and used a Bomb Focus module with his Chaos Set to reap the benefits of his 5* bombs. Of course!
Pure bombers would just use a DMG trinket to max out, and have a free trinket for whatever they'd like (in my case, sidearms), but why not a CTR trinket if you're still heating? When I realized it, (wait for it--- charging----) it blew my mind.

I'm not sure about Shivermist, but I know EV's uses are more sparse, so it can probably get away with sacrificing 2-3 seconds of charging since you generally only need one per large wave of enemies. I miiiiight change my mind about keeping bombs at 4*. Where some weapons (Blitz) only gain damage from level up, it's a little harder to balance the choice to upgrade or stay when features like range and effect are involved.

@taking blitz/brandish to level 10:
Brandish, I can see pushing up, but I can only see Blitz for speeding up the Vanaduke fight. He takes up a relatively smaller part of the run, but if the upgrade to Brandish Charge can make a huge difference in level completion speed (using it as a primary weapon vs monsters), then it might be more valuable/worth it overall.

@final comments:
Yep! As far as I've experienced, 2-person runs have been the quickest, so I specifically wanted to ask about those. The intent of this is completely about completing runs as quickly as possible for that reason of efficiency :) In the past, maybe Crowns were more important in order to ensure you could buy the energy to make up for your runs, but now, the important thing is reaching the treasure boxes.

In hindsight, I heated a 4* Pepperbox and it could OHKO or nearly OHKO trojans solo with max gun damage. Needle Shot deals effective damage, so I'm nearly sure it will OHKO in 2-person parties as well... maybe.

Mon, 02/10/2014 - 16:41

Poopsie

...

Wish I have a will to test myself and answer your questions. Uh, just some random opinion... based on your loadout, the fastest move for 1vs1 zombie is doing strike needle charge, followed by sword swings if not died yet. The charge cancels zombie attack for a while that you are safe for a moment. Avenger charge is much less reliable than 4* brandish counterpart. I could see myself upgrading it into divine avenger immediately and stuck with low level if I was newbie. 4* prisma driver charge only split into 2 bullets, 5* splits into 4 bullets. Battle sprite perks too I guess >_>

I think speed running OCH works better for farming radiants (depth 29 treasure boxes)? Something like saving crowns to buy OCH (two good weapons included) then you could skip almost everything except the danger rooms. Also, a good way to get rid of extra eternal orbs.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 07:41

Momofuku

I agree that 2 person runs are quickest. You might not be able to OHKO Trojans with 3-4 people, plus it causes the mobs to scatter more.
I personally prefer Volcanic Plate Shield when running FSC with full chaos. It lets me make risky plays against Trojans/Vana without much punishment, since the shield even at level 1 can tank several Wheel hits, take several Trojan smashes in the head, and at least one Vana smash without breaking. However, Swiftstrike has more general PVE applications, so it'll depend on playstyle/familiarity with FSC.
Speaking of Chaos, I also prefer 2x Penta Heart Pendants due to how shadow fire is an instant kill for chaos users who haven't picked up a vitapod yet.
Blazebrand, Strike Needle, and Freezing Atomizer are all you need to optimize kills. I used to pack a gun (Argent, Storm Driver) but it's really unnecessary. Zombies are slow and there are few turrets you'd need to gun down that you can't triple slash to death.
If you're going duo, you only need one Freezing Atomizer user and the other person can pack a gun anyway (Gigawatt Pulsar, etc).
Strike Needle Lv 10 is better than Blitz Needle Lv 5. Damage and charge speed-wise. As for which weapons to upgrade to 5* first and level up? I think it's a tough call between getting Shivermist (for the wider radius) or Combuster (for extra charge burst). I'd probably go for the latter since it has more general PVE killing power outside of FSC too.
It's still faster to farm Radiants in d28 arcade speed runs, but FSC is a good mix of Radiant and crown output. It's probably recommended to start with Normal difficulty to die less and still get solid crown returns (thanks to boss tokens) while learning the monster spawn locations and killing Trojans at spawn.

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 10:54

Tenkii

Speed

@Defense gear:
For the sake of this thread, assume that the player is "good" but "stuck" thanks to Radiants. I prioritize offense here because in the end, I'm assuming a skilled player will either not get hit or only get hit if he can afford to (ex: in D25's "5:00" fire trap room, running in, grabbing sprite, catching fire, using status/hp restore, then running out of the room with the sprite). If not, then it's a matter of playing better.

In that sense:
- Plate shield means sacrificing ASI bonus (which is alright if you have ASI UVs).
- Using a freeze bomb tends to trap enemies in a staggered position and sacrifices one attacker if used to hold Vanaduke in position. While in some sense, it can be safer, it's also clearly slower.

@Farming location:
I haven't done T3 OCH yet, but last time I saw a result about it in search, I read it gave 3-9 Radiants, which is about the same as FSC. A friend got a D28 Treasure Vault and got no Radiants at all. :\

While I am a proponent of doing Arcade for fun, can you consistently get to d28 from d19 in under 30 minutes? 30 minutes is about a 'worst case' FSC speed run solo, edging more towards 25 minutes on an average run. How about OCH?

Tue, 02/11/2014 - 14:14

Poopsie

...

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/90161 <- These speed runs with some minor mistakes. A bit tricky than FSC, since sometimes you need to kill gremlin healer to advance danger rooms faster, and need to know the moves to kill mortar fast at danger rooms. I could bet for 19 minutes or a bit less. I blame my loading speed too, it's holding up the other teammates. The best thing about OCH, you can invite anyone from fourth depth (before boss floor) and they still get seerus piece.

I read it somewhere but too lazy to search them so...
1. red treasure boxes has 2x chance to drop rarity than green treasure boxes (probably this is why treasure vault seem less than ordinary boss runs)
2. OCH and FSC have same 12 red treasure boxes, so pretty much about the same, I think I remembered krakob or zeddy said OCH boxes is on depth 29, so it's just a bit more chance.

I guess the best way is still by keep doing UFSC, the crown/mats payout almost cancel out the cost, the problem is finding teammates and latency most likely >_>

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 19:15

Finale-Flare

I have a speedrun set. I can

I have a speedrun set. I can finish elite vanaduke in 28 minutes consistently and receive a payout of 7.5k crowns and the 3 tokens.

Here is (possibly) the best FSC speedrun no UV loadout:

Armor: Chaos set (duh)
Weapon 1: Boltbrand if 4*, combuster if 5* (I use cpmbuster, it is very good when it gets to level 7ish. )
Weapon 2: Electron Vortex (Extremely useful, shaves off around 5-8 minutes off the whole run because it concentrates your dps. The 4* version is OK, but 5* is far superior (mine is at lvl 5 for ultra ctr, but with chaos giving it vh is is just as good.
Weapon 3: Strike needle (At lvl 10 max dmg, it will one hit a trojan. However at the lowerdepths you need to have all the bullets hit.

Trinkets:
Elite trueshot
Penta maybe or elite quickstrike
Shield: Barbarous thorn shield

This set gives max dmg to swords and guns, vh to bombs, and ctr vh to all weapons. It is extremely effective, i must say.

If you want a demo of the set or have further questions, just add me ingame :)

Ign: Nefaron

Wed, 02/12/2014 - 19:14

Finale-Flare

To answer your questions: 1)

To answer your questions:
1) 4 people, depth 27. Elite. Ohko trojan, but all bullets must hit.
2) 248 per
3) I want to say 6, but I will have this data for you ahortly.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 01:58

#10

Orbwanter

From my experience in terms of slag clearing speed (assuming Vortex support) Brandish chargespam > Rocket Hammer dashes + Scorching Barrier > Troika chargespam > Alchemer chargespam > Avenger anything. This is from using maxed 5* weapons, though, I've never had to schlep it with 4* stuff. If you're recommending Chaos, Vortex and Shiver are worth upgrading to 5* even if you lose charge speed, the radius increase is that important.

I feel that Alchemer chargespam is actually slowed down by a Vortex, because it packs enemies too closely for optimal ricochet angles.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 03:44

#11

Krakob

@Orbwanter

Although I've had problems with it myself, DA chargespam should theoretically be more effective than Brandish chargespam as although I have not confirmed it, I have heard that DA shares charge speed with Brandishes, which would allow for more powerful charges (although slightly slower due to animation speed). Still, this should be a bit more dangerous as the DA charge leaves you exposed for longer.

http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Lancer_Knightz_(Guild)/Sword_Charges_Per_Minute#Data
Lancer Knightz data seems to imply that they do share charge time.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 04:13

#12

Finale-Flare

^Only issue is that DA

^Only issue is that DA charges knocks enemies out of the vortex and spreads them around, whereas the brandish doesnt do that.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 04:19

#13

Krakob

Really? I can't remember that. I've had that problem with Leviathan Blade charges, though.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 11:22

#14

Poopsie

@Orbwanter

I saw the video about alchemer + vortex combination but couldn't find it. Basically you need a silly setup. You stand at the middle right before vortex appears and release alchemer charge when zombies surround you. I think he killed about 4 - 5 out of 8 - 9 zombies on that single alchemer charge.

Thu, 02/13/2014 - 13:26

#15

Orbwanter

Ah, I hadn't tried it that way. I should give it a shot sometime, considering Scorching Barrier already makes standing in a vortex kind of effective.

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4* FSC speedrun loadout/weapon numbers?