Spiral Knights - I think the guildhall update was terrible, also radiants are an issue

I think the guildhall update was terrible, also radiants are an issue

20 replies [Last post]

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 14:19

Fehzor

First and foremost, there is absolutely no reason to buy furnishings because there is absolutely no reason to be in a guild in the first place.

Why? Three Reasons.
0. You have to pay for every last thing in the guildhall, which means that your progress will be cut down to size by paying into your guild if you're just starting out. Having veterans to pay for it would be a must.

1. It doesn't actually help you branch out or find a group of friends most of the time. Going on runs and joining randoms and then friending them is just as good as joining a guild. If you aren't over ambitious and make friends gradually on the content you can do, you'll become a veteran with veteran friends in some time. Joining a guild can be nice help on levels, but getting carried through the game by veterans is pathetic.

Any existing friends that you start the game with already know you and can communicate via steam or even through the SK chat. Forming a guild with them would be cool, but the chances of one of you quitting are enormous, and there isn't any benefit to having a guild.

2. None of the features benefit you at all. Guild training? Just go to EoS or whoever has it open. Krogmo in the guild hall? Why do you even care? Owning a statue of the snarbolax? I mean, it looks cool but IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING.

What people wanted
This:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/40011

is a link to Severage's thread. Severage documented pretty much everything suggested about guilds before the update was made. Severage, and all the other contributors to her thread, imagined guild halls a bit differently than they came out.

The biggest difference, was that Severage's guildhall wasn't based around fixing the in game economy or purely showing off to others. Players could choose to donate crowns for upgrades, but these upgrades were mostly non-cosmetic, and were designed as a way to bring people together as part of the guild. Severage did mention prices but the highest one was "Display Cases (Shadow Dungeon Bosses) 75,000 Crowns, 800 CE" which is nothing compared to what you have to pay to get the current boss trophies and more importantly, actually required beating the boss.
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TL;DR
Radiant Fire Crystals are in high demand and that makes OOO evil.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 00:40

Fangel

Aesthetics

Players want to customize their "living space" the same as they customize their armor. Players can buy all the accessories they want, but it won't make them better players. Guilds want to customize their halls because it's fun and looks nice, and if they're recruiting, then to attract potential guild members.

Empty guild halls and accessory-less armors don't scream "I'm unique" as much as guild halls with furnishings and fancy accessories.

Graveyard edit: Well jeez, I didn't even make my response in time.

Undead edit: Well apparently I left and came back and this thread is alive again. Go figure.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 18:51

Espeonage

I had touched upon this the other day with someone

It's just unfortunate that they haven't done anything towards that other important intention of guild halls (cradle defense or whatever), being over a year since; and with things as they have been, probably not within a timely future either. I don't know if the price slash was supposed to help prep for this or they realized that they missed the opportunity where interest was booming.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 19:28

Shidara

Pahahaha!

I love your TL;DR, Fehzor! Man, that cracked me up...

Ahem! Anyway, regarding the Guild Hall or just Guilds in general, there really isn't much of a point being in one. Sure, it's good if you like socializing but all it really is is an extended friends list that comes with a neat hub-area that you can decorate and hang out in, but your guild members have to be pretty wealthy to get a sizeable amount of decorations for it. There are only three functional facilities going for it; the Member Storage which allows you to deposit items for other members to make use of, the Energy Well which serves as a Bank of sorts, and I also include the Guild Hall since it allows you to test and compare weapon damage for all tiers in a safe environment. The rest is fluff and icing, and though the Auction House and Alchemy Stations are neat they aren't exclusive to the Guild Hall.

As for Guilds themselves, again, they're just an extended friends list. The idea of making proper organized teams for Lockdown and Blast Network sounds neat at first but once you realize that's all there is to it you begin to wonder just what the point is. There are no Guild-exclusive features or events that makes it worth the time and dedication to join or maintain a guild. There aren't any events that require (or indeed allow) a party larger than four Knights anyway so you can't take a hundred Knights to slay a really powerful boss, have an all-out war against another Guild or any kind of feature that allows your Guild to participate as a whole group. It's just a group of friends, essentially. I run a "Guild" with some close friends of mine that we had initially intended to expand upon and grow as a proper guild, but after mulling it over several times we came to the realization that there just isn't a point to it. We'll still keep it around because we think we made a cool name for it, but aside from that we might as well be guild-less.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 20:23

Large-Noodles

guilds are there just to have an easier chatting system with a bunch of friends
or maybe GLD if you're a lockdown lunatic.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 20:43

Shidara

@Large-Noodles

My point exactly. There isn't really a point to it beyond that. Guild Lockdown/Blast Network is hardly a selling point and is, as you adequately expressed, mainly targeted at those dedicated to the meta-game.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 23:03

Fehzor

I don't think that reworking guilds at this point is actually a necessity, just that spent a lot of time doing so and made an excellent update that somehow missed the purpose of having a guild in the first place entirely.

Mon, 02/17/2014 - 23:18

Njthug

It started off with a kiss Never expectin' this And now I'm here

Guilds are great if managed well, and the guild hall features are just an add-on. Guilds should be working together to have a "nice" guild hall instead of relying on others to make it happen. To add most guilds in this game end up just not thinking things out why don't we rent out rooms to have a bunch of bedrooms instead of community orientated rooms. Why don't we make rooms for members, vets, etc. end of the day only about 2 to 4 unique guild halls in this game, and you can't blame Three Rings for that it is the communities fault for not being able to well create great guilds.

Guilds don't have a huge part in Sk in terms of content, but they tend to be the most useful tool for most players, and usually once a player finds a guild they enjoy they rarely feel like leaving Sk.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 07:23

Momofuku

It is the closest thing to "Friend chat" available with /g. Without a guild (caveat: with people you like), your only chatting options are in public, zone/trade chat, or personal messages.

The actual guild itself is just to accessorize. After all, there's no real utility for jewelry (earrings, necklaces, engagement rings) but you can't deny their value and demand, right?

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 08:27

Njthug

I take your breath away and set you free so much pressure =0

@Momo --- I agree who needs a 500 dollar belt or 400 dollar wallet no one needs it, but they buy it to look sexy ofc, or you can just steal handbags and force the lady on a date that is always fun!

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 15:05

#10

Fehzor

But NJ, that's just the thing! Guilds shouldn't work together towards having a "nice" guild hall, because having a nice guild hall doesn't do anything without having a nice guild first-- which means that whatever effort goes into making the guildhall wonderful could instead be re-purposed towards assisting the guild. There are two examples of what I'm talking about--

0. Which would you rather see permanently removed from EoS:
The guild hall?
-or-
The mumble server, and access to any other software that could take its place?

1. Pretend that I just started a guild for 4-5* knights that focuses on killing vanaduke and farming various items. I have used my credit card to purchase 20K CE. Should I:
Campaign to build a snarbolax statue, getting all of my guildies in on it?
-or-
Host guild trivia night with prizes, buy some shadow keys and lead my guildies on cheap/free SL expeditions, or even give out a few free accessories to the veteran knights I consider friends?

As for blaming OOO, you can't. But if there were good guilds then OOO would get credit for having enabled them. OOO had an excellent opportunity to make unique and beautiful guild features that would inevitably lead to awesome guilds and teamwork oriented gameplay, and I can't help but feel that they botched it.

The add ons that came with the update aren't necessarily bad per say, they just weren't the big solution to guilds working that was required. Proof of their failing is the price of guild hall content versus the price of accessories and other vices-- on average, these things sell for far less than do accessories and other costume related promotions.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 15:46

#11

Usevnsevnsixfivfor

Hey Fehzor, I learned this GREAT tip from somebody across the street. You want to hear it?

Don't be in a guild.

Shocking, isn't it. Why are you complaining about extra content that doesn't affect gameplay if you avoid it. It's like if Cautery Sword went to 5*, would there be a need to not avoid it?

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 16:01

#12

Momofuku

I am confused by what you are trying to say. Is this just a discussion for discussion sake/boredom, or a serious suggestion to change something about the Guild system?

- As just a topic of discussion, guilds are a completely optional part of the game. Just like making friends. There is virtually nothing stopping you from obtaining everything you want in the game as long as you are willing to grind or pay for it. There's nothing in the game to force you to join a guild or to accept friend requests--you do so out of choice. I went through most of the game guildless. Several veterans still are.

Your last two examples confuse me too--you are not required to buy a Snarbolax statue or any furnishings to maintain the guild. If anything, guild upkeeps were recently lowered in cost drastically, making it a lot easier to maintain a functioning guild. You are then free to host guild trivias and prizes and lead shadow lair expeditions as you please. But as far as I know, whether you decide to buy furnishings or host guild events are entirely up to you, and the two aren't related at all.

The same logic would be applied to accessories: Should I buy Divine Valkyrie Wings -OR- buy and fully level up a Blitz Needle for killing Vanaduke? The answer is always "it depends what you value more."

- As a serious suggestion to change the Guild system, nothing will probably change. Even the most obvious, unanimously agreed upon changes proposed are highly unlikely to be implemented. OOO has a particular vision for the game, and are unlikely to be swayed from it. The only true form of protest is by lack of participation, and it's only when the numbers fall that they will take notice.

But to complain and still play is still a victory for OOO.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 17:13

#13

Skepticraven

@Momofuku

Is this just a discussion for discussion sake/boredom, or a serious suggestion to change something about the Guild system?

The OP is more addicted to making threads than tweeter. Just reread how the TL;DR has almost nothing to do with guild halls.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 18:48

#14

Fehzor

Whats wrong with the threads that I make exactly?

@Momofuku

It is just a discussion. All I'm saying is that the guild hall update didn't come through because it didn't expand on the guild system very much at all. Instead, it could even be argued that it does precisely the opposite- rather than bringing people toghether to work on something, it tears them apart when every guild master ever wants a guildhall and no one wants to pay.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 18:58

#15

Njthug

I leave my heart open but it stays right here empty for days <69

@Fehzor --- Not really a lot of guilds have created nice guild halls, and it did bring some guilds closer. I guess you are going off past experiences being in other guilds. Like most games you will have a few up-to-par guilds and then a lot of meh guilds. The only thing that kills Sk guild wise is that sadly most guilds don't live that long due to lack of leadership or organization. The guild hall update wasn't perfect, but they made a lot of changes so most guilds can afford it if they choose to, and if they don't they can still hold trivia or do other silly things.

Tue, 02/18/2014 - 19:05

#16

Bitsbee

Meh. Guilds don't really appeal to me, especially the Guild Hall, but the people I've met when I was in one were great.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 13:25

#17

Ardent-Light

What's the real point to this thread?

The guild hall update wasn't terrible. It is beautiful, and is for visual appeal. It is like a house type of thing. It wasn't game changing so I dont know why you are complaining. Getting "carried" by veterans isn't pathetic when you have a steady one bar right? Even if it IS pathetic, they are being nice. Let them do that. Also most guilds have their GM paying for all expenses, or have a simple 1-2k fee per week. The guild all update is also a GREAT money generator for the game. It was extremely smart to do. Since accessories and furniture (Expansions too I guess) are the only thing keeping this game alive. (money-wise) Having Krogmo in a guild hall or any merchant really, makes for a faster transit than in Haven. Being in a guild hall is good for meetings and is way better for not having your chat spammed in Haven. It is good for assembling teams in Lockdown, and good for guild pvp training, because you can't bring a whole guild to the EoS training halls. Severages ideas were genius but I don't want OOO wasting time on this instead of the Arcade redux, radians, or gunner update.
Everyone knows radiants are an issue, and OOO must have a plan for them. These radiant threads should be banned or something. Really ticking me off.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 16:28

#18

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

I LOVE decorating GH and had a big one at Warriors of Legends (go see it, 100% french guild, you'll be surprise) but Fehzor nailed it on the head.

There is NO PURPOSE to having a Guild Hall. Don't get me wrong... It's pretty with those flowers next to snarbolax and having a bench to sit in front of it but IT'S SOOOO GOD **** USELESS. It also cost like a freaking million cr to get 1 big statue... (counting mats) What is the real purpose to that? OOO needed a cr sink at that time... so yeah they botched it.

+1 Fehzor

Don't get me wrong... I love GH but Fehzor IS right. GH ARE useless. The only good point about being in a guild is guild chat... and the dump that you call storage unit.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:17

#19

Njthug

We will keep runing till 2moro with our lips lock bby plz dnt go

Guild Halls are as useful as driving a Ferrari in bumper to bumper traffic if you have the cash wish to spend it you will do so. If your guild mates like nice things they will help out simple as that.

Why do players invest in accessories they aren't at all useful they won't help you become a better player.....same goes for Uv's I mean lets be honest if you are a good player you shouldn't need uv's.

Wed, 02/19/2014 - 17:52

#20

Shamanalah

my 2 cents

@ Nj

Accessories can be seem by anyone I ran by on any run/Haven.

GH has to be visited by people to be enjoyed by other... See how useles they are? Only few people check GH out... and having the GH Warriors of Legends made me realise that 90-99% of ppl who check GH are noobs who don't even know how it work or friends who you want to show your GH to.

Then never go back there... lol they are really useless even though I spent 10m cr on it... Accessories are more flashy than a bunkered down GH

Edit: Go check WoL GH before saying anything about my opinion on GH. I love them and WoL GH can certainly prove it (after couple months being away made it stall though)

But I can see how useless they are. Nobody in WoL actually enjoy the GH. I'm the only brain-dead idiot that used to manage it. And more than 200 people came and go (french community based). Yes some ppl enjoy it, but it's just a phase you like GH for a month or 6 then the GH get as big as the Guild can produce so it stalls.

Edit 2: And now, after all this GH managing. When I see a GH I immediatly tag a price number on how hard your wallet got hit by it... Then again, you don't have this problem considering you are a GM and can spawn infinite ce. Or buy ce with money then get the money back at the end of the month...

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I think the guildhall update was terrible, also radiants are an issue