Spiral Knights - The Cradle Codex

The Cradle Codex

36 replies [Last post]

Thu, 03/06/2014 - 23:47

Luigi-The-Silly

This is an attempt at collecting and Displaying all of the known lore, within the SK universe.

KNOWN PLANETS:

1: Isora: Home world of the Knights, after what is know as the Morai Wars the plant the knights are driven to near extinction, and the planet is failing due to a faltering power supply. As a last ditch effort the surviving Knights manned, supplied, and launched the Skylark and possibly other starships to search the galaxy for a replacement power supply for Isora.

Due to the existence of a planetary power source, it is safe to assume that Isora is either a fully artificial planet sized space station or a heavily modified rocky planet, modified to the point of being unable to stabilize its-self without an artificial system.

2: Cradle: A giant mechanical "space station" made up of large chunks of varying terrains onto a massive, complex clockwork superstructure that is in a state of constant shift and reorganization. Cradle appears to have a massive energy source at its center that the Knights believe will help save their planet.

The terrains may or may not be from a single planet. Terrains include Mountains, Steppe, Plains, Forests, Castles, Cities, and other artificial structures, including what appear to be maintenance catwalks. There is a extremely low amount of liquid water on Cradle meaning there needs to be some form of artificial watering system to maintain the plant life present on its many layers. There are, also, a massive lighting system to produce the the Sunlight like lighting when certain "terrain plates" are beneath others. The planet's core houses some form of massive power source, but is enclosed by a relatively small sealed structure that is currently impassable. All lifeforms may or may not be indigenous

MAJOR BEINGS:

I: Sentient Beings:

1: Knights: An advanced race from the planet Isora. May be organic, inorganic, or a melding of the two. Knights are a relatively short and round species with a dark semi-translucent "skin" as apparent by the slight change in color to be closer to of the Knights "personal color" most likely due to the luminescence of the Knights eyes. The knights eyes are pupil-less "organs" set inside the Knights head. The color of the eyes can be chosen by the Knight itself. The Knights don't have any outwardly apparent orifices and their method of nourishment is currently unknown, there appears to be a lack of food dispensaries (markets, cafes, restaurants, etc.) they may find sustenance utilizing "Mist Energy" and its solidified version "Crystal Energy" which is used to power the armor and all of its systems including Stealth Mechanisms, Personal Force-field Generators, and generating both Plasma and Solid Shell Ammunition for their firearms, meaning their power supply may be the break down of the physical matter directly into energy, or by converting said energy into solid matter for sustenance.

2: Strangers: A species of tall, calm, and reserved beings who cover themselves from head to foot is flowing robes, all strangers also cover their face with either decorative masks or large hats scarves and goggles. Due to this their biology is mostly an unknown. Most Strangers are very docile and don't venture far from the City of Haven on the surface of Cradle, with the exception of an individual known as Basil who is the only known Stranger to venture into the depths of the planet.

3: Gremlins: A highly intelligent and mostly aggressive bipedal Rodent-like species. Roughly the size of the Knights and are covered in a reddish or brownish fur, and live in large numbers beneath the surface of Cradle. They are extremely mechanically intelligent as they can be seen dissembling collecting and reassembling many parts of the planets clockworks and building their own machines such as gun puppies. They may or may not be the original creators of the Cradle but they are known to repair the systems of the clockworks themselves. they are a Monastic governmental system following a single king (Currently: King Tinkinzar) and seem to have a class based society where higher class Gremlins live and work closer to the King. Their King is only extremely rarely seen by only the highest class of gremlin known as the Crimson Order who consist of 9 highly respected and feared Gremlins. There are also some peaceful gremlins treated as outcasts by the majority of gremlin culture, some have moved to Haven while the majority of these "outcasts" colonized a small area of the clockworks for their own.

4: Fiends: Fiends are the collective name for a group of creatures that seemingly metamorphose rapidly into different shapes utilizing an unknown energy source. These transformations don't seem to be a conscious choice made by the individual itself, but is a state forced upon it by the higher ranking individuals nearby. They mostly appear as a round horned creatures of varying hues and heights, that have a complicated and tiered social structure where the higher tiers have immense control over the lower tiers. They are known to shift individuals and objects through some form of portal. It is currently unknown as to how this is accomplished they appear to have a higher grasp of certain unknown forces, not understood at this time. They tend congregate their groups within what appear to be the ruins of a large city, weather or not they are the original inhabitants of this city are unknown.

5: Owlites (Extinct): Not much is known about this avian species, there is a large library that once was an academy for these folk. Owlites were known for their grasp of magical events. They are expected to have gone extinct with the Kat species meaning they are more than likely from the same planet. there is some evidence to connect the Owlites to the current state of the Kats.

6: Kats (Extinct): Another species whose history is mostly unknown, their spirits can be seen throughout the clockworks in varying shapes and sizes. while most are seem unintelligent and extremely aggressive there are some who have retained more knowledge of living as to be able to communicate, these Kat Spirits reside in a collective in an abandoned hotel found within the Clockworks. Of the few Kat Spirits that can communicate, most have not or can not speak about their race and what happened to them. This is a major focus for our studies as there are reports of Knight Spirits showing up within the clockworks.

7: Almirian (Extinct): A species similar to the Kats whom no living individual is found. Though, from their still mobile corpses they seem to have been a tall long armed species with a cylindrical skull, 3 fingers on each and and no nasal passage. These corpses are assumed to be Almirian due to the numbers that reside in the known Almirian structures. They appear to have reached the a medieval level of technology before their extinction. Beyond this very little is known about this species.

8: Jelly Cubes: These organisms appear as highly viscous semi-solid fluids in the shape of a cube sometimes with solid structures within their body mass that they use as weapons. Their intelligence level is currently unknown as we have found communication difficult as we only made understandable contact with a single individual. The evidence for their intelligence is broad, such as the Jelly Palace, their attempts at camouflage, along with a ruling entity. The Jellies palace would be very difficult to be crafted by the Jellies themselves and is assumed to be Almirian make as the construction tends to favor bipedalism and solid bodies and seems to have a similar styling to other known Almirian structures. Their attempts at camouflaging are rarely successful, if they even are attempts at camouflage. They do appear to rarely have hair, mustaches, and carry pipes though these features do not appear on any known species of Cradle yet discovered, this may an individual choice by the individual jelly itself. Jellies may also account for the numerous "blocks" throughout the clockworks, as some appear identical to their surrounding blocks until struck at that time they become ambulatory and act as any other of their species. It may be that as they age they may "dry" causing their bodies to solidify more over time eventually becoming completely solid. The Jellies have a specimen called a Royal Jelly, this immensely large creature, seems to be a primary source for reproduction for their species and appears to be at a higher level of intelligence than other examples of the species, possible being a hive-minded being.

MINOR BEINGS:

1: Snipes: Snipes are a species of bird that resides mostly in the Stranger settlement of Haven. They are usually small, plump with pastel colored feathers. Their method of flight is akin to that of the humming bird, but is unique due to the placement of its wings at a lower portion of their body allowing it for extended periods of hovering flight but reducing its horizontal top speed. They have stubby orange beaks, most likely used to peck at the hard packed ground found throughout Haven looking for their prey. They appear to have a commensal relationship with the strangers as it appears that only the Snipe benefit practically from their relationship. They are very timid, avoiding most life forms that are not Strangers or other Snipes, though few have been known to become fond over some knights and following them all over the place.

2: Wolvers: Wolvers are a squat burrowing species of carnivorous canine. They are covered in a medium length gray or brown fur, and can grow to fairly large sizes, about the size of a knight, though there have been rumors of some members growing to sizes many times larger than most. Their primary prey is unknown at this time, but it is most likely the members of the Bunny species. They are a pack creature following an alpha member who appear to the largest and physically strongest of the of the pack members. Wolvers are known for their mobility, often dashing around and quickly burrowing temporary tunnels at alarming speeds. they communicate the situation to other pack member through the use of a myriad systems of barks and howls. It has been found that the Wolver species is susceptible to Rabies though they aren't as mentally affected as most other species just seeming to be an unaffected carrier, more research is needed.

3: Bunnies: These creature are small, fur covered carnivores that only exist in small pockets within the clockworks. They are covered in a thick fur hiding most of their bodies are are not visible. They travel in large packs and attack prey by swarming to over whelm it, they are known to burrow in the ground to await prey.

4: Lisks: This genus of reptilian creatures are relatively small animals, with fused-lid, separately mobile, stereoscopic eyes and an advanced environmental camouflage ability allowing them to blend into their environments near seamlessly, thought maintaining the disguise seems to require the Lisk to maintain a mostly passive stance lest they break their disguise. Lisks have shown two methods for catching their prey, though individual species only have one of these methods. The first is a long sticky tongue used to capture prey and draw it into their mouths, the other is by producing a set of chemicals inside their bodies that they mix in their mouths this mixing creates a highly volatile, viscous, and variable which the then spit at their prey, this is used to hold, kill, and pre-digest their prey. The chemical mixtures produced come in a wide variety based upon the species producing it, from extreme auto igniting temperatures, to bacteria infested slurries, to surprisingly effective endothermic reactions. These chemicals are short lived and break down into vapor and water within in a small time frame.

5: Wings: A family consisting of hymenopterian arthropods with 2 narrow body segments (the cephalothorax and the abdomen), 2 pairs of wings, and 2 antennae. They have never been seen landing or nesting so how this is done is still up for debate within the Knight's Entomological Order as only the small less aggressive breed seem to only have a pair of vestigial limbs on their abdomen. These creatures vary greatly in appearance and size, some being quite small and sybiotic with other creatures while others with wings spans the size of the average Knight's height. some have wing spots while other have none, some appear to have 2 compound eyes while the larger varieties have a single fused compound eye. There seems to be a correlation between size and aggressiveness of the species. It is also hypothesized the dust on their wings may have some medicinal purposes, but more testing is required. There are currently 2 known genera of Wings, the Greaver and the Silkwing.

6: Scarabs: A small carrion eating beetle with a distinct appearance and a limited ability to fly. These insect have adapted an outward appearance of bones, most likely to dissuade predators. they have a set of large mandibles on their head for manipulating their food and is also used in self-defense. These insects are highly territorial, and will swarm any trespassers to force them away from their presumably subterranean hives.

7: Tortodrones: Possible the strangest being on Haven. The Tortodrone are an exceptionally large robotic creature with a long migratory pattern, why they migrate is currently unknown as their appears to be no practical need to do so. These beings are very passive and solitary by nature but are quite formidable when provoked, but otherwise they appear to aimlessly wander the clockworks. Current information from Gremlin scientist informs that these being were not created by the Gremlins, but seem to have a specific purpose, while the Strangers seem to know of them and refuse to elaborate on them. Links between the Tortodrones and Strangers are being investigated.

(Edited with feed back, currently writing up some faction stuff atm)

Fri, 03/07/2014 - 23:27

Luigi-The-Silly

reserved for "page 2" to

reserved for "page 2" to break up the wall-o-text some

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 00:40

Mayaura

I really, really like this.

You are obviously filling out the lore by making some imaginative inferences, which are great; however, you might want to use terminology that is consistent with the Wiki, such as "Chromalisk" rather than just "lisk" and other terms like "wings".

Embedded links to the relevant wiki pages would aslo be great.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 06:42

Luigi-The-Silly

@Mawashimono

Im not trying to fill out the lore as such, just making observations based on seen biology and behavior, using knowledge of animals in the real world that many were based off of, and if/when more lore is released ill update per the new information. or if there is a good arguement for why im wrong, you know, like armchair scientisting XD

but in the end this is a "overthinking for fun and flavor" thing atm, not trying to act as fact. As for Wiki-Consistent Terminology, the wiki is useing a classification system that wouldnt be used in a scientific journal. like Chromalisk, is just a single member of a Genus of animals like the salimander, Tundralisk and Virulisk, so as to not have to list each individually (maybe later when i got the broad strokes down and can think of interesting ways of describing them) i chose to give them a not yet identified Genus name of Lisk, kinda like...Lisk is like Canine, while Kleptolisk is like Doberman.

OH! I need to change some words now that you got me thinkin about it, these are technically species, these are Genera and Families (Species>Genus>Family>Order>etc...) because the Term Lisk fits more into the Genus and not the species, while Wing is more of a Family, with the humbug and silkwing being in the same genus and Greavers being in another.

I dont really feel a link to a specific wiki page would be all that helpful, as there is a link to the main page at the top of this page, and this information is still only hypothetical and mostly for fun, and not meant to be used for actual information.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 07:15

Jackichain

You say the Almirian are tall

You say the Almirian are tall long armed beings.
Please look up Almirian Crusader. They were a species who resembled Knights very much.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 10:17

Bamzalot

I have to agree with Mawashimono

I love it when threads related to Lore or attempts at linking information together are made. It's the story of this game that is always keeping me so addicted and caught in it all times. I just have to know more, and I'm willing to wait to find out.

Most of this does seem about accurate. However, like what Jackichan said, Almirians were most likely very similar to us Knights only in a medieval kind of age. In one of the graveyard missions, we can find the spirit of a fallen Almirian. If someone were to equip a set of Almirian Crusader armor and a Crest of Almire, they would look almost identical.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 11:53

Eta-Carinae

Jelly Race

Is it possible to imagine jellies constructing the Royal Jelly Palace using themselves as building material? They do come in many shapes, sizes, and composition. Also, there is at least one notably sapient jelly, Imposticlaus.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 15:25

Luigi-The-Silly

@Bamzalot, @Jackichain Ah,

@Bamzalot, @Jackichain

Ah, thats what i thought but how many almirian crusaders are found inside the firestorm citadel? 0. the most common entity found within a place where almirian would gather (a royal castle of sorts) are Slag Walkers (zombies, once living). and then there are the almirian royal guard who are also slag walkers. its my reasoning to say that zombies were once almirians.

but that makes me think... maybe the skylark wasnt the first time the Knights came to Cradle (or where ever Alimire came from) as Almirian Crusaders and Phantoms both highly resemble Knights to a disturbing degree, and seeing as a Race of beings capable of building an massive pan-galactic space craft after a global war are capable of doing so before the war.

@Eta-Carinae I DIDNT THINK ABOUT IMPOSTOCLAUS! 0o0

things will be updated when i get home from work.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 15:35

Zzira

What of all of this is

What of all of this is selfmade lore and what is real information about the game?
50:50, i guess?

Nice lore story, but you cant compare a game like SK with real existing animals.
I mean...Sega-->Hedehog-->running faster then sonic speed
Maybe the hedgehogs in my garden can do this too, when i feed them whit atomic garbadge?

Not very real, neighter is SK.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 16:57

Luigi-The-Silly

@Zzira

Well Zzira, im only using the real world to fill in gaps in the lore.

but as for ratios, some it varies depending on the lore. Devilites are more of a 30:70 real:inferred while knights are 70:30 ish.
it all depends on how much lore i can find about them, the rest is filled out by trying to make observation based on visible biology and behaviors.

also for sonic, fun-fact, the reason he cant swim was due to the developers believing that hedgehogs couldnt swim IRL, they were wrong though. and when/if more lore comes out then like all good science ill have to update my findings =D

but its like the Wolvers, i known they are burrowers due to how the can move around while in combat,also they dont appear to have many grinding teeth found in Herbivores and omnivores, they have very prominant sharp teeth, so it is currently safe to assume they are carnivores, but if OOO decide to show more of the mouths, or actually tell us what they eat, ill have to readjust to that. and i assume that, the bunnies may be a primary source of nourishment as they dont have insectivor-like teeth (so scarabs may be out) and there are few other animals that a creature could like the wolvers could hunt. maybe jellies. or maybe seeing as Cradle has artificial systems to provide waters and light to its varying depths it is possible that they dont have a prey at all and are just fed artificially but by the clockworks system itself.

granted food is wierd on Cradle... the only food actually seen to exist on the planet is Sprite food... which is made from crystal minerals and whatever random matierial lying about. though there are references to food in material descriptions though what thier source it is unknown.

IE: warp dust, supossedly taste good in dip. and there is mention that jellies may be edible.

most lore is only small tidbits, with large gaps missing from it. this is my just making guesses at the gaps, and seeing if others wanna join in as more view points tend to make the hypothesis more accurate.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 17:35

#10

Mayaura

food

We have plates of cookies and mugs of hot chocolate.

And if that's all we eat, our "mana" so to speak, well, I can think of worse things to live on.

I love what you are doing. Please keep it up. It helps me so much with my fan-fics.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 18:34

#11

Zzira

Mayby you should contac the

Mayby you should contact the player who filled the site on The wiki about the Knights.
For Wiki knights are vertebrates, have to eat, to breath and whatsoever.

As source they take the decription of some materials.
Matierals cant smell like wood, when a knight have no nose.
In one decription (Rocky Core) the game speak from "More than a few teeth have been lost by knights attempting to get at the gooey interior."
So Knights must have theets to, you will find more of this in other desciptions.

Also, many materials ARE Food.
Forbidden Fruits here, Spice (blazed Pepper) there, Cursed drinks, and Hailstone is for chilling drinks.
When the Knights dont eat this, who then?
In the end, they really are "normal" humaniods.
And wy not? The whole game is in adorable comicstyle, fluffy things everywhere.
The game show us no mouth, breakfasts and theets, this dos not mean they dont exist for lore.

When filled missing parts, then go ahead and fill it whit pure lore, and forget the real stuff.
Otherwise you cant count the rules of biology, chemistry, physiks.....you will break....(^_^)
(Those Helicopterbirds break more than tree)

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 18:40

#12

Eta-Carinae

Slags=/=Almirians?

We've always assumed the Slags were revivified Almirian corpses because FSC is filled with them. However, I don't believe the lore ever explicitly states this. One could make the argument that Slags were part of the unholy army Vanaduke brought back. I always had doubts about Zombies being the remains of Isorans because they aren't the same shape. With the introduction of Crusaders, I began to doubt they were Almirians, either.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 19:22

#13

Luigi-The-Silly

@Mawashimonoah but those

@Mawashimono

ah but those "Foods" explode, they are bombs that look like food. food is an odd thing in the SK universe, there are reference to it... but no actuall evidence that people eat at all... like look around our world there are more spaces dedicated to food than anything else, so logically the knights and strangers should have things. meck energy and heat take up the most "spaces" in haven.

imo item descriptions, as Knights are newcomers and not familiar with this planet are most likely at least partially informed by strangers. but again, there isnt much hard eveidence either way... it reminds me of the Transformers series, as they could understand and make references that they themselve have no use for (hair, food, warmth etc) but again there are alot of gaps in the SK lore, i like it =D.

and side note the Wiki's "Knights" entry is what inspired me to start this. as i makes about the same leap based off of little info. but knights are weird creatures to begin with. and very little is known about them, heck the Knights are not a species, technically, they are the Spiral Order a Faction from Isora (possibly the winners of the war they had) same goes for Almirians they were just a faction of their species (The Kingdom of Almire) and the name is only used as they are the only known example of their species.

@Zzira, well fruit is just the seeds of certain plants, not neccesarrily edible by the knights, and cursed drinks are not knight food. fun fact, the Devilites are the only group to actually have hard lore evidence for eating. and like above could be information gathered from the Strangers (a different species) but again who knows about them either.

@Eta-Carinae
yeah, the almirian armor has been worn by what appear to be knights and slags, my current hypothosis is that since the Isorans are most likely not a single faction (the spiral order) there were other ships besides the skylark sent out, possibly even before the war, its quite possible one of those ships crashed into the kingdom of almire, and when they couldnt get home they were absorbed into the local populace. it would explain how the Knight spirits (Phantoms) have been here since day 1, they could have been an earlier exploratory expidition. maybe there are other planets with Knight settlements besides those who traveled on the skylark...

also the skylark crashed onto cradle... when are we gonna go to the wreckage?
hmm, writing somestuff up now. (edit: changed some info based on feedback, THANKS!)

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 20:20

#14

Eta-Carinae

Devilites

I would probably change "Fiends" to "Devilites", since they are the only subgroup that displays noticeable intelligence. In my opinion, their transformations would not be considered metamorphosis and don't involve unknown energy sources. Consider that Devilites are organized in a form of corporate hierarchy and that transformations are triggered by employee morale. A Pit Boss can create Overtimers by giving a motivational speech or Yesmen through praise. Also, Yesmen can turn into Overtimers because you murdered the greatest boss they've ever known, one that recognized their worth and achievements. Killing a Pit Boss also creates a job opening for a management position, resulting in the automatic promotion of a random Devilite.

You could probably make an argument that Trojans are another intelligent fiend race, though I'm still unsure what they are. The lore seems to suggest that the Trojans of the Spiral Order are related to, if not the same as, the Trojans from the clockworks. That means Trojans may not be Isoran, but rather a separate allied race. Isoran Wardens may resemble Trojans, but they still lack their characteristic physique.

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 20:38

#15

Luigi-The-Silly

@Eta-Carinae

@Eta-Carinae well, i use metamorphose, as their biology drastically changed (text book metamorphosis) when they get promoted to pit boss, (and all that change and extra matter has to come from somewhere, so unknown energy...should probably be called means though) also gorgos are devilites who are lazy, and its not stated if this is a demotion from management or a just a result of their lazy behavior.

and i chose Fiend instead of devilite, as gorgos are not called devilites themselves though they are all members of the same species.

as for trojans, im working on something for them, the jist being they appear to be animated statues. (another possibility link that knights have been to Cradle before, why are there statues of spiral wardens about?) so i think i would say they are some form of construct (like a Lumber but with magic instead of tech) as they turn back into stone when "killed" and have been seen in some missions to be statues before "waking" to attack may put them under a sub category of technologies for the seemingly magic creations.

though there is some difference between the bodies of trojans and the bodies of spiral wardens... i got more work to do

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 22:01

#16

Eta-Carinae

Gorgos=/=Devilites

I disagree about gorgos being of the same species as devilites. It would be like saying chimpanzees are members of homo sapiens. We are both classified as primates, but humans they are not. Wings are classified separately in your list, yet they too are fiends. Gorgos probably have more in common with "minor beings", lacking any obvious sapient traits much less social structure. Now that I think about it, your classification system of major and minor beings is kind of misleading. Owlites have less of a presence than anything on your "minor beings" list. The division is clearly between "races" (sapient entities) and "monsters" (feral entities).

Sat, 03/08/2014 - 22:57

#17

Luigi-The-Silly

@Eta-Carinae

according to the Gluttonous Gorgo's update info, gorgos are what the standard devilites turn into when they are lazy and gluttonous. not specified how, though they are considered part of the Fiend's Corporate Chain

wings are classified as fiends for damage modifiers not as an animal classification on the wiki my list is an animal classification. im attempting to draw parallels between the body structure of gorgos, devilites and pit bosses (factoring in the metamorphosis) which i believe to be the same species, and Silkwings, Humbugs, and Greavers which fit more into a Genus or Family.

also i chose Major/Minor Beings as i had the Sci-fi trope of Higher/Lower Species classification(sapient non-sapient would be better, ill change those) but felt this was misleading as some group i speak about werent all singular species, but members of genus and families.

also Races is used to differentiate between differing genetics of a single species the hierarchy is like this (broad to narrow)

Life> Kingdom> Phyllium> Class> Order> Family> Genus> Species

the subcategories of species has no official classification, but those subclassification, when found in humans, are called races so long as a contextual history has been established. and example would be when a human has high amounts of certain melanins in their skin they are considered a different race, but if they have high amounts of certain melanins in their hair we just call then redheads and not a new race. long story short(ish) race is an interpersonal construction not a biological classification.

i got a lot more work to polish on my next bit, ill try and get it up before i go to bed.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 00:47

#18

Hexzyle

Maybe you should contact the player who filled the site on The wiki about the Knights.

Yo, that'd be me. This thread just reminded me that I have to get around to making some sort of encyclopedia (hopefully not on the forums, that really cuts down the ability for a neat, collaborative work) filled with semi-true lore.

I believe there was someone around here already making up some sort of almost fan-fiction dictionary of lore (was it Lord Necromancer?), but I'd rather take a more pseudo-scientific approach where everything slides into place with eachother and has a very logical explanation.

At any rate, your approach on covering the lore is very much alike mine and if you want to assist me in writing a (hopefully illustrated) codex, probably through Dropbox or Google Drive, depending on what works better.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 01:59

#19

Eta-Carinae

Gorgos=Devilites

I'll be damned, gorgos really are devilites. Since every creature classified under fiend is a devilite, wouldn't a more accurate moniker be "devilite"? Turning into a gorgo is punishment for laziness, so I assume they are the lowest rung in the corporate ladder. Regarding the transformation process, I kind of imagine it happening the same way King Koopa created Goombas in the Super Mario Bros. movie.

Also, I wasn't really using race in the scientific context, but in a more vernacular. In video games (and fantasy in general), races are real, as opposed to cultural constructs in real life. I wouldn't go too far applying the scientific paradigm to video game creatures. The origin of species in Spiral Knights is more akin to creationism than the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis. Classification is inherently unambiguous because each kind was designed that way by the developers.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 03:14

#20

Luigi-The-Silly

@Eta i've been using Devilite

@Eta i've been using Devilite for short hand, as devilites are just a single enitity, along with blarfuls and firebranders, which works for an enemy classification, as the others are just elementally charged devilites mechanics wise, they have their won names lore wise. it be like calling all canines poodles, seems odd to me.

@Hexzyle Hey, yeah that little blurb is what got me doing this. used to do it for other stuff (Transformer, Pokemon, AT) and ive had my own theory that the knights are more of a post biological sigularity part bio part robotic cyborg type peoples. kinda got me onto this.

as for helping out, thanks but ill have to decline, im just doing this to defrag my brain when i get frustrated, not the best of creative work partners. but ill keep playing with this so feel free to ask stuff. and ill answer if able.

also off topic-ish... has anyone else noticed, that there are only 4 houses in haven with doors? not like the lab and other places you can enter, but like homes... where people live. there isnt anyway to get into OR OUT OF the auction house counter (without climbing through the window) butthere is an awful lot of buildings with no doors... creepy

also the door to the Lab is just short of letting Strangers walk through comfortably, they gotta duck... man knights can be so thoughtless to the people who took them in...

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 05:18

#21

Hexzyle

That's a pity, it would have been helpful to have a Xenologist helping out. The only thing I'm really good at is understanding Isoran Technology.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/76294#comment-665881

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 14:44

#22

Eta-Carinae

Devilite=Species and Subgroup

Release Notes 2013-05-01 utilizes the term devilite and gorgo both within the context of the creature and its family. From the developer standpoint, the prototypical creature also defines the family.

I think you are getting hung up on the fact that the lore explicitly groups gorgos and devilites in the same family. If they are the same, then what do we call them? Major "fiends" are characterized by traits exclusive to devilites (i.e. transformations and social structure); before gorgos, the race would simply be "devilite". The lore tells us gorgos are modified devilites, therefore, the moniker is IMO still accurate. The fact that you needed to broaden the name to be inclusive indicates that you don't view the relationship that way.

Suppose Dobermans are devilites and cropped Dobermans are gorgos. You are suggesting that the term canine be applied to include both, when Doberman was fine to begin with.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 16:16

#23

Luigi-The-Silly

@Hexzyle oh i am in no way a

@Hexzyle
oh i am in no way a xenobiologist. just a guy with access to wikipedia, and some faint recollections from high school biology class. most of my post public school education was in engineering.

@Eta
thats kinda my point.

Devilites are doberman, while blarfuls are poodles, and firebranders are saint bernards. with their gorgo counter parts. so calling them all devilites is confusing from a classification stand point

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 23:15

#24

Eta-Carinae

I'm going to make one last attempt to make my case. Suppose devilites are reptiles and gorgos are mammals. My suggestion is to classify the group as reptiles. In terms of phylogenetics, this is not incorrect due to shared ancestry. However, class Reptilia is traditionally paraphyletic and exclusive of both mammals and birds. From a common knowledge perspective, these groups are separate and distinct. This is not unlike the relationship between devilites and gorgos. If not for the lore, we would never consider that one was derived from the other. To refer to gorgos as devilites is accurate, but counterintuitive.

Calling devilites fiends introduces problems of its own. What you propose is not unlike classifying reptiles as tetrapods, an unnecessarily broad category. The implication is that Trojans and wings are also included, despite described characteristics being uniquely devilite. It is both inaccurate and confusing.

There is always the third option of making devilites a paraphyletic class by excluding gorgos. Due to their apparent lack of intelligence, gorgos could be classified as minor beings. Their previous lives as devilites would be mentioned in the description. In spite of what the lore tells us, common knowledge dictates that gorgos and devilites are different creatures. Even the wiki treats them as separate.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 00:42

#25

Luigi-The-Silly

again, mechincs of the game

again, mechincs of the game and lore seperations here. also reptile and mammal, are VASTLY different, they are in totally different branchs of life, where the difference between gorgos and devilites had more resemblance to the different between larval and adult stages, by definition if one creature changes its physical shape in its life time, no matter how drastic, they are still the same species but at differing stages of life. fiends just have a manual/conscious control of these metamorphosis (similar to certain earth species thought not as direct)

but i think the problem your having understanding my reasoning is the misunderstanding of what I call Fiends, and what the Game-Mechanics-Wiki calls fiends. no wings are not fiend in my classification, neither are trojans, Wings are thier own seperate branch of of classification, and trojans are most likely contructs.

and as for removing gorgos because they aren't as intelligent, makes no biological sense, as a frog is the same species as a tadpole whose brain is not yet fully developed.

again.

the Wiki is about game mechanics, and classifies Fiends as "Creatures weak to piercing coded damage, and resistant to shadow coded damage"

my Codex is about biology. are they seperate creatures for game purposes? yes very. what im saying is they have, by the lore of the game, not died, and we're during that specimens lifetime changed shape. its internal biology, by all reasoning and evidence we have at this time, must allow for this meaning that gorgos and devilites are the same species.

and again the reason o chose Fiends over Devilites as a name is because Devilite is a Variety of the Species of imp-looking creature. they are not the species unto themselves. i could have just as easily names thier species Devilfolk, Demora, Daimon, or Frank. but i wanted to use more familiar words better known to the community at large. but if you want i can change it to devilfolk.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 00:46

#26

Hexzyle

Even the wiki treats them as separate.

Wiki = Ingame Functions & Mechanics Categorization ≠ Ingame Physics & Lore Categorization

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 19:27

#27

Eta-Carinae

I guess we agree to disagree

I still feel as though you don't quite understand my arguments, which really are based on biology. Mammals and reptiles may appear vastly different, but phylogenetics places mammals firmly on the reptile branch. The reason why they are segregated is due to taxonomic tradition. Please research this before you dismiss it completely. Personally, I dislike fiend because it is a term already defined as a shadow monster with pierce weakness and shadow resistance. Since the discussion over nomenclature proved nonproductive, I will drop this line of debate and accept whatever you decide, be it fiend, devilfolk, or just plain devil.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 20:50

#28

Eta-Carinae

@Hexzyle

I disagree. Game mechanics are not unlike physical laws, thus a legitimate part of the world we are documenting. See the anime "Log Horizon" as an example of this. If we are to create a scientific tome, we can't very well disregard something so fundamental.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 21:25

#29

Hexzyle

Game mechanics are not unlike physical laws, but nor are they identical. The wiki's purpose is not to document the world, but to document the game. If two monsters are functionally and visually different, or irrelevant game-mechanics wise (even though they might be related biologically), they will be on different pages regardless of their species.

Example. Greavers and Silkwings are on two separate pages. All slimes are on separate pages. Dreadnaughts and Zombies are on separate pages. But Wolvers and Alpha Wolvers are on the same page, because they are visually similar and have identical attack patterns. As are Pit Bosses with Devilites because they promote-demote into them. The latter would be on the same page even if they were two completely different species, because they are relavent to the devilite article.

The purpose of the wiki is to give the player an informed idea on when they appear in game and how they behave. Anything not relevant to gameplay should not be included unless it is mentioned by a developer, or is undoubtedly true. Because of this, the wiki is severely lacking on lore of the world, so please do not use the categorization system of it for grounds in these sorts of debates.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 23:10

#30

Eta-Carinae

You are right and you are wrong

Yes, the codex seeks to be more than just a game guide; it wants to create a narrative from which we can make sense of the Spiral Knights universe. What you don't understand is that describing the game mechanics is inescapable. Read the section on Knights and tell me it doesn't mention game mechanics. It even invents some facts and speculations to fill knowledge gaps. Are shields force field generators, or is that just a game mechanic to allow 360 degree protection? If Knights lack orifices, is it because of biology or that the game model has no need for one? The chronicler clearly chose to take this path, so why not go all the way? Why did elevator cost and mist energy suddenly disappear? Are Trojans, grievers, and devilites related to each other, or is damage type and resistance the only thing they have in common? What is the nature of the Creator (i.e. Nick) and His pantheon? Why limit your imagination by ignoring things that exist at the very foundation?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 20:25

#31

Hexzyle

What you don't understand is that describing the game mechanics is inescapable

Why then, if the Clockworks is so deadly, is that not reflected in game then? If the Clockworks is supposed to be some living machine attempting to do away with the player, why do we never see this happening in game? Why is it that the Recon Knights are so amazing, but they get us to do all the work for them? There's a huge disconnect between parts of the lore and actual game mechanics that have to be there. This is why you cannot depend solely on what you see ingame (and an extension of which, the wiki, which is a documentation of what happens in the game) for answers: you must make assumptions based on things that happen in the real world.

We can explain much of the Game Mechanics through the Lore. But to say that they are identical would be a fools mistake. Some of the Game Mechanics from a Lore perspective do NOT make sense, but because this is an MMO, there have to be inconsistancies or this game would not be fun. As I said in another thread:

Recon Rangers
Another fundamental to most MMOs that can't be explained with any amount of science is that the player is supposed to be the hero.

Read the section on Knights and tell me it doesn't mention game mechanics,/em>

The Knights page does not mention game mechanics, it is merely an assembly of descriptions for items. It does count as a Lore page, so "Anything not relevant to gameplay should not be included unless it is mentioned by a developer, or is undoubtedly true." does apply to the page, and thus I heavily encourage you to change anything you believe to be blatant speculation. (The only thing I am aware of speculating when writing that page is that all material descriptions are written from the perspective of the Isorans) The primary reason the Knight article was written was to give an easy-to-link page for all the people who create the "are we robots?" threads.

Are shields force field generators, or is that just a game mechanic to allow 360 degree protection?

The thing is, if something is purely a game mechanic, it is called by a technical name, A.K.A, omnidirectional defence. If it already has a real-life counterpart (by real life I'm talking in the hollywood world we all know) then it's no longer primarily a game mechanic, but also an actual object with background and lore, A.K.A Personal Force Field Generator. Although the latter isn't explicitly stated, we all know that's what it is, by its shape and how it works, it's a trope that's been used a ridiculous amount in both movies and games alike.

If Knights lack orifices, is it because of biology or that the game model has no need for one?

The Knight does have orifices, models exist for the Knight's scalp hair, facial expressions, and mouth. They were removed from the public eye after a particular incident. There are plenty of cases where something does not exist ingame but it exists in the lore or in the universe. If everything were purely game mechanics, why bother explaining the background of the Kats if it doesn't appear in game?

Why did elevator cost and mist energy suddenly disappear?

Maybe if you questioned what was implemented at the same time as the elevator cost removal, you might find the answer.

The developers love to imply, but not to reveal.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 00:46

#32

Eta-Carinae

@Hexzyle

I make no argument that lore and gameplay are identical, only that Luigi appears to take things at face value or to their logical extremes. I merely suggest that he do more of it because he came up with some interesting results. Unless I got the wrong impression, this is not a wiki project.

When I mentioned the Knights section, I was referring to Luigi's codex, not the wiki.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 09:35

#33

Hexzyle

okayface.jpg

Well. I totally feel like I was in a "hello? I'm over here, stop talking to the wall" moment.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 14:32

#34

Eta-Carinae

@Hexzyle

I apologize. I got confused about what you were responding to and went off on a tangent. You originally gave a reason for why gorgos are separate from devilites in the wiki as game vs lore. I only really suggested it because Luigi was concerned with not confusing his readers. I agree that it might not be a good enough reason to split them, but we do have real world examples of this.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 14:45

#35

Malkalack

@ Mawashimono

You have made it painfully clear you don't mind lore inaccuracy. So I find it somewhat ironic that you now say Luigi-the-Silly has been too imaginative whence dealing with holes in plot.

Sat, 03/15/2014 - 15:27

#36

Cinoa

@Hexzyle

Scalp hair? Particular incident? Must... Hear... Moarrrrr
No jk, that would be spoilers. But I find things like in game models to be cool, especially when they aren't in game. Also: inventory icons... That one item...

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