Spiral Knights - Gunner General Weapon Questions

Gunner General Weapon Questions

21 replies [Last post]

Sun, 04/06/2014 - 03:49

Dymlus

I've come back to the game after over a year of not playing, and much as changed.

Currently, I have the following for weaponry of note:
Piercing: Mega Magnus (4 Star Gun w/Heat Level 7)
Elemental: Storm Driver (5 Star Gun w/Heat Level 4)
Shadow: Shadow Driver (4 Star Gun w/Heat Level 8)

My plan is to continually purchase the 30 day weapon slot so I can constantly run with three different guns (granting me the ability to shoot every enemy with a weapon they are weak toward)

My Ideal load-out would be focused around raw DPS:
Piercing: Blitz Needle (This seems to be hands down the best piercing damage gun in the game.)
Elemental: Argent Peacemaker or Storm Driver
Shadow: Setenza or Umbra Driver

Does any of this seem off or wrong in any way? Many people seem to love Valiance for it's versatility and normal damage; I can't see why so many people love it besides it's knock-back effect.

Any/All comments are appreciated.

Sun, 04/06/2014 - 05:57

Bopp

good, but two tips

Your plan is fine. It will work. But here are a couple of tips.

First, most levels don't really require all three damage types. For example, if you're in a gremlin level, then you'll see a lot of gremlins and constructs, and maybe occasionally a silkwing, but rarely other fiends and beasts. So you don't really need piercing. So use three weapon slots if you like, but use just two if you want to save money.

Second, alchemers put out better DPS than Argent/Sentenza, IF you know how to use the alchemer ricochets. See for example Fradow's alchemer switching argument and Lancer Knightz full clip data.

Sun, 04/06/2014 - 07:03

Dymlus

Thanks a million Bopp, glad

Thanks a million Bopp, glad to hear some supportive comments. I've done a good amount of research.

Anyone have any love for the Polaris? or should I disregard it?

Sun, 04/06/2014 - 08:55

Bopp

very useful, but easy to overuse

Polaris is a very powerful weapon, because of the knock back and shock. For example, a skilled Polaris user can enter a room full of devilites and completely reconfigure how they are laid out --- group them together, or cut a path through them --- so that teammates can kill them efficiently and safely. The bullets travel so slowly that you can actually race behind them and attack monsters as the bullets arrive. Polaris' damage isn't bad, but it's usually not as good as alchemers' damage. I regard it principally as a crowd-control weapon.

Polaris gets a lot of hate on the forums because so many players just spam it all over the place. This kind of behavior can really disrupt teammates. The same thing goes for Shivermist Buster, Nitronome, etc.

If I were you, I'd get Nova Driver or Storm Driver, and then get Polaris later, and then use Polaris very judiciously.

Sun, 04/06/2014 - 17:28

Fehzor

Optimal loadout for gunners:

Nameless + Swiftstrike

Polaris
Supernova

Switch shoot your way to victory. Devilites? Switch shoot. Beasts? YOU BETCHA. Angry team mates? YOLO.

-------------

Realistically though- alchemers will generally provide you with a much better weapon, but supernova and polaris are far far better spammed against large mobs that maintain constant aggro and get up in your face with firey hatred and brimstone. Like the tortodrone. Instead of trying to blitz them, I found it much more practical to dodge constantly while using supernova. This combination allowed me to maximize my damage while minimizing my damage intake, and lead to several flawless victories

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 04:35

Dymlus

More follow up questions

Why not use Alchemers?

As I mentioned in the OP, I already have a Storm Driver and Shadow Driver (Trying to get it there to an Umbra driver) and have had good success with them thus far. I've clocked the VAST majority of my hours in game using Alchemers and feel as though I'm competent with their ability to bounce shot/ricochet to deal some nice AoE damage if aimed correctly on multiple clumped foes, the Shock status is also quite glorious, since Alchemers provide no knock-back.

I'm currently wearing both Sunset Duster and Sunset Stetson, neither of which are level 10; I also have yet to get my hands on Swiftstrike Buckler.

Since I'm lacking the ASI, Bonus Handgun Damage, and CTR at this point, are Alchemers still the BIS?

My main reason for asking is I have recently got my hands on and leveled an Antigua to level 5, and am wondering which weapon to craft it into, Silversix into Argent Peacemaker or Blackhawk into Sentenza. If these weapons have the potential to be better in the now, even if they aren't best in the long run that is something I'm curious about. Even if they are straight up worse for a gunner build, I may still use them as side arms for a sword load-out in the future.

I feel it's important to note that I have yet to master gun swapping, or shield swapping to increase the amount of shots fired (I've practiced with little success, and am very inconsistent at it) I mostly just fire one shot, wait for my character to lower his gun, then fire again as to never have to reload.

Is learning weapon swapping mandatory if I want to keep gun-slinging? Am I doing it wrong?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 04:58

Sandwich-Potato

best loadout evah

chaos and chaos and swifty

hail driver
sudu

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 14:14

Bopp

response

Dymlus, you ask good questions. Sorry if I mis-read your earlier posts.

Even without offensive abilities (CTR, ASI, etc.) alchemers output the best damage. CTR and ASI affect all weapons pretty equally, in terms of the amount of speed-up you get.

The alchemer charge gets a big improvement at 5 stars. In other words, the 4-star charge is significantly worse than what I'm used to. But the Argent/Sentenza charge is even worse. It takes so long to execute, that it is often quite dangerous. If you have time to deliver such a charge, then maybe you should be using something like Blitz Needle instead. There are few situations in which Argent/Sentenza charges are your best idea.

Switch-shooting is not mandatory. You can beat the game without it. But switch-shooters do put out impressive damage, and it's pleasurable to learn this kind of skill, so give it a try. Switch-shooting can actually be done with a variety of weapons. It is easier to do with slow weapons, and that's why people talk about it with alchemers. I doubt that I could do it with Argent/Sentenza. Those guns are pretty much "click as fast as possible, all the time". Dull. To be clear, the Lancer Knightz data I linked do not include any switch-shooting; alchemers beat Argent/Sentenza based on ricochets alone.

The only advantages I can think of for Argent/Sentenza are that they have longer range and they are easier for novices. Definitely Sentenza is easier than Umbra for a novice gunner dealing with fast gremlins.

In the end, I encourage players to try a wide variety of equipment, because the different weapons create different play styles that make the game interesting. You already get the alchemer idea, so try Argent or Sentenza. But don't be surprised if you end up favoring the alchemers for both power and fun.

Edit: If you want a sidearm gun for a sworder lifestyle, then alchemers are still a great choice. Why do people recommend Argent/Sentenza as sidearms for sworders? Because they assume that the sworder doesn't want to take the time to learn how to use a better gun properly. It's all about ease of use. Polaris is also extremely easy.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 11:49

Sandwich-Potato

Bopp, would the Alchemers thus be a viable weapon to upgrade to 5*, assuming you have sufficient CTR and ASI? Would the charge make up for the lack of damage?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 13:10

Bopp

lack of damage?

Sorry, I don't understand. Lack of damage compared to what?

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 15:48

#10

Sandwich-Potato

The level 10 4* version. You said the 4* charge is significantly worse than the 5* one.

Mon, 04/07/2014 - 17:40

#11

Newbyboy

Damage

Isn't the 5* at level 1 comparably weaker to the alchemer at 4* level 10, even if the charge is good, it isn't viable for one to carry a level 1 alchemer prisma/storm to fsc...

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 07:56

#12

Bopp

Solanastrum, I didn't understand that your question was about heating. I don't know the answer, because I haven't had a 4-star gun for a long time. There have been threads on data about the effect of heating --- either in Arsenal or Wiki Editors --- but I'm having trouble finding them right now.

My general advice is to wait until you have enough Radiants to heat the item to heat level 5, or even heat level 8. This might be a case where 5 is good enough.

Tue, 04/08/2014 - 11:04

#13

Fehzor

Honestly with the difference charge time reduction makes, I'd rather have a 4* using a weaker charge than a 5* with a slower charge.

Wed, 04/09/2014 - 03:56

#14

Dymlus

Piercing Damage Guns Under-performing (or it's my bad aim)

I've been leveling up my Needle Shot (about to craft it into a Strike Needle, still need a couple more elite orbs)

I've been having a rough time trying to kill Wolvers and Silkwings (and to a lesser extent Devilites) using this spray and pray style weapon, since you remain stationary while firing. The charge shot seems like it's much more powerful and can really lay waste to these enemies, but often times they jump around so often (or hide behind bigger enemies in the case of Silkwings) you completely miss, leaving yourself vulnerable.

Should I try and upgrade my Mega Magnus into a Callahan for these enemies, should I cave and just use a sword from the Flourish series to do my piercing damage, or is there something I'm missing?

As it stands currently, I'm having better success using an Alchemer that deals normal damage (Shadow Alchemer for Wolvers, and Shock Alchmer for the fiends) to these enemies, I am landing more shots and am far less vulnerable to counterattacks.

It kind of bums me out that even though piercing guns deal bonus damage to them, it seems far faster and easier to use an alchemer or a normal damage dealing gun for these enemies.

Wed, 04/09/2014 - 04:26

#15

Newbyboy

@dymlus

Honestly, it would be better to just use shadowtech alchemer for enemies weak to piercing, autoguns are really hard to use on wolvers/fiends. Magnus can be usable but it also holds you in place when shooting. The only good thing autogun is for is vanaduke only imo. I have more fun using alchemers and their charge shots then autoguns.

Wed, 04/09/2014 - 04:46

#16

Sandwich-Potato

The only good thing autogun is for is vanaduke only imo.

Are you 4real?

The Blitz can one shot a Construct.

Wed, 04/09/2014 - 05:27

#17

Bopp

wait for that one?

I agree that Blitz Needle is overpowered but sometimes hard to use. Callahan is fun but underpowered. I really want to recommend Callahan, but I can't in good conscience recommend it over Blitz. Maybe just use alchemers until the gunner update, and then re-evaluate the piercing guns.

A piercing sword would also be a fine idea. Frankly, Dark Briar Barrage might be an even better idea. It chews through beasts. It's also a fairly safe way to handle troublesome fiends, including gorgos. On the other hand, using DBB against greavers requires you to predict the spawn and lay out repeated DBBs very quickly. If you aren't paying attention, or you don't have much CTR, then piercing swords are easier than DBB against greavers.

Sat, 04/19/2014 - 22:58

#18

Dymlus

Gunner Update?

Any ETA on said Gunner Update?

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 01:14

#19

Krakob

Nope. It was initially November and then January but now it's being released whenever it's ready.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 04:52

#20

Dymlus

If it was initially pushed

If it was initially pushed back starting as of November, one can hope it will be prioritized soon. Thank you.

Sun, 04/20/2014 - 11:46

#21

Skepticraven

↓

While it is true that heating is a significant aspect, there are plenty of other changes to weapons.
I only have a complete heating curve for the proto sword, which starts at 20 damage and increases to 30 (before any modifiers are applied).

That being said, I've recently crafted a magma driver.
The status changed significantly (perhaps even a bug). D24 gremlins got about 14 fire damage (didnt actually record the correct value) with the 4* while they take somewhere on the order of 70 with the 5* version. I noticed this because I was swapping all elemental drivers and had to use status to kill the gremlins that spawned.
Additionally the charge shot creates 2x more bonus bullets [4* splits into 2, 5* splits into 4].

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Gunner General Weapon Questions