Spiral Knights - Let's fix what is wrong with Compounds levels...

Let's fix what is wrong with Compounds levels...

11 replies [Last post]

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 12:41

Sir-Onox

Well yeah, I guess that almost 90% people hate Compounds levels because the reward is too low and you can sometimes run a compound level without find a single treasure box (checked) and the challenge is really high for it (that is not a bad thing, but you know that you LIKE a good reward when the challenge is good too)

If we compare Graveyards with Compounds, seems that Compounds is the REALLY punishment level (Dust Zombies drop a lot of crowns and Phantoms aren't hard to deal if you know what you do). In the other side, Compounds have a great design merging two or three classes of monsters in a single level with these cute and deadly mini-monsters. Some rooms have rockets and puzzles related with Wisps and Shankles. The only problem with this is the crown drop ratio, the challenge doesnt correspond with the low crowns that we can get in a run.

If we agree with this or find other ways for people enjoy compounds without change the difficulty, maybe we can convince OOO to change the crown ratio and increase it (or just adding more treasure boxes at the end of the elevator).
We convinced OOO to increase the Radiants ratio, why not just a few more crowns in compounds?

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 13:30

Thunder-The-Bright

gods ain't gonna help you, son.

suggestion subforum. it exists use it. move topic please.
and this topic has been brought up many times, so search for other topics while you're at it.
yes, common opinion is to increase loot drops by either adding boxes or making minis drop something.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:30

Skepticraven

↓

Compounds rank 6/15 in crown payouts.
They actually give more crowns than you think.

That being said, there is some variation on which stratums I took the data.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:37

Draycos

The more difficult a level is, the more rewarding it should be. Unfortunately, Compounds aren't really that rewarding..

I'd like to see their payout boosted somehow, myself.

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:38

Sir-Onox

@Thunder-The-Bright

@Thunder-The-Bright Done

@Skepticraven Give me some evidences comparing a clockwork tunnel level with a compound level in payout on same depth

Fri, 05/02/2014 - 14:47

Skepticraven

↓

@Sir-Onox

My data mining thread.
You are most likely going to find a good comparison in a T3 area, since thats where most of my arcade data is. Be sure to do a separate analysis on if there is a danger area or not, as well as subtract out the energy cost of opening gates. All that information is available.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 08:37

Crimson-Xe

Maybe if they made more of

Maybe if they made more of the minis drop gold? Usually I only see like 2-3 of a group drop anything (a group being when they all spawn in a single clump).

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 16:01

Fehzor

Their crown payouts are fine as per Skeptic's data. The thing that really kills them is their lack of treasure boxes and their relative difficulty compared to other relevant levels like Clockwork Tunnels-- adding several treasure boxes in place of the crowns found at the end of the level would be a huge improvement.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 16:31

Skepticraven

↓

Or have a compound-themed danger room equivalent.

Sat, 05/03/2014 - 18:30

Fehzor

That would be pretty sweet too! Though even then CT has danger rooms AND boxes.... adding both would be the best, but either would be something.

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 15:25

#10

Skepticraven

↓

Currently (as of this post) there are 47 danger rooms recorded of 80 clockwork tunnel themed depths. This leaves their average boxes without a danger room the equivalent of 10.55/depth. (And 22.55 with a danger room.) I don't think it needs more boxes and a danger room. One of them would bring up the averages. Adding both would make them unbalanced, in my opinion.

There are a couple flaws in common knowledge I'd also like to point out...
Graveyards are the only depth to possibly never have any treasure boxes, with around a 50% chance that the boxes are behind an energy gate.
Compounds have a minimum of 2, with a 0% chance of boxes behind an energy gate.
Graveyards have approximately a 50% increase in crown payout compared to all the following depth types: Wolver Dents, Deconstruction Zones, Candlestick Keeps, Concrete Jungles, Lichenous Lairs, Scarlet Fortresses, Jigsaw Valleys, Devilish Drudgeries, Dark Cities, Clockwork Tunnels (without DRs), and Compounds. Perhaps the list is shorter for depths that are greater (Aurora Isles, Clockwork Tunnels with DRs, Arenas, and Treasure Vaults).

That being said, there are always going to be favorable and unfavorable depths. If we buff one of the lowest, should one of the highest be nerfed? Arenas have approximately 3x the crown payout AND box count of all other depths (save CTs with danger rooms). Compounds aren't all that bad. I dont wait for them to change unless I'm in radiant territory (most other depths I would get 2-5x more chances for radiants).

Sun, 05/04/2014 - 17:17

#11

Fehzor

Eh, I think compounds should pay out around the same as clockwork tunnels if not a little more overall, just by way of the fact that CT and Compounds are very similar in all other ways, with compounds being a bit harder. Why not add treasure to the end such that compounds also gives out the same 10 boxes + 12 from a danger room?

My thought on payout is that each level would optimally have some sort of unique item associated with it. These items or materials or whatever they were would be rewarded fairly regularly on the specified level, and would have to be in constant demand for the game to function properly. Actually, I think I already wrote about this line of thought here- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/96796

Where the idea was that the devs made materials to fill the gaps between level payouts.

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Let's fix what is wrong with Compounds levels...