Spiral Knights - so are they really not going to let up? but rather strangle this game to death

so are they really not going to let up? but rather strangle this game to death

7 replies [Last post]

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 00:53

Viconaut

(edit under post in a nutshell - this is not directed at/against DEVS)
man they have been doing it for soo long. this game was, and still has the potential to be great. its solid and holds up on its own and (before they chopped it all out) had some of the best, most unique multiplayer/co op mechanics i have seen in an mmo in a long while. ie fast paced, arcade style jump in co op with item share and heart res leading to some of the best, most entertaining situations/ experiences a group knights could share/triumph over. it generated so much comradery and accomplishment that THAT and the combat alone made the game worth playing with or without friends (since you could make so many new game buddies after suffering through double arenas with a few bars between the few)

now its just seemingly down hill? like they plan on riding it into the dirt while wringing every last dollar they can before its smashed. promo after promo after promo, rather than just giving back ANYTHING, a small chunk of content to offset the cash grabs ffs. if they would even just take a couple steps back into the past they would get so much more out of this money wise (if thats all that matters to them) not to mention the game could go well beyond expectations, in the game as a whole as well as monetary value. theyre losing so many players (BIG PLAYERS)and big numbers) and its because they are just choking the game out with cash grabs, the hardest to swallow was the removal of item sharing and heart res. just so that players are more likely to die/ end up in the clockworks without sparks and end up buying them mid dungeon, not counting out of dungeon or the CE to get them (all money for them) just a means to promote real cash currency :( ) to lose a gameplay mechanic just to possibly/slightly increase demand for cash currency is so wrong. the game lost a lot when that left. it took away a good piece of the core co op mechanics and removed aspects of the gameplay that were unique to those mechanics, the game, not to mention the mmo genre overall.

i dont know what else to say since it really doesn't matter, since anyone that cares either has no say/no one to say it to that can make a difference. otherwise all thats left in sk are mostly new waves of players that dont know what they are missing/ havn't realized yet or the people on the receiving end dont care one way or another.

its just a huge bummer to see such a great gem, much loved by many, being treated so poorly and used to death for all the wrong reasons. its also funny knowing that its probably the worst way to make money off of something while such a better options exists for both sides. as being a gem (to say the least), they could put very little in and get a WHOLE LOT in return money wise, not only from the regulars/loyal players but the new waves that flock to unique games that shine. with very little effort to keep playerbase happy/ coming back, or not bailing completely at the least they could get more than what they want/expect and at the same time spare the games life in the process so the people who are in it as a labor of love (not just gamer/players)ie nick) dont have to look away every time they see where the game is currently or where it might be headed.

i guess im done ranting/being sad at a game that used to be a bit more for some friends and i. but if you have any similar feelings feel free to be annoyed/jaded with me whenever, heh.

and for some similar sentiments about some sadly/badly removed parts of the game among other cries for help about the greed slowly killing this game and turning into another generic ftp. check out some older posts and feel free to comment. these are just my opinions and some of my past guildies so if you dont feel the same way, that is great and welcome, just post your opinion in response and leave any flame/ fire elsewhere. this is a post of mourning (or it will be if things keep up) im just not in the mood for a troll fight :p
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/100806
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/100418

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~EDIT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----THIS PART IS OPTIONAL unless you are a first time reader and tend to skip comments (originally in the comments further below, this is just an attempt to clarify) or possibly? you are one who has troubles reading words in their intended order or just tend to jump to conclusions about things before you see them as a whole, or just dont think a lot about what you are reading/saying before you post, in which case not only will this not help, but you didn't get here anyway. also if after reading below (if needed) you want to know a bit more about where im coming from and for the most part, why? please check out the two links under op. also worth a look if ANY of this resonates

after you read all of the lines above, or every other line as many seem to do it seems in search of kindling and nothing else, i figure i should put this response under the OP since there seemed to be misunderstandings

---first of all, i didn't use the word "devloper" once in my post. not even my two other relevant/linked posts from long ago, were devs smeared in ANY negative way. when i say 'they' i dont necessarily mean DEVS and ONLY the developers. whoevers tying hands, overruling whats actually good for the game is who im talking about and thats why i didn't point fingers specifically because who knows whats going on, im sure some of the devs are just as sad to have to push out a twisted version of their love as we are. (if it might be news, DEVS rarely get to play god with their games)

@Tenkii, i saw that post very shortly after posting this, but it changes nothing. though it was a good chunk of this particular post, Content isn't what irks me and many others so much as the very unsubtle, game changing cash grabs that breaks my heart and as stated above took enough (good) away that me and others actually enjoy the game less, have FUN (big part of games) less, experience unique things less (as in ONLY in SK), want to play less. changing co op mechanics to promote minor cash grab mechs is just painful to see and when its done for pennies on the dollar i cant say i agree with it being "because someone knows best" at least not in this case, you dont even have to believe me the results are plain. also, on the other note of content, if that did happen to be my biggest issue (not that its nothing) a no show with an apology is a no show. and before that brand new apology/promo update, when was the last major? how many all together? and how long has SK been out of the gate. and no shit promos are easier to put out than full fledged content... but a game cant, and this one WONT survive by adding more and more side junk/ minor things to play with in the place of the actual game we came for initially.. these are just thoughts, but seriously? i doubt many people started playing and invested so much time just to be able to keep playing 3d Gaia Online (aka just a forum with avatar to dress/monetize)

again, all of this is just what i know me and frankly many others feel. its not a matter of blame, no ones pointing fingers, at least not from my circle. its a matter of, what? sadness? labor of love loss, something great and unique getting tainted giving it that familiar hit of whats all in the things we came here to avoid. this is no more than an attempt to tell others i/we know also (at the very least) like this same game as we do, enough to spend time with it/ with friends in it and telling them we are bummed, not surprisingly about some things. its not that OMG SK IS DEAD AND GONE AND F"D bail. its just there is a LOT of people who think some wrong turns have been made, enough to where when they were made a few more times, people started losing faith and actually bailing, and remaining worry that it could turn into something fatal if it remains.

i love how people on such high horses know so much more than people that are stating OPINIONS, that they still use high school lvl name calling even after they have all points completely fly over their heads. i guess they're so awesome, its just not demeaning to them at all.

i dont really know what else to say other than, i suppose i expected better, compare and think before you speak i guess? (ie maybe double check what you read? smell a few misunderstandings). no one is trying to start a fight or derail threads. (at least i hope not) only in genuine concern, again as a labor of love did we post this to begin with, aimed at other players that enjoy the game alot. not only to share concern, help generate a response (because people do listen to their players, we can effect the 'they') and also to learn more and pool knowledge, or hell even a possible change back to things that weren't broken but fixed (there are some that arent just petty) but fuck, if i thought THAT was shooting for the stars before i posted, after seeing whats left in the community, via some of those responses... aiming for dirt seems as risky.

Again if you have something nonconstructive, negative or just feel like flaming, by all means, go for it since no one can stop you, you have nothing better to do or whatever the case may be. i just dont understand unfiltered, lacking in thought, hostile responses to random, possibly wannabe friends with common interests.
though if you dig it, i hope you have as much fun as me and mine used to here

Sun, 06/08/2014 - 03:11

Hollafamer

I feel you bro.

I am with you man. I made the same exact post a few hours before you. Good to see you have the same feelings. It drives me batty that you and I and many others can see what going wrong and how to fix it but the developers, are so clueless. They must be looking at these numbers and going its not even worth saving. Tis a shame when all it needed was some support and it would have lasted and grew so much larger. What a waste of such a unique game.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 10:54

Spiruy

The developers are not

The developers are not clueless, in fact they are the only ones who can see the whole picture and we must trust them.
The only thing strangling the game to death is the General Discussion community.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 11:06

Sciger

Who are you to judge the developers and their work when you don't know the first thing about game development?

Updates are only pushed back if they absolutely must be, usually due to some very good reason. You wouldn't want a new content with a potentially game-breaking bug, would you? Would you be at all pleased to have new content if it say, removed all the weapons from your account so you have to start over? They hold back updates so stuff like this DOESN'T happen and cause problems with the players and more work for the staff.

I don't recall very many massively game-breaking bugs except for a few energy exploits and, of course, the notorious prismatic bolted vee flood. Considering Spiral Knights has been going for over 3 years now, I'd say the developers have done extremely well caring for the game by not allowing even worse bugs to occur. If 'major' bugs come up, typically a patch comes up either the same day or within a few days, depending on how long it takes to fix the bug.

Patience is a virtue, my fellow Spiral Knights players. The developers aren't holding back updates just to spite the community. They probably have a darn good reason to keep working on it to produce a quality product with very few minor bugs and no game-compromising bugs.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 12:56

Tenkii

gamers.

@OP:
I'm going to just pretend you didn't see this post:

When we were planning this promo, there was supposed to be new content released at the same time (OMG SPOILERS!). For various reasons I won't go into, it was delayed. I forgot to edit that bit out of the announcement when the content was delayed. Without the new content, it isn't funny, and I understand why you're upset. I apologize.

It's been said many times by levelheaded and experienced people (...as in, actual or former game developers) here that promo content is easier to schedule and/or develop, and doesn't necessarily take time away from actual permanent content and features, which both...
a) Can take longer to develop
b) Have a volatile schedule where estimates don't always go as planned since you can run into bugs and other snags (see: Gunner update delays)

But since all we see are the successfully-timed ones (...promos and minor bugfixes), a naive person will just think they're only milking the game with promos. If they ever get to that point, they might as well fire their programmers and kiss bugfixes goodbye, because it'd mean the programmers are sitting there doing nothing all day. If they were as money-hungry and lazy as you people sometimes paint them out to be, they'd not just milk players, but cut off non-productive workers.

It stings both ways.

Mon, 06/09/2014 - 14:50

Ustrinaferalthorn

@Tenkii

The real enemy here is the lack of knowledge of how the game industry works inside a team and what each individual roles do. The kids here just see at as some sort of fancy magic like the way pets do when their food & water bowls magically refill. They'll whine to any and everyone to get what they want and they don't care who does it. They want it and they want it yesteryear. I've taken my time off to do a little research of my own so I'm not one of those people anymore, but a lot of people don't feel the need to. They just want to play. That's fine and all since we need players to keep the game going, but when you have a bunch of uninformed people running around the game, it generates some pockets of non-constructive negative criticism. If there's a video that goes into full detail as to what each and every member of a Dev team does that can convey it in terms for 10-year-olds to understand, I will gladly post it somewhere. This is getting ridiculous.

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 02:16

Viconaut

huh?

first of all, i didn't use the word "devloper" once in my post. not even my two other relevant/linked posts from long ago, were devs smeared in ANY negative way. when i say 'they' i dont necessarily mean DEVS and ONLY the developers. whoevers tying hands, overruling whats actually good for the game is who im talking about and thats why i didn't point fingers specifically because who knows whats going on, im sure some of the devs are just as sad to have to push out a twisted version of their love as we are. (if it might be news, DEVS rarely get to play god with their games)

Tue, 06/10/2014 - 07:01

Tenkii

@why I brought up promo speed and content:
promo after promo after promo, rather than just giving back ANYTHING, a small chunk of content to offset the cash grabs ffs. if they would even just take a couple steps back into the past they would get so much more out of this money wise (if thats all that matters to them) not to mention the game could go well beyond expectations, in the game as a whole as well as monetary value. theyre losing so many players (BIG PLAYERS)and big numbers) and its because they are just choking the game out with cash grabs,
^
Seems to imply that they're only working on promo content, which is a pretty wrong assumption to make. It's also one that other people bandwagon on pretty easily, so I like to stab that whenever possible.

And you're right - a no-show is a no-show, and that's valid (and in fact, I agree with this as well). Understanding the developer side doesn't excuse them for not delivering, but at the very least, I hope it shuts up invalid complaints like the above. If I look back at the updates, I see a lot of stuff being done to change the new player experience (and us older players see none of this);

the hardest to swallow was the removal of item sharing and heart res. just so that players are more likely to die/ end up in the clockworks without sparks and end up buying them mid dungeon, not counting out of dungeon or the CE to get them (all money for them) just a means to promote real cash currency :( ) to lose a gameplay mechanic just to possibly/slightly increase demand for cash currency is so wrong

- Heart Res: encouraged alt dragging, but aside from the abuse of that, it made better context back when it cost people energy to play at all. Let's just take a moment to reme- I mean, ignore the fact that gates don't cost anything to play now. Ok, continuing on.

I actually think that the new system encourages actual co-op play (as in playing near each other and working together to stay alive) with pet skills and all that, since (despite emergency rev - BUT LET'S IGNORE THAT) safety can be found in numbers.

Before, everyone would split up and solo (wow, such co-op, right?) everything, then sit there asking for an easy rev (since all it cost was health to revive) if they died. If people still try to play solo like that and complain about lack of co-op (and I still see this), they deserve it. Better players end up stacking sparks and can use them on worse players. I don't see what's wrong with the system itself - if people aren't helping each other, whose fault is that?

Sorry if I come off as spiky, but all of your complaints have been parroted here before.
All of them, and usually in less than half a screen's worth of text.

Search

so are they really not going to let up? but rather strangle this game to death