Spiral Knights - Bosses should have a health meter. Why don't bosses have a health meter? Or even our dungeon enemies, for that matter?

Bosses should have a health meter. Why don't bosses have a health meter? Or even our dungeon enemies, for that matter?

14 replies [Last post]

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 06:56

Renpartycat

Come on, Three Rings. Why won't you give bosses and enemies a health meter?

It's a simple and easy to make feature. It's not going to kill anyone, nor is it going to make you go bankrupt. I mean, it's JUST a health meter. It lets us know how much health our bosses and enemies have, and gives us a morale boost when we can see how weak our enemies are, letting us know when we have a great opportunity to strike.

I can't see why this hasn't been implemented into the game yet, nor can I see how this would be a bad idea. Does anyone dare to prove me wrong on this?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:02

Ambientfury

Another Reason why its good

Also, if you tried a different technique to fight a boss, and you died, you would wanna see if it was any use or there was no point of trying...
And I wouldn't really worry about other posts like this...

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:10

Renpartycat

Indeed

And let's not forget that there are tons of video games out there that have health meters for their bosses. Probably almost every video game in existence.

Even with our own health meter we still get incentives. When we're at full health, we know we're doing great. When we're at low health, we're given the incentive to be cautious.

It just makes no sense for a video game to not have health meters on their bosses. Some games are an exception, with the typical "Do this 3 or more times and you win" or "You need to do this before you can damage your enemy" sort of thing like the Legend of Zelda games. Not only those games but many other games out there that don't have health meters. Tell me, how many MMORPGs have you seen that don't have health meters on their bosses?

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:11

Negimasonic

same reason they use bars

same reason they use bars that don't really tell us anything about our equipment, its to make you figure it out on your own and whatnot.

I'm not against this, but they never bothered, at one point they even took out the showing damage numbers ability a long time ago (glad it was put back and quickly). They want this game to be as simplistic and easy to understand among different languages as possible. Actually, read it from Nick anyway.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/1837
I always assume everything that's hidden is an extension of the words he wrote there.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 07:48

Renpartycat

@Negimasonic

But if they gave us an option for turning numbers on and off, why not give us an option to turn Health Meters on and off?

Eh, it seems like they either didn't have any time or just rushed through it.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 08:01

Negimasonic

The only reason they gave us

The only reason they gave us the numbers back is because I believe the numbers were there from the beginning (I wouldn't know as I'm not that old of a player), so when they took them away and rage ensued, they figured a simple toggle would fix everyone's issues, new players would have to look for this option and old players won't cry about it anymore.

Also, they won't add many more toggles because they kill kittens
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/9397#comment-51667 (and yeah I know a new toggle was implemented for Lockdown but that's like the only new one they added since "allow full inspect")

oh and I just thought about it but they also probably don't show health meters cuz of the scaling that comes with party changes...everything must be a secret lol..

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 09:01

Vescrit

oh and I just thought about

oh and I just thought about it but they also probably don't show health meters cuz of the scaling that comes with party changes...everything must be a secret lol..

Thats kind of like Monster Hunter, but you're never sure how much damage you are dealing in that game.

I don't mind not having a health meter over enemies that much, usually I know how many hits will kill them when solo, although it would be nice when with others.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 11:32

Tanbon

I wouldn't mind there being

I wouldn't mind there being toggleable health bars, but I'm going to give my reasons why I would never personally use them.

So many enemies, especially in the arenas. Maybe not every enemy needs to show their health bar, only the ones you're aiming at, but with battles as busy as they can get I don't think I want something in the middle of my screen blocking my view. And it doesn't make sense to make them invisible when you're not actively hitting an enemy, unlike with the damage numbers.

Information is power and all that, but I wonder if visible health bars inadvertently encourage some players to fight as if the battles are wars of attrition. This is just a guess, it doesn't apply to everyone.

The last one worries me the most, but for all I know I could be completely wrong about health bars changing player behaviour like this.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 11:37

Madadder

i like this monster hunter

i like this monster hunter style of never knowing how much health is left

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 12:48

Effrul

Ill-conceived

Not having health bars for bosses in particular forces players to actually pay attention to the boss' behaviour as a gauge of how much punishment still needs meting out, which I greatly prefer to a straight readout; it encourages you to learn boss patterns whilst simultaneously keeping you on your toes. Compare "JK's freaking out, he must be nearly dead - oh hey, yeah, his health bar's almost empty, I can relax," to "JK's freaking out, he must be nearly dead, but I can't be sure how close, I cannot let my guard down."

The vast majority of classic - by which I mean 16-bit era and earlier - action games didn't use boss health bars, and with good reason; it keeps the tension ratcheted right up throughout the fight. I'm not sure why you'd want health bars for SK enemies; your only arguments in the original post are "players have them" and "every other MMO has them." What would they actually add?

Health bars for basic monsters are just pointless. They're visual clutter on what can already be a very hectic playfield, and the way that mob HP scales with party size makes the rubric fairly meaningless anyway. The extant damage numbers give a much more useful indication of how much pain you're distributing, because that value is set, even when enemy HP isn't; it's a helpful way to compare different weapons in real terms, rather than how big a chunk they're knocking off a variable health bar.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 12:59

#10

Lolreft

Me Gusta

I agree.
I want that excitement when im nearly done eating my boss's face off during a solo run.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 13:03

#11

Orangeo

Numbers should be in PVP at

Numbers should be in PVP at least O_O.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 13:06

#12

Effrul

Yes!

Now THAT is a sensible suggestion. I suppose there's a higher degree of variation in player resistances, because of mixed armour sets, as opposed to monsters, who all have set weaknesses - but it wouldn't hurt to give you a ballpark figure. You can, of course, mentally note what most players are wearing and adjust your weapon selection accordingly, but in a chaotic fight it could well be easier to note that, for example, your Piercing weapon damage readouts are all greyed and your Elemental numbers are all big and yellow.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 14:03

#13

Malhaku

Bosses, Yes. Normal Enemies, No.

I like the idea of health bars for bosses. I think it'd be cool if on a boss level, the bar for the boss pops up right above your own bar (Castlevania Stytle!)

I'd really like this for the Jelly King. Yes, he freaks out when he's at around 1/3 health, but it'd be nice to know if he's somewhat close to death (e.g. 4 person party, everyone drops... do I spend the extra energy to revive? Because for a 4 person party, 1/3 of the jk is still a lot.) Also it'd be cool seeing the bar slowly tick back up due to his regeneration. Add to the dramatic tension.

However, I wouldn't want floating health bars for all enemies...

My big reason is also the Jelly King. Can you imagine how cluttered the screen would get? Ooof, would not want to work around those.

So yeah, +1 for bosses, -1 for all enemies.

Wed, 10/12/2011 - 14:51

#14

Starlinvf

I think most of the balking

I think most of the balking at HUD elements is to keep it clean and simple. If you keep stacking, meters, bars, maps, timers, counters, icons, and knick nacks, the HUD becomes a complete mess. I like information feeds as much as most vet players, but there are a lot of HUD elements that aren't all that necessary.

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Bosses should have a health meter. Why don't bosses have a health meter? Or even our dungeon enemies, for that matter?