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Buff Callahan (+ Iron slug)

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Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 00:32
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni

So I finally got my hands on callahan after painful process of leveling mega magnus up, finding a recipe and gathering 800 energy.

I thought I would get a gun that packs a punch but makes the shooter vulnerable to attacks while shooting and punishing for missing your shot. What I got was a bliz needle that shoots only one bullet at a time with 50% more damage. Seriously. The damage is horrible. Hitting a slag for 90 damage in FSC is outrageous! It should be the GF/DA of guns, why does my 4* hunting blade have more damage per hit? (not to mention the attack speed -.-)

This gun is absolutely pathetic. It servers no purpose since stun is in most cases a bad thing to give to your opponent (when it wears off enemy will burst all the interrupted attack pattern damage)

I'm suggesting that it's damage is buffed to about 250-280 damage per shot to neutral targets. Make it force to be reckoned with, not a pathetic joke of a 5* gun

Am I doing something wrong? Anyone has any thoughts about this gun?

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 01:05
#1
Imagen de Traevelliath
Traevelliath
Dodge!

The only reason I carry it around is because you cannot dodge it (outside of PVP). Wolvers cant dodge it and Devilites cant dodge it. I would love more damage from it, but its effective when you need to shoot, shield, shoot, shield, repeat.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 01:08
#2
Imagen de Espeonage
Espeonage
I'm assuming yours isn't at

I'm assuming yours isn't at level 10 yet.

Additionally,

- The stun complements its use against Wolvers very nicely (though now it's not as necessary anymore)

- It can knock down enemies, allowing you to juggle menders and such.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 01:17
#3
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni
Or you can just grab a weapon

Or you can just grab a weapon that kills the enemy and bounces them around. Like a FF or BTB

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 01:23
#4
Imagen de Espeonage
Espeonage
On the other hand, those

On the other hand, those aren't guns, unless we're discussing balance between all 3 weapon types. If you were looking for gun damage rivaling the big-name swords, Blitz charge is still the answer.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 02:03
#5
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni
Bliz is more like FF or

Bliz is more like FF or BTB

Valiance > iron slug :/
It even has the knockback

So you think callahan is fine? Maybe I just dont know how to use it D:

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 04:07
#6
Imagen de Kalaina-Elderfall
Kalaina-Elderfall
I picked up a Callahan

I picked up a Callahan recently for Devilite use and I haven't been too impressed with it. I still need more practice with it, but I really think it could use more range. I tend to find myself using my Blitz anyway since it kills mobs of them faster and it's not like my shadow shield can survive six chairs and a stapler, so turtling them with the Callahan just doesn't work against large numbers, even with max ASI and max Damage bonuses.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 07:08
#7
Imagen de Shadowoctopus
Shadowoctopus
I've had Callahan for awhile,

I've had Callahan for awhile, I find it tends to work best with wolvers, or I'd use it in delicate areas in parties in FSC (Though it has a High undead UV+using one piece of Deadshot). Against a crowd of wolvers, it's alot safer to use a Callahan then it is to use a blitz which would do low damage as they teleport, though if it's a bad crowd I personally just switch to Umbra driver til they thin out enough to go back to Callahan..

Your Hunting blade does more damage because it's a sword. :P Maxed out with UVs or trinkets or armor, a Callahan will do about 150 on a slag, but if your after pure damage on slags, go with guntrinkets or deadshot and a Polaris.. heck, with just one piece of Deadshot and a Gigawatt pulsar you'll be doing more damage to Slags then a normal 5 star Polaris,or use a Nova driver. Other benefits being the gun will interrupt attack sequences on slags like when they try to breath fire, just shove a lead bullet down their throat and watch them hit the floor. This can be useful for you and teammates. It's a little tricky, but you can also shoot through barriers with the Callahan like the Argent peacemakers since the bullets explode the same way.

In lower tiers it works fine against devilites, but T3 darkcity I might use the blitz for spray and pray against those numbers.. but usually I bring the Blitz for T3 anyway.

Callahan also has it's uses against bomb gremlins(Or any gremlin really). You can stunlock them to prevent them from throwing bombs everywhere, in a party that works well to then have the random sword user finish the thing. Trojans either gun works well, Blitz kills them faster on a charge, while Callahan I almost never use the charge since the throwback is dangerous but can be useful if planned right.

Greavers wise I'd say go with the blitz, but I don't run into those that often. Greavers usually die in one or two shots from a Blitz, it takes a little more with a Callahan.

Other then that.. Callahan is generally better then Blitz at PVP. Or you could use a Sentenza.. but that's a little more useless outside of PVP.

Bosses wise..Snarbo can go either way depending on if you have someone with you or not (Solo Callahan, with others to ring the bell Blitz You'll kill Snarbo faster then most sword users), Royal Jelly Blitz, Twins No, and Vanaduke Blitz. Yes.. I've used Blitz on the Royal Jelly, it out DPS my Umbra Driver with it's charge shots. 0_o

And yes, Valiance is better then Iron Slug. I used to know a few Gun Bombers that only carry a Valiance, base damage a Valiance will do more damage then the Magnus series. It's a good sidearm if you only want to carry one gun. If I ever decided to go Bomber I might carry one of those just as a backup and switch gun.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 12:36
#8
Imagen de Dirigible
Dirigible
>:(

Of all the balance changes to gear, OOO hasn't given the magnus line a buff. Although the Magnus line of guns should hit lots of damage with the inability to move while shooting, it actually deals less damage than other guns, with a slower fire rate and the inability to move and shoot.

They needed a buff more than the Brandish series of swords IMO...

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 12:43
#9
Imagen de Batabii
Batabii
"Valiance > iron slug

"Valiance > iron slug :/"

pfffft valiance is one of the worst 5* guns. it sort of defeats the point of using a gun at all. It has no statuses and no super effective damage, and no unique properties.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 12:52
#10
Imagen de Bopp
Bopp
the Magnus line was improved in a recent update

"Of all the balance changes to gear, OOO hasn't given the magnus line a buff."

The Magnus line was improved in an update a couple of months ago. I believe that the entire change was: You can now move while reloading. This makes Callahan much more mobile than Blitz/Plague Needle. However, you might be right that the line deserves more improvement. And I certainly agree that the Brandishes didn't need an improvement.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 13:25
#11
Imagen de Bekjan
Bekjan
I think only 2 guns are worth

I think only 2 guns are worth crafting unless you do PvP. Polaris for puppies and Blitz for Vana. All other monsters can be taken care of with swords much faster.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 13:34
#12
Imagen de Dirigible
Dirigible
@Bopp

I think they made the recipe requirements of materials shorter too.

Still, a 5* gun hitting ~50 damage in T3 with no special effects and slow firing with only a 2 shot clip? Iron slug needs a buff...

I mean just look at the pulsar series of guns; they give shock status, have 3 shot clips, have EXPLODING BULLETS, and give significant knockback.

Compared to them, as well as other guns in general, the magnus line is kind of lame.

Sáb, 01/07/2012 - 13:45
#13
Imagen de Batabii
Batabii
I like callahan, it's pretty

I like callahan, it's pretty much the only gun for wolvers, and you'd be surprised how often the charge attack comes through in a pinch.

But bekjan DOES have a point...

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 08:30
#14
Imagen de Traevelliath
Traevelliath
Point...

Oh yes, the Magnus line is really underpowered. I just use it because things that can dodge, cannot dodge the magnus. I have even seen the Magnus Shot curve to catch up a Wolver.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 08:43
#15
Imagen de The-Rawrcake
The-Rawrcake
Uuni, I have a suggestion

Uuni, I have a suggestion that might really help

Try getting gun damage trinkets (even if you just get low ones to start out), heat it at 10, then look at the damage.

If you hit ultra / maximum damage (I wouldn't hit max as it would make damage UVs useless and a bit of ASI helps) with gunner gear (as damage is our best stat) then you will notice a much better gun.

I once compared my Nova with this guy's Storm. He, like a lot of people (I am assuming in this thread too), doesn't have gunner gear.

He got it, cause he thought status was shiny obviously. He had no gun dmg, I had maximum at the time. He shot it at something at some depth, it dealt 100 damage. I shot mine, and it dealt 160 damage (this was in like tier 2, so lowish damage numbers)

There is a big difference between no gunner gear < gunner gear. If anyone has a storm / nova in swords gear, at d28, my Nova deals 273 damage maxed out on a zombie if you want to compare damages.

If you are a swords then I'd just get a polaris and call it good as far as guns go - Callahan isn't necessary when you have BTB / FF as swords.

Anyway, my opinion: Callahan is the best gun. It hits dodgers, which is the big thing about it that only a few guns can do, but this one has great damage. It is 2 shot, slow, leaves you immobilized so it packs quite a bit of damage. On a dodger, you want to throw up the most possible damage before it dodges in one single bullet, so Callahan makes sense.

Blitz, on the other hand, will hit the wolver maybe 2 times before they burrow, and leave you extremely immobilized. Blitz is more made for killing giant, slow things instead of quick dodgey things like Callahan.

Also, it knocks gremlins down completely, making it useful for menders. Once they get in their bubble, switch to a fast firing gun to break it, then back to cally.

So if you are a gunner, once you have all the gunner gear you will like Callahan. Remember that damage bonus will benefit you more than ASI.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 08:51
#16
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni
Took me about a week to

Took me about a week to gather the energy to craft a 5* item so obviously I won't be getting any trinkets or trinket slots anytime soon. Also I possess only one 5* helmet and 2 5* armors so I doubt I'll be getting any of those soon. So basically you are suggesting that I need to buy energy to get anything out of this gun when there are guns like pulsar that takes nothing yet is incredibly effective hitting easily 150 to slags in it's 4* form, knocking enemies back and shocking them. Not to mention the huge AoE. Then I have this 5* gun with tiny AoE damage, rare stun and poor damage with less range and shorter clip and that i should spend ~10€ to make it worth noticing?

Uhhh... something wrong here or is it just me?

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 08:56
#17
Imagen de Kalaina-Elderfall
Kalaina-Elderfall
I find that my Callahan tends

I find that my Callahan tends to miss enemies, not because they dodge, but because it hits them and then deals no damage for some reason (happens a lot on Silkwings, which eh, ok, but it's not ok when it happens on Devilites that I need to be killing). Any tips about this?

I also find that my Max Damage + Max ASI Callahan is inferior to my Base Damage + Base ASI BTB in most situations, both offensively and defensively.

And @Uuni, the sad truth is that guns REALLY need damage trinkets. It doesn't matter what gun, even Polaris benefits so much from actually having a damage bonus that they should be considered nearly as much a priority as a full set of 5* weapons and armor. Gunning is expensive.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 09:31
#18
Imagen de The-Rawrcake
The-Rawrcake
"Gunning is expensive."What

"Gunning is expensive."

What Kalaina said as well as the fact that you start at 3* with gunner gear, not 2*. So it is not appealing to new players at all, as well the lower star guns have wierdly slow bullet speed.

Also Uuni, I don't like to be that guy, but its possible it is you.

First I wouldn't compare Cally vs. Polaris to slags, more-so Devilites and Wolvers.

Polaris is made more (in the design) a single target damage gun because of greater bullet clip and mobility (though you should never use polaris to DPS as it is a utility gun)

Callahan is not at all a DPS, damage per second, but instead a burst damage gun. With this, try using only the first bullet - shield - first bullet - shield, as reloading is something you want to avoid with 2 shot clip guns (2 shot guns are by far my favorite still)

And where do we want burst damage? Dodgers. Fiends, devilites specifically. Wolvers. Gremlins you can use a Callahan even without the special damage bonus because it knocks then down, becoming a utility gun (your party will be happy you are gunning gremlins :o )

Where is stun useful? Dodgers. Fiends, devilites specifically. Wolvers. See how this gun just fits where it should? Things like trojans would be bad even though it is weak to piercing because of the big slammy things like vana / lumbers / trojans using stun to their advantage. But dodgers, stun is great.

Lockdown, though piercing isn't that great in lockdown as well as no mobility, you want burst damage. it is also why Umbra is used by gunners in lockdown: 2 shot clip.

And as Kalaina said with gunning being expensive, that is really going to apply until you can get those 2 5* damage trinkets :/ just think: 2400 CE total craft cost for both trinkets is roughly 15 ish vana runs, not too bad! ( xO )

OH then also grab 2 ASI trinkets for Blitzing and 2 CTR trinkets for alchemers. Good farming and have fun!

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 09:26
#19
Imagen de The-Rawrcake
The-Rawrcake
"I find that my Callahan

"I find that my Callahan tends to miss enemies, not because they dodge, but because it hits them and then deals no damage for some reason (happens a lot on Silkwings, which eh, ok, but it's not ok when it happens on Devilites that I need to be killing). Any tips about this?"

Kalaina, do you have auto target set (by default) to activate when holding left shift?

If you aren't (though you probably are) just incase though, I would because using auto target helps a ton. But not all situations are good for auto target. Some you'll want to keep it off and aim w/ mouse / laptop... thing.... it's just a matter of finding out when

Also the bullets are a little screwy while shooting at blocks, and wings have really wierd hit boxes for everything (I find Nova easier to use on them).

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 10:41
#20
Imagen de Fradow
Fradow
Just to play on words, but

Just to play on words, but Callahan is NOT a burst damage gun. In my books, burst damage equals high damage then you are out for a while. Callahan is the contrary : low damage (you can argue on that, but if you want to argue, tell me how Blitz Charge is. That would be one of the weapon that could be classified as burst damage), and ok fire rate.

As you said, it's a weapon aimed against dodgers. I agree on that. The problem is that it does the job poorly compared to other weapon types (swords and bomb). Guns are meant to have a low dps in exchange for safety (except autogun series, but that's another thing), but Callahan dps is just TOO low, and with a trade-off to safety (root) compared to other guns. Even to fit its special niche (dodgers), it feels underpowered.

I own a lot of weapons of every type, but when i'm gunning, Callahan is really that gun i feel is underpowered. Even one of my gunslinger friend prefer to carry a piercing sword than Callahan, because of that.

As for the "expensive" arguments, sorry but every role benefits of trinket. No 2* gunslinger stuff is a caveat for new players, sure, but it doesn't change the cost much, unless you are looking for UV.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:20
#21
Imagen de Uuni
Uuni
I was kinda thinking... why

I was kinda thinking... why use callahan and spend money on trinkets and such when you can have BTB hitting for 180-200, three hits a piece, no reload, knockdown and knockback and usually at lower risk?

It just felt so pathetic seeing that you can hit pretty much everything harder with some other weapon, faster, safer and more utility too

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:24
#22
Imagen de The-Rawrcake
The-Rawrcake
You can call something burst

You can call something burst damage if its good in LD

Burst damage is not associated with PvE, DPS is associated to PvE

But when you add something like a dodgey monster, it is similar to PvP - things avoidin your stuff. If you go charge a Blitz into a wolver, it burrows and a good 12 of your bullets of the charge miss.

So go to LD and try using Blitz Needle if you think it is burst. Then try using Callahan and report which is better.

"but Callahan dps is just TOO low" you say, when it is not a DPS gun. It is a burst gun that you should never use on a boss, only dodgers.

And make sure you have at least very high if not ultra damage bonus to guns. I find it not to lack damage at all. If you are a swordsman, quit comparing guns now because you are not properly geared, but I will assume you are doing things right Fradow because you probably are: 2 damage trinks and gunner gear to fit your UVs / liking.

"and with a trade-off to safety (root) compared to other guns. " you say, when there is no safety issue with the root unless you are 1. shooting at wrong times and 2. reloading.

"sorry but every role benefits of trinket." you said when gunners almost require you to use two trinkets. Other roles I see people get by without them and do fine because their weapons are already powerful.

Otherwise you will think that guns aren't doing enough damage.

My opinions of this Callahan being the best designed and my most favorite remains the same. It does fine damage, it does the correct type of single bullet being powerful damage, and it has the correct status for dodgers.

This is the best gun to use on dodgers for every dodger situation

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:25
#23
Imagen de Batabii
Batabii
I never want to mess with

I never want to mess with non-heart trinkets, it's too much hassle. First you need to play coliseum for mod calibrators, then you need trinket slots. All that CE could be better used towards new weapons/armor.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:28
#24
Baby-Brush
AGREE

the damage on it is pathetic manly because for all that crap from magnus to mega magnus than callahan just turns an ok weapon into the coolest looking but worst of the guns... it needs BIG TIME boosting

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:33
#25
Imagen de The-Rawrcake
The-Rawrcake
"and usually at lower

"and usually at lower risk?"

Not really. The majority of people that hate fiends / hate vana being devilite themed are swordsman because they complain about things sword related and manage to hint it

I haven't heard a gunner complain about dying to devilites / wolver etc specifically mentioning / hinting that they use guns.

"and more utility too"

A BTB does not have utility besides its charge attack which knocks back. A Callahan can stun a dodger (which is a positive not a negative of stun unlike stunning lumbers etc.) as well as completely knock down gremlins with every bullet.

Not only, but if you have 4 swordsman swingin at a devilite, they slap the thing out of eachother's reach. A gunner isn't going to be knockin the thing out of your reach unless the thing gets a dodge off

While using a Callahan, you will find that most monsters do not dodge even after being hit.
____________________________________________________________________

@Zmag, if you think it is the WORST of the guns, go spam a nova driver / blitz needle into a pack of devilites / wolvers and report how useful that was compared to Callahan.
_____________________________________________________________________
"I never want to mess with non-heart trinkets, it's too much hassle. First you need to play coliseum for mod calibrators, then you need trinket slots. All that CE could be better used towards new weapons/armor."

Once you have that new weapons / armor, you don't have anything else to get besides trinkets. Also, check the AH for mod calibrators.

Also, weapon and trinket slots are something that will help you a ton end-game. If you cannot get those, I wouldn't try to be a gunner especially.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:36
#26
Imagen de The-Rawrcake
The-Rawrcake
Ok guys this is

Ok guys this is overwhelming.

Please read this!:

are you talking about Callahan or Iron Slug?

Iron slug = normal damage

Callahan = PIERCING damage and stun just like the magnus.

I cannot comprehend why there is so much hate in this thread, I know you know Uuni that you have the Callahan, but everyone else... pleaaaaase... make sure you are talking about Callahan and not Iron Slug.

T_T

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 11:40
#27
Jontlemen
"But when you add something

"But when you add something like a dodgey monster, it is similar to PvP - things avoidin your stuff. If you go charge a Blitz into a wolver, it burrows and a good 12 of your bullets of the charge miss."

No, if you manage to hit a wolver with Blitz it will be stunlocked and die very quickly. At least that's what happened earlier today to me.

"So go to LD and try using Blitz Needle if you think it is burst. Then try using Callahan and report which is better."

That's because people in LD do not get stunlocked, are not large enemies that stand in one place for large periods of time, and have invulnerability frames, which prevents all the needles from hitting.

"This is the best gun to use on dodgers for every dodger situation"
Unless you have too many people in your party and are too deep and your Callahan stops making dodgy monsters flinch from single bullets.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 12:07
#28
Imagen de Fradow
Fradow
@Rawrcake : - so you say

@Rawrcake :
- so you say Callahan is not a DPS gun, but DPS is associated with PvE. Something is wrong with that. Sure, it can work in LD (I still feel that alchemers are better there, but i don't gun there)
- I just can't agree with your statement on trinkets. I can do fine with guns without using any trinkets (sure, it'll be sub-par, but it works). On the other hand, using effectively my sealed swords or bombs with ASI/CTR respectively is going to be VERY hard.
- Vana being fiends themed (more trojans themed but whatever) => experienced players, regardless of their main role, bring a Blitz Needle there. Problem solved.
- on BTB : it doesn't need any utility in th first place. It will kill pretty much everything by the time you shoot 2 bullets and reload. That's why i don't like Callahan : too slow to kill anything.
- Jontlemen also have a good argument.

I wouldn't say I hate Callahan. I just feel it's underpowered and could benefit from a buff. Especially since it is the only anti-dodger weapon gunners have (Blitz is out for being too risky, even if it can be used).

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 14:39
#29
Imagen de Ween-Bot
Ween-Bot
Comparing Callahan BTB/FF

Swords will always have more DPS than guns. Guns (supposedly) make up for this by being able to attack from range. The point of Callahan is to give PURE gunners a weapon against Wolvers and Devilites - if you find a sword more effective by all means use it.

On the other hand, if you're comparing Callahan to Blitz Needle, the Blitz will do more damage, but you're vulnerable for much longer when you use it. The knockdown effect of the charge attack is extremely useful, but if you miss one Devilite or Wolver in your cone of fire it'll most likely hit you before your attack is finished. On the other hand, if you don't have room to stay still or walk around charging, the better mobility of Callahan will make it more viable.

Overall though, I think you've sadly made the wrong choice Uuni - Callahan isn't a swordsman's sidearm like Blitz or Polaris, it's a beast and fiend killer for pure gunslingers.

Dom, 01/08/2012 - 14:59
#30
Imagen de Batabii
Batabii
Callahan has a knockdown

Callahan has a knockdown effect without a charge though...and stuns sometimes to boot.

Lun, 01/09/2012 - 02:29
#31
Imagen de Arquebus
Arquebus
Ween-Bot hit the nail on the

Ween-Bot hit the nail on the head: Callahan is not a swordsman's weapon, it's a gunner's weapon. Its mechanical purpose is to get around gunners' weakness to enemies that dodge. It's not going to be as effective as a sword in terms of damage because you're attacking (relatively) safely from range.

As a pure gunner myself, Callahan is one of my favorite guns because (compared to other guns, mind you) it hits hard on enemies that are normally troublesome for me. Wolvers and Devilites don't land a single hit on you if you time your shots correctly, and nearly every bullet you fire connects. Solo, it only takes 3 shots in t3 to kill a devilite!

Lun, 01/09/2012 - 04:12
#32
Jontlemen
One of the things the magnus

One of the things the magnus line needs is consistency. Certain enemies should always be knocked down regardless of how many people you have in your group, so long as the gun is appropriate for the stratum it is in.

As much as I hate plugging my own threads, here's one in the Suggestion forums (that seem to be avoided for good reason) that has reasonable buffs for all the guns that wouldn't take a whole bunch of efforts on the dev's part to implement:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/39659

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