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Option of Changing Spiral Knights' Difficulty

12 replies [Last post]
Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:22
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake

* So the main point of making this is to follow up the handgun and bomb damage buffs, and the final retrode nerf (of course, following even other retrode nerfs and the nerfing of many monsters in the clockworks). Even an average person has told me that once he started Tier 3, he felt like it wasn't what tier 3 should be.

* It is fine that we would rather buff things that players use instead of nerf to reduce the rage. Nothing is wrong with that, I would not want to deal with it either since it can result in players quitting. However, once our enemies are nerfed and we are buffed there needs to be a way to counter it. That is what this suggestion is about.

Difficulty levels: Normal -> Danger -> Expert -> Master. Sorry if the names suck, we get the idea.

The good thing about different difficulties is that any player can change it in options or keep it where they want it to be.

There is not an award for having a higher difficulty. It is just something that can be used to make the game more fun. However, if there was to be an award, it should be something like a rare chance to find a costume piece. That way, we don't mess with the market and it is easier for the market to be controlled by the devs.

Normal: Monsters deal 1x damage, have 1x health, and receive 1x healing. You are allowed to revive with energy or another player's health.

Danger: Monsters deal 2x damage, have 1x health, and receive 1x healing. You are allowed to revive with energy or another player's health.

Expert: Monsters deal 2x damage, have 2x health, and receive 1x healing. You are allowed to revive with another player's health, but not with energy.

Master: Monsters deal 3x damage, have 3x health, and receive 2x healing. You are not allowed to revive with energy nor another player's health. You will immediately return to Haven after dying.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:39
#1
Whimsicality's picture
Whimsicality
3

While I'm all for people getting what they want, this seems kinda like...

I'd love to have random Red Chapeaus drop for no reason though. So, +1.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:09
#2
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Costume rewards and what not

The problem with giving costume rewards is the specific costume(s) handed out; absolutely no chapeaus or exclusive energy pack promotional costumes or their values will immediately drop to nothing. As long as they are new and/or not tradable upon previous release, it would not cause an economic issue to reward increased difficulty with costumes. Accessories are the same in terms of promotional wings, those obnoxious twin tails, and other silly things they pulled out of their belly button.

Yes, they have been making the game unnecessarily easier. Changing the swivel ability on Wolvers and zombies from being able to turn immediately at will to the player is one thing, but completely removing that turning ability is another; it could have been slowed/delayed or limited to a certain maximum degree, but instead they threw the whole thing out the window and glued the double jumping attack which annoys users who stand still for a couple seconds while it is facing them. Wolvers got nothing in exchange for the loss. Retrode health seemed fine from personal experience, increasing health on other enemies a little may have made their own health somewhat more appropriate. Constructs are sturdy, like a brick wall; except they are chasing you, vomiting lasers with their face, swinging giant tree limbs, et cetera. Constructs have seen better days.

Bombs and guns did not need a buff, swords needed a nerf; a few guns also needed to be nerfed (Blitz, Pulsar) in some manner. Has anyone else tested using a Polaris and a Storm Driver in Firestorm Citadel? If you know how to use an Alchemer, Storm does far more damage than Polaris can even pretend to. What does Polaris do? Knock everything away from your teammates when they want to melee off the screen forever. Also, Brandish lines; to stay consistent with Alchemer values, Nightblade should have more base damage than the elemental lines due to its lack of status affliction ability. The shadow Alchemer has more base damage than the status afflicting ones. This has been discussed in another thread, but nerfing the elemental Brandish line damage a little would make Nightblade more useful in comparison as it lacks a status; not a damage buff for Nightblade, a damage reduction for the elemental Brandish lines. Not cut its legs off, trim its fingernails; I can grind out some balance notes here later upon request or free will.

With the upcoming "Danger Rooms" we may receive the greater difficulty we have been asking for, though they may prove to be a disappointment. It might be good, but it might not be. Hurr.

The tier system is supposed to signify difficulty, though often times users have been disappointed. What this game really needs is more problem solving based gameplay, not pumping health and damage into what we already have; all that would do is make swords more useful than they already are. "Enemy in front of me, me hit enemy good. Smash smash. Derp herp." When these neanderthals encounter something which easily outsmarts them they throw a tantrum and whine about it until they get beaten down with jelly filled shoes baked in honey and almonds. The competent user finds a way to outsmart this enemy and conquers where brute force failed.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:15
#3
Asukalan's picture
Asukalan
ALL WE NEED IS OOO STOP

ALL WE NEED IS OOO STOP NERFING THINGS

Then it will be fine. OMG, they put some robo zombies in rescue camp mission, WHY THE HELL they nerfed ALL robo zombies???

They removed wolver tracking, they removed totrodrone.

OOO needs to seerusly stop nerfing things, so we wont have to come up with complicated suggestions like this.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:32
#4
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
@WhimsI can't the of the

@Whims

I can't the of the word I need to use. I scammed over the link? Scimmed over it? Glanced over? Whatever. I read it but not really. Your fault for bringing it up because now I cannot think of the word to use.

Anyways, this difficulty is controlled by the players and not mandatory. Also, it didn't even seem to fall under the categories listed???

@Asukalan, yeah it sucks. And it is TOO LATE sadly. OOO just kept nerfing and nerfing and I cannot even play this game because of how trashy and easy the monsters are. Especially with these new buffed damages of ours.

Danger missions. They are our LAST HOPE, but OOO must first add tier 1 content of course -.- could it just be that they have terrible priorities???? Something HAS TO BE messed up with them to make it this bad.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:47
#5
Thimol's picture
Thimol
-----

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/54758#comment-383534

In short: +1 to the idea of difficulty levels.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:56
#6
Merethif's picture
Merethif
What about only two levels?

What about only two levels? Something like that:

Easy:
- Zombies and Alpha Wolvers don't have tracking ability
- Retrodes' beam attack has a significant delay
- Menders are unable to make melee attacks with wrench and cast Ember Bolt
- Red Rovers and Gremlin Scorchers flames burn for half as long and move about 20% slower
- Oilers burn time reduced 66% and movement speed reduced (similar for Quicksilvers)
- Phantoms health reduced and inactive period after death increased

Normal:
- Zombies and Alpha Wolvers have tracking ability
- Retrodes' beam attack doesn't have a delay
- Menders are able to make melee attacks with wrench and cast Ember Bolt
- Red Rovers and Gremlin Scorchers flames burn for pre-nerfed time and move with pre-nerfed speed.
- Oilers burn time and movement speed are not reduced (similar for Quicksilvers)
- Phantoms health not reduced and inactive period after death not increased

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 15:10
#7
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
Honestly, we need a whole

Honestly, we need a whole other set of monster mechanics.

It doesn't matter if they have more health and deal more damage, it just becomes a dodge-everything-for-10-minutes-which-is-freaking-easy-just-that-you-slip-once-and-die.

That isn't fun. Or difficult.

We need.....

DUN... DUN..... DUUUUUUUUUN.

A Tier 4. Not at all like tier 1 or 2 or 3. Tier 4 is just a set of expansion missions that have different monster mechanics. Of course, the monsters deal more damage + have a BIT more health as well.

For example, all melee attacks from monsters track again. Retrodes shoot out three beams. Retrodes' beams shoot out faster requiring quicker reactions. Retrodes actually explode (like a bomb, with a red warning circle) when they die instead of just burst a bit then disappear. Turret projectiles move faster than snail speed requiring quicker reactions. Phantoms' charge attack is more like Fang of Vog instead of a weird GF / gun puppy bullet combination. Scuttlebots actually shoot out bullets instead of just shoot them a small way then they disappear.

Stuff like that. Not exactly that, of course. And a lot more... of course.

But MAYBE this is what danger missions are.

Our last hope! Danger missions.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 16:28
#8
Spectrumized's picture
Spectrumized
+1 For Idea; -1 For Implementation

It has been tried in many games, MMOs and others, and it doesn't work as well as it did on paper.

You cannot just double, triple, or half an enemy's health or damage and expect it to work well. That is artificial difficulty. The entire game has to be designed around the difficulty, especially including enemy dynamics, AI, and yes, attributes such as health and damage. While I do agree that T3 is too easy and Shadow Lairs are too expensive (Again, artificial difficulty of the cost of the key), simply adding options for making enemies be able to take more hits wont work as well as you may think.

What we need, as The-Rawrcake mentioned in the post above mine, is a new 'tier' that has more difficult mechanics in addition to the additional difficulty in attributes. Yes, hopefully danger missions will give us the challenge this game desperately needs.

EDIT: Alright, I finally read Luguiru's large comment.

Yes, especially about problem-solving based gameplay. While I don't exactly want them to give us a giant Rubix cube we have to solve to open a door while we are being attacked by twenty-six respawning retrodes that shoot five lazer beams, I do think that more strategy should be involved during combat. I was extremely disappointed with the lack of strategy Vanaduke took. The Roarmulus Twins and Jelly Queen, before you had enough DPS to down her in a couple of seconds, were nice tactical boss fights, but they were still too easy and could be mastered in minutes. I'd love to see some extremely hard stratum/tier/boss/mission that has dozens of unique mechanics happening at the same time and makes wiping several times in an attempt 'average' without giving a mob the ability to throw rocket-launching nukes that blow up the entire map for 9001 bars of health in damage per player.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 16:51
#9
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
i dont want to sound like a d***...

but im pretty sure i will :/
are you guys P2P players? cuz this might actually be the problem.
when you get energy, and crowns. things you do is upgrade the weapons. maybe you got awesome UVs. so...the gameplay is easier for you. maybe you have exactly every gear so any level you encounter you have the perfect load-out...so much crowns you decided to waste alot on some epic costumes...the problem now is that you have done everything. you done enough boss fights to know whats gonna happen, when its gonna happen, every time.
i believe the reason Triple Rings came out with the danger missions is to make the game fun for the p2p again. there is a bigger F2P crowd then there is P2P. so more F2P find the game hard while the small P2P players find the game easy.
so when you keep commenting on this wonderful idea (i think its wonderful anyway) try to keep the perspective of an all-around player.

p.s. you said t4 should be an expansion mission, giving away that your P2P o_o
pps. thanks for the 500CE again :D

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 17:10
#10
Spectrumized's picture
Spectrumized
@Canine-Vladmir

Time investment requirements does not equal difficulty, and it seems that you haven't realized the sheer amount of F2P players that are in the meta-game that are bored and want more challenging content. Free or CE-purchased, harder content would be better for F2P and P2P players.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 18:07
#11
The-Rawrcake's picture
The-Rawrcake
Totally agree with you

Totally agree with you spectrum.

And on that one thing recently. Both P2P players a F2P players can be bored... I know that there are plenty of F2P players that have 5* stuff and can easily run FSC when they want.

A "Tier 4" set of monster mechanics (not necessarily an entire new tier, maybe just expansion missions) as well as hopefully some better rooms w/ puzzles + problem-solving that is more difficult than find the button after smashing the blocks.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 23:44
#12
Metagenic's picture
Metagenic
My random idea of a "hardest difficulty" mode

- Enemies have more health and damage

- Enemies have quicker reactions and better aim with ranged attacks

- More enemies

- All five types of turrets in one level (gun puppies, fire puppies, rocket puppies, howlitzers, and polyps)

- Shields break in one hit from anything it doesn't protect against (for example if you're using a BTS, then even a Scuttlebot shot will instabreak it)

- No health vampirism (enemies drop no hearts and no health packs, the only place to get health packs is from treasure boxes)

- No reviving (once you die you're out regardless of your remaining energy or teammates still alive)

- All of OOO's previous nerfs completely undone besides the artificial difficulty fixes like the Retrode's bugged attack range

- More puzzles and problem solving

- Swarm Seed at some points in the game

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