Spiral Knights - Suggestion: Fancy New Shadow Brandishes!

Suggestion: Fancy New Shadow Brandishes!

19 respuestas [Último envío]

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 06:43

Hasturhasturhastur

I've been thinking, why do the Elemental brandishes get all the fun? We've got three (count 'em!) lines of Elemental Brandishes, all of which inflict some flavor of painful status effect on anything they hit. What does Shadow damage in the Brandish lines? A single sword line, no status effects at all.

So, in order to a) increase the prevalence of Shadow damage based weapons and b) even out the Brandish lines, I suggest:

Change the Nightblade line (Nightblade, Silent Nightblade, Acheron) to have a slightly lower charge attack damage. What's the reason for this? It now also inflicts Strong Poison to any monsters hit by the charge attack, in the same way that the Elemental Brandishes inflict Strong [status].

Add two more Brandish lines, both dealing Shadow damage to enemies.

New Brandish line A (Dazeblade, Stunning Dazeblade, Stupefier) would inflict, as the name suggests, Strong Stun. Hopefully, OOO will resolve all these nasty Stun issues before they introduce more things that inflict Stun.

New Brandish line B (Hexblade, Jinxed Hexblade, Nemesis) would have an extended charge time, and (can you see where this is going?) have a charge attack that has a 25% change to inflict Strong Curse to any enemy hit by it and a 12.5% change to inflict Strong Curse on the user. As an additional balancing measure, perhaps this particular line would need to have its recipies purchased from Sullivan in the same way that the Voltedge line currently does.

I'm aware that the names are a tad uninventive, but I'm kinda awful at actually generating usable titles for things ::P

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 06:47

Softhead

No more brandishes.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 07:03

Skyguarder

Kabooming

We already have a nightblade. If thats what your talking about. Stunning and sleep would almost be the same because for stun you move slower, and sleep you sleep (Can't move). Those 2 sound like freeze, relating to stun and sleep. Better to stick with what we have

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 07:22

Asukalan

We already have gran faust as

We already have gran faust as curse weapon.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 07:30

Metagenic

…

Acheron doesn't need status effects. Elemental-vulnerable enemies have more hp than shadow-vulnerable enemies (which usually die in one charge).

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 07:37

Hasturhasturhastur

@Tohru-Adachi Please

@Tohru-Adachi Please elaborate. Why should we not get "more Brandishes"?

@Benightz I don't recall suggesting adding Sleep anywhere, and Stun and Freeze function quite differently.

@Asukalan And the fact that Gran Faust inflicts Curse precludes other weapons from inflicting Curse how...?

@Metagenic OOO could also buff Shadow-weak enemies (Or every enemy type. That'd be nice too.). Although if shadow-weak enemies die on a charge hit, then why would adding Status effects matter? Poison compensates for lowered charge damage quite nicely, I'd say.

This forums really needs a quite function ::\

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 09:56

Softhead

-_-

WE DON'T NEED MORE BRANDISHES.

How clearer can this frigging get?

This is basically adding every single status onto a single line, making What's the point of most of these other lines when I can get all the Brandish Lines!

GF would be Blown out of the water.

Archeron damage is worse than the elemental Brandishes in terms of Neutral. By nerfing it again, you would be making it useless.

it needs to be on par.

Why would it need poison?

The Brandish line is okay, it doesn't need anymore items added onto it, as it had recived a MASSIVE buff.

Any thing with a similar mechanic/line never has all statuses or all types of damage.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 10:42

Hasturhasturhastur

"This is basically adding

"This is basically adding every single status onto a single line, making What's the point of most of these other lines when I can get all the Brandish Lines!"

Different swords have different playstyles - the Divine Avenger and Gran Faust still have their massive knockback and (in the case of the DA, at least) amazing charge attacks, and the Final Flourish / Barbarous Thorn Blade are the only lines that do Piercing damage.

"Archeron damage is worse than the elemental Brandishes in terms of Neutral. By nerfing it again, you would be making it useless."

I don't suppose you have evidence of this? Moreover, as I have stated, decreasing the charge attack damage slightly compensates for the Strong Poison status it applies, which increases the amount of damage monsters take by quite a bit (the wiki doesn't have exact figures, I'm afraid.)

I'd also like to point out that the Brandish is by far the most versatile sword in the game already - I see no reason to not expand it's versatility to more fully cover the remaining statuses and expand into a damage type it already has a foothold in.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 10:53

Luguiru

Brandish has enough branches

It already has versatility.

Almost everyone uses one at some point.

It is not a support based weapon.

Stop trying to make something what it is not.

Use Gran Faust if you want a shadow damage sword with curse.

See here.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 11:11

Softhead

There is being versatile,

And just being OP.

You can go through most lvs with two specalised dmg.

You're adding to that and adding every single status.

Don't you see what's wrong with that? You could just get the brandish lines with everysingle status, and go throught with only 2/6ths of the enemies having neutral.

They already shun the now buggy DA line.

And here is a post made by Luguriu, that has where I got my info from, and what he means:

A poison branch for Brandish makes as much sense as a stun one. Which is none.

The status branches which currently exist for Brandish are active; fire, freeze, and shock. If you threw a vial with any of those statuses at something it has an active effect and will deal damage without anything else happening. Stun technically is also an active status because it does not need anything to trigger its delaying effect, though as broken as it is, but poison is a passive status which requires something else to happen for the status to do anything. Curse is also a passive status because if you are inflicted with curse and just stand there nothing will happen. Passive statuses are "support" as well as statuses which do not deal damage (poison technically increases incoming damage but does not deal damage itself). Brandish is an active effect based weapon for elemental relevant statuses. It is not a support weapon. It is not a sidearm weapon. It is a primary offense kind of weapon. Unless you are being as silly as I am, you took that Brandish with you into battle to use it.

Since Nightblade does not have a status its damage should be slightly higher than the status inflicting branches, whether by its own damage increased or the other branches lowered. Look at Alchemers.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 11:27

#10

Stingz

Gran Faust is displeased

Curse on a Nightblade is never happening, it's an insane status with a steep costs. (Long,long charge time, self-curse)

Nightblade deals the same amount as the status brandishes in shadow, does not need damage reduction.
There is already tons of swords, we don't need more yet. (Though we do need more not-terrible bombs)

This idea is bad, and you should feel bad.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 11:24

#11

Asukalan

"Different swords have

"Different swords have different playstyles - the Divine Avenger and Gran Faust still have their massive knockback and (in the case of the DA, at least) amazing charge attacks, and the Final Flourish / Barbarous Thorn Blade are the only lines that do Piercing damage."

"Amazing"? LOL, that was hilarious.

Do you call "amazing" a charge that disappears every time there is SOMETHING behind your back? Do you call "amazing" a charge that disappears EVERY TIME in lockdown, no matter where you are?

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 12:47

#12

Dukeplatypus

You shouldn't low Acheron's

You shouldn't low Acheron's base damage because it already does the same damage as its status cousins.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 13:16

#13

Hasturhasturhastur

Stop trying to make something

Stop trying to make something what it is not.
I'm not. Currently, the Acheron line causes no status, I'm suggesting to change that, so that the Brandish lines have a more "complete" feel to them and incorporate all (non-Sleep) statuses, split evenly between Shadow damage Brandishes and Elemental damage Brandishes.

Use Gran Faust if you want a shadow damage sword with curse.
Gran Faust, being a two-hit high knockback slow sword, has a very different playstyle than a more nimble three-hit Brandish.

Don't you see what's wrong with that? You could just get the brandish lines with everysingle status, and go throught with only 2/6ths of the enemies having neutral.
You can already traverse levels with two sources of specialized damage, and I'm sure most players do. Adding more Brandish lines would serve to increase the options players have when choosing weapons, and I see no reason why player choice is a bad thing.

Curse on a Nightblade is never happening, it's an insane status with a steep costs. (Long,long charge time, self-curse)
I'd say that in both gameplay and meta levels the curse-inflicting Nightblade I suggested is balanced - roughly the same mechanics as the Gran Faust, along with being difficult / time consuming to obtain.

There is already tons of swords, we don't need more yet. (Though we do need more not-terrible bombs)
I see no reason to not add more swords. Better bombs would certainly be nice, but that's hardly the point of this thread.

Do you call "amazing" a charge that disappears every time there is SOMETHING behind your back? Do you call "amazing" a charge that disappears EVERY TIME in lockdown, no matter where you are
I have never experienced the "dissappearing charge blades" effect outside of standing in front of non-breakable walls. The charge does massive knockbakc and respectable damage to anything caught in it, and I believe that calling it "amazing" is a reasonable descriptor.

You shouldn't low Acheron's base damage because it already does the same damage as its status cousins.
I'm not suggesting lowering it's base damage, I'm suggesting lowering it's charge attack damage slightly, in order to compensate for the Stron Poison status that is applied to anything hit by it.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 13:45

#14

Softhead

"I'm not suggesting lowering

"I'm not suggesting lowering it's base damage, I'm suggesting lowering it's charge attack damage slightly, in order to compensate for the Stron Poison status that is applied to anything hit by it."

Blitz and Plague.

"I'm not. Currently, the Acheron line causes no status, I'm suggesting to change that, so that the Brandish lines have a more "complete" feel to them and incorporate all (non-Sleep) statuses, split evenly between Shadow damage Brandishes and Elemental damage Brandishes."

With that logic, then we should do the same with the Alchemers(It's missing Poison, Curse and stun!)! Or then with Catalyzer!(Only poison! We should add all the others to make it complete!)

It just doesn't need them.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 15:38

#15

Hasturhasturhastur

I actually like the idea of

I actually like the idea of evening out the Alchemers in much the same way as I've suggested for the Brandishes that you just provided, Tohru ^-^

Shadow weaponry (and moreover, piercing weaponry) is simply not common enough in the game right now, and resolving that would be nice - it expands on how players can play the game by letting them refine their loadouts further, and likely improves Lockdown as well.

Mar, 08/14/2012 - 15:52

#16

Softhead

O_O

Crud.

Anyway, I'm all in for shadow based weapons, but we need other lines to get them other than Brandish.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 01:59

#17

Asukalan

" Gran Faust, being a two-hit

" Gran Faust, being a two-hit high knockback slow sword, has a very different playstyle than a more nimble three-hit Brandish." You dont want to use gran faust? No curse for you then :P

Didnt you think that giving curse on heavy slow sword is part of restrictions to not make it OP?
"I have never experienced the "dissappearing charge blades" effect outside of standing in front of non-breakable walls. The charge does massive knockbakc and respectable damage to anything caught in it, and I believe that calling it "amazing" is a reasonable descriptor."

Lie :P

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 05:52

#18

Hasturhasturhastur

You dont want to use gran

You dont want to use gran faust? No curse for you then :P
I'm pretty sure that the 12.5% chance to curse enemies on charge hit and the 25% chance to curse yourself on a charge attack is pretty balanced, although the percentages aren't set in stone, and OOO does have a preview server to get people to test things like this in, so if the percentages needed ot be adjusted to something more like 12.5% (for enemies) and 50% (for players) respectively to balance it, that still gets the "sword that causes curse and deals shadow damage" design decision across.

I'm not even going to bother addressing your second comment.

Mié, 08/15/2012 - 05:56

#19

Asukalan

"I have never experienced the

"I have never experienced the "dissappearing charge blades" effect outside of standing in front of non-breakable walls."

Its just like admiting that you barely or maybe never used DA/GF and well, your whole suggestion is just to bring curse to brandishes because you dont want to dirt your hands with heavy swords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrzmzCCIAtU look at all those 'amazing' charges

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Suggestion: Fancy New Shadow Brandishes!