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Utility gun for bombers?

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Awoogawooga

Hi all, need some advice. I'm a Bomber and I'm kinda tired of Turrets. It didn't used to be a problem because I could dodge, but my connection's slower where I am now, so lag is an issue :(

Anyways, I usually only have weapon 2 slots, but I wanna get a gun for taking out turrets. Any suggestions of which gun to get?

I already have Polaris, Storm Driver, Umbra Driver and Sentenza. Should I just use either of these and forget about getting a new gun?

I have a Master Blaster and Mega Magnus, as well as a Tundrus. Should I just upgrade these to Valiance, Iron Slug (or Callahan?) and Winter Grave, to serve as my utility gun?

Like I said, I mainly want a gun for utility. Taking out turrets, breaking rocks, hitting switches... that sort of thing. That's why I'm leaning toward getting a Normal Damage gun. Or are the guns I already have sufficient? If so, which should I go for as my utility gun? As said, I'm primarily a bomber.

Thanks guys.

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Nertgvv
Nert :D

Hey. I'm a gunner that has.... quite a few guns. Your a bomber? Ok then. There are a few choices:

Pulsar: Its a pretty good sidearm thats explosive (haha) that can deal OK damage. Supernove does quite abit more damage than Polaris on NEUTRAL damage, whilst the Polaris does 20 points more than Supernova on strong. Eh.... its your choice. Its just that the Pulsar line is a good sidearm to put some distance between you and your enemies so you can place down a shivy or something

Catalyzer: Its a fun weapon and its a weapon that has knockback on the direction the orb is compared to the enemy. It may lag your computer if your computer isn't so good, and the main reason to use it is to get a bunch of orbs around a person and detonating it all, doing around 1000 points of damage. Gun Puppies worst nightmare :D

Blaster: Its a good sidearm that has reasonable knockback. The downside is that its not very good in anything but its ok in everything. The Blaster line is the more balanced type of weapon, like a defensive and a offensive weapon all in one.

Drivers: People count it as a heavy-hitting gun, but really.... I don't think so. They just count it that because it can ricochet inwards and deal double damage, though it might seem to you kinda hard. Also, the charge attack is devastating, technically dealing 7x damage if all your bullets hit (most likely)

Antigua: This is my personal favorite type of gun. Its basically a blaster with mini bullets, less damage per shot, and more damage over time without knockback. In other words, NOT A BLASTER. These guns are more of a area control where you can deal abit of damage to everyone at the same time. Considering your a bomber, its a good strat to suck them in a Vortex than spam at the vortex, dealing max damage before it explodes. The problem is that the damage per shot is low, which is why I reccoment to switch it situationally. Works for me :D

Magnus/Tundrus: Finally to the TRUE heavy hitter. These guns are literally the gun to knock down the enemy, or to kill them with a charge attack thats hits them 5 times. The gun's normal attacks isn't so impressive, its just that 1 shot cancels attacks. Thats a good thing for gun puppies. The charge attack is its main point. After the updatte, it basically became op, hitting 5-6 times of 230 damage (or I think its 230). Fun gun, OK for bomber's defence.

For utility, I would go for Antigua, as its GREAT for taking out turrets, breaking blocks, and hitting switches. You mentioned your OK at dodging... so you won't need the knockback.... or will you? If you need the knockback, Valiance. The pulsar line is also OK, its just the slower bullet speed kinda makes it hard to hit gremlinds, wolvers, fiends, etc.

CHOSE WISELY :D

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Bopp
turrets

There are three kinds of turrets: gun puppies (construct), polyps (slime), and howlitzers (undead). Therefore elemental weapons are disproportionately useful against turrets, and piercing weapons are generally bad against turrets.

As I mentioned in another current thread, I like alchemers as sidearm guns, because I can take out a turret in a single charge attack, rather than standing in its field of fire and wearing it down with multiple shots.

A lot of players will recommend pulsars as good sidearm guns, especially against turrets. They are easy to use, and the knockback doesn't push the turrets away from the shots, so you don't lose damage as you sometimes do against movable targets.

Nertgvv is right that the magnus-line guns have big charges. But to get the most out of the charge, the monster has to be knocked back, so that the charge shot hits multiple times. I'm not sure, and I can't test it right now, but I'm concerned that magnus-style charges might not hit a turret many times.

So in short I would just carry Storm Driver or Umbra Driver, depending on which kind of turret you expect. This is the cheapest solution for you, because you already have these guns. And if you know how to aim charge attacks, so that the ricochets go into the target, then it's also the most effective solution.

Awoogawooga
Thanks for the info. As a

Thanks for the info.

As a Bomber, my main concern is taking out Turrets and breaking Ores/Blocks. Switches aren't usually as big a priority. I'm not too concerned about keeping distance or knockback (I WANT them to get close). I don't really care about damage or crowd control from the gun, as I've bombs.

Thanks for mentioning the Magnus-type's ability for interrupting attacks. I didn't know that. I knew it interrupted or knocked down/stun soft enemies, I didn't know it's interrupting ability extended to turret type enemies.

As I said, I already have Polaris, but now I'm contemplating Supernova. I'd like to be able to take out Turrets/Gun Pups asap, regardless of their type. Although then again, I guess there aren't many Element Resistant turret type enemies?

Thanks for the info.

Awoogawooga
@Bopp

Thanks for the info.

Yeah, that's why I'm considering an Iron Slug. Or even a Supernova or Valiance. I want something that can work for all types.

Are Iron slugs good for turrets? I don't care about damage or knockback or whatever. I just wanna kill those quick so I can bomb the heck outta the more mobile enemies.

Thanks.

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Bopp
who

Editing my post, as you post more responses...

As I mentioned above, one type of turret is neutral to elemental, and the other two types of turret are vulnerable to elemental. If I had to choose a single damage type to use against all turrets, I would pick elemental, not normal.

You don't care about knockback for the sake of crowd control. But you need to care about knockback for magnus charges, because the charge doesn't do much damage unless it also knocks the monster back. That might be a problem against turrets, which can't be knocked back.

I don't really care about damage or crowd control from the gun, as I've bombs.

But you do care about gun damage against turrets, because you want to take out turrets as fast as possible. That's why I recommend a gun that can kill a turret in a single charge attack. And that means guns with big charge attacks, and that means autoguns, alchemers, or magnuses.

Autogun charges probably won't deliver enough damage against a small target at long range, because they spread out so much. And magnus charges might not do much damage if there's no knockback. (This should be tested. I'm not sure about it right now.) That leaves alchemers, which can definitely kill a turret in one charge shot from a decent distance.

Awoogawooga
@Bopp

Thanks. Well, since there's no turret resistant to elemental, that really helps. I'll probably use my trusty Storm Driver then.

What's your take on the pulsar types for the purpose of Turret Busting?

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Orbwanter

Nertgvv is right that the magnus-line guns have big charges. But to get the most out of the charge, the monster has to be knocked back, so that the charge shot hits multiple times. I'm not sure, and I can't test it right now, but I'm concerned that magnus-style charges might not hit a turret many times.

Magnus charges tend to hit targets two or three times if you're far enough for the shot to explode on them. Iron Slug is a decent gun for sniping turrets, the main downside being its alchemy line means you're most likely stuck with either piercing damage or a partially heated gun.

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Gyrruss
Yar

Heya! Jack-of-all-trades here, primarily a Heavy sword/gun user.

You wanna kill turrets fast? I have some recommendations, and here's why:

Pulsar: Easy a good gun for some area control and minor stagger over turrets. Sure, the damage isnt the best, but the wide area coupled with the status effect it causes (or slightly more damage in the case of Supernova) make it an easy-peasy gun to use.

Alchemers: The powerhouse of guns. You need something dead /now/? Chargeshot* it. That's really all you need; like Bopp mentioned, elemental guns have an advantage over your issue, so either the Nova Driver or any of the status variants work more than fine.

*You'll need to learn land the charge in an unorthodox way to get the full effectiveness of it.

Iron Slug: A personal favorite. This is where I'd like to clarify a bit; while hitting the monster with the charge from beginning-to-end would be optimal, this isnt necesary as most of it's damage occurs at the final explosion; yes, you will lose about 2-3 ticks of damage, but the final blast hits approximately 3-5 times, effectively enough to either one-shot or leave them almost dead (so that a clip or so finishes the job). The downside is that it's a relatively slow gun, so you need to be careful.

Note that these aren't the only guns that work well against turrets, but recommended for quick-n-easy turret wrecking.

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Nertgvv
Yesh

Ya, orbwanter is right, it can hit 2-3 times from long range, therefore dealing damage of an alchemer....? Or close to one. The bad thing is that it does normal, as calahan won't be much use. Also, the Iron Slug has GREAT crowd control by shooting a charge into a crowd :D

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Fehzor

Your polaris and storm driver should fit you well enough for turrets, but iron slug and a good number of guns are effective and fun if you have time and effort to put into it. If you have CTR, go for storm driver as its charge can be incredible and if you don't, just use your polaris and be done with it. What you shouldn't do (to solve this issue at least) is try to craft something like argent peacemaker, wildfire, arcana- that would be a rather wasteful use of resources.

Since you're a bomber, I'd also recommend you look into operation crimson hammer (if you haven't already) for dark retribution and possibly the mask of seerus (to buff your storm driver/slug, if you decide to use handguns). Dark retribution is capable of killing slime and construct themed turrets just as well as any gun is, provided you can get close enough to bomb it for a bit. Dark retribution is also the most potent DPS bomb.

@Nert

Actually, the drivers' charge is just about the most damaging thing of all time when all of it lands. From the wiki-

Driver damage effective, D28:
Normal: 220
Charge: 431

"A large bullet which will split into four smaller bullets upon impact. Two bullets split off at right angles from the original shot, two fire back towards the gunner at a 45 degree angle, similar to previous versions of the gun. Each smaller bullet will ricochet twice. "

1x charge damage
(4 * 3 = 4 bullets that ricochet twice)x normal bullets

Total damage: 3071-- if all of it hits (a big if)

Iron Slug damage, D28:
Charge: 385

Hits 3 times: 1155
Hits needed to outdamage a successful driver charge: 8

Combuster charge: 613 + 184*5 = 1,533

And this doesn't even factor in something like getting an attack boosting orb, which grants the knight a 1.3 damage multiplier applied prior to subtracting defense.. which would magic up another 300 or so damage on top of boosting the 3071 damage mentioned before all the way to around 4000. There is a reason Bopp and I keep telling people to craft the drivers.

Awoogawooga
Thanks. Yeah, I have Dark

Thanks. Yeah, I have Dark Retribution.

Like I said, it didn't used to be a problem, but my current place has a slower internet connection, so it's become harder to dodge/shield for me. In fact, it sometimes seems impossible. I can't even get my sprites to use their powers.

Thanks for advice on Storm Driver vs Polaris. I don't have CTR on Storm Driver, so perhaps I'll do Polaris.

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Bopp
Polaris vs. Storm Driver

Thanks to various people for chiming in on magnus damage against turrets. I haven't tried it recently. They're definitely fun guns, and you should definitely give them a try. But if you're looking to bust turrets cheaply, you might as well use Storm Driver or Polaris for now.

Awoogawooga, you asked me about Polaris vs. Storm Driver. The best use of Storm Driver is to charge up, land the shot on the left or right side of the target (it's crucial to have auto-targeting off), and then the target dies. The best use of Polaris is to smother the target in regular shots, keeping it interrupted and/or shocked, until it dies. The first tactic might require me to dodge projectiles while charging. The second tactic might require me to dodge for an even longer time, but maybe at less risk per second. Ultimately both work. It's up to you. The first tactic is more fun for me.

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Holy-Nightmare
Neutralize them with Neutralizer charges

Catalyzers have a great flinch rate on the charge and high damage as well, you can basically lock down a turret with a chain of Catalyzer charge bullets.

Awoogawooga
Thanks all. I'm probably not

Thanks all.

I'm probably not gonna get a Catalyzer as far as being a sidearm for my Bomber. I want quick killing of Turrets.

That said, it's not that I don't gun on the side. I was a Gunner before I was a Bomber, so I've got a decent collection of guns and gun-centric gear as well.

I'm absolutely lost as far as being a Swordie though. I do have the Seerus Warhammer, but beyond that, I'm ill equipped as a Swordie.

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Bopp
now that you mention it

Warmaster Rocket Hammer is an extremely effective turret-killing weapon. Basically you run up to the turret, do the first two strokes of the combo, and then shield-cancel. The result is that you hit the turret four times (first stroke, second, second, second), doing enough damage to kill it (frequently). For the same reason WRH is also great at breaking minerals.

Of course, WRH requires you to approach turrets closely, so you might still prefer a gun.

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Holy-Nightmare
Don't discount the

Don't discount the Neutralizer

With a charge time that is typically less that a second and a base damage of 421 per charge bullet (502 at Max) you can spit out some pretty nice damage. This compiled with the perfect flinch rate means that you can shut down turrets and flinch any (flinchable) monster other than T3 Lumbers and Trojans.

Awoogawooga
@Bopp - Thank you for telling

@Bopp - Thank you for telling me about the shield cancel thing. Yeah, the hammer's nice. But alas, due to lag issues, I'm "forced" to consider using a gun. In my old place that had better connection, it was no trouble to get in close and just bomb the turrets.

@Holy-Nightmare - Ooooh, nice numbers. Actually, the reason I discount Catalyzer is because I'm also taking Arena into account. I lack the skill at the moment to use it to take out turrets quickly in such a hectic situation. If it's a matter of simply doing damage to mobs etc, I have my bombs.

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Fehzor

But why not discount neutralizer? It has no redeeming features and is basically just garbage. Everyone knows that.

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Nertgvv
Yeah, no

Actually.... If you know how to use catalyzer properly (I kinda do) its the best weapon for arena. If you manage to land a few orbs around a middle person in a mob or a guy at the front, keep spamming charges until your radius of your bullet hits the orb and it detonates. SUPREMELY satisfactory. Just don't use it against wolvers. When they burrow, the orbs dissapear D: (yes I have a volatile catalyzer)

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Bopp
after checking

After checking with my Callahan, I agree that its charge can definitely one-shot-kill howlitzers. So I expect Iron Slug to one-shot-kill all turrets.

Awoogawooga
@Nertgvv - Thanks for the

@Nertgvv - Thanks for the info. But as I said, as a Bomber, I'd rather just use my bombs for Arenas. I'd still get the AoE effect. It's the Turrets that can be a problem as their shots limit my mobility and lag makes it hard to dodge.

@Bopp - Thanks for the new info. I'm currently using Storm Driver as per your suggestion. Is it me or did guns get a damage buff? I was seldom able to 1-shot kill in the past, but I seem to be doing it more often now.

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Bopp
damage buff

I haven't retested gun damage since the gunner update. Many of the guns were adjusted, but I have not heard about adjustments to alchemers (other than full movement speed while charging).

Maybe you are better at landing the ricochets than you used to be? That is really the big difference between doing poor damage and thinking that alchemers are weak, versus doing huge damage and thinking that they're strong.

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Holy-Nightmare
Not just the weapon but the player.

The catalyzer is totally new and for those used to the old playstyle you still discount it as garbage or just don't want to put down your Acheron long enough to try to master a new mechanic. It's fun, interesting, and requires more brain activity than Brandish spamming.

Another factor you have to consider is that this player is a bomber. Dodging enemies while charging should be second nature to this guy. Charge oriented weapons (catalyzers and alchemers) are going to be much easier to use for a bomber. For those of you using GF and Flourish you don't worry about charges and weapons like Pulsars and Blasters are easier to use.

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Fehzor

But Holy-Nightmare, why would I put down my acheron to use some sort of garbage handgun when I can instead just charge up my acheron and kill them? I mean I'd much rather just kill them than mess around flinching them and all of that business and the catalyzers are pretty much just trash to begin with, regardless of how much time I've spent with them before and after some update.

And wouldn't having a weapon that doesn't rely on a charge attack be considered a positive for bombers? So that they don't necessarily have to charge all the time?

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Holy-Nightmare
@ Fehzor

There comes a point where Brandish spamming gets boring (at least to me), if it keeps you entertained feel free to continue.

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Fehzor

Sure but I've already used and enjoyed the catalyzers, so why wouldn't I go back to being effective most of the time? Being effective is at least as fun as being completely dysfunctional.

Awoogawooga
@Fehzor - "But

@Fehzor - "But Holy-Nightmare, why would I put down my acheron to use some sort of garbage handgun when I can instead just charge up my acheron and kill them?"

As a Bomber, my answer for that is that it's much more satisfying for a BOOM! :D

That said, yeah, I'm looking for something "efficient" ie One-Shotty. I've been using Alchemers for that purpose lately. So thanks for all the advice guys.

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Halandin
I'm a bomber, and I've tried

I'm a bomber, and I've tried a mega tundrus for one-shotting puppies and polyps, which it often does if I'm not in a full party or have enough gun damage bonuses. But, I agree with Fehzor, having a weapon that does not rely on charging as a utility weapon is a perk for a bomber. Sure, Holy-Nightmare said, as a bomber I'm probably more used to dodging while charging while not using a shield, but some enemies or situations are hard to deal with with just charging weapons.

I can more quickly pop off a pulsar shot then shield while engaging several turrets at once than I can charge up my tundrus to hit each one, and not always sure of KOs either. Tundrus doesn't have quite as much range I think, and if I have the space and the time to charge something, I"ll just charge a bomb and place it at max range from the turret. Kats, fiends, "bullet hells" like those side paths in the clockworks with all the puppies and spike traps, or the gun puppy danger room, all can use a weapon that can more quickly acquire and send off at least a distracting shot. I think pulsars are the only line of guns that can easily interrupt at longer range without charging, which is why I usually take one of those for my utility gun when going (nearly) full bomber.

P.S. Hey Awooga, this is Hareth on a forums account. Cya in-game!

Awoogawooga
@Halandin - Holy guacomole, I

@Halandin - Holy guacomole, I thought everyone on my friends list was gone. Well, except Poopsie. Glad to see ya, hope we meet up. Also, thanks for the advice. Do you go Supernova or Polaris?

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Halandin
I've currently got a

I've currently got a gigawatt, been my sidearm for about forever, and recently made a blazing pulsar for shock levels. Haven't tried the normal damage line. (I stuck with 4* due to the rarity of radiants and the need to get 5* fully heated bombs). The shock tics of the polaris line are nice to help interrupt on puppies, kats, and fiends, but I felt the need for another gun I could use on shock levels more easily, especially ones with quicksilvers.