Battle Sprites and other updates

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Happyapathy
Leveling/Heating, and addressing long time issues?

One thing that REALLY bothers me about the past updates is that they don't really give the older veteran players new heights to aim for that actually have meaning (not just getting more crowns to buy embellishments), you may add a whole lot of new levels and missions but all that heat I'm getting from them is just being wasted either on nothing or just something I brought along for the sake of having something to heat up (*cough*Iron Slug*cough).

While I would have preferred new weapons (and I still hope there will be some in the near future) will sprites be something we will be able to improve through usage, or will it just be a one time fee to get one and any improvements from there are purely visual? The lack of new weapons/gear is acting much like a level cap for the traditional leveling system of RPG games and I would really like to have something that I can actually actively work on that contributes to my character's abilities, not just appearance.

What about the OTHER issues?

There's no way I can really demand an answer but there are many MANY things people have been asking/suggesting/PLEADING to be done for so, so long but you (the development team) have been ignoring to do anything about such as:

1. Fixing the Sudaruska's stun issues and re-balancing the Trokia line overall (make it at least a viable/sensible choice for Lockdown matches)

2. Completing the Spur sword line with a 5* version (Fixed what I said earlier)

3. Changing the mechanics of certain Normal Damage type weapons (ex. Big Angry Bomb, Iron Slug, Supernova) to make them useful instead of been pieces of junk no one uses except for kicks

4. Balancing the Fearless Rigadoon and Furious Flamberge to be on par with the Final Flourish and Barbarous Thorn Blade

5. Altering the duplicate textures used on the Gunslinger Hat line of helmets

6. Relaxing the accessory limits of certain helms and armor that really don't make sense from any viewpoint, whether it be...

...realism (name me one good reason Gunslinger Armor shouldn't be allowed Badges or Bomb Bandoleers? Looks fine to me in Spiral Spy)
...gameplay (what? Does dressing oddly give an unfair advantage somehow?)
...business (more accessory slots = more people buying accessories = more profit for OOO)

Most of these issues have been around since the launch of SK or at least for the year and a half that I've been around and are mostly just balancing or aesthetic problems which shouldn't be that hard to deal with. Adding new content is great but that doesn't make ignoring old issues okay. I have enough faith in SK and its potential to come back after an 8 month absence but the continued refusal to fix lingering issues really irks me and many players I have met with agree with me.

While we (the players) appreciate the time and effort you take to bring us new content to enjoy, we would just as much appreciate that you listen to us when we say there is a problem that needs fixing.

I've long waited for some sort of response from the developers about these issues and have yet to see so much as a word about addressing them, it would really be encouraging if you could give at the least a recognition of what I've said here, let alone a promise to look into rectifying them.

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Luguiru

Wraith is best Spiralmon.

Portrait de Fallconn
Fallconn
FALCON PUNCH!

As long as these Pokemon/Cyber-Elves don't interfere or change the way I play LD, I is happeh.

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Lezlyblaze
o_O

i did not read all the other posts but, what if we want to switch sprites?? and will sprites b in pvp??

Portrait de Lskyx
Lskyx
There is no way it can be PvP

Too much. Mah brain wud horrt

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Fehzor

1. Fixing the Sudaruska's stun issues and re-balancing the Trokia line overall (make it at least a viable/sensible choice for Lockdown matches)

Troika line is somewhat balanced, and changes for lockdown are not a good idea. Troika line *could* use a moderate damage buff and slight speed reduction, but then they could also just release THE THUNDER and make that whole update one large thing... it has been hinted at, after all.

2. Completing the Cutter sword line with a 5* version

Presuming that you are aware of the item known as "Dread Venom Striker" and instead meant "winmillion"- Winmillion will be HARD to balance, and I'd honestly have to say that the devs should include it in with a massive weapons update sooner or later. And besides, you don't know that they won't.

Personally, I would love this as an update though. A lot.

3. Changing the mechanics of certain Normal Damage type weapons (ex. Big Angry Bomb, Iron Slug, Supernova) to make them useful instead of been pieces of junk no one uses except for kicks

Iron slug is already signed up for a buff in the far future.

You know, just like-

"When the MEWKAT broke the "First Seal," the first, or "Tortodrone" cried with a voice of thunder--"COME." Nick had no need to "come" for he was already there. When he appeared, Nick says--"And I saw, and behold a GOLDEN TROJAN; and he that sat on him had a ban stick; and a super brawl crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And so it was that the Iron Slug was given a buff of truly biblical proportions."

As for the rest of the normal weapons, most are perfectly viable. Of those that you name- Supernova is absolutely fine due to the fact that it lacks shock and is thus more predictable and more party friendly than Polaris and BAB has already been buffed, go read what Zeddy writes in the Arsenal.

4. Balancing the Fearless Rigadoon and Furious Flamberge to be on par with the Final Flourish and Barbarous Thorn Blade

This is needed, but I feel that it can wait. Rigadoon and Flamberg lines are underpowered yes, but balancing them would require time and effort, and they are perfectly usable as it is.

5. Altering the duplicate textures used on the Gunslinger Hat line of helmets

This can wait, and isn't harming anyone. It would be nice yes, but more promotions to keep CE prices low so that I can be greedy would also be nice.

6. Relaxing the accessory limits of certain helms and armor that really don't make sense from any viewpoint, whether it be...

This is worthwhile, but even so- the devs removed them for a reason. Perhaps there will be something created eventually that will mess with the graphics? Even so, it'd be good of them to look at.

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Byas
Nick, could you please tell

Nick, could you please tell me if they will act like "specialized gear" or there will be a system completely different from the knights about these skills? (ex: I can use a gun, sword and bomb even when I'm using a bomber set, although using bombs will be more effective; Will the sprites act like that and have the capability to learn all skills but only master some?).

And a request/suggestion: Could you guys show some more info on how they change both in appearance and on status depending on how we raise them before launching the update? it's just that I (and probably some other knights) wanna know more about the sprite's potential so we can go planning for when the update kicks in.

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Xenonguard
:]

I personally think, that contrary to the pets being a sword-gun-bomb thing, I think it's more like this.

Drakon-Strikers: Extra Damage output. In Nick's words, "It's ideal for anyone who favors head-on combat".

Seraphynx-Guardian: Defends party members. Obviously a Guardian thing.

Maskeraith-Recon: "...a perfect choice for those that like to hide in the shadows or cripple their foes before delivering the final blow". Similarly to the Seraphynx, it even does the same thing as recons are meant to. Cripple enemies with a disruption field before killing them.

Note: I am not suggesting that they be added to LD. That would just unbalance things even further than they already are.

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Skyguarder
OOO has done a great job

Turning hateful things into good ones.

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Deltikon
Nice.

Just a few questions though:

- Now that we'll have even more firepower (literally to some players), will all monsters be buffed, specially the weak ones and/or on Tier 3 at least? Anyone good enough (doesn't take much really) could do a glass cannon run and still not die once.

- I saw it would take a slot, but my doubt remains if it will have a specific slot or not? If so, will it require a slot unlocker?

- Will the sprites require energy on any sort of form? If so, that's a serious turn-off for me.

- Just like Happyapathy mentioned (you meant the spur line btw), will you fix the arsenal balancing issues? Also to addup, if so, will you make the defensive armors more valuable? A bit more value to defense would be nice, specially with a possible monster buffing.

- Since you mentioned about us being able to give our soon-to-be "pets" new names, will we be able to do the same with our equipment/descriptions (just like on TF2, I want to rename my Callahan to something more appropriate, with a witty desc.)?

- Small note, do they get the same personal colour as the knight character itself? That would be nice.

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Mzculet
Also known as Pets?

Just wondering...Robot pets? or Nature pets?

Portrait de Cobalt
Cobalt
I'm just wondering... Are

I'm just wondering... Are these going to be free? From what I read in the main post, it sounds like it.

But, it's just nice to know for sure.

Portrait de Clwnbaby
Clwnbaby
still no core.......................

All i see is more add-on content that isn' the core. OPEN THE CORE!

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Vbunny

I'm sure my rival @njthug will choose the starter that's the polar opposite of mine... also I demand a rabbity pet! pretty please?

Portrait de Hpland
Hpland
Just great

I had 10 months to decide my new starter for Pokemon Gen 6 and now I also have to decide what starter sprite I am going to use. Thanks three rings for making my life hard. All jokes aside now, I really like the look of this new system and I hope it can make the game more enjoying and difficult.

Points/ Questions
1. Will there be prestige missions related to the sprite would be good.
2.Do they gain levels like the night gains heat and the cap out at level 10.
3. Will the customization options have any affect on the sprites health/attack power and are not purely cosmetic.

Thanks three rings for telling us about this awesome new content.

Portrait de Theopholis
Theopholis
No pets for noobs?

@Mtax: "If you ask me, they absbsolutly SHOULDN'T be avaible for the newbies"

That's a really tough call. On one hand, it would be great to give the advanced players something of their own, something to look forward to and work with that pushed the game farther and helped to stretch out the content. But it's a good way to draw new players in as well, and potentially for OOO to make some money off players who want better Sprites right away.

Also, giving the newer players access to everything right away means that they have nothing new to look forward to, and might quit playing. At the same time, a different type of player might quit because they're tired of working towards something too far off.

Personally I think they should be a high-tier 2 addition. Starting about where 3* equipment would.

Tier: ..1... 2... 3
Equip: 0 1 2 3 4 5
Pet:............ 1 2 3 4 5

That would give something for new players to look forward to within a week or so (or a few days for fast advancers), but also give the 5* players something to work towards. Something beyond 5* gear–which most advanced players have quite a few sets of, because they don't have anything else to work on. In order to do this, I suppose a knight much need a certain gear certification before upgrading their Sprites.

It would be difficult to balance this and make it work with the game of course. But it would nice to see the Sprites extending the game beyond the 5* limits. We really do need content that is more difficult to play to go along with this. And not just an increase in the number and strength of enemies like in the shadow lairs. Stratigically-harder content. Stuff that makes players think.

tl;dr Pets should start in tier 2.

EDIT: Also, now I need to rework my costume to match the pet I pick. Oh dear.

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Fehzor

That was my other point that I forgot and left out, Theopholis. Thank you for making it-

What kinds of things will stop the gap between the beggar-like T1/2 players and the illuminati-like T3/4 players from widening? If pets get better- and they should/will, then what will stop the gap from further splitting the playerbase in two?

And less seriously- What would I have to do to get Missile from Ghost Trick to follow me around and swap objects?

Portrait de Leafblader
Leafblader
MOO!

Like most other people said you guys should make the game harder.
One suggestion.
Unerf wolvers and retrodes.

Portrait de Acid-Snow-Wiki
Acid-Snow-Wiki
Hmm

Post 69: If a Battle Sprite mates with a Lost Sprite, do you get a Lost Battle?

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Laylla
free hugs!

Post below the 69th post:
I wonder if I'd able to abuse them in any way...

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Owlert
Pets have always seemed

Pets have always seemed cluttered and unbalanced (OP or UP) in games, and I prefer being by myself in my massacres. Oh well, I guess I'l get over it and go without one or pick one that works as my footstool. Time to dissect everything Nick said, and pester him with questions and concerns about the future additions.
_______________

E-Class Battle sprites were originally small, mechanical, AI-driven field companions that aided the Spiral Knights in planetary reconnaissance. That was before the crash landing on Cradle. Sprites collected from the crash within the Clockworks appear to be reacting to the Core's energy signal

Great, looks like the standard go deeper and get stronger. Doesn't look like these are too lore rich, but nothing in Spiral Knights is anyway considering all we have are a couple paragraphs at most for the most in-depth storylines.

changing dramatically based on their environment

Hmm, that looks new in theory. I can't think of anything the players have in their arsenal currently that does that, and I'm lost for good ideas on how pets could do it. I hope nothing like an entire status of a pet changing, as the inner role player in me enjoys having one status be my class archetype and I stick with it. It looks like I don't have to worry about that due to Drakon only being associated with fire. Shock one, please?

improving their capabilities even as they remain loyal to their primary directive to support Knights in exploration and discovery.

A possible new form of progressing, hopefully not grindy though. Nothing much to say on this.

Battle Sprites are new combat companions that all Spiral Knights can acquire. Each Battle Sprite has a selection of skills that can be used by the player when the Sprite is equipped. Skills range from direct attacks to party buffs and monster debuffs.

Combat companions? Yeah, pets.

DPS and support, yay. Looks like I'll be finding the most flashy and expensive support one avaliable and beating the crap out of the mobs while it sits back and casts a buff every now and then.

Battle Sprites will continue to level up as you use them. As a sprite levels up they evolve, become more powerful, and develop new skills. Players can feed materials to the Sprites for faster leveling and control the abilities they develop.

Leveing up? Cool. Material sink? Even better! Hopefully it's a continuous one though; I'd like to actually have a market for materials rather than having them being near useless junk that infinitely builds up since the chance of it selling to the few that actually buy materials aren't worth the auction house listing fee.

We hope that Sprites will be fun, providing a new experience in the game. They are also intended to provide players with the ability to specialize their role in a party.

Probably my favorite part of this whole post. Currently, the only roles Spiral Knights PvE has is in FSC with the shivermist and blitz duo. I'm extremely excited that OOO is looking to specialize roles more and maybe add their version of the holy trinity (Of course replacing healers with support) to the game; however, current content has no use. I hope this means we'll be getting harder content that is more favorable to a party with roles with great synergy.

The choices you make for your Sprite will act like a class for your Knight, augmenting your choice of weapons and armor.

Mixed feelings due to conflicts about player freedom and role specialization. Hopefully it's balanced at the least, and there will be only additions to my possible arsenal rather than limiting your choices.

For example, you may choose a Sprite that deals direct damage with attack enhancements or instead choose a Sprite that bolsters your parties defenses.

DPS, defense, or offensive support it looks like so far. No problems, but maybe a possible stealth addition as well?

Once the Battle Sprites are available, a new series of rank missions will be added for players as soon as they reach Haven. These missions will teach players about Battle Sprites and allow them to try out each of the three starter sprites before ultimately choosing one to keep.

Missions. Less clockworks. -___-

Available after rescue camp is nice to newbies and I don't see a problem with it. Three starter sprites. Great, this means that veterans wont be stuck walking with the same battle sprite as that guy over there in proto gear. Always good for e-peens. Also, this means there will be more! Incoming huge costs and a promo methinks?

Of course, these new rank missions will be playable by any player who has already surpassed those early ranks, rewarding you with a Sprite to keep just like new players.

Yay! I'm also noting the lack of any payment requirement like expansion missions. Always good.

Sprites will be a significant part of the Haven Garrison's Laboratory.

Mmmk

The first three Battle Sprites represent three different play-styles. While each has at least one skill that serves as direct damage, they each offer different play-style options:

Role specialization, yay! Hopefully more support and stealth roles too though. :x

The smoldering Drakon resembles a dragon and delivers powerful, fiery blasts to your foes. It's ideal for anyone who favors head-on combat.

Yay, the good old fashioned DPS. I probably wont be using this one, but I think it's going to be the most popular choice as it favors the glass cannon route this game rewards.

The divine Seraphynx resembles an angelic cat-like creature and uses its luminous powers to defend the party from attacks. It's a fine choice for knights who wish to aid their fellow party members.

Defending the party from attacks... ok. So we got ourselves the closest thing to a tank. Will it die? Is the defense an AoE like Lockdown's guardian shield, based on line of sight where the pet has to be between me and the baddie, or just a defense buff that makes us take less? How the heck does this thing work!?!

The shadowy Maskeraith resembles a masked phantom and uses its toxic powers to debilitate enemies. This devious sprite is a perfect choice for those that like to hide in the shadows or cripple their foes before delivering the final blow.

Debuffer is all? Got me excited with the part of hiding in the shadows, but it doesn't look like it will be as awesome as being a recon in the clockworks. Seems nice and all, if balanced. Poison isn't exactly the top choice for status infliction.

Battle sprites are still in development with a planned release date in the first half of the year. Keep an eye on these forums for more info!

Meh :x Could be as late as June, but it's good to see they aren't rushing at least.

You will ultimately be able to own and raise more than one sprite, though your first selection is an important one.

Yay! Hopefully anything your first selection decides isn't completely unchangeable.

You can name your sprite and customize certain aspects of its appearance. The promotional images are just one example of the final form of the three sprites.

Awesome.

The use of sprites in the Coliseum is still up for debate, though we're only going to include them where it makes sense (not Blast Network).

Giving 100% guarantee no blast network, but still not referring to PvP as Lockdown. Interesting, but I'd rather think of facts rather than speculation and conspiracy based on something that might just have been an oversight while typing. As far as sprites in Lockdown, I don't really care about Lockdown, but I don't see how adding sprites could make it any worse than it already is.

Sprites use their skills when you want them to, via a key press.

*Sigh* I was just getting used to all my new controls too. I can always unmap my vials though, who uses those anyway?

Sprites will be equipped similarly to how other equip-able items are implemented. Once you complete the rank missions dedicated to introducing them, you will be able to equip one.

No battle sprite upgrade slot for 9001 CE that lasts 30 days? :| Come on Nick, what's the hidden fee in all of this?

No, everyone can name their sprite Sephiroth.

<3 +1,000,001

Can't say at this time but you'll know more when we do our individual spotlights on each sprite some time in the future.

MOAR >:O

Portrait de Omnizoa
Omnizoa
Spiralmon

I call dibs on Bulbasaur, hes going to throw all mah vials now. Will we be able to find tms in the red boxes and teach them special moves? U_U

Portrait de Zeddy
Zeddy
@Acid-Snow

You get a Sprite Sprite.

Portrait de Hungran
Hungran
WTB PRISMATIC TOUPEE

GOOD WORK OOO!

+1 SK

P.S. I'd rather they have no affect on Lockdown

Portrait de Bulby
Bulby

Well, they went and did it. =_=

Still, this could possibly bring more of them pokemon folks to the table; which more people for me to fight in LD. >:]

Portrait de Sketman
Sketman
Pokemon X and Y released!

Hmmm.... The new pokemon game was announced a day before battle sprites...
OOO HAS BEEN ABSORBED BY NINTENDO!!!11!!
soon the slots reserved for vials will become slots reserved for pokeballs...
___
On a more serious note, how would the battle sprites be obtained? By catching it in the wild? Or is it breeded in the Garrison Lab...

Portrait de Addisond
Addisond
Eh...

I'd rather have seen you guys fix the problems we still have and add more content, but eh, it's your game. The whole "abilities" thing is FAR, FAR better than AI pets, but still... it's just a regular RPG thing, ya know? I don't want to play runescape with adorable models, the gameplay has to actually be there. And as for the "pokemon" thing, this doesn't sound anything like what the actual pokemon scene is like. There's adventure pokemon and then there's competitive pokemon. One is pushing buttons mindlessly while raising a "party" (though anyone who knows ANYTHING about pokemon will tell you that more than one or two pokes for adventure is a bad idea). The other is a really, really hard strategy game. Guess which one has more of a retainable audience?

Portrait de Lukadroid
Lukadroid
Attack on key press? PVP?

I think that's a little too much. I personally think that letting the sprites in the PVP will take away from the whole aspect of PVP. I'll have no interest in playing it then.

Portrait de Lukadroid
Lukadroid
Attack on key press? PVP?

@Ice-- and I'm not being 'negative' I'm just saying what will probably happen.

Portrait de Zeddy
Zeddy

For what it's worth, I'd like these things to make it into Lockdown. The game is pretty much stagnant with nobody doing anything except for cloning up in the same armour, rolling the same UVs on the same swords and strafing like derps.

This could be exactly what's needed to make things interesting.

Portrait de Klipik
Klipik
I am psychic? O_O Yay,

I am psychic? O_O

Yay, activateable abilities! More skill-based combat! :D

*thinks about autoaim dragons and is suddenly sad D:*

I hope that^ doesn't happen. Aside from that, though, sounds like a good update. And @Nick, I assume you can't tell us about what else is planned for the Lab? ;)

EDIT/P.S: Will there be more than 3 sprites? Will they be upgradeable?

Portrait de Fehzor
Fehzor

Probably my favorite part of this whole post. Currently, the only roles Spiral Knights PvE has is in FSC with the shivermist and blitz duo. I'm extremely excited that OOO is looking to specialize roles more and maybe add their version of the holy trinity (Of course replacing healers with support) to the game; however, current content has no use. I hope this means we'll be getting harder content that is more favorable to a party with roles with great synergy.

Which is why I'm scared of this update. Right now, I can decide what I want to be, how I want to specialize to help the random players that I play alongside. I have all the gear that I need to be a bomber, gunner, swordy, support, guardian, whatever. Being forced to play in any specific way by these things worries me. The game is repetitive enough without having to always play to one style; and what if I have a friend like Zeddy that can't just go from being a bombing offense/support player to fit my needs? I wouldn't be able to fully go alongside him.

And there are more strategies than just the shiver+blitz, they just aren't common. Bombers are mostly support; swordies are mostly offense; reliance on other players doesn't work for solo play, there are tons of specialized ways to play. You've just got to craft the stuff and practice a bit.

Portrait de Lukadroid
Lukadroid
^

And you think people won't have excessive use of the same pets in Lockdown?

Portrait de Zeddy
Zeddy
^

It's at least something different happening.

Portrait de Amaki
Amaki
Only one major concern at this point ...

A very, very large number of names have already been taken, and if Battle Sprite names cannot be repeated (which is what I'm assuming) then there may be a problem. That could probably be fixed by allowing numerals in Battle Sprite names, though.

Otherwise truly excited that OOO has managed to get this idea working, even if I don't want to wait until June.

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Psychodestroyer
Portrait de Sweet-Hope
Sweet-Hope

Actually pets in LD wouldnt be a trouble if everyone played lockdown as how would be... i mean like Team and no skolver clones who want just to get the most damage possible in score..

So basically there will be a few people with defensive sprites since they would be playing lockdown as how must be. but since the skolver clones just want damage pretty sure they will get the dragon to get more damage. idk about the wraith but i guess poison debuff would be another option since they would get more damage in their hits and would make the enemie unable to run back for health.

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Bluearceus
Pokemon :D

Now I has another excuse for loving pokemon <3

Portrait de Amaki
Amaki
Thank you, Psycho ...

... for linking me to something I already read and was attempting to address.

Portrait de Chainguy
Chainguy
Oh my god, this is gonna be

Oh my god, this is gonna be awesome.

If OOO makes other types then the 3 starters, i would want...

A OGRE!

Portrait de Klipik
Klipik
sure.

Just take all the Dungeon Defenders pets, why don't you. I want a little flying TF2 medic.

Portrait de Chainguy
Chainguy
:(

:(

Portrait de Mzculet
Mzculet
---

Side note: Will this be a Crown or Ce sink?
By the way, By the time it took The Developers to finally release the Guild hall updates I'm guessing it would also take that time for them to release this new *BIG* Update So don't get your hopes up Quite yet

Portrait de Njthug
Njthug
...

Nick this better not affect my playing style Arrow keys Z and X (For Swoding and shield) <69 simple controls = best controls <69

Portrait de Jashaltris
Jashaltris
Not so much Pokemon...

This is more remenicient of Phantasy Star MAGs. Of course, OOO being owned by Sega, the logical leap to a generalization that they peaked over to PSO2 and saw a good idea that players loved through the years is not very difficult to make. Now all you have to do is give our little battle sprites a little super move they can perform maybe once per floor (at the expense of a % of collected heat possibly?) and we'll have a true copy-and-paste Spiral Knights Photon Blast to complete the metaphor.

I wonder now if the evolution will have elemental branching off if you could "feed" them materials to have them upgrade. (like changing debuffs from poison) or getting the dragon to remove that annoying layer of skin and scales so I can install a shadow-modulator on it to breath undiluted umbra on my opponents or plasticize it full of jelly to support spiky attachments. I can't say much for defense, moar defense is more defense and making it better against some and worse against others doesn't work for it as well as it does for offense.

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Doctorspacebar

Personally, I'm hoping one of them is a floating robot that can do stuff like "locking on" to enemies (giving them a defense debuff) and disabling status resistances (so I can Freeze a Layoafer... or a Skolver).

However, I'm hoping they don't make certain weapons obsolete; I like my Electron Vortex and I like all five of my Mist Bombs.

Knight-Of-India
how much time

nick, the idea looks great but can u give us some time say in which month?

Knight-Of-India
when will the pets come out?(

when will the pets come out?( a specific date or at least a month) and also you might have to change the names of those creatures in the second level of fsc since the last time i checked their names were same as those of that of your battle sprites. if u didn't understand what i said i mean those creatures we had to rescue in the second level and bring them to the fountain

Portrait de Traevelliath
Traevelliath

@Knight-Of-India: Nick said within the first half of the year.

Also, the sprites in FSC don't have names. Maybe at most the guy who talks to you MIGHT have a name, but I don't think so.

Portrait de Mzculet
Mzculet
free hugs

First half of the year..
So match or July? That's 2-4 months from now. (Correct me if I'm wrong)