April 3 Update - Discussion

I'm not a fan of a lot of things that came with this update.

Some are just not user friendly. Undroppable vitapods, not being able to see your teammates' health. Or even their name. When in PvP the chat even covers some of your team!

I also don't like that I have to break my neck to see how much health I have left. :/

The biggest disappointment is at the end of each mission. When my Knight closes his fist and balances a bomb over his shoulder without touching it. Sure it looks cool for Swordsmen and Gunners. But what about me? Have I been forgotten? Neglected?

Haven has never been so dull... I just... I'm just less enthusiastic about this game now.

/node/78471

Two weeks. Two weeks since the update, no response. Why not? Do they think we're going to let this blow over? If your philosophy for this is "if we ignore it, it'll just go away, they'll get tired of complaining", I assure you it will catch up to you in the long run. Ignoring problems is no way to run a game, or a company. We would like it if you fixed the problems. You don't need to revert the whole thing, just... fix it. Make it work again. Make it as good as it was before, if not better.

On second thought, at this point, fixing the problems is not even the most important issue. It's that OOO has not said a single word addressing the feedback, beside Eury's "I'm making a tally". Can we have something other than that? An explanation as to why you made this decision? A "we're aware of the problems and are working on a solution?" A "We understand your concerns, but we're not changing it and here's why"? Even if you don't change anything in the end, ignoring a good portion of the community completely is a bad idea. A silent developer is never a good thing. Give us something.

I check this thread every day waiting for a response.

@Klipik

Agreed.

At Three Rings, I've said some mean things in the past. Even if they don't match up to what others have said about the game. On the whole, I don't really think those things...mood swings are a powerful thing...sometimes...

They ALREADY PATCHED after this, ergo this update has no purpose.

THIS THREAD IS OBSOLETE

@Batabii

Nope. This thread is for discussing the UI update. The other patch notes thread is for the compounds and swarm enemies.

@Batabii:
Get off the forums you pessimist.
This thread is still VALID, until Eurydice come and lock it....

I've come to learn that OOO promises and statements don't mean all that much...

This happens to many games when they start flourashing and have a good casual base. They don't need us passionate/critisizing to keep their incomes. Chances that the outcome of losing us will be bad is also small.

Basically this all comes down to how OOO's mentality is. If they really decided to just ignore it and wait till people accept it, then that is the kind of development team they are and nothing u can do aside from accept it, keep playing or move on.

But yeah there's enough games that could replace spiral Knights for me so deciding with the latter is easy to me. But it does kind of suck i guess.

It's sad not seeing a single statement of OOO (I don't mean GMs!) here...

...oh where, oh where could they be? Because it sure as hell seems like not a single representative of OOO is anywhere within ten miles of their consumers since the update.

Moving on. I've gotten used to most of the new, ah hem, "features," but there are still some legos that I keep stepping on.

Aside from bugs, my main complaints with the update are centered around the disaster that is the HP bar. The location of your own and the way your party members' are shown are things I still have not adjusted to, and frankly, I doubt I will.

Energy is another thing. We can't see it, and there are two "energetic knights" in Haven that talk about how important energy is and how CONVENIENT it is that it's ALWAYS DISPLAYED. Then there's the whole tabbing thing, which honestly seems like a bug to me, but one that OOO doesn't seem to care about. The wording of the box that pops up implies that you should still be able to tab someone even while on the elevator, but as everyone who's played with someone that ran out of energy can attest, it's literally impossible to do jack at that point. And since energy's not displayed anymore, you can be running around the clockworks and not realize you're out until you make the mistake of stepping on the elevator. Sure, it shows up when you're actually deciding to go down or to "quit" (excellent wording there, truly), but it does diddly squat by that point.

And my last major problem with the update is the lack of colors in Haven and on the minimap. Honestly... I can't see any reason for changing that, except for the sake of change, which is, frankly, not a good enough reason to justify changing ALL the things! all at the same time.

A minor complaint I have is not being able to see what weapon I have equipped at the moment, but at least it's easier to work around than anything else is.

---------

A problem that a lot of free-to-play games has is the release of under-developed/tested content. OOO, you don't have to throw garbage at us. I think I can speak for most of the community when I say that we'd rather you keep us updated and in the loop about new things to look forward to, rather than releasing junk like this, that hasn't been tested thoroughly. (Or at all. The "test" servers seem much more like they should have been called "preview" servers, from what I can tell.) There will always be whiners, and trolls, and haters, and impatient people. But really, at the end of the day, it'd just be awesome if you would communicate. Communication is, after all, the key to ANY successful relationship, even that between producers and consumers.

@Sroell - They said one thing.

@Klipik - Because that's so relevant to the main problems here.

Been a while now since the update.
ooo, please fix the movement bug that now faces me the wrong way.
Your game has become very difficult to play.
Oh, and fix all that you broke in the UI.

I like it

I think the new ui looks futeristic and cool and makes it a lot easier to play

I get the impression that the people who enjoy the new update are "newer to the game" and perhaps typically younger and are unable to provide many specific points of improvement that the new UI had over the classic UI.

Apart from the weapon wheel, there's no way to tell what weapon you have equipped outside of looking at your hand. That doesn't seem that problematic, but when holding a vial/pot or shielding it can be difficult/impossible to see which weapon you're going to be holding when you go back to normal.

Wait!
Why didn't the Wiki get a makeover too?
It looks all dusty and proper.
Kinda reminiscent of an old western, modernized.
Ring any bells Nick?

Try the entire inventory, social, recipe, loadout, and playercard tabs. Or about 60% of the in-game UI.

In my opinion if you got something against the new UI, and really want it to change, you're not really helping you're statement/principal if you are still playing the game. You're actually encouraging the exact opposite.

If OOO wasn't the way it is, as in only listening when it would affect their income, then i'd still be playing personally. But seeing as they don't have any appreciation for their fans, and how they don't care f0r listening to reasonable fans who really love(d) their work, I think I lost my respect for them.

I'm just expressing my thoughts, do whatever ya like.

I never paid, so I'm not helping or hurting them either way. :P

You need to ask yourself, why does the f2p mechanic work in the first place? There's many reasons but one of the reasons is activity and the attractiveness that comes from the activity.

You're helping the game to stay alive and attractive together with the other peeps who think the way you do. The new players or generally find guys like you to team up with, enjoy the game, and pour money. So while you didn't pay, unconsciously you're helping OOO to keep the game attractive for others to pay.

Anyway i'm just being realistic. I have no belongings in convincing people to stop playing. Just arguing the point of playing and not paying = not supporting the game. Whether you agree or not is not my concern

What have you done to my precious Clockworks??

Honestly, the new UI is nice and flashy, but it gets in the way more than anything, and feels.... fake. Really fake.
Spiral Knights was classy because it was simple, and it was okay with that.
What happened, guys?
I didn't have a problem with the old UI. It was perfect as-is. Besides, now the nostalgia factor is down the tubes. :/

Maybe we can tone down the "style" and get back to practicality, hm?

People who like the UI probably don't like it as much as the people who hate it hate it. I have seen dramatically decreased activity among people I know since the UI update, and it's basically killed my veteran guild of 1.5 years.

In short, while there might be mixed feelings about this update, on the whole an update that half the community kind of likes and the other half hates to the point of playing less is probably not a good move.

"This isn't working"
-Gabe Newell, on the new UI

I want to see my bloody mist and crowns at all times. I don't want to press I to open up my inventory just to see something I like to glance at constantly. I'm getting tired of this and it's getting more annoying seeing how much I spend.

I think that I may end up just using my mist to craft until something changes.

What's up with the mouse changing location itself? Please give an option to disable it, it's really annoying, as it happens even, when I'm browsing and the game is in the background.

A quote from An article about the recent EA disaster, SIMcity:

"Silence is a powerful weapon in the industry," Walker wrote. "The mad truth is, when it comes to gaming controversies, if you ignore it it will go away. This article is a fairly futile attempt to not let it, and to make sure our readers know that EA and Maxis never spoke to us, never responded to any of our questions, and never sent so much as a statement."

So there ya have it guys. Good to know OOO uses methods similar to other great companies

How much longer they are going to be in silence, because I don't think these complains would end soon.

The mad truth is, when it comes to gaming controversies, if you ignore it it will go away.

I assume that the last it of the sentence means the player base.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/04/22/the-power-of-silence-why-the…

@autofire in the case of EA's game, they sold ~million of copies of a defective game. Your comment about the player base going away is not so much a problem because they got their money from the burst of early buyers and use silence as a PR tactic perhaps after analysis that costs out weights the benefit (cost of fixing their game vs more sales of a game which already has a defective stigma/press).

If related to SK, there was a heyday in sk during its early time of release perhaps reaching a peak during steam release. Now is the silence from OOO because they already looked at the cost benefit analysis and knows this game is not worth investing more resources into. Or does OOO's ignore the player base and not want to use resources on high priority, core issues/problems.

The mad truth is, when it comes to gaming controversies, if you ignore it it will go away

Diablo III launch epic fail will never go away in Blizzard history...

Never

In Sim City's case, all the playerbase did go away. Even after they reenabled cheetah mode and kind of fixed the servers. Because the game itself turned out to not be very good anyway.

I guess they should change the place of the health. And it shouldn't appear in haven.
Seriously guys, what are you doing with this game? The old UI was perfect the way it was, why change it?!

I barely play this game now, the UI it's just horrible. I play since 2011, and i must say that the UI worked fine till the freaking day you decided to change it.
I guess I must find another game to play, this is just, not working anymore.
Also, the debuffs are getting crappy and crappy every day, first the wolvers, then the fiends. It was cool to have some dificulty in the game, but now.. pff

Well, if the comunity of the game is talking it's because we love this game, and want it to be a fun thing to play, with its challenges.
And not a noob friendly game, that it's super mainstream, I mean, Spiral Knights it's that game with its unmistakable design, and its distinctive dificulty, isn't it?

OOO, you should listen more the players, and get this fixed.

I wish we knew if OOO was reading this thread. Do we need to submit support tickets? Do we need to create separate threads? Do we need to remind them on every future release thread?

Can we has response plz. This problem hasn't gone away yet...

This thread musn't die ;) Some of the problems are not solved and no ANSWER is given.

@Klipik:
25 days passed with no valid reply, guess the hope is lost.
All the whining and complains went in vain, same thing happened with RSS....
/sobs..

@ Kornflake
You can bet your last crown or unit of CE that OOO was reading this thread and every other thread. You can bet they play the game and interact with users too. Just because we don't know the user names they might be doing it with doesn't mean they aren't here. They are probably posting on the forum too. If you think about it, no one could work on and develop a game if they don't play it and have no idea what is going on with it. Them not reacting to us or answering us doesn't mean they aren't here or listening to us. If you want to be sure they hear you; write what you have to say in a logical, appropriate manner that isn't insulting to them and other users, put that statement in an appropriate place, don't make it so long they scroll over it and move on to the next one, do not go on and on all the time and start threads all over the place about everything so you aren't seen as a worthless complainer not worth listening to.

Seriously, I used to play SK almost everyday before this update. I just completely hate it all. The protrait is giant and in the way, you can't see energy and crowns all the time. You can't see who is tabbed, you gotta go all these extra steps. The fight explosion thing causes so much lag to me, and I have a good computer, everytime I do the strongest hit on a weapon the explosion makes the SK screen freeze for like a second then I find myself dead. Devilites are now boring to fight, as a matter of fact everything is boring to fight now. I liked the mystery of not knowing how much health a monster has, I like having those Mini heart attacks when I'm about to die with half a heart left, then at last second I kill the monster with a burst of relief. I have been playing SK since June 9 2011, as 4 different people. I do come and go, but really if the Pets update isn't good, I think I'm just gonna quit SK. SK used to be my main game. :/ You just really lost me OOO, and I was so close to buying 5 months worth of elepasses, and 20k ce until this update came out. Looks like I might have to become a pro on TF2 instead of staying here on SK and being pro. SK used to be my favorite game, until this update. Oh how I miss the old SK. Please bring back the old UI or at least take out some of these things on this new update.

I'm more or less fine with the new UI, yeah, all know that the health bar is TOO long in the screen, all know that it is REALLY annoying not to see the crowns and the CE if you don't press the I button. But the worst part of this UI is not to see the capsules... I mean... I have died a lot of times being burned by not knowing in what position i had the health capsule in that moment. It was more comfortable when the capsule sections was in the top of the screen...

The other big problem with the UI, aside from the placment of things on the screen and the half-converted look, is the change in how easy it is to do anything. The new UI does clear up some space (even though it fillls it again with the weapon wheel and the health/portrait), but it does it at the cost of accessability. More things are buried deeper in menus and submenus, retractable tabs, and the like. There are features that went away, of course, but there are also ones that are just harder to find and take longer to get to. Again, this isn't as big of a problem as the others, but SK's style has always been functionality over appearance when it comes to the interface. A large portion of the community liked it that way, and the new look, while becoming "more attractive", does so at the cost of ease of use.

After over two weeks of off-line vacations I'm back and see this thread's still alive. Well, not that I was really expecting some reaction from developers, but still, I had a hope. Slim hope however.

Unfortunately, by that time, none of numerous sensible and reasonable arguments, often presented by most level-headed members of this community (like Gwen), sometimes even backed up with screen-shots, schemes and diagrams, were considered worthy by developers.

Sadly I can't force myself to play SK with new UI (Even after desaturating those over-saturated blues and changing icons. Yes, it may look slightly better, but it's still extremely awkward and non-functional). And it's not because I can't accept change. I was playing since Beta so I've gone through lots of changes. I didn't like some of those changes, but still I get used to them. But I can't get used to new UI. I've tried, but no success so far and I've actually lost interest in further trying. In my book UI was essential part of SK. It's like changing entire soundtrack to totally different style of music.

I can`t see the mist energy tank to see how much energy I have before doing a mission/arcade.

@Friendly-Person: They did that on purpose. Crazy, right? Maybe someone slipped something... extra into Nick's pipe. Yes. That explains it. That is the only reasonable reason I can accept for why they made some of these changes...

At least the shield health bar has kind of? been made more sensible by the announcement of Shield Bashing (and it's awesome that OOO has said, hey, we're working on new content, and we'd like to share with you even though we don't know when it'll be ready to release yet, but they haven't said a single thing about the UI issues)...

A month later and the biggest problems are still (based on my experiences and what I've seen posted on the forums):

-unable to see mist or CE or crowns without having the inventory open (they said your energy would pop up whenever it changed, but that hasn't seemed to happen for me?) (Seriously, go talk to Energetic Knight in Haven and his clone in the Bazaar- he talks about how awesome it is that it can be seen at all times.)

-huge portrait of your own character- simply too large

-placement of health bar- more than a bit out of our field of vision when looking at our knights

-teammate's health bars- not being able to see their pips, as percentages don't tell us jack

-can't drop vitapods- teamwork? what's that?

-basically everything about tabbing- can't tab on elevators, don't know if you're going to need tabbed until it's too late, can't tell who's been tabbed and by whom

-personal colors in Haven- why'd you get rid of them, really? no one had any complaints about them

-wheel weapon (and seeing what weapons are cursed? I haven't had any weapons cursed yet, that's based off of what others have said)- in the way, very difficult to see what weapon you have equipped

I know I'm being repetitive, but the lack of ANY response by OOO about the mass of complaints unfortunately means repetition is apparently needed here.

You basically summed up my complaints.

I haven't posted in this thread yet (I don't post in these forums, usually), but the new UI is so terrible I felt compelled to make this post... As many have probably said, it worked just fine before, so why was it changed? Just for the anniversary? (Well, if that's the case, please change it back!)

(My video settings : 1024 x 768, Low quality)

When monsters have low HP - left edge of border becomes thinner / disappears :
http://savepic.org/3506323.jpg

Can't see party invites while the inventory is open :
http://savepic.net/3637865.jpg
http://savepic.ru/4541905.jpg
http://savepic.net/3615337.jpg

Compare this with "new letter notification" :
http://savepic.net/3621480.jpg
I can see it always with any state of tabs

Thanx, Klipik. SFME

I think you mean "can't see party invites while inventory is open".