Spiral Knights - The devs should reply in the suggestions/arsenal forums on occasion

The devs should reply in the suggestions/arsenal forums on occasion

53 replies [Last post]

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 18:58

Fehzor

EDIT: See last comment; I thought about making another thread, but then thought against doing so.

I have yet to see a single dev comment on something in the suggestions forums, though I haven't dug through all of the threads from the past. I'm not saying that every single suggestion thread should be looked at and commented on in detail by the entirety of OOO, but it would be kind of nice if the devs posted something like-

"No, the sudaruska is fine, its meant to be a terrible sword that only a few deluded knights will use, and is meant to be 100% outclassed in every way to the divine avenger/gran faust. Thats why we removed the rocks from the charge attack."
or
"No, guild hall updates just aren't important. The guild hall was intended to be only for show, and will never have any features worth visiting it to use."

Even if it were just on the largest, most important threads. The serious ones... I guess it'd just make me feel like the devs cared more if they posted once a month on something that wasn't in general with the intent on speaking about the game. Or maybe the devs aren't allowed to post their thoughts in the suggestions forums, for the obvious reason that players would just try to change their topic around or something to fit the wants/needs of the devs post, or that it would set a standard of game play, if they posted about which items were better/worse in their opinion.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:12

Kalaina-Elderfall

This is basically exactly

This is basically exactly what we're talking about in the General thread about the poll.

In short, I don't really care if the devs don't think anything I say is worth considering. What I DO want to know is whether or not the suggestions on this forum are all entirely pointless due to the fact that the devs don't read them. I honestly think that the devs read the suggestions. I'm not cynical enough to think that they don't care at all about what their players want. But they sure don't show it, and above all else in this game, that is exactly the thing that disappoints me most, to the point where I'm starting to feel inclined not to give them any more of my money.

Tue, 01/31/2012 - 19:20

Fehzor

I've seen this come up

I've seen this come up several times, actually, and I thought that I should phrase it better, and put it directly in the suggestions forums. And yes, I do think they read them, I just think that it'd be nice if they posted their thoughts on them a tad bit while they were at it.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 05:35

Vivix-Core

[]

I believe the occasional edits of posts containing vulgar language are evidence enough that the administrative team members do occasionally peruse the suggestions forum.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 06:30

Blue-Phaze

@Vivix-Core True. Just try to

@Vivix-Core
True.
Just try to write a bad word. You'll get an ingame notification in no time. That's evidence enough for me that they do read the threads.
I just hope they don't do that only for censoring bad language.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 07:16

Kalaina-Elderfall

I actually got a foul

I actually got a foul language warning a while ago when I'd only made about four posts in a couple weeks and none of them were remotely bad. I can only assume it was over something I'd written a month or so before, although I don't have any idea what. Seemed kind of odd, but it doesn't bother me too much.

As Eurydice pointed out recently, though, forum and community management is done by people who aren't devs. We don't really know if the devs even come here or, if not, if the community people even talk to the devs about any of the things we say.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 08:11

Blue-Phaze

I heard that forum managers

I heard that forum managers tell the devs what are the most requested changes/additions, so they can have something to work with. I guess that's why they were asking about pets and other stuff on the survey.
I'm not sure where I read that though.

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 21:05

Diabound

I'm not sure if getting in

I'm not sure if getting in trouble for swearing means they're reading. They may have a program to search for such things automatically and they they confirm and delete

Wed, 02/01/2012 - 21:19

Fehzor

I know that they read them,

I know that they read them, I'd just like for them to post in them once in a while... I mean, they might as well say what they think while they read it.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 01:46

Evilnut

It's kinda pointless.

If they post in some threads and not in others, people will tend of think of it as favoritism, or that their threads were missed, their titles failed to catch the eyes, their ideas dismissed. Which may lead to endless arguing, flaming, or lots of thread bumping - "Look at me! Look at me!" until they get a dev reply in their threads.

If to prevent that devs need to post in each and every thread in the suggestion forum, they might as well use an automated response, or not respond in any thread at all.

It's their job - so trust them to read each and every thread posted here.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 07:10

#10

Fehzor

People already think of it as

People already think of it as favoritism- the devs "favor" the general section, thus, people post their suggestions there sometimes. Bumping threads too vigorously is considered illicit, so it wouldn't be too hard to control thread bumping. Nor do I expect they read every thread here- just the ones that are popular, or look good.

I guess if you'd rather never get any feedback... :/

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 15:39

#11

Diabound

@Evilnut Sorry but that

@Evilnut
Sorry but that really doesn't quite cut it. They post on the other forums so actually, they already are showing favortitism for instance, they posted on on that asked if Bechamel was a transgender.

Also, it's because of them never responding to the suggestions that this part of the forum is so inefficient. I mean, think about how many times we see greaver OP threads, Cutter and Troika UP threads (I agree with this one), kick party leader votes, and such other things. That's because no answers are provided like for instance, if you search up Troika UP threads the only responses are "yep" and nonsensical responses. That's not helpful so it's only natural to make a new thread on the topic. Case and point, if they responded with some level of concern or they said something like "we don't know how to fix it right now" or something, that would put those threads to rest. As of now however, we really just don't know how to go about it because we don't even know if they know that there's a problem

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 06:33

#12

Orangeo

I seeent it! I seeent it with my own two eyes!

I've seen GM's even reply to complaints before. No one really cared, so no wonder they don't post much.

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 15:45

#13

Diabound

@Orangeo Care to provide a

@Orangeo

Care to provide a link backing this assertion up?

Thu, 02/02/2012 - 23:09

#14

Skold-The-Drac

Glad I haven't paid money if that's the case

Not listening to your playerbase is where Zynga's lost it's vets... OOO will be wise to take a lesson while they can.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 13:56

#15

Fehzor

@Orangeo

How long ago and which complaints did they reply to? People flip out whenever the devs post in general, and the thread gets many more hits... and the point isn't to rally attention to the thread, its to know whether the suggestion is terrible, or if it is heard/accounted for, and in general, to show the dev's point of view on issues that are important to the players. I've seen only a handful of things suggested in the suggestions forum get put into the game, with many of the 'buff sudaruska' type threads being flat out ignored.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 14:25

#16

Psychodestroyer

I think

Devs don't reply to suggestions because of:

1) They can't really comment on certain suggestions because they can't guarantee a change. E.g: 'Buff Sudraska', one dev may not mind it, another will disagree, so neither can post their opinion on wether or not the idea'll go through.

2) It'll restrict the flow of ideas. If the Devs say anything, approving/disapproving of a particular part of an idea, people will completely discard that part of the idea and any potential good ideas that may have come out of discussing it.

3) Players will take their word to the extreme. If a Dev says something like: 'This is not a bad idea, what else you got for it?', everyone will think the chances of it coming out just increased by over nyan thousand. And vice versa. (Like the reactions when the survey came out about pets.)

4) Relating to 3, other players will complain that their threads on the same topic never got any attention whatsoever and demand the Devs read it and comment. Jealousy and hate arises from what players think is them being ignored while other threads get more attention.

That's what I think anyway.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 15:48

#17

Treizeknight

In response to

In response to psychodestroyer. They should at least say an idea is on or off the right track. So it doesn't shut down discussion, but at least shows that some ideas are worth using.

Having nothing demoralizes people who keep putting out ideas but not get any sort of feedback.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 19:41

#18

Skold-The-Drac

Just one thread

If a dev could make just one post on forums, perhaps a new thread stating that they enjoy that their knights wish to contribute so much to the game.
That would boost morale in this place.

Fri, 02/03/2012 - 20:55

#19

Fehzor

Psycho, its been stated that

Psycho, its been stated that this already happens with the threads in general.

And- if the devs "restrict" the flow of ideas, couldn't that make more ideas happen? I think thats a bit of a silly argument. I'm also wondering why you don't want devs to post in the forums... :l

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 02:47

#20

Psychodestroyer

I didn't say I don't want them to post. In fact, I didn't post my opinion on them posting. My post was just about why I think they don't.

And I'm not saying I'm 100% right, I was just speculating.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 03:30

#21

Darkbrady

I think it'd be nice just to

I think it'd be nice just to post a token comment, letting us know for a fact that they are reading, rather than leaving it to hope and blind speculation.

No need to even post "no, the Suda is fine" or "yes, we'll do that next", just vague comments will suffice.

"I like that, good idea"
"That's not high on our priority list"
"We're already working on something similar"

Anything at all that leaves things open-ended enough to not cause disappointment or false impressions, but still let us know that they read it and have opinions on the subject. Not even the smaller threads with 3 posts that need bumped every 12 hours to stay on, but even just the larger posts that read a page maybe, or get decent, mature discussions et cetera. Anythin' to let us know that a GM to some level does go over them and take people's ideas into account.

I don't think they completely ignore it, SK is a smaller based community than that that the Devs would completely ignore it (I hope :( ) but it's kinda unnerving as a player knowing that you're putting a lot of effort into a post and keeping the suggestions and discussions mature and never hearing ANYTHING about it. Having the dev post SOMETHING, positive, negative or completely useless will still affirm to us that everything is being looked over, in the very least.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:01

#22

Nicoya-Kitty

I think the best response we

I think the best response we can get from the devs is when we see the ideas show up in game.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 11:25

#23

Darkbrady

That can take a long time

That can take a long time though, from suggestion to implementation; can't expect people to just sit and wait and hope, especially when a good 80%+ of ideas will likely never make it to the game. It's a good way to know they listen, but how long does it take? Ideas have been taken and put down before, but a lot of the ones that have been have also been typically major things, or stuff that shows up in General and in rallies etc. What about really unique, interesting ideas that only pop up in Suggestions; how long before we ever find out whether that's good enough or not?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 13:08

#24

Diabound

@ Nicoya-Kitty THe thing is

@ Nicoya-Kitty

THe thing is they've never put anything that receives a lot of attention on the forums.

Cutter? Nothing despite so many comments
Troika? Nothing
Guns stuff? Nothing

Oh, but the brandish apparently needed a buff even though every other person I saw was carrying one. I've never seen any idea here implemented and if there have been I would chalk it up to a coincidence rather than anything else

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 13:21

#25

Nicoya-Kitty

@Diabound It's easy to forget

@Diabound It's easy to forget about all the suggestions that are/have been implemented. For the most recent example, go search back in the threads for how many times a mission/quest system was requested.

Or the elevator pass, or the return of the elevator pass, or the return of the unbundled elevator pass, or (cosmetic-only) pets (snipe hat).

You claim nothing has been done about the Troika? It used to stop at 4* just like the Spur, and just like the Spur there were endless suggestion threads about expanding it. (granted they didn't do a great job of expanding it, but it got a 5* version and a complete alternate alchemy path)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 13:31

#26

Darkbrady

Nicoya, didnae you have a

Nicoya, didnae you have a thread somewhere listing all the suggestions that had been implemented? There were around a dozen or so, iirc...?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 13:48

#27

Diabound

What you're suggesting Nicoya

What you're suggesting Nicoya is that they don't do anything themselves. Just because alot of people say something, does not mean that they implemented it because of them. Very likely, they intended to place basic things like extra weapons into the game. A system where you actually have an objective is also something they were likely thinking of implementing from the very beginning and assuming that them using basic common sense ideas that any game should be doing is because people tell them too is inaccurate.

Also adding new weapons to a game is supposed to happen, don't assume that they are just twiddling their thumbs until some random person here says "we want new weapons!", I would bet with you that even if people didn't say this, they will be adding more upgrades to existing weapons. In fact, their current behavior suggest that they don't pay attention to this section of the forum at all and just upgrade whatever.

And also, adding an upgrade to a weapon believed to be flawed is not fixing it or listening. In fact, since they upgraded and did nothing about the problems mentioned suggest that they really didn't listen at all

And snipe hats? Giving players the option to wear hats they've already put into the game is not advanced thinking and most certainly doesn't suggest that they listen in any way whatsoever. Nor is giving people scissor blades for that matter, they already had the image and just for the record, how many people asked for that in the suggestions? Search shows two people posting on it with not even 10 comments each which again, goes back to my statement about them not listening to anything that get's a lot of responses

And elevator passes? Really? The idea of letting people pay to play as much as they want? You really want to tell me that they only did that because of suggestions?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 13:50

#28

Nodocchi

To the people who think Devs

To the people who think Devs do not listen to your ideas:

How much time do you think it would take to implement each and every idea on the suggestions forums? Even if the Dev replied to every thread most of the replies would be "We'll maybe get to it in the next few years" because that is how long it would take to implement every idea on here. Yeah people don't see a lot of the suggestions implemented, by how much time do you think the Devs have had to implement any of the ideas on here? They still have main content they are working on for the game so I would expect at most one or two ideas out of the hundreds posted here will actually see implementation in the next year. It may not seem like much but that is probably all the Devs can do. It is not like they are sitting on their ass waiting for good ideas from the suggestions forum to appear and then implement them, they have their own planned work already, so at most I think we'll maybe see pets by the end of the year. Yeah that basically means if your idea is not ridiculously popular and demanded, it probably won't be implemented. Take a look around and see how many of those ideas there are and divide that number by 50, that is how many of those popular ideas will actually be implemented in the game.

What I'm saying is, if the Devs did post on the suggestions forums, almost every single idea will get a negative reply because they just don't have the time to implement them all. So yeah, why should the Devs bother posting in this case? You can pretty much assume when you post an idea that it will probably never make it's way into the game, why waste the Dev's time asking them to reply to it?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:11

#29

Diabound

Okay clearly Nodocchi you

Okay clearly Nodocchi you have not listen to our complaints and just read the title.

We didn't say we wanted every single idea to get a response. We're upset because they don't post anything at all. For example, the Tortodrone in treasure vault idea has gotten alot of attention for I think 2 weeks now. That might be worth an "interesting" from someone which would tell us at the very least that they read it. And they don't even have to do that, they could even mark it or something so that there can be more discussion on it. We don't expect much from them, just something that suggest that this idea is something worth considering or even one that's not because that way we can save time.

For instance, the new graveyard post is getting a lot of attention as well but if they don't think they'll implement it, then they should just say, "Sorry but we don't think we'll do that." Then everyone saves time and the frustration of not seeing your idea made into something is much less. It's like shouting into a dark tunnel really for something. Even if the person who responds can't do it, it at least makes you feel better because someone responded

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:17

#30

Darkbrady

You're twisting the entire

EDIT:
With your second post just above mine (#29), I completely agree, with the only exception that you need to remember to consider time as a serious, serious factor in development. A post can get huge attention for two weeks, but nothing will be possibly done about it for months to come, even for small things. However, a token comment would be greatly appreciated, that much we can all agree on.
The rest of this is directed at your response to Nicoya (#27).

ORIGINAL POST:
You're twisting the entire concept. Nicoya wasn't implying that Devs are incapable of thinking for themselves outside of the Suggestions, just that when a Suggestion is given that they do make their way into the game. By your edict, the only thing that'll ever prove to you that they read the Suggestions is if someone suggests an outlandish, horrible idea that is remarkeably shunned by the community, one that the Devs would obviously never even have considered, and is then put into the game. Any "good" idea could easily have alreayd been thunk up by the Devs, so you're creating an impossible and unfair scenario, and you're doing it deliberately to combat a legitimate point, which has done nothing to prove your point. Try and keep the discussion reasonable.

What you're suggesting Nicoya is that they don't do anything themselves.
Would be awfully coincidental that they managed to update the game with a dozen+ different things that were previously not there, and came around after people started asking for them. It doesn't mean they weren't already thinkin' of it, but when people start asking, it pushes that idea up the priority list, it makes the devs start workin' on that idea over other ideas they have that haven't been getting asked for.

Also adding new weapons to a game is supposed to happen,
The idea is that they take peoples ideas for what said new weapons might be or have involved in them, but ultimately that is entirely up to them and how they see fit to suit their game. It is the "suggestions" board after all, not somewhere to present ultimatums. Weapons are an integral part of the game and if the devs don't like it, they won't put it in; it may be a game we play, but it's their brainchild.

And also, adding an upgrade to a weapon believed to be flawed
It's a start. They could have simply not done anything, but they gave it an upgrade so that it could advance at all and hopefully keep up. It hasn't kept up as much as people would have hoped, but that's another step. They won't stop and focus everythin' about balancing one item before movin' onto the next; everythin' gets one step at a time, and if it isn't ready yet, it waits its turn again. If they did it any other way, we'd have one perfectly balanced weapon and everything else would be OP/UP, which would result in a horrifically imba game; taking everything one step in turns keeps everything relatively on par, with the occasional unlucky duck.

And snipe hats? Giving players the option to wear hats
They don't need to be "advanced thinking" for them to do what people ask for. A lot of suggestions here could be implemented relatively easily and pull out a thoughtless remark like "yeah well they didn't put much thought into that" because the idea is inherently simple. Fashions? People want, people will ask for. It's a fact of life in MMOs that fashion items will sell, they'll sell fast and they'll sell forever. That's giving people what they want.

And elevator passes? Really?
You're just being spiteful to avoid the point by now. Take a minute and think about it. I spend £5 and for the entire month I don't need to spend a penny on the game again, got all the elevator travel I need, just save up from there on. Before EPs, I could travel into the CWs ever day, but 75% of my earnings go into paying off the fees, and doing levels like Snarby or non-boss tiers was simply not an option. If I wanted to screw around like that or speed up the collection to upgrade, I'd have to buy energy. Could easily spend £20+ a month.
EPs are trading off their immediate profit to give players what they want, and keep them around for longer. They don't make the slightest bit of profit by allowing T3 players to spam Snarby, but it's what players WANT to do, and it's what they gave us.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:36

#31

Nicoya-Kitty

@Diabound Very convenient

@Diabound Very convenient thinking. Any idea that doesn't make it into the game is because the devs are ignoring the forums, and any idea that does make it into the game is pure coincidence.

Let me spell it out for you: Community admins at OOO do read this forum. They summarize some of the better suggestions and pass them on to the devs during their regular meetings. I'll reiterate: the suggestions posted to this forum *do* make it through to the devs.

Now, Nick et al also have their own vision for what the game should become. It's their baby after all, and they're not going to change directions just based on which way the wind is blowing. Some suggestions go against their vision, and they get ignored. Some suggestions bring to light valid issues which the devs choose to solve in ways differently than suggested. Some suggestions make it straight into the game, because they were well aligned with what was already planned, or were simply a good enough idea to make it worth a shot.

I'm pretty sure if you asked Nick today if he's heard of my suggestion to put Tortodrone in the treasure vault he'd say yes, given how popular the thread has been. Is he going to implement it? Dunno. He might have other plans for Torty, or other plans for the treasure vault, or he might just think it's a terrible idea all together. On the other hand, maybe it'll have inspired him to make a Tortodrone treasure vault mission in the new mission system, or maybe he thinks the idea is fantastic as it is and he plans to put it in as suggested.

Do I expect him to post in my thread and give me asspats? No. I expect that I'll see the results (or lack thereof) of my suggestion in game in 3-6 months.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:59

#32

Darkbrady

I think the main thing,

I think the main thing, Nicoya, is the "lack thereof" in that last line. People are happy to wait for results in time, but waiting 3~6 months just to get no mention? What then? "Oh, maybe they've not got around to it yet". Bit more time "Maybe it's more complicated than we thought."
9 months later, no sign of the idea, all hope is lost, you give up on the idea and the thread. 2 months after that, the idea appears in game.
Or maybe the idea doesn't appear in game, becasue by that point the thread had died and they'd lost the priority. Who knows.

Simple acknowledgment is all folk want; not asspatting or gratification or e-mailing legal forms requesting rights to use the idea, just acknowledgement that the people have seen the idea.

Sayin' that, I think that tbh, the ideas that deserve the posts most are the doomed ones. Ambiguous suggestions or ones that could poeyntially make it in to some degree are understandable to not have any mention, but if an idea is doomed from the start, it's a huge waste of time for the OP to keep teh thread running and everyone to discuss and comment, then wait 3~6 months wonderin' if it'd come through. A dev droppin' a line "yeah, we don't like that idea, doubt it'll ever happen" would save everyone a lot of stress and time, then they can move on to better and brighter things.
If the idea crops up in the devs minds at a later date, then fantastic; shootin' down the thread never killed the idea after all.

But no one wants to discuss a doomed idea without knowing that it's already been trashed and doesn't have a hope in hell.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:18

#33

Psychodestroyer

Just remembered...

Time to necro this lil' guy :P

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/37843

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:24

#34

Darkbrady

Aye, t'was the one I was

Aye, t'was the one I was talkin' about! Cheers for diggin' that baby out for me ;)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:25

#35

Diabound

@DarkbradyMy point Darkbrady

@Darkbrady

My point Darkbrady concerning his post is that none of them suggest that the suggestions are being read. If you asked me when I just started this game what I think they were going to add, I would have said they would give new armor, swords, some paid option to go on the elevators for free and most of the other things he listed. Now, if it was something complex I would have to acknowledge that they listened but that isn't the case. "Oh, the troika has an upgrade they MUST have read the suggestions" or "They read suggestions because they took the hat from something they already have and allowed us to wear it" is not what I would call proof. In fact, I will bet with you that the spur line will get a five star upgrade eventually, but to say that that means they read the suggestions is a fallacy because all it means is that they did something that games do... add content

Furthermore, if they actually did take suggestions then why wouldn't they respond if it's a good idea? Yes, I know they are busy, but if they're going to implement the idea (or not), there's no more need to keep fighting for it. For example, say they are working on the spur upgrade right this moment. That means that for the next 6-9 months maybe 100 people are wasting their time trying to advocate for it AND against it instead of other things. Saying 'yes' or 'no' or 'we're thinking about it' will take maybe 5 seconds if they already choose to read these posts and since they already have to spend months to make it happen, they may as well do it to save everyone's time.

Also Nicoya how do you know that your ideas been read? Rest assured, you topic will die down, months will pass and silence... silence... silence. Maybe they decided yesterday that they were going to implement your idea or maybe not. Either way, you and the people who respond to your post or started a new similar one would then be wasting time trying to convince them of an idea that has already been decided on.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:41

#36

Orangeo

"Care to provide a link?"

"Care to provide a link backing this assertion up?"
Gladly Diabound , forgive me for the late reply;
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/42158

The actual topic isn't a complaint, but a few of the posts above Eurydice's comment are. People were complaining that the developers should be working on actual content more as opposed to promo gear, and Eurydice said that they were doing both at once. Lone behold, there are still complaint fourms popping up about dragon wings. There shouldn't be more than one of those anyway. Even with a GM post, fourmers can't even do what is expected of them.

Furthermore, do you even think a GM saying 'yes' or 'no' would do anything at all? If they said "Yes, we are working on a five star spur," the threads wouldn't not stop whatsoever. I'm sure the GM's would disagree with things too, then people would just try to flame them, and spam things like dual weilding and pets more than before. Precisely why the only GM comments out there state facts as opposed to opinions. Haven't you seen what having an opinion does here?

Plus, how do you know all the GMs share an opinion? I mean, Hyperion getting in a flame war with Eurydice would look ridiculus! A GM war wouldn't even be that interesting anyway, I've seen the suppourt GM's not even know how to play that well before. I'm pretty sure every five-star player knows all the rooms in charred court. I'll tell some random party joe; "Pass me some shock vials so I can solo the rocket room", and bada-boom, it's done. I told a GM; "The monster gate in the rocket room won't open, can you nocip through and get the sprite so we can open the heart chests?" and he had no idea what I even meant.

I can understand calling out developers for making bad calls, they want that criteque, but calling out GM's for not participating in fourms is just dumb. It's not their job, they don't know as much about the game as some people, and they aren't even listened to anyway. At the same time, no one calls out the crappy 4-chan level fourm eddiquete around here. Calling OOO "a bunch of greedy jews" dosen't get much love. I 'd link to that, but you aren't allowed to link to explicit material, and I read the rules. Plus all the trash spam. If I had a nickle for every idea repost, I'd have allot of CE.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:34

#37

Nicoya-Kitty

@Diabound I know that the

@Diabound I know that the ideas are being read because the mods have stated as much, explicitly.

I think that the take-home message is that you shouldn't get too emotionally involved in your suggestions. Throw ideas out, try to make them good ones, and see what sticks. If Torty never shows up in the treasure vault, will I be disappointed? Nah, I'll just come up with a new suggestion for where they could bring him back.

I enjoy seeing my suggestions show up in the game as much as I enjoy seeing what the devs come up with themselves. If I wanted to play a game where everything was exactly the way I wanted it to be I'd go write my own game (I may yet, who knows).

I'd really rather the devs spend their time coding, and the mods spend their time smacking down idiots, than have either of them go around handing out ass-pats.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:17

#38

Fehzor

I think that they do read

I think that they do read topics in the suggestions forum, but that they only skim over them when needed. Thus, whenever they skim over it next time, and see "buff sudaruska", "guild hall upgrades" and "ENERGY", then they'll say "Hmm, we're about to do weapon fixes. Lets see about these." Or perhaps they will use the search function, and manage to click on "BUFF BRANDISH BECAUSE I SAID SO", and do that whilst ignoring the more prevalent topic about Sudaruska. But I do think that some of the threads get read. I just can't understand why the devs aren't as interested in posting stuff in the suggestions... maybe they're just tired of talking about spiral knights all day. But then, who gets tired of that?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:26

#39

Diabound

@OrangeoThe whole point of

@Orangeo

The whole point of this topic is that they never ever respond to suggestions and arsenal posts. Showing me something posted under general does not make a sufficient argument. And if they did respond with a no to something, yes that would help out alot because for instance, if they just flat out said yes on something, then whenever someone makes a topic who didn't read through the very inefficient search function, someone can tell him that they know and said that it is a good idea and that they are working on it but it's going to take a bit. Then the thread will die pretty quickly because there's no point arguing to put something in that they are trying to put in.

Instead however, whenever someone posts on the spur people just argue about what is going on and get's like 50 posts because no one knows if they're doing anything about it.

And if they said no on the other hand, whenever someone posts no one has to bother explaining anything to the person, they just "they said no, deal with it", end of story.

And if they disagree, then they should say that, because then there's no real point in posting anymore for that either because the suggestion if pending. For instance, if they posted that on say the Tortodrone one, then there's not much more to say. I mean, they are aware of it, there's really nothing more to be added on the tortodrone and if they had more time, they could tell us why so that better suggestions can be made future. We don't even know if they read it or if there was something wrong with it that would make other suggestions pointless and that ultimately leads to people posting again on the topic where it again get's a bunch responses and continues happening.

Point is dude, if they can reply on random crap all over "gremlin chatter" and "general" every day or so then they can at least post once every couple of weeks or so for the suggestions and/or arsenal sections.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 21:42

#40

Milkman

I think Psychodestroyer's

I think Psychodestroyer's post #16 explains it nicely.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 02:23

#41

Psychodestroyer

Thank you ^^

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 03:08

#42

Darkbrady

I think the real purpose of

I think the real purpose of this thread shouldn't be to encourage devs to reply, but to make a Sticky (similar to what Skold has done) in this board and give us an idea of what suggestions are/could be worked on, list things that we know will never happen (healing etc) but lets everyone hear it directly from the devs, and on a stickied thread at that.

All problems are solved then; they don't need to go into every thread to give a heads up, we know they're readin' if they keep it updated semi-regularly, we know that some ideas here and there are at least being thought about, which is good enough.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 06:32

#43

Orangeo

"The whole point of this"

"The whole point of this topic is that they never ever respond to suggestions and arsenal posts. Showing me something posted under general does not make a sufficient argument."
How can GM's be expected to post here if they can't even get something in in general discussion? Look at the facts; they responded to a complaint, and nothing happened. That would work the same way here.

"And if they said no on the other hand, whenever someone posts no one has to bother explaining anything to the person, they just "they said no, deal with it", end of story."
Not even close! There would be double threads! If say, Hyperion said; "we aren't making a five-star spur," people would just rage and make threads deliberately calling him and other GMs out. You know, kinda like this thread. It would be the highest thread on the list. Especialy the original, becuase it gets that "admin" bubble, and most people click on those on instinct. A GM giving out their opinion would basicaly pour gasoline on threads for flamers. If Hyperion popped in and just typed "no," would you leave it at that? I doubt anyone would.

"Point is dude, if they can reply on random crap all over "gremlin chatter" and "general" every day or so then they can at least post once every couple of weeks or so for the suggestions and/or arsenal sections."
No, they can't, did you even read my last post? GM's taking any stand anywhere wouldn't work for obvious reasons. We are customers. Say I'm a democrat, and I go to a pizza place. The owner says he wants to choke Obama. Will I eat there much more? Nope, not really. Some people might like the food enough, but I'm sure plenty would just ragequit or abuse the fourms like you.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 06:32

#44

Orangeo

A double post appeared?

Wow, and on the topic of spam;
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/42263#comment-274261
Your claiming that the GM's aren't doing ther job? On a post that clearly dosen't say anything about GMs anywhere? I mean, you could honestly be asking for GMs to just lend you a hand, but you posted riiight after posting here, calling them out? Smooth! You aren't ventolating at all.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:16

#45

Darkbrady

"Especialy the original,

"Especialy the original, becuase it gets that "admin" bubble, and most people click on those on instinct."

Hadn't considered that actually, but that's a valid point; if they posted on one, they'd probably need to post on all of them to keep it fair, or things are gunna start goin' down the "favouritism alley" pretty fast.

This further encourages me to believe that the solution is just:

"I think the real purpose of this thread shouldn't be to encourage devs to reply, but to make a Sticky (similar to what Skold has done) in this board and give us an idea of what suggestions are/could be worked on, list things that we know will never happen (healing etc) but lets everyone hear it directly from the devs, and on a stickied thread at that."

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 23:21

#46

Fehzor

;

@DarkBrady
Maintaining such a sticky would be a lot of work... I can see the players doing that, but not the GMs.

On favoritism-

Yes, it would make one thread get 'more attention', but is that a bad thing? If the devs say 'no', then they might get more reasons to do it from players who want it, and it might change their minds. If they said "Neat idea, brandish lines should be the most powerful swords in the game." then it would let on a bit of what they were doing/thinking about, and it would open up for other players to say what they think about the issue... more players than already post in suggestions. Another thing, is that there are several terrible ideas that players continually suggest- like redoing the entire energy system- that a single dev post could help to kill.

The other point of view, is that it would deny an equal playing field for all suggestions, but then, all suggestions are already on unequal ground, and the few that are amazing that the devs would post on are going to be more popular with players anyway- things like pets, and guild halls, are going to be 'better off' simply because they draw in more attention. And it is already favoritism- the devs are the ones choosing what they put into the game, its not like we're passing laws or something, we're just throwing out ideas and building onto them in hopes that the devs would choose them.

And for the critics of this, I don't see why you don't want to read about what the devs think on your ideas? I mean, thats kind of the point in posting in suggestions, to see what people think on your idea and have a .01% chance of it happening. Wouldn't the devs posting on things benefit this greatly?

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 02:11

#47

Darkbrady

I don't think it'd be so much

I don't think it'd be so much work that it'd not be worth doin'. Even just a sticky sayin' a shortlist of things they have planned, or threads they like/might consider, then a list of "don't even bother"s. That'd survive on fortnightly updates easily enough, gives them time to really look through everythin' then give a quick summary at the end.

The favouritism...well, I agree with you actually, but there are other sides to it that could still cause problems with it. Someone might come up with a good/unique/unusual idea that could otherwise be good but not get any attention from a Dev (for any reason, even just down to bad title choice) and being surrounded by Admin bubbles will probably never get any real attention from most of the other forum users. Once you've clicked on a half dozen ideas, half of them with admin bubbles, most people don't go seekin' out the smallest threads with bad titles etc.

Could work either way I suppose. Reckon a sticky would just cover all those problems though and generally be less work than goin' in and actively postin' on half the threads; just take the URL and slap it on the sticky; bam.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 13:19

#48

Orangeo

"I don't see why you don't

"I don't see why you don't want to read about what the devs think on your ideas?"
I'd love to read that, I just honestly don't think the community would always take it as well as you or me. I've seen some people act bashful when they realize that the pets suggestion isn't original, and apoligize for not using the searchbar, but I've also seen people flip out about it. I'm just content knowing that they read my posts, and when I say knowing, I mean it. Look at this for example;
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/41633
Now why would then need the forums in langages that they can read, if they don't read it? I consider that proof enough that the GMs and Devs do read our posts. I can settle with not knowing what they think about it becuase A; Player feedback is more useful, and B; It would cause more problems, at least with less mature players, as I've stated, explained, and exampled.

"Even just a sticky sayin' a shortlist of things they have planned, or threads they like/might consider, then a list of "don't even bother's"."
They have released a couple of don't even bothers. Healing is a perfect example, as stated by none-other than yourself. A complete sticky with URLs would just be like making exact replys on fourms, but the GM's would be able to back out and act less accountable for their opinion. Stickys arent as personified. It's closer to home, but I still forsee problems. The question really is 'what problems would we be willing to deal with?'.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 13:47

#49

Severage

o.o

This has turned in to quite the read..lol *dims lights, grabs popcorn*

Looking back in the Suggestions forum, the Devs seemed to reply at minimum once a month up until 7/29/11. After that, any other post they made here was graveyarded, because that was the last one I could find; unless I skipped a slightly more recent one. People then complained that Devs only reply once a month; they'd be calling themselves blessed now. xD

Slightly off-topic: Cherub's armor is seriously badass, saw it while crawling through the old posts. I mean...really. I would pay for that. Must be great to be an artist for a video game.

~Sev

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 15:00

#50

Nodocchi

Almost every month Nick posts

Almost every month Nick posts a short list of what is planned. Consider that your guideline for what ideas they liked and which they did not on the suggestions forums.

@Fehzor
People will discuss contentious ideas without any need for Dev input, having Dev input as you said will not change anything and people will argue like they always have. so why do you want Devs to waste their time with it? Also your favoritism argument is flawed, how can you tell which idea is popular? How can you tell which is amazing? Everyone has their own opinions and saying Devs will be able to objectively pick out the very best ideas based on some unknown measure of what makes a good idea is just naive. We're all throwing ideas out there so why make it harder than it already is by making there be Dev commented threads pushing new good ideas out of sight?