I believe the occasional edits of posts containing vulgar language are evidence enough that the administrative team members do occasionally peruse the suggestions forum.

I actually got a foul language warning a while ago when I'd only made about four posts in a couple weeks and none of them were remotely bad. I can only assume it was over something I'd written a month or so before, although I don't have any idea what. Seemed kind of odd, but it doesn't bother me too much.

As Eurydice pointed out recently, though, forum and community management is done by people who aren't devs. We don't really know if the devs even come here or, if not, if the community people even talk to the devs about any of the things we say.

I'm not sure if getting in trouble for swearing means they're reading. They may have a program to search for such things automatically and they they confirm and delete

If they post in some threads and not in others, people will tend of think of it as favoritism, or that their threads were missed, their titles failed to catch the eyes, their ideas dismissed. Which may lead to endless arguing, flaming, or lots of thread bumping - "Look at me! Look at me!" until they get a dev reply in their threads.

If to prevent that devs need to post in each and every thread in the suggestion forum, they might as well use an automated response, or not respond in any thread at all.

It's their job - so trust them to read each and every thread posted here.

@Evilnut
Sorry but that really doesn't quite cut it. They post on the other forums so actually, they already are showing favortitism for instance, they posted on on that asked if Bechamel was a transgender.

Also, it's because of them never responding to the suggestions that this part of the forum is so inefficient. I mean, think about how many times we see greaver OP threads, Cutter and Troika UP threads (I agree with this one), kick party leader votes, and such other things. That's because no answers are provided like for instance, if you search up Troika UP threads the only responses are "yep" and nonsensical responses. That's not helpful so it's only natural to make a new thread on the topic. Case and point, if they responded with some level of concern or they said something like "we don't know how to fix it right now" or something, that would put those threads to rest. As of now however, we really just don't know how to go about it because we don't even know if they know that there's a problem

@Orangeo

Care to provide a link backing this assertion up?

In response to psychodestroyer. They should at least say an idea is on or off the right track. So it doesn't shut down discussion, but at least shows that some ideas are worth using.

Having nothing demoralizes people who keep putting out ideas but not get any sort of feedback.

I think it'd be nice just to post a token comment, letting us know for a fact that they are reading, rather than leaving it to hope and blind speculation.

No need to even post "no, the Suda is fine" or "yes, we'll do that next", just vague comments will suffice.

"I like that, good idea"
"That's not high on our priority list"
"We're already working on something similar"

Anything at all that leaves things open-ended enough to not cause disappointment or false impressions, but still let us know that they read it and have opinions on the subject. Not even the smaller threads with 3 posts that need bumped every 12 hours to stay on, but even just the larger posts that read a page maybe, or get decent, mature discussions et cetera. Anythin' to let us know that a GM to some level does go over them and take people's ideas into account.

I don't think they completely ignore it, SK is a smaller based community than that that the Devs would completely ignore it (I hope :( ) but it's kinda unnerving as a player knowing that you're putting a lot of effort into a post and keeping the suggestions and discussions mature and never hearing ANYTHING about it. Having the dev post SOMETHING, positive, negative or completely useless will still affirm to us that everything is being looked over, in the very least.

That can take a long time though, from suggestion to implementation; can't expect people to just sit and wait and hope, especially when a good 80%+ of ideas will likely never make it to the game. It's a good way to know they listen, but how long does it take? Ideas have been taken and put down before, but a lot of the ones that have been have also been typically major things, or stuff that shows up in General and in rallies etc. What about really unique, interesting ideas that only pop up in Suggestions; how long before we ever find out whether that's good enough or not?

@Diabound It's easy to forget about all the suggestions that are/have been implemented. For the most recent example, go search back in the threads for how many times a mission/quest system was requested.

Or the elevator pass, or the return of the elevator pass, or the return of the unbundled elevator pass, or (cosmetic-only) pets (snipe hat).

You claim nothing has been done about the Troika? It used to stop at 4* just like the Spur, and just like the Spur there were endless suggestion threads about expanding it. (granted they didn't do a great job of expanding it, but it got a 5* version and a complete alternate alchemy path)

What you're suggesting Nicoya is that they don't do anything themselves. Just because alot of people say something, does not mean that they implemented it because of them. Very likely, they intended to place basic things like extra weapons into the game. A system where you actually have an objective is also something they were likely thinking of implementing from the very beginning and assuming that them using basic common sense ideas that any game should be doing is because people tell them too is inaccurate.

Also adding new weapons to a game is supposed to happen, don't assume that they are just twiddling their thumbs until some random person here says "we want new weapons!", I would bet with you that even if people didn't say this, they will be adding more upgrades to existing weapons. In fact, their current behavior suggest that they don't pay attention to this section of the forum at all and just upgrade whatever.

And also, adding an upgrade to a weapon believed to be flawed is not fixing it or listening. In fact, since they upgraded and did nothing about the problems mentioned suggest that they really didn't listen at all

And snipe hats? Giving players the option to wear hats they've already put into the game is not advanced thinking and most certainly doesn't suggest that they listen in any way whatsoever. Nor is giving people scissor blades for that matter, they already had the image and just for the record, how many people asked for that in the suggestions? Search shows two people posting on it with not even 10 comments each which again, goes back to my statement about them not listening to anything that get's a lot of responses

And elevator passes? Really? The idea of letting people pay to play as much as they want? You really want to tell me that they only did that because of suggestions?

Okay clearly Nodocchi you have not listen to our complaints and just read the title.

We didn't say we wanted every single idea to get a response. We're upset because they don't post anything at all. For example, the Tortodrone in treasure vault idea has gotten alot of attention for I think 2 weeks now. That might be worth an "interesting" from someone which would tell us at the very least that they read it. And they don't even have to do that, they could even mark it or something so that there can be more discussion on it. We don't expect much from them, just something that suggest that this idea is something worth considering or even one that's not because that way we can save time.

For instance, the new graveyard post is getting a lot of attention as well but if they don't think they'll implement it, then they should just say, "Sorry but we don't think we'll do that." Then everyone saves time and the frustration of not seeing your idea made into something is much less. It's like shouting into a dark tunnel really for something. Even if the person who responds can't do it, it at least makes you feel better because someone responded

@Diabound Very convenient thinking. Any idea that doesn't make it into the game is because the devs are ignoring the forums, and any idea that does make it into the game is pure coincidence.

Let me spell it out for you: Community admins at OOO do read this forum. They summarize some of the better suggestions and pass them on to the devs during their regular meetings. I'll reiterate: the suggestions posted to this forum *do* make it through to the devs.

Now, Nick et al also have their own vision for what the game should become. It's their baby after all, and they're not going to change directions just based on which way the wind is blowing. Some suggestions go against their vision, and they get ignored. Some suggestions bring to light valid issues which the devs choose to solve in ways differently than suggested. Some suggestions make it straight into the game, because they were well aligned with what was already planned, or were simply a good enough idea to make it worth a shot.

I'm pretty sure if you asked Nick today if he's heard of my suggestion to put Tortodrone in the treasure vault he'd say yes, given how popular the thread has been. Is he going to implement it? Dunno. He might have other plans for Torty, or other plans for the treasure vault, or he might just think it's a terrible idea all together. On the other hand, maybe it'll have inspired him to make a Tortodrone treasure vault mission in the new mission system, or maybe he thinks the idea is fantastic as it is and he plans to put it in as suggested.

Do I expect him to post in my thread and give me asspats? No. I expect that I'll see the results (or lack thereof) of my suggestion in game in 3-6 months.

Time to necro this lil' guy :P

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/37843

@Darkbrady

My point Darkbrady concerning his post is that none of them suggest that the suggestions are being read. If you asked me when I just started this game what I think they were going to add, I would have said they would give new armor, swords, some paid option to go on the elevators for free and most of the other things he listed. Now, if it was something complex I would have to acknowledge that they listened but that isn't the case. "Oh, the troika has an upgrade they MUST have read the suggestions" or "They read suggestions because they took the hat from something they already have and allowed us to wear it" is not what I would call proof. In fact, I will bet with you that the spur line will get a five star upgrade eventually, but to say that that means they read the suggestions is a fallacy because all it means is that they did something that games do... add content

Furthermore, if they actually did take suggestions then why wouldn't they respond if it's a good idea? Yes, I know they are busy, but if they're going to implement the idea (or not), there's no more need to keep fighting for it. For example, say they are working on the spur upgrade right this moment. That means that for the next 6-9 months maybe 100 people are wasting their time trying to advocate for it AND against it instead of other things. Saying 'yes' or 'no' or 'we're thinking about it' will take maybe 5 seconds if they already choose to read these posts and since they already have to spend months to make it happen, they may as well do it to save everyone's time.

Also Nicoya how do you know that your ideas been read? Rest assured, you topic will die down, months will pass and silence... silence... silence. Maybe they decided yesterday that they were going to implement your idea or maybe not. Either way, you and the people who respond to your post or started a new similar one would then be wasting time trying to convince them of an idea that has already been decided on.

@Diabound I know that the ideas are being read because the mods have stated as much, explicitly.

I think that the take-home message is that you shouldn't get too emotionally involved in your suggestions. Throw ideas out, try to make them good ones, and see what sticks. If Torty never shows up in the treasure vault, will I be disappointed? Nah, I'll just come up with a new suggestion for where they could bring him back.

I enjoy seeing my suggestions show up in the game as much as I enjoy seeing what the devs come up with themselves. If I wanted to play a game where everything was exactly the way I wanted it to be I'd go write my own game (I may yet, who knows).

I'd really rather the devs spend their time coding, and the mods spend their time smacking down idiots, than have either of them go around handing out ass-pats.

@Orangeo

The whole point of this topic is that they never ever respond to suggestions and arsenal posts. Showing me something posted under general does not make a sufficient argument. And if they did respond with a no to something, yes that would help out alot because for instance, if they just flat out said yes on something, then whenever someone makes a topic who didn't read through the very inefficient search function, someone can tell him that they know and said that it is a good idea and that they are working on it but it's going to take a bit. Then the thread will die pretty quickly because there's no point arguing to put something in that they are trying to put in.

Instead however, whenever someone posts on the spur people just argue about what is going on and get's like 50 posts because no one knows if they're doing anything about it.

And if they said no on the other hand, whenever someone posts no one has to bother explaining anything to the person, they just "they said no, deal with it", end of story.

And if they disagree, then they should say that, because then there's no real point in posting anymore for that either because the suggestion if pending. For instance, if they posted that on say the Tortodrone one, then there's not much more to say. I mean, they are aware of it, there's really nothing more to be added on the tortodrone and if they had more time, they could tell us why so that better suggestions can be made future. We don't even know if they read it or if there was something wrong with it that would make other suggestions pointless and that ultimately leads to people posting again on the topic where it again get's a bunch responses and continues happening.

Point is dude, if they can reply on random crap all over "gremlin chatter" and "general" every day or so then they can at least post once every couple of weeks or so for the suggestions and/or arsenal sections.

Thank you ^^

"The whole point of this topic is that they never ever respond to suggestions and arsenal posts. Showing me something posted under general does not make a sufficient argument."
How can GM's be expected to post here if they can't even get something in in general discussion? Look at the facts; they responded to a complaint, and nothing happened. That would work the same way here.

"And if they said no on the other hand, whenever someone posts no one has to bother explaining anything to the person, they just "they said no, deal with it", end of story."
Not even close! There would be double threads! If say, Hyperion said; "we aren't making a five-star spur," people would just rage and make threads deliberately calling him and other GMs out. You know, kinda like this thread. It would be the highest thread on the list. Especialy the original, becuase it gets that "admin" bubble, and most people click on those on instinct. A GM giving out their opinion would basicaly pour gasoline on threads for flamers. If Hyperion popped in and just typed "no," would you leave it at that? I doubt anyone would.

"Point is dude, if they can reply on random crap all over "gremlin chatter" and "general" every day or so then they can at least post once every couple of weeks or so for the suggestions and/or arsenal sections."
No, they can't, did you even read my last post? GM's taking any stand anywhere wouldn't work for obvious reasons. We are customers. Say I'm a democrat, and I go to a pizza place. The owner says he wants to choke Obama. Will I eat there much more? Nope, not really. Some people might like the food enough, but I'm sure plenty would just ragequit or abuse the fourms like you.

"Especialy the original, becuase it gets that "admin" bubble, and most people click on those on instinct."

Hadn't considered that actually, but that's a valid point; if they posted on one, they'd probably need to post on all of them to keep it fair, or things are gunna start goin' down the "favouritism alley" pretty fast.

This further encourages me to believe that the solution is just:

"I think the real purpose of this thread shouldn't be to encourage devs to reply, but to make a Sticky (similar to what Skold has done) in this board and give us an idea of what suggestions are/could be worked on, list things that we know will never happen (healing etc) but lets everyone hear it directly from the devs, and on a stickied thread at that."

I don't think it'd be so much work that it'd not be worth doin'. Even just a sticky sayin' a shortlist of things they have planned, or threads they like/might consider, then a list of "don't even bother"s. That'd survive on fortnightly updates easily enough, gives them time to really look through everythin' then give a quick summary at the end.

The favouritism...well, I agree with you actually, but there are other sides to it that could still cause problems with it. Someone might come up with a good/unique/unusual idea that could otherwise be good but not get any attention from a Dev (for any reason, even just down to bad title choice) and being surrounded by Admin bubbles will probably never get any real attention from most of the other forum users. Once you've clicked on a half dozen ideas, half of them with admin bubbles, most people don't go seekin' out the smallest threads with bad titles etc.

Could work either way I suppose. Reckon a sticky would just cover all those problems though and generally be less work than goin' in and actively postin' on half the threads; just take the URL and slap it on the sticky; bam.

This has turned in to quite the read..lol *dims lights, grabs popcorn*

Looking back in the Suggestions forum, the Devs seemed to reply at minimum once a month up until 7/29/11. After that, any other post they made here was graveyarded, because that was the last one I could find; unless I skipped a slightly more recent one. People then complained that Devs only reply once a month; they'd be calling themselves blessed now. xD

Slightly off-topic: Cherub's armor is seriously badass, saw it while crawling through the old posts. I mean...really. I would pay for that. Must be great to be an artist for a video game.

~Sev