I can tell. You left Guild LD before I had time to agree with your statement!

Seriously, yes, there should be some buffing of those... although Callahan does have a use in Wolvers and Devilites, it could stand to get some more damage. And Iron Slug... well, you know.

Every time I see the Deconstructor I sigh and shake my head. So much wasted potential.

Give us Asian/Australian/South American servers and then fix the game. Invincibility frames make the game easy for you (because you run on a 4-bar) while they're the only thing keeping me alive.

Normal damage sacrifices far too much DPS and safety for the ability to be vulnerable and lightly hitting against all of the monsters. Sure, it can be done with a normal damage weapon, but really, it just makes the fight go slower, and exposes you to more damage sources to eat away at the crappy defense you have.

Okay, enough. I'm going to break out the math to shut you up about normal damage weapons.

Using your favorite weapon (going by your previous forum postings), Sudaruska, the wiki lists the damage for its combo in Stratum 6 as the following...

Hit 1: 241-288
Hit 2: 297-321

Now, for an "Optimizer weapon" of the same class, Divine Avenger, and we'll take the neutral damage (i.e. versus Jellies and Fiends)...

Hit 1: 234 - 241
Hit 2: 338 - 363

Now, let's look at it against Undead and Constructs. Two enemy types DA is supposed to do more damage to...

Hit 1: 311 - 328
Hit 2: 404 - 445

Now, let's take a worse-than-worst-case scenario. Let's say Sudaruska does 70% of the damage that DA does to a neutral target and 50% to a target weak to Elemental (this is a massive underestimation, made obvious by the damage numbers above). You complain that Sudaruska should be stronger, to match up with DA, because after all, you still paid 800CE to craft the Sudaruska. You should be able to do as much damage as an "Optimizer" because you paid as much as they did. The problem with that is you did NOT pay as much as they did. That "Optimizer" that you love hating on so much paid THREE times what you did - 2400CE, to get a sword of each damage type. They paid 200% more than you did, to do 100% more damage across the board. You paid a third of what they did, and are only getting a damage reduction of half, in this extreme underestimation. In reality, you paid a third of what they did, to get a damage reduction of less than half, as your precious Normal Damage Weapons do more than half the damage of a specialized weapon.

The fact of the matter is that you're a hate mongerer. This much is quite obvious, you using "Optimizer" as a smear term to deride people who don't use the same gear that you use, speaking as though your gear choice makes you superior. It doesn't. You fail to understand how specialization works, and then you come on the forums as the vocal minority to shout about how your general use weapons should be exactly as strong as specific use weapons, even though you only had to buy one, and the "Optimizers" you hate so much had to buy three. Guess what? Optimizers are people too, and we are NOT going away, however much you kick and cry about getting outplayed. Go ahead, hate on us some more. You're only going to feed the fire. And every time you get outplayed by one of us, we can sit back and laugh about how much you're seething about losing to a group that you hate.

In a game about gear specialization, you either learn how to specialize, or you get left behind. Deal with it.

In before accusations of personal insults/logical fallacies/responses indicative of a failure to read this post.

- Troikas can be easily obtained in the first week of playing; Sealed Swords have to be bought with Jelly Gems.

- Troikas can be used against everything; you need two Sealed Swords to make up for each sword's respective weakness, and a toothpick if you want to do optimal damage to everything.

- Troika recipes can be obtained from Hall of Heroes; Sealed Sword recipes have to be bought from Basil in the Clockworks.

I've done a lot of thinking about balancing things. The simplest way to fix the game with no explanation of why it would work because I'm lazy and no one cares about what I write anyway-

1. Normal damage has a much larger influence when it comes to flinching enemies and canceling their attacks
2. Normal damage resistance on armor resists all elements by a (larger) percentage of its bar. All "defensive armor" (E.G. Dread skelly) items are given a larger health bonus and a stage of global damage
3. Damage bonuses VS specific monsters increases the knight's ability to flinch those specific monsters; still stacks with other bonuses, and counts for UVs. One piece of Skolver+1 piece of arcane salamander means that swords flinch the crap out of beasts and slimes.
4. All other enemies other than devilites, lumbers, grievers and gremlins attack faster with a quicker animation. Zambies are returned to the way they were prior to being "fixed". Their ability to knee knights in the face is removed, and they are allowed to track knights to claw them in the face. Menders are allowed to attack.
5. Stun is fixed. All haze bombs deal medium as opposed to low status.
6. All members of the blast bomb family with the exception of nitronome and H.Decon are given different status effects. H.Decon is made elemental, and left at 4*, or otherwise dealt with following another style of attack.
7. All chances to deal status effects are brought up beyond a minimal level of about... 1/5 tries.

(OPTIONAL)Flinching is made more prominent, with a slight addition of illumination around the border, perhaps in red to represent normal, to show its importance in the game.

Now go play with your numbers kids.

On the topic of Invincibility Frames, I kinda thought up a system. Remove the invincibility, but if a player is being hit multiple times in a very short amount of time (1sec) by the same source, reduce the amount of dmg taken over the course of that 1 sec. This will make blitz and strikers useful, but they will not cause instant kill. Lets say the blitz causes 100dmg per hit and hits 6 times in 2 sec. The first hit does 100 dmg, followed by 50 then 25 until it reaches the second sec, then it repeats. This will make sure that the player takes a decent amount of dmg, but does not get instant killed.

A GF is 10.7% faster then the suda

This is a mere estimate at best. Unless you literally break apart the game code and figure out how much faster it is that way, all you have is counting the combos in a set period, which is not good enough to give an accurate result to a tenth of a percent. Even counting the frames would not be satisfactory, as different setups will have different framerates, and framerates will vary based on what's on the screen. Yes, Sealed is (by all appearances) faster than Sudaruska, but stating "10.7%" is false precision.

The suda is only 35% better against fiends and undead, and the GF is simply safer, so there is not really a good reason to use a Suda, now is there?

"Only" 35% better? If you're doing around 300 damage, 35% works out to roughly 100 more damage. I'd say that's is a significant damage difference. Gran Faust is only safer if you're not Shield Cancelling, and if you're not, you deserve to get hit, especially against Fiends. And yes, there is a good reason to use Sudaruska - to not have to buy three different swords to be effective against everything. What part about that do you not get?

Yeah, I paid 800CE for my suda. You paid 800CE for your DA. You don't have to go out and buy a GF and a FF as well.

Yes, I do actually, if I want to be able to kill every enemy at an rate similar to what Sudaruska will. If I just have DA, I will be ineffective against Wolvers and Gremlins, while your Sudaruska will handle them about the same as any other enemy. Even if I only want to cover my weakness, and get the 19.2% damage bonus (by your own numbers), I still have to buy twice as many weapons as you. How is it fair that I should have to pay twice as much as you, but not get a damage bonus?

As though that is enough to garner almost 20% debuff to DPS and a MAJOR Safety risk.

So, paying 200% of the price, and having to work extra on top of that to get the weapons isn't enough to get a 20% damage buff? I'd hate to hear what you think is enough to garner a 20% damage bonus. I don't even see how you can argue this. It's patently ridiculous, way beyond the realm of logical fallacy. All your numbers did was bring slightly more accuracy to my initial statement. As for your claim about a "safety risk," try Shield Cancelling. I remember you posting previously, complaining about it. If you fail to use it, you deserve to take the damage. It's called playing the game. If you can't do it, don't come crying to us about how they should change the game to suit your whims.

I'm trying to change that, make it more balanced.

No, you're not trying to make anything more balanced. It's already balanced. All I hear is you trying to force everyone to play the same way you do, simply because you don't like "Optimizers" (your word).

Hey, here's a better idea - delete every single piece of gear except the "Optimizer" gear, and give everyone who lost gear that way some coupons to get replacement gear, and have it automatically heated to level 10 (to make up for the lost heat on the deleted gear). Look at that, it gets the same results, only it's now your equipment and playstyle that's being attacked.

The fact of the matter is, that no matter how many times it's asked, you avoid the inevitable question - why should you get the same effectiveness at half the cost? Why shouldn't someone who paid twice as much get a 20% bonus?

The funny thing is, the 'specialist' sets haven't been 'attacked' once in the entire thread.]

Search up some of Tsu's other threads and you'll know what Eldibs is talking about.

Aureate, but if the monsters' health is reduced then it will compensate the knights' damage decrease.
And yeah, defense should have more impact.

Monsters definitely need to go back to their original AI, or else Natural Selection will wipe out wolvers in a generation or two. Chromalisks need major buffing, gremlins need to dodge again, and the list goes on. The little-to-no impact of defense can be seen especially when playing lockdown, where my Divine Veil still has me getting two-hit by Fausts/Gran Fausts, and its elem defense, along with my elem max UV on my armor, still has me getting two-hit by the DA. Other weapons that need a swift kick-in-the-pants include the expansion pack reward sword (ridiculous reach) and fencing lines (see strikers in LD; who needs skill when you spaz and fly around like that?).

I'll mention LD here quickly, because I have to suffer through it to get the weapon I want. Strikers are OP. You can argue with me all you want, but flying around the map in skolver armor, while holding a fencing sword and a faust is all too common for any reasoning otherwise. Don't even try to tell me that two-hitting people isn't OP, and that it requires a lot of skill. I won't buy it. I don't know about strikers, but recons can lose their cloaking ability easily, and we're in trouble when that happens. Heavy hitting swords need to be limited to the guardian, because speed oriented classes holding giant swords like that make no sense whatsoever.

Some of us have been extremely screwed by the loss of use in T3 Normal Defense. Was there any real point in this? When I went with normal lines, I was under the line of thought that I would get decent/mild defense and damage against everything, but nothing too strong because my armor and weapons weren't too specific/situational. Now my body armor has lost half its use, way to go, OOO. The problem with armor is that not everything is a viable option. In true balance, you should see a close-to-equal amount of people using every line. There shouldn't be a best set. There shouldn't even be a best set for each individual weapon type. You could argue that everything could be buffed to be on-par with Wolver Lines, but then you'd have to really buff enemy stats and AI, rather than slightly buffing them and nerfing equipment down to proportion.

Eldibs, the argument is simple, and this is coming from me, a pure gunner who doesn't use any full or even partial Normal damage weapons because they aren't optimal.

Normal weapons (i.e. Suda) are supposed to be neutral against everything. The DA is supposed to be neutral against slimes and fiends. The DA should not be superior to the Suda against slimes and fiends. I'm not saying the Suda should be superior; they're both neutral, and they should be comparable. Neutral is neutral.

If the typed weapons are better than Normal weapons on their neutral targets, then all you need to do is get two types. Have tables.

I own a Suda!

Beasts - Sure
Slimes - Sure
Grems - Sure
Undead - Sure
Constructs - Sure
Fiends - Sure

I own a DA!

Beasts - Poor
Slimes - Better than Suda
Grems - Poor
Undead - Way better than Suda
Constructs - Way better than Suda
Fiends - Better than Suda

I own a DA! And I made an Flourish too.

Beasts - Way better than Suda
Slimes - Better than Suda
Grems - Better than Suda
Undead - Way better than Suda
Constructs - Way better than Suda
Fiends - Way better than Suda

The problem isn't the Beasts, Undead, Constructs, and Fiends. It's the Slimes and Gremlins. With just two weapons, you surpass the Normal damage counterpart against all damage types. You should need three.

So I have a rule of thumb that says a 5* weapon costs 2000 CE from the ground up, including recipes, mats, and starting at 2*.

How much does the minimum viable 5* cost if you use one Normal weapon?

One helm, one shield, one armor, one weapon. So, 8000 CE.

How much does the minimum viable 5* cost if you use a DA and a Flourish?

One helm, one shield, one armor, two weapons. 10000 CE.

The difference in cost is 25%. You don't even need weapon slots. Sure, you want to pick up an Acheron, but that's just icing on the cake to take you from "completely outperforming Suda" to a place where you can't even compare them.

Yes, 2000 CE matters to a newbie. No, it's not the end of the world, and the benefits for it are pretty huge.

That being said, a lot of Normal damage weapons are worse than the Suda. I laugh at the idea that an Iron Slug is somehow acceptable in Tier 3. Valiance, Neutralizer, Supernova. Every Normal damage gun is lulzy bad, and the arguments for them are weak. Supernova's great knockback, for example, is actually so good that it pushes monsters so far away that they lose aggro and you have to chase them. The only reason to have these items in the game is because they are bad and the set of weapons should include bad options. The other three don't even have much utility to back up their abysmal damge. Short range knockback on a Valiance? Try a sword; better knockback radius and better damage even in gun armor.

At any rate, the 25% greater cost of 5* is not big enough of a deal that Normal damage weapons have to be gimped to "sure you can use it if you like taking hours to kill all of the monsters!" territory. A balanced game doesn't have to make them strictly inferior-whilst-cheaper, especially on neutral targets. Because neutral is neutral, end of story.

And that's the unquestionable argument. I would argue that they should be slightly BETTER than typed weapons against neutral targets, because game balance isn't a question of absolutes, it's about poking things into the gray area and seeing where that takes you.

And cost-based balancing isn't great balancing anyway. UV pricing does it right. Anybody can get a Blitz Needle. A Blitz Needle with CTR medium will cost you a bit. CTR high about five times that, and CTR VH about five times THAT. That's a huge premium to pay for a minor benefit, but people pay it because it improves the gun. Trinkets are similar: a large investment for a not-that-great return that people pay for anyway because it improves their loadouts.

Getting three typed weapons vs Normal is a much, much larger benefit than a few levels of UVs, and it doesn't even cost double! It's 12000 CE + Weapon Slot vs 8000 CE.

"The fact of the matter is, that no matter how many times it's asked, you avoid the inevitable question - why should you get the same effectiveness at half the cost? Why shouldn't someone who paid twice as much get a 20% bonus?"

Paying twice as much to get a 20% bonus sounds okay to me, although I'd argue that 3x cost is more in line with 20%. But in Spiral, you're paying about 1.25x to get something closer to 50%. That's an entirely different realm of cost per benefit, making Normal damage weapons pretty much useless even as a temporary MyFirstWeapon option for newbies. It's a balance issue, and it's not balanced. The cost/benefit is so out of whack that there is no good argument to be made for using a Normal weapon, save maybe for being too lazy to deal with switching weapons based on enemy type.

And sure, Tsu's not that great at making a straight argument, but that doesn't mean the points aren't valid. You just have to actually consider it.

---

On topic, I'm actually tentatively in support of getting rid of invincibility frames. I love abusing the invincibility and all, but that's just what it is, abusing the mechanic to my advantage. For the most part, the only time it ever actually matters is when I use it to run across spikes or grates with impunity after taking a hit, and often just running across the spikes is a better move that getting hit anyway. I don't PvP, so I can't say how it would effect that, but I doubt it would break PvE. Although, I don't think it would really make the game much harder anyway.

As for the numbers:

Low health, high damage, dodge-premium knights is sort of how Spiral works, and is why it's a fun game. That's not something to change.

A lot of monsters are stupid easy to dodge and take stupid long to kill, though. In particular, the melee ones. A lot of them are slow and have a lot of HP, which basically just makes them worthless when not paired with turrets. Can't they pose at least some threat? But I think that's more of a monster movesets change than a numbers change.

I think defense should mean more, but it's not meaningless as is. It's just that weapons >>> armor in terms of knight effectiveness, but we spend at least as much or more on armor as we do on weapons. Shields are okay as is.

Reducing server lag, easier said than done.

But the gist of it is, what needs to be done with Spiral to make it more fun for me is that I need to have to pay attention. I've set up my controls so I can mouse-only and keyboard-only play if I need to, even though I use WASD/mouse normally. A couple days ago I ran through the entirety of FSC including Vanaduke (and I was as usual the main DPS/aggro Blitz Needle at Vana and was killing plenty of zombies/trojans/oilers/etc along the way, so it's not like my party was carrying me) with mouse-only while I was on the phone with my other hand. I wasn't even paying attention to Spiral Knights. I know I'm experienced and all, but isn't that a little silly? It's a game about dodging, and monsters are so easy to dodge you don't even have to try. Either that, or it's bullet hell and you can't realistically dodge the bullets without shielding or moving to the side of the area, which is why Shadow Lairs are difficult. The zombies/alphas nerf from a while back sort of exemplifies this. You have these melee threats, and they're too hard so you nerf them and make dodging easier? Alphas used to be one of the most threatening enemies in the Clockworks, and now they're like insects, posing no threat and taking forever to get them to stick in one place so you can kill them.

But the fact that OOO has made no attempt to backpedal on the nerf at all indicates they're happy with the resulting difficulty. They don't want new players getting frustrated when they die. They want the game to be easy. And that's just how it's going to be. There's a reason I only play the game for the social aspect of doing runs with friends, rather than attempting to challenge myself. Spiral Knights could be a fun, challenging game at endgame, where a mistake or two on the player's part actually puts the party at risk. Like in the last room of D27 FSC when you accidentally get clocked by a Trojan and suddenly you're dead and your party's dying too for whatever reason. That kind of thing is there, but it's not prevalent enough. There's no feeling of risk or a pressing need to stay alive. If you die, your team will be fine and they'll just revive you. It's not a big deal. And being able to solo the entirety of FSC while carrying a party of three dead knights who you don't ever revive? That's actually pretty easy to do. It honestly shouldn't be.

Spiral Knights PvE is not a challenge. Anyone who wants Clockworks expeditions to be a team-synergizing experience full of coordination and danger is going to be disappointed. The rest of us will have to be okay sleepwalking through Tier 3 while we guild chat about what movies we've seen recently... in the middle of battle. And I am okay with that, but it would be nice to have to compete against the monsters from time to time, rather than the stopwatch of how fast you can kill them.

The only thing here that I strongly agree with is that the defensive armors should have a notable defensive buff versus the offensive armors. The armor difference between snarby and skelly, or skolver and Azure, is so minute that it definitely isn't worth it.

I am totally against removing invincibility frames. This style of game has always had invincibility on hit, to give players time to react to it. You get stunned when hit, you need a moment to see that you got hit, realize your last attack didn't go through, and decide to attack again or move. Also, in the case of an online game like this, for lag. If you're by Australia, and there was no invincibility, you could be getting hit for the second time before the game showed you getting hit for the first time... The invincibility needs to stay.

I like your arguments on statuses, and how normal weapons seem overly weak. I think a quick fix would be to give normal weapons a chance to critical hit(deal a lot more damage than they normally would). I brought up the argument of monster specific buffs to be too weak before. I agree: this needs to be fixed somehow. Also, being highly specialized in, say, swords, should make you a glass canon.

The rest, seems, well, a little flawed. The reason the defenses in T3 (I'm assuming this is what your arguments are based on) being the way they are is to make the game faster paced, you have to be very defensive. You slip, you die. HOWEVER, decent defense is possible in T3. I have a 5* Azure Guardian helm, and a Dragon Scale Mail, and I can get away from a wolver bite with only 3 less bars of HP.

Also, someone said Tsu is one of the best people around using a normal weapon. Me and my DVS, Azytra, have something to say about that. ;)

Does Three Rings really have a reason to balance gameplay and add new content? Everyone eats up cosmetic promos, they're making serious bank just by keeping the status quo and providing new shinies for people to fight over.

They'd LOVE to get some Asian/SA servers, but the cost is extremely high.

How hard can it be to run an MMO on an Asian server? There are more MMOs in Korea than there's fire in FSC.

"That being said, a lot of Normal damage weapons are worse than the Suda. I laugh at the idea that an Iron Slug is somehow acceptable in Tier 3. Valiance, Neutralizer, Supernova."

I own a Valiance, it's AMAZING. It has a use that other guns don't. If it had a counterpart with specialized damage, then no one would want a Valiance. But trust me, Valiance is...great. I love it. I want to MARRY it. The only argument is that its charge attack is crap in PvE, but it's AMAZING in PvP. I used to always get around 2k to 4k damage in LD, that is when I was using Callahan + Faust. Now, with Valiance + Faust, I get a consistent 5k to 8k damage, with a ton of caps.

Anyways, +1 to everything Tsu has said :3

EDIT :
"Hey, here's a better idea - delete every single piece of gear except the "Optimizer" gear, and give everyone who lost gear that way some coupons to get replacement gear, and have it automatically heated to level 10 (to make up for the lost heat on the deleted gear). Look at that, it gets the same results, only it's now your equipment and playstyle that's being attacked."

Worst. Idea. Ever.

As far as I know, even Tsubasa-No-Me does not use the Cautery Sword. It's simply unusable... such a pity, there are so many 5* ideas for it!

-Enemies by themselves are alright -although some may come as borderline cheap without the right equipment. A buff on Alpha Wolvers would be interesting, since at T3 they're just a major nuisance rather than a major threat.

-Players are fine as they are. I understand you guys want no invincibility frames in T3, except it'll make enemies harder and then everyone will ask to nerf them and THAT'S NO GOOD!

-I see the problem here indeed with armors. The only guardian armor in the game that gives "more defense" than all the other 5* gear is the Ancient Plate Set -out of the 3 5* guardian armor sets no less.
And then the shields that accompany these sets: high shield health and high normal defense. Yeah sure it's useful in T1 and T2 sorta, but T3? Where enemies do close to no normal damage? Now if normal resistance meant being resistant to all damage types then it would be damn good to be a guardian, but as matters stand being a Guardian is worse than being a normal-type gunner.

-Ah yes, Normal weapons. Last time I used one was a Brandish. Anyway a (moderate) critical hit chance for pure-normal weapons only will most surely make them interesting. Sad thing is, Normal weapons are Normal, and everyone wants to see big yellow numbers pop up each time they swing a sword/shoot a gun/plant a bomb.

-Stun, for how glorious it is, is quite glitchy. I remember a stunned vana hitting a comrade twice once upon a time. Poison is also by far the most useless status and I wouldn't mind if it had a buff. As for Fire, making it hit each second instead of each 2 seconds would also prove to make it more efficient -although more deadly in FSC.

-As for an Asian/Korean/Aussie server, it is something that none of us can do for if OOO can't afford anymore of such.

I agree with the OP on most points. The balance in this game is rather bad no matter how you look at it.

Armor Balance - Yes, the equipment balance in this game is very bad. The defensive armors only allow one extra hit at most compared to the offensive armors, and do not provide any offensive bonuses. In PVE, there is no possible "Tank" because that tank will die in seconds despite him wearing "Tanking" armor. As a gunner, there is no good reason for me to use anything other than the cowboy sets because for a gunner nothing comes close to touching them. The offensive and defensive bonuses are just too much.

Remember, a better offense will also make a better defense because a dead monster cannot hurt you.

Invincibility Frames - Very controversial, but the fact remains that they are exploitable and the ruin the mechanics of weapons in PVP. In PVE, you can use them to take one hit, and avoid many, many hits or walk across a path of spikes to safety. It also makes taking on a mob of monsters too easy because only one can damage you at a time. If you get hit by ten mobs at the same time, you should take damage from all ten of them, not just one. Same goes for players, of course. Also, the mechanics of weapons are ruined because they were made to work in environment where they do not have to face invincibility frames. How is this so?

In PVE, you attack monsters, which have no invincibility frames. Weapons work fine here.

In PVP, you attack knights who have invincibility frames. Because weapons were not made to work in this environment, most (if not all) in some way has it's mechanics messed up.

Every weapon that was meant to be able to hit fast, or has charges that hit multiple times in an instant, are immediately hampered because the invincibility frames do not allow them to hit like they should. People cannot attack the same target together because the invincibility frames will completely cancel out most of the teams attacks.

Normal Damage - As much fun as some normal damage weapons are to use (Like Valiance), they are completely outclassed. Not just in damage, but also in utility. The attributed weapons not only come with extra damage against two monster types, they also tend to come with utility designed especially for those monster types. Flourishes not only do bonus damage to wolvers and fiends, it also interrupts them so they cannot attack or dodge, which happens to be very effective against them. You could use a valiance or a Volcanic Pepperbox on contructs, but the elemental alchemers will not only do more damage, but inflict them with a status effect to boot. Also, before anyone mentions Volcanic Pepperbox having fire, let me remind you that the magma driver not only sets fire, but will also out damage it with it's charge shots. There is no contest in Polaris vs Supernova. The only reason why Nitronome is viable right now is because there is hardly any competition for it. Even then, it's not the best thing to use in a party. Why take a Leviathan when you can just take a Brandish and freeze/set fire/shock a crowd of mobs from a distance?

Sadly, being just neutral to everything is not enough because why be neutral to everything when you can be exceptional to everything? It needs more utility than the specialized weapons or it needs to be able to out damage them on neutral mobs.

Monsters - Monsters need to be smarter. Right now, they just head over to you and try to attack you at the spot you were standing at. The only exception to this are devilites, which actually try to do something more. Maybe Lizards could deathmark you or something while they are invisible, which they need to be completely invisible. Stuff like that would help make monsters more difficult.

Statuses - poison's could be stronger, but the main problem I see with it is that it does not last long enough. Poison doesn't go for killing things instantly, it hinders the target to make taking them down easier. If it were to last as long as curse (maybe longer?) I'm sure people would be more cautious about getting poisoned. Also, freeze does deal damage on natural thaw because I have killed monsters by just letting them thaw out. Weapons that stun could use an increase in stun rate, I know my Callahan does not even stun wolvers all that much.

Knights - The problems listed with knights seem to be caused by other parts listed. If those were fixed, I'm sure knights would fix themselves too. Only thing is the party health display should show more than 20 pips of health....

Overall, completely balancing the game will not happen overnight, because there is so much to do. Would make the game a lot more interesting though.

Sadly, Your brother....I uh killed...>:3

@Home-Grown-Hero

You killed my bro?

>:O

/bearhugs Home-Grown-Hero

EDIT: Here I go acting childish again...sorry for derailing the thread