Spiral Knights - So... Stun is broken.

So... Stun is broken.

65 replies [Last post]

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 18:05

Serell

OOO obviously does not read bug reports.
They sent this bug report that was in General Discussion to Bug Reports : http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/61600
But...
They did not send this that is in Bug Reports right now to Gremlin Chatter : http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/61234

So I'm putting my bug report here, and I'll quote Draycos on what is wrong with stun :

"Enemies' animations are slowed but their actual attack is normal speed. Enemies may deal damage and finish their attack the moment they are stunned, and can attack again with this after their normal attack. In rare cases, instant damage can be done and then the normal attack hits anyways later. Additionally, enemies can move immediately after attacking if Stum wears off mid-animation. In other cases, if stunned mid-animation and the stun is there until the animation finishes, this causes them to be stuck in the end of the animation for the amount of time they would have taken if they attacked with Stun from the start (this will ALWAYS happen to players).

I can understand needing new content, but leaving a broken status in the game and not doing anything to fix it for months isn't exactly a good idea. This status can do more harm than good in many cases, making stunning weapons a hazard."

I will bump this everyday, and shove this bug report in OOO's faces until they tell me what's wrong. They have an entire status that has been broken since forever.... they don't need to tell me when to expect it to be fixed, they need to say what's wrong.

EDIT : I won't bump this everyday, for I don't want to clutter the General Discussion forums, but I will continue to bump my other bug report of Stun that is in Bug Reports.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 18:11

Glacies

The only possible explanation

The only possible explanation is because they actually have no idea how to fix this bug and they would rather just leave it in the dark than say "We currently do not have the current knowledge how to fix this bug. We are very sorry for any inconvenience you have had." Which honestly I can understand a bit because in most cases, it makes developers look like complete jokes.

I could be completely wrong but at the rate this is going, this honestly seems to be the case.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 18:14

Little-Juances

Random guess on how to fix it: make first hit interrupt all movement (shock spam)

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 18:47

Artistbma

PLUS ONE!

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 18:50

Grittle

Well, for the 105th time...

Well, for the 105th time... +1

Now, if you find gentlemen will excuse me, I'm going to read a book about condensation.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 19:15

Ysser

OP being OP

"OOO obviously does not read bug reports"

OBVIOUSLY! That's why they've never patched a single bug. I swear, they're out to get you, Serell. They just want to ruin the game for you.

"I will bump this everyday, and shove this bug report in OOO's faces until they tell me what's wrong. They have an entire status that has been broken since forever.... they don't need to tell me when to expect it to be fixed, they need to say what's wrong"

Careful, your entitlement is showing. It's not exactly a game-breaking bug so it's understandable that it hasn't yet been addressed. You should really calm down and realize that OOO doesn't owe you anything and it is likely that all legible bug reports are addressed. Things take time.

Another thing to remember is that OOO is a team, not a singular entity, so they're able to produce new content while simultaneously tweaking and improving game in an awe-inspiring process known as "multi-tasking".

It's time to put down the pitchfork and tinfoil hat.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 19:29

Serell

...

Well, they kind of are ruining the game for me. I like stun. Suits my personality... but it's killling me T_T

Sorry if some entitlement is showing, I am just really ticked. This is something they SHOULD say like good people, they don't owe it to me. All they need to say is "it's something that's really hard to fix and is going to take a long time".

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 19:32

Aplauses

GM PLEASE FIX THIS

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 19:40

Draycos

Hurr

It's not game breaking, sure. That doesn't mean it should be bugged since who knows how long ago. They fixed Jellies' spikes hitting beyond barriers, they removed the crown-dropping breakable barriers in the first version of the UFSC entrance, they removed a walkable wall in IMF... All of those fixed in much shorter timespans than Stun, which gets a bigger difference every minute.

The team is kind of small even if it is a team; there have been times Nick has said that the artwork for stuff is done and it just needs coding. There's only around 2~3 people coding IIRC... and if they did have free hands and still haven't set aside any time across for fixing stun instead of other bugs or content then that just makes it worse.

I can agree with the rest, though. Kind of.

And no, I am NOT taking it off yet. I like my hat. :(

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 20:01

Traevelliath

Ever thought that programming just MAYBE is harder than just typing "Delete: Stun Glitch" or "int numBugs = 0"

It is somewhat game-breaking, I'll admit that. It makes Stagger kinda... unreliable. At the same time, if it was easy to fix, it would have been fixed long ago IMO.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 20:11

#10

Serell

T_T

I know programming is hard and is more than "delete stun glitch". I'm just saying they need to tell us why it's taking so long to fix...

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 21:37

#11

Tsubasa-No-Me

It's really discouraging...

That they don't really seem to answer questions that much... Feedback is great! I mean, it helps us by letting Us know that they arn't just a 3rd person entity with no soul...

It'b be great to have questions answered with a little more... errr... What's the word... A little less vaugeness... I mean, it's easy to let us know WHAT the problem is... like, if the stun problem is caused by stun trying to stop the animation, doing so, but triggering the Attack's hitbox.

I mean, then the more intelligent, or codebound players can donate their advice. Screw the immature, selfish people that are the (Well, mostly the) younger generation. Most of Us would like to help in some way... If ywe can't disscuss it here, rthen we should Find a Way to Do so. ;'ya know?

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 22:02

#12

Lskyx

Ikr

OOO's Stun is just a fail. They just need to re-make stun as a whole. When I stun someone in-real-life they dont get an invisible animation that hits me before there movement.

uh... not that I do that to people /wink

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 22:07

#13

Derpules

I don't care how difficult it is to fix.

What's bothersome is the silence. A simple "we've known of this for a long time and are still trying to find a way of fixing this that wouldn't cause more problems than it solves" would satisfy me. At least I would know they're working on it.

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 22:18

#14

Draycos

@Tsu

Personally (if that last bit included me), I just wish they'd give us some idea of what's wrong or an ETA on a fix...

Sun, 08/05/2012 - 23:32

#15

Undercorper

Erm...

If I agreed with this, I would be a traitor.

-1

But Knights already have too much on their plates.

Negative one plus one is zero.

Bow before my math skills.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 00:47

#16

Diamondshreddie

7 Suggestions!

Well, the fact stands, obvious and proud; Stun doesnt do what it's supposed to do.

So, heres some suggestions on how to fix it!

1) Cause stun to CANCEL an attack entirely if it is applied in the middle of an attack. (monsters and players)

2) Cause Stun once the entity is not attacking (monsters)

3) Cause stun to prolong it's effect after dissipearing in the middle of an attack, and stop once the attack finishes (monster and players)

4) Cause stun to cancel an attack if the status dissapears in the middle of one (monsters and players)

5) Cause stun to only affect move speed and RATE of attack [Charge time increase as well] (Monster and Players)

6) Cause stun to, insted of slowing attack speed(save for turrets), have it not allow dodging, or special attacks if applicable [ie. slag jump, retrode sneeze, mecha charge, gremlin bomb spam, gremlin wrench spin, gremlin revive, trojan shockwave, slime spikes, lichen formation, chroma cloak, wolver howl, quicksilver jolt, oiler fart, toxigel SPIN, Overtimer Promotion](monsters) or not allow weapon switch(players)

7) Instant death (the people who wouldnt care/wont reveal why they neglect) to have stun fixed

Hope my contributions helped!!! Thanks for posting, this was due for a code red.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 06:42

#17

Doctorspacebar

@Undercorper:

Your danged Overtimers can Stun, too, as well as those Greavers you keep as office pets (insert heavy amounts of profanity directed at Greavers here). Which means WE can double-strike THEM. I think you've got quite a bit vested in this.

I like Diamond's ideas.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 07:00

#18

Thunderbog

STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN

STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN STERN

Oh wait, it's called 'stun'.

WHY CAN'T WE JUST STAND STILL IF STUNNED?!

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 07:05

#19

Xylka-Mkii

couldn't log in to +1 this

couldn't log in to +1 this last night,

...so +1

If OOO decided to actually stop with content updates for awhile, and instead work through a ton of bugs already present in the game, then that would be fine. But we did ask for more content, and we're getting it now, so might as well just go with it. If stun was taken out for awhile like sleep and worked on, then it could really work out better in the future. Not much we can do now though.

EDIT:
New idea for a possible fix: Stun will cancel any attack, and send the player knocked back, such as after using the Callahan charge, except maybe less of a jump. Put that in somewhat slow motion and you've got a mediocre fix for the player side.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 09:12

#20

Pauling

For crike's sake. I suspect

For crike's sake. I suspect that this bug has been entered in their bug tracking database, but that doesn't mean that they individually respond to every report they receive. Stun wasn't worth much even before the bug, so in all likelihood, this just hasn't been a priority to fix. Remember, the ringers know which vials and weapons aren't used much, and their limited team of coders probably has other things to do.

Sure, I'd vaguely like to see this fixed. I'd like even more to see sleep vials removed from the game. But both of these things are incredibly low priorities overall compared to new content, or even other bugs. (*!@%#^ revive interface...) I just hope that the ringers are better people than I am- if one rogue customer started whining this way, I'd probably drop the priority of the bug one notch for every time the guy bumped his thread.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 09:20

#21

Serell

....

Derpules is spot on. The silence is disturbing. All they have to say is, "we've known of this for a long time and are still trying to find a way of fixing this that wouldn't cause more problems than it solves". Stun has been broken forever. They need to say something about it. And, if they told is what's the problem, like Tsu said, we could help.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 12:39

#22

Hmmnm

OOO, drop danger missions and fooling aound with Sun shards. Those an wait.

Please fix existing problems before adding new content.

I would suggest moving this back to general discussion. This is no longer a bug report.
It is now a petition.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 21:24

#23

Serell

really, ooo?

A developer took his precious time to leave a comment there but couldn't just say here, "we've known stun is broken but it is really hard to fix is going to take a long time" .-.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/61534

I mean... Seerusly?
Oh. And don't tell me the wiki says they don't respond to bugs. They have done it before, Nick commented on the increased Trojan range bug.

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 22:59

#24

Derpules

@Pauling

"Sure, I'd vaguely like to see this fixed. I'd like even more to see sleep vials removed from the game. But both of these things are incredibly low priorities overall compared to new content, or even other bugs. (*!@%#^ revive interface...)"

In other words, not your priority = low priority. Gotcha.

(BTW, what revive bug?)

"I just hope that the ringers are better people than I am- if one rogue customer started whining this way, I'd probably drop the priority of the bug one notch for every time the guy bumped his thread."

I don't know about "better people", but I certainly hope they're better developers and businesspeople than you'd be. The more annoyed your customers got, the more you'd ignore them? That'll end well. . . .

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 23:18

#25

Rommil

+1 for stun fix

-1 for prioritizing it over new content (i.e. danger missions). [+1 for prioritizing it over any aesthetic updates, but not gameplay].

Mon, 08/06/2012 - 23:54

#26

Tsubasa-No-Me

"Stun wasn't worth much even

"Stun wasn't worth much even before the bug"
Errr, No. There is a work around for the Stun problem, that Stagger Storm.... There is a heck of alot less glitching on monsters that are constantly stunned. And you know what it does? Makes EVERYTHING derp to high heck. Many things, INCLUDING the dreaded Almirians, Cannot even TRY to attack. And the rest are so incredably derped, that they can only hit you if you LET them. It's Balanced with ALL of the other statuses. EXCEPT FOR THE FREAKING BUG! GOSH!

"I'd probably drop the priority of the bug one notch for every time the guy bumped his thread."
...Its a good thing you're not in charge then. <.<

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 19:50

#27

Serell

@Rommil

If you read what I've been saying, I'm not asking for them to fix it in this thread, I'm asking for them so say something about it, because the silence is disturbing.

This is actually what I would like to see in order :
New Construct Shock + Stun danger mission. (Stun isn't as buggy on players, and think about it, it would be a deadly combo like Poison+Fire. what do you do when you're shocked? Run to a safe place before you spasm. Stun will slow you down so you can't run to that safe place.)
Guild Hall Updates
Then Stun fix

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 20:53

#28

Tersakaff

Serell, let me...

-1+ year ago-
Players: "OOO! Our stun is broken!"
OOO: "Kay."
-6 months ago-
Players: "OOO! Our stun is still broken!"
OOO: "Yeah. Kay."
-now-
Players: "OOO! Stun broken stun broken!!!"
OOO: "WE JUST CAN'T FIX IT OKAY?"

Yep. That's what I'm expecting as a reply. More professional though.

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 21:20

#29

Serell

....

That reply will do just fine, though I would also appreciate it if they told us the problem.

Tue, 08/07/2012 - 22:13

#30

Pauling

Spam is never the answer. Admittedly, neither is snark.

I really should avoid hyperbole; I'm not very good at it, and- as a player, not an OOO employee- it's too easy for me to be snarky when someone bumps threads meaninglessly. Suffice to say, there's no reason why stun shouldn't be fixable. It may just not be a priority.

To address Serell's arguments, paraphrased below:
1. "Devs sometimes respond- look at this post by Boswick!": Boswick is an artist, and though he's reputedly one hep cat, he probably doesn't set day to day coding priorities. Nick oversees larger design issues, among many other things. Based on http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Developer : Curio and Gyre are probably the software engineers who could answer about day to day coding, and they don't post very often.

2. "This is the most important bug ever": For a long time, stun wasn't considered a high level option at all; in fact, the 5* haze bomb was an afterthought. Simply put, the community has mostly routed around this issue by choosing other weapons, so the day to day impact is minimal. In three minutes of thought, here are some other bugs that probably affect gameplay more than stun... Item stat bars are confusing and often inaccurate, with the same length bar meaning different things for different items or star level. The revive interface is downright homicidal, depending as it does on clicking a button whose function depends on where monsters are from one moment to the next. Status cloud bombs sometimes turn invisible in PvP, and fire animations render some rooms unplayable on older machines. Some status effects are ridiculously overpowered, the word "brochure" is censored, alchemy machine tooltips are incorrect ("click to browse vendor"), lockdown classes aren't quite balanced, and items offer inconsistent benefits across the same line (ie divine veil / mantle). And with those bugs, the game is doing pretty well, and new features are continuously being developed.

3. "I deserve a response": Bear in mind that the ringers are nice, and they do have a vested interest in seeing the new stun bombs become viable gameplay options. If you continue with your campaign, you may get a response, and even a fix... but it won't be because your bug report is inherently more significant than others. (Especially given that your initial report didn't even adequately describe the problem!!)

Personally, I hope that *all* the bugs I named get fixed, including the problems with stun. But I just don't think that the cause is advanced by acting entitled and launching a bumpspam campaign.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 07:58

#31

Fehzor

@Pauling's "This is the most important bug ever!" = false

Stun is one of the most common status effects, and it plays a strong role in the game... to the point of it being on almost every level. The fact that players work around it should not change its priority for the worse either. Stun is serious business.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 12:35

#32

Unholyurine

inb4 Sleep is even more

inb4 Sleep is even more broken
in that it is completely useless.

Wed, 08/08/2012 - 15:32

#33

Tsubasa-No-Me

"Item stat bars are confusing

"Item stat bars are confusing and often inaccurate"
I know how they work. Really.

"Status cloud bombs sometimes turn invisible in PvP,"
that's Cull Transits. And They warned people about stuff like that. Your choice to use.

"Some status effects are ridiculously overpowered, "
If you THINK about it, it's actually balanced. Save for the stun glitch, and Poison.

"the word "brochure" is censored, alchemy machine tooltips are incorrect ("click to browse vendor"),"
Utterly irrelevant, and have little to no effect on the game. Stun, however, is an ACTUAL mechanic, that affects how players can PLAY the game. Not chat, not look at a Little tool tip that can easily cure confusion by Clicking and OPENING the alchemy machine. =.(\

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 03:16

#34

Heatsurge

Cross-post from Suggestions

Cross-post from Suggestions forum (more specific info):

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/49318

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 14:14

#35

Tersakaff

"inb4 Sleep is even more broken"
Given that it's gonna get re-implemented soon enough,
I wonder actually... how the heck is that gonna work ?

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:39

#36

Zeddy

Merp

Broken stun is a big reason the new Radiant Sun Shards are hated. The priority of this bug is just bigger now.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:46

#37

Nick

Developer

We are aware of this issue

We are aware of this issue and are working to fix it, but it's a tricky one. Thank you for your patience.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:48

#38

Serell

Woot!

Thank you so much Nick :D
This is all I wanted. Stun is big enough of a problem to be addressed, and you addressed it.
For that you get hugs, even though you ruined my ISB in LD.
/e hugs Nick

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:53

#39

Oatmonster

Lick

/e slaps Serell

It's too soon for that.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:53

#40

Aplauses

-__-

@Nick
Isn't it too late to fix it? You should aware this earlier.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:56

#41

Little-Juances

About 'priorities' and 'new content'.... by fixing stun, new possibilities open. It'd be a win-win on that aspect.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 15:59

#42

Gwenyvier

@Aplauses

Coding is not nearly as easy to fix as many of the posters here think. You can not just go in and type in /removebugs and they're all gone. You have to go through, line by line to see where it is, and even when you find it fixing it can break many more things. Anybody remember when the idle animations were added and knights were going invisible?

~Gwen

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 16:03

#43

Diamondshreddie

hoo weeha

Im glad, so glad just to know that they are AWARE, let alone in the works for a solution. This is long overdue, but i am still ever grateful.

im also hoping that we will soon see tweaks to some of the problems with the new bombs, and other weapons, shields, and also armors that are not up to snuff, like irontech and BAB were, thanks for buffing those a little as well ! But for now the most pressing issue at hand is being thankfully adressed, it's alot easier to have hope when you get even the slightest feedback. thanks!

I look forward to all of the content updates regarding equipment and levels that are to come in the future of spiral knights.

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 16:22

#44

Tersakaff

"We are aware of this issue and are working to fix it, but it's a tricky one. Thank you for your patience."

I told you.
They don't know how to fix it.
DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT
LET ME SHOVE THAT IN YOUR FACE OOO :')

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 16:28

#45

Zeddy

Thanks Nick

I knew you weren't cranking out new stun weapons without at least trying to fix it.

As a programmer, I can imagine why this particular bug is integrated into a lot of parts of the game mechanics and as such must be carefully tested as to whether or not fixing it doesn't just present even more problems.

Thanks for not leaving us hanging here

Thu, 08/09/2012 - 17:20

#46

Hmmnm

A bit late...

But thanks for letting us know you're working on it.

Still, this thread will remain up until it is fixed.

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 00:07

#47

Asukalan

""We are aware of this issue

""We are aware of this issue and are working to fix it, but it's a tricky one. Thank you for your patience.""

I wonder if it has something to do with a fact that one of their lead programmers left.

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 01:20

#48

Tersakaff

Why did that happen I'm so curious omg. :(

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 03:50

#49

Heatsurge

So Nick, why can't you make

So Nick, why can't you make stun start with a "idle" status, interrupting any attacks kinda like shock does? Wouldn't that be the easiest solution for "stun start"? I'm not sure about the "stunned->unstun" change though... that would be tricky.

Fri, 08/10/2012 - 04:23

#50

Shoebox

Why did that happen I'm so

Why did that happen I'm so curious omg. :(

Because he was working on Spiral Knights for several years and wanted to do something different?

Search

So... Stun is broken.