Spiral Knights - Buffing and Nerfing Gear, Enemies, and Statuses

Buffing and Nerfing Gear, Enemies, and Statuses

28 replies [Last post]

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 13:29

Draycos

No intro for you.

GEAR

1. Change the Hunting Blade series to deal half pierce. WHB would now do what its flavor text implies it does.

2. Change both Divine armor items to give +Fiend Medium, as opposed to a single piece. Self explanatory.

3. Change Arcane Salamander's Slime/Beast bonuses to Undead/Fiend, and change its Elemental defense to Shadow defense. Cut its Fire resist down a bit, but add Curse resist. Replace Volcanic Salamander's Slime bonus with Construct/Gremlin (low). Turn Deadly Virulisk's Slime bonus into a Low and add a Beast bonus. This will allow these lines to live up to their 'specialist' name without outright surpassing other lines.

4. Change the Bombastic Demo lines to Piercing defense and Mad Bomber to Shadow defense. Why do the other weapon families get multiple resists, but Demomen are stuck with Elemental?

5. Change the Azure Guardian lines to resist all four damage types all-around with slight resists to all statuses. Alternatively, give each piece a universal +Damage Low. For other possibilities, see Luguiru's ideas.

6. Give the Plate lines substantially higher health or defense, much more than they already do, including their respective shields. Or, look at what Luguiru thought up.

7. Give the Almirian set higher overall health and amp up its Shadow defense and Curse resist. (IE, make it the Shadow-defense Plate armor.)

8. Amp up the Grey Feather line's Elemental defense, or give it 'team armor' as Luguiru imagines.

9. Decrease the strength of the Brandish lines' statuses and explosions, with the exception of Acheron. For a more uniqueness-friendly approach, look at what Luguiru has.

10. Reduce the Blitz Needle's charge attack to what it was before the Gunner buffs. It's too bloody powerful.

11. Give the Dark Retribution a slightly higher movement penalty while charging. It's ease of use is a little too prevalent, but otherwise, it's fine.

12. Give the Graviton Vortex a slight damage boost (20%), and remove its knockback on the explosion. For control over carnage (which will differentiate it from Electron Vortexes), another Luigiroo link.

13. Fix Shard Bombs' bugs. Nothing to say here that hasn't been beaten to death before.

14. Something something Big Angry Bomb, something something Irontech Destroyer. Raggle fraggle Ancient Plate. Beep boop, Iron Slug.

15. Troikas.

I feel like I'm forgetting some equips, but whatever.
________________________________________________
ENEMIES

1. Give all Beast enemies very slight tracking in Tier 2, and give them their pre-nerf tracking in Tier 3. Maybe give 'em a ranged enemy, at that.

2. When Wolvers decide to run away, don't let them teleport towards players when they're shot at.

3. Give Chromalisks complete invisibility, appearing translucent for a short time only every now and then, until they take damage or attack.

4. Remove Red Rovers' flamethrower attacks (Fire-status Gun Puppies), or give them to the fire variants of the other turrets as well.

5. Give Retrodes and Skellies a very slight tracking ability in T3.

6. Gives normal devilites, not overtimers a slight decrease in tracking ability.

7. Prevent Greavers from chasing players until they actually see them.

8. Prevent Menders from being able to revive other Menders, and remove their ability to spawn more than one healing circle. Buff their shield health.

9. Give Gremlin Knockers slight tracking ability, or allow them to attack much faster.

10. Give Yesmen the ability to heal their Pit Boss and other surrounding friends.

11. Prevent Gremlins from becoming 'idle' until ALL players are down.

12. Give Vanaduke a sweeping attack, only to be used when he's been frozen (provided the changes in the Statuses section below aren't used).

13. Limit how many bombs a Gremlin Demo can drop due to taking hits, or redo how the drop criteria is met. Mist bombs cause them to be walking explosions.

14. Fix Snarby's occasional nonsense where he can't be stunned even when he's right on top of the bell.

15. Stop the Roarmulus Twins from moving north and south until BOTH of them are in Phase 2.

16. I feel like I'm forgetting something here, as well. Oh well.
_________________________
I used to have some status stuff here but I asploded it because it was unrealistic and silly. Balance and fun aren't always hand in hand..

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 14:16

Juances

GEAR
2- Sure
5- Distributing defense to all types would give so low proetction that it'd be useless. An universal damage is viable on 5*, but OP for T2.
9- Decrease explosion damage or make Acheron better. But leave the statuses as is.
10- YES
11- NO
12- Might balance lack of shock

ENEMIES
1- Sure
2- the teleport shoudl remain somewhat random, altought improved so this doesnt happen often.
4- I like uniqueness, like quicksilver lichens.
10- silwings are fiend healers. If yesmen turn into healers, wings could switch families... beast maybe?
14- Sure, bugs shoudl be fixed

STATUSES
You're turning freeze into stun. Same goes for shock. And again for poison. Why does every status have to cause slowdowns?

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 14:32

Draycos

@Juances

G5- Yeah, I implied 5*. All-around protection, so it actually does what it says on the tin.

G9- Brandishes are pretty dang OP as is; I'm looking for a nerf with an exclusion, not an isolated buff.

G11- Why not?

G12- Might? Course it will!

E2- Fair enough.

E4- The problem is that the flamethrowers are the Gremlin Burners' thing; that being said, a standard T3 turret is much more dangerous than a flamethrower turret. Maybe if it was a little more dangerous, outside of a raw damage buff?

E10- Yeah, Beast would probably be the best bet for them. But at the same time, there's Greavers..

Statuses- I know this sounds ridiculous, but I just want the statuses to be in-line with eachother with their own sort of gimmick. Freeze is ridiculous versus enemies, Shock is ridiculous versus players, and Poison is just a little bit underwhelming. How would you do it?

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 15:01

Shotjeer

Suggestion¡

You and enemies should be stunned for 2-5 seconds if you get thawed, but not if you get your ice broken. I think this would be nice cuz it actually makes sense(ur cold, right?).

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 15:11

Draycos

@ShotjeerI was thinking

@Shotjeer

I was thinking about that myself! I'd think that disabling your shield would be better than outright stunning you, though. Like Juances said, I've got a bit too much stun-disguised-as-something-else..

A friend of mine mentioned that turn speeds should be lowered the greater the level of Freeze is, but given how players can turn instantly, would that work as well as it sounds? Perhaps something could be done to limit player-based turnspeed? I'd think it'd be pretty tricky..

One way to do it might be to modify turning for enemies only. Thoughts?

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 15:13

Shotjeer

@Draycos finally someone agrees with my ideas...

If youve ever played WoT or World of Tanks, the turret turn speed is quite slow. OOO could request that coding if that's too much of a challenge.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:03

The-Rawrcake

"FREEZE- Remove the

"FREEZE- Remove the unfreeze-when-hit mechanic and replace it with gradual-unfreeze-when-hit."

Freeze is already a great utility status without this change, though.

"Allow enemies and allies alike to copy their current Fire status with contact."

YES, +1, I WANT THIS! I want it to be that when a room is on fire, the room is on fire.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:15

Draycos

@Rawrcake I thought it'd be best to give it non-instant defrost with the other changes. Part of me wants an indirect Shivermist 'nerf' while still making it relevant and without Freeze being any less hazardous.

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:23

Grittle

...

GEAR

1. +1

2. +1

3. Meh... Could work

4. Meh... +1

5. I would rather have only the 5* variant have the universal defense stuff, otherwise, the universal Dsamage buff is alright with all

6. +1

7. +1

8. +1

9. +1

10. +1, and buff the pepperbox while yer doing it

11. -1, why???

12. +1

13. +10

14. +10

15. +1

Wait... no Jelly armor buffs???? D:
________________________________________________
ENEMIES

1. +1

2. +1

3. +1

4. -1, I like non-repetitive enemies, don't you?

5. +1

6. +1

7. +1

8. +1 to revive nerf and Shield buff, -1 to everything else

9. +1

10. Only Pit Boss, then you shall have a deal

11. +1

12. +1

13. +1

14. +1

15. +1

No Polyp or Jelly buffs?
________________________________________________
STATUSES

Uhhhh, No comment

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 20:41

Magnicth

And she's buying the stairway to heaven.....

Huh. These suggestions are actually quite solid. I especially like the suggestion for the chroma set lines. Monster and status suggestions look good as well. I am a bit disappointed however that you neglected the winmillion, cautery sword, and the heavy deconstructor. As for a suggestion for iron slug, it's still long overdue for a buff.

Overall, nice suggestions. +37

~Magnicth

Sun, 01/20/2013 - 22:38

#10

Luguiru

Oh boy gosh golly gee, something to do before going back to writing my Spiralmon stuff. That was a genuine "oh boy gosh golly gee", not one of those fake ones going around pretending to be a real boy.

Equipment

Cutters may not be perfect but they work pretty well. Wild Hunting needs a buff more than Dread Venom, preferably a higher rate of interruption, but Dread Venom is decent. Some people are still going to take Cutters and flop around all into enemies mindlessly and get themselves killed but that backhand slaps them enough to either find a simpler sword to use or sit down for a while and figure out that two plus two is more than three.
There is no reason that should not already be the case. Triple Nostril sure likes to take their time fixing something so obviously wrong, not that they play the game on the same grounds we do.
Arcane seems like it would have shadow defense, but since most of the other Stinky Larnx armors have shadow defense maybe Thong Wringers wanted to have a little variety. Give Mercurial someone to talk to.
Seen this in other threads, same agreement and discontent with Triceratops Donuts. Bomber pride, baby.
I have my own version of changing it, but whichever rolls is fine. People like damage.
I also have a couple things for this.
This makes me think about adding that armor set to my list of stuff I want to add to my own big thread to make it bigger. Feeding the elephant.
I also have something though slightly different than yours. No big deal.
I got two of them tackled, been procrastinating for the other two; not including Cautery. That thing deserves its own changes to make it unique.
A lot of people have said the same thing, some came up with nerfs, you probably guessed what I have to say about it.
That bomb is weird. Whenever I derp around in an Arcade pickup group and end up with another 4*+ player, after a floor or two, they grab a Seerus bomb and spam it mindlessly at every opportunity until they die at least once. It takes more than DRetribution and Shivermist to make you a bomber, derp.
Graviton is an amazingly unique weapon. It has the power of gravity. Being distracted by the powers of hell aside, I also have something for this. A damage buff would be alright but Graviton is more tactical than tenacious.
The new shard bombs are a lot more tactical reliant than most other bombs. Just to stay consistent here is my link, but I have more to say before moving on. When they announced they were going to change the shard bombs they also said there would be new bombs. Those "new" bombs turned out to be reskins of the changed shard bombs. That was one of the most disgusting money grabs I have ever seen any MMO do. I think I got some fire out of my furnace for now.
I have an outdated buff for Big Angry since the change that increased its blast radius along with Irontech, though I would like to see a bomb that specializes in high damage to smaller areas. Concentrated explosions. Not all demolition has to be obnoxiously huge.
You know what would be interesting for Troikas? Immunity to being interrupted while swinging. Courtesy of Tsubasa.

I am going to skip over family changes because I am working on (you probably know what the rest of this sentence is going to say, just skip this) my own set of enemy changes in the same thread I have constantly been giving links to. Crunchy frogs.

Fire deals normal damage right now, right? I remember saying this in another thread, but here it goes: make fire damage deal a completely independent damage type simply called "fire". Not normal, element, shadow, pierce, or underwear. The only defense against "fire" damage is fire resistance. Snort.
You know how weapons have different rates of status affliction, like "good chance of inflicting strong"? I think I made a little table of degrees and durations somewhere, but getting to the point: statuses have their own scales, so why not have that scale include more drastic effects rather than duration and damage? It would make weapons that inflict statuses with higher duration rates (duration also being severity; higher means more damage if the status involves inflicting damage to the afflicted) better. Including Brandishes with their exploding-ranged-charge-attack-pixie-wand-lasers. What the li-
What if freeze messed with defense abilities used by/on the frozen object? If a knight gets frozen their shield is ~75% as efficient until thawed, if a Mender is frozen and tries to heal their healing rate is lowered by ~25%, that kind of stuff.
Stun already does that. Does stun affect turning speed? That could be an interesting addition to poison.

Looks like it got a little late while derping this up, no Spiralmon stuff from me tonight. That everyone else is going to see. I write it in my email in case my compootur poops on itself unexpectedly. Not that I ever want that to happen. I thought I toilet trained the stupid thing already.

Mon, 01/21/2013 - 03:46

#11

Zeddy

@Luguiru

-Fire already deals fire damage unless they changed it in the last few weeks.
-Stun does not affect turning rate and it makes sun shards very useless against Vanaduke.

@Draycos
1. I'm on record for stating that WHB should be part pierce. My stance on normal damage has changed a bit since then and I haven't used these swords. However, the things have goddamn spikes on them so I agree.

2. Yes.

3. I think the damage bonuses should at least be medium. Family bonuses are unappreciated enough without having them be low.

4. Piercing and Shadow for demo suits. Sure why not.

5. Giving a little of each defence to Azure Guardian seems just about right. It would help sell the impression that other equipment specializes by lacking defences in places.

6. Now plate line, there's something I have opinions on. Health and defences are fine. Try using them along with a Venom Veiler. Here are some other things plate amours COULD use:
-Each 5* plate would give a shield buff. Ironmight would boost shield defence, Volcanic boost shield regen and Ancient boost shield health.
-Each piece gives at least universal damage low, maybe even medium. A guardian should be slow, but hard-hitting. Currently, the hard-hitting part is lacking but they've got the slow part down.
-Each piece should add interruption power equal to a high damage bonus.
-Each piece should add interruption resistance. When I'm swinging my giant slab of stone at a squishy wolver clone, they should not be able to stop my momentum by stabbing their tiny little toothpicks at my thick, hefty plate armour. That is just ridiculous.
-Maybe give Ironmight resistance to shock or something? It's no fair that Volcanic gets both a specialized defence and an extra status resist

Obviously not all of those at once, but one or two of them plus balancing Ironmight against Volcanic.

7-10. Sure

11. DR is a pretty powerful beast in PvE, so I can agree on this. Any thoughts on making it not-useless in PvP?

12. Are you aware that Gravity already does 15% more damage than Electron? Removing knockback sounds good.

13. No. Shard bombs do not need damage buffs, fuse buffs, shard count buffs or charge buffs. What shard bombs need is bug-fixes. ALL of these should be done:
-Shards should not be prevented from going through enemies. They should be able to spawn behind a Trojan right through its shield. They should be able to spawn under Vanaduke if you plant one next to him. They should be stopped by nothing short of an actual wall.
-Shards should have an increase in radius. Currently, the radius feels like a single pixel. Make triple-sharding something actually possible!
-Disappearing shards have GOT to go.
-The hit limit is holding these bombs back way too much. Increase the hit limit to at least 4 or even remove it entirely. At the very least fix the issue where chaining an enemy with core from current bomb + 2 shards from the previous bomb making the enemy invincible.

When you say 20% damage increase, which numbers are you using as a reference? Keep in mind that shard bombs gain more damage from damage bonuses than other weapons do. Let's compare Nitronome to Shard Bombs.

Nitronome: 214 227 241 254 268 291 295
Shard Bomb Shard: 95 105 116 128 137 146 155

Damage for Nitronome increases 38% while damage for the shard bomb shard increases 63%. The shard bomb core increases about 50%. Now, let's apply these numbers retroactively, so that 155 would be max damage if shard bombs gained damage at the same rate as Nitro. We'd get 112 damage, an increase from the current base of 18%. That's nearly 20% right there.

If you were using base damage as a reference when you said you wanted the damage increased 20%, then you already have it. All you need to do is use the bombs with damage bonuses. Shard bombs are meant as sort of an elite, super-expensive kind of thing, which is why they come in six different variants.

They still need serious help in Lockdown. Maybe something like randomizing the fuse for each shard, though that would break them in clockworks.

14. Ancient Plate is balanced against the other plate stuff. The normal defence is A LOT higher, and so is the health. Before arguing about Big Angry and Irontech, I would merely like to ask you about your experience with using them. Iron Slug needs a bit of a buff, and is due for one.

15. See Luguiru's reply.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 21:38

#12

Draycos

Reply time... I feel kind of bad because I've changed my views on some stuff a bit. I admit I threw some stuff out there just because I could, and I didn't touch base on the Iron Slug, Troika, etc. because those have been beaten to death already by people who've said what I would have said and more.

@Luguiru

1. Agreed.

2. Yep.

3. Variety in Shadow Lairs =/= variety in total. Merc Demo could probably function as Pierce, but then it'd be almost identical to typical Mercurial gear, so I'm not so sure they'd want to change it, even if it's a deserved change. Perhaps switch the defenses from Ele to Pierce and vice versa for standard Merc?

4. Woo!

5. I like the concept of 'team armor' a bit more than what I've got, honestly. But yeah, either way would work..

6. I like this more than flat boosts.

7. As I've dubbed it since the day it was discovered, right now it's little better than the Almirian Costume. So, good to hear; t's an elephant that should be fed anyways. Make it a dragon if you have to. I like that thread.

8. Team armor > flat bonuses, as I've said before.

9. Better than what I've got. Bleep.

10. +1

11. Yep.

12. The concept of Graviton having Freeze is a little unfitting and fitting at the same time. Higher suction time means situationally harder use but better crowd control. I like it.

13. I got lazy with this one and just slapped a damage boost on it. Shame on me.

14. +1

15. YES.

I'll have to watch your megathread then.

____________________________________________

@Zeddy

1. Aight.

3. You misunderstand; I don't mean split the medium bonus into low and give it to each piece, I mean give the mantle another medium.

6. Fair enough.

11. No multi-hit weapon will ever be useful in PvP until they adjust how PvP i-frames work.

12. Yes, and it pales in comparison to the power of Shock becoming exponentially more powerful the more enemies an Electron Vortex catches. See my response to Luigi.

13. See @L 13. I was too lazy to write anything about the bugs, my excuse being 'it's a given'.

14. I've used them, and although the health and normal defense is considerable, it's pretty bad outside of T1 where you don't need it because almost every enemy and their pet Wolver has specialized damage of some sort in other tiers.

15. Laziness.

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 23:53

#13

Quakeman

no pierce to cutter >:c i

1 :no pierce to cutter >:c i want to keep my jelly beating still working
4: but i love to use mad bomber at ice queen
10: mobility sacrified for that power , then you got a charge and sudently 3 bats dash at you , where are you all powerfullness now?
11: 4 gremlin with hammer coming and dark retrib is your only shadow weps , all others are elemental (vs red twins) those can speed pass you already with thier second hammer combo hit ... nope , its ok the way it is

monster
6. totaly agree , i hate those aimboters
12: i disagree every changes about vana
13: or dont fix it and allow us to have a trinket to spam bombs on take dmgs liek them
14: sure , i dont mind on normal snarby but in sl ... the bell need to be flawlessly used

FIRE- NOTHING BUT MORE DMGS ON MONSTER WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR ME , when i take on fire , even with fire protection armor i loose lot of health , why monster only loose 1/10~1/20 health ? especialy taking in consideration there might me a monster somewhere not wearing ALL elemental dmgs protection

SHOCK- dmg is correct , but why not all enemy flinch on the damage frame? i know sometime thier jump or dash attacks just dont work at all but there is no visual feedback about when they flinch and aint gonan move on attacks or not

POISON- EVEN LOWER DMGS DONE AND HIGER DMGS RECIVED ... poison is suposed to destroy your imunity system and make your everything feels wrong , not 5% weaker

FREEZE- wouldnt say no to multiple hit recived by friend or enemy before it break so you dont waste a vial you saved for a specific enemy and then a friend shoot any alchemer and it bounce on the enemy by accident and ruin your atemp on keeping it in place while charging a bomb or sword

SLEEP- remove heal status exept on monsters (because players will still abuse of it (thats why it was removed on the first place))and make the player "fake die" where a teamate have to wake you up. enemies know your not dead and keep kick you , you wake up after a specified amount of hit (not amount of dmgs) wich mean you might survive small enemies like jellies , but for sure die for sleeping vs a trojan

Fri, 01/25/2013 - 23:33

#14

Mrgrey

Simply commenting for cutters

1. There have been a bunch of threads on this, and I want things to change for cutters. I think WHB should be split pierce/normal and then give it strong chance of causing moderate stun, while removing the added bonus to beasts (because let's be honest, the beast family isn't hard to kill in comparison to fiends). (keeping it's current damage overall, just half of it pierce). Also, the interruption only really needs buffing in T3, and with parties. I solo with it, and it interrupts fine :). Though in comparison to the FF, it's probably one of the worst "Hunting Blades" ever now. The DVS is good for the most part, but considering the fact that the Biohazard has both a GOOD chance of (moderate) poison, AND SHADOW damage, the DVS's use (mainly for JK runs) is kind of pointless. Why go in with the DVS and a shadow gun, when you could go in with 2 shadow weapons, one of which deals poison. They should change the DVS to more common possibility of poison maybe? I'd say give it shadow damage, but then it would be better than the biohazard by a lot. I honestly think they should add a dual-wield cutter line starting at 4*, where the 5* does full bar of normal damage (like the FF does of piercing). That way we have options like the flourish line does.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 00:08

#15

Draycos

Replying at 1 AM. Oh dear. Future me, I preemptively apologize if I say something silly.

@Quakeman 1. DVS could retain half-normal or stay the same, so one branch could be used for utility. It wouldn't be too great otherwise. Since you and Mrgrey both mention it's used for jellies primarily, and while I see people using it for fun in general areas, perhaps it could be a Normal/Shadow mix? We're low on Shadow weapons anyways.

4. Jellies =/= Elemental. If anything, elemental defense would help with the occasional Lumber, and given the general mobility of bombers... Besides, it's like saying I love Vog for its ASI bonuses, so I want it to be changed to Shadow defense so I can use it against Fiends more reliably. It just isn't done. There are bonuses, and then there's defenses; having a set for each defense is more priority than bonuses. See the failed Chroma lines... a good idea gone bad.

11. It is not okay the way it is. You can spam it all you want with no repercussions, no knockback, just massive damage against groups of enemies. I don't even have damage mods, only CTR Ultra, and it rends larger enemies or big groups. Not even my ASI Max and Damage VH Acheron or Gran Faust compares with the sheer power it presents. It doesn't have to take a huge hit to movespeed, just one that makes it so enemies aren't so easy to kite. Concerning your example, every bomber and their dog knows you can drop your attack and shield in a pinch.

______________________________

@Mrgrey

I'd say keep it's bonus to Beasts, since it's going to need that if it'll be split-damage and not pure to keep up with Flourishes in the 'cuts through beasts like butter' department. Maybe give it a higher innate bonus and a penalty to Fiends, I don't know. Let's not balance gear based on how hard its subject enemy is, but how it compares to other gear in potential.

I've noticed some weapons interrupt enemies easier when playing in smaller groups, yes.

A shadow DVS is an interesting and fitting concept. It wouldn't be imbalanced just by surpassing Biohazard, since that poor gun is pretty subpar...

A normal Cutter would be neat to fill in for what we'd no longer have, yes, but I'm not too big of a fan of the dual wielding nonsense unless it's just aesthetic; otherwise, it might not be a Cutter anymore, but something else entirely.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 00:46

#16

Quakeman

@Draycos i agree about low

@Draycos i agree about low USEFULL shadow weapons (mostly bombs since dark retribution is supsoed to be an anti gremlin wepaons and yet i made more kills on jellies / robots / beast than gremlin) and other wepaons that does curse else than faust

but it should be mentioned that there is literaly no gun with piercing who allow mobility (mobility is the only thign that save your life from aibot / back dashing fiends)

as for dark retrib reply about the drop attack and shield , you cant shield forever , especialy at sl red twins , you need to get that bomb charged before they get you and you need to be able to get away . especialy youll kill only the mender / jellies and robots , wich leave youw itht he hammer and bomber ones

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 01:21

#17

Mrgrey

@Draycos Hmm... well I

@Draycos

Hmm... well I wouldn't say to give the negative effects toward fiend, since piercing adds lol. I said to get rid of it for the reason I said before, and also because I feel there would be too many bonuses added to it/showing up on it. Guess I shouldn't be concerned.

I feel that if the sword had the exact same attributes, at greater value, no one would want the gun. It's like what the flourish lines did the cutter (WHB) line pretty much.

Well it's not really a huge change for the dual-wield. I basically feel this:

Add in line for cutters that does pure normal damage (matching FF's piercing without the bonus)

Change the current shadow hit to the second swing of the physical second sword.
-each set of 2 swings is about equal in damage
-has interruption of current WHB (then have the WHB interrupt more on T3 and when in parties, since it does less damage)

Use cross swords as block
-Give debuff to shield, or make more vulnerable to something when out

I feel a cutter makes most sense for dual wield (multiple swings, moves fast).

ANYWAYS BACK TO ALL THE OTHER SUGGESTIONS.
lol.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 13:07

#18

Draycos

@Quakeman Who said you had to actually shield the attacks? Shielding is just so you put the bomb back down faster. Besides, your argument is like saying I should complain that I can't run fast enough to keep spamming vortexes without getting hit. Which is silly.

@Mrgrey The fiend penalty is so it deals massive damage without boosts where it's supposed to and has a little harder of a time with its other targets compared to Flourishes.

While it's sad that Catalyzers are so bad, it shouldn't be a reason for Cutters to be as weak as they are.

Dual wielding isn't something I want to debate, but I will say that a second cutter mimicking the phantom swings is fine.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 17:17

#19

Quakeman

gravitron vortex is the point

gravitron vortex is the point of geting all the enemies in 1 spot , with dark retrib you have to lure them in then go away

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 17:41

#20

Draycos

I know exactly how they work and how to use them. I was saying that you shouldn't be able to keep moving and attacking all the time; you should have to stop eventually in big fights, especially with a high-output weapon like the D. Retribution.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 17:45

#21

Quakeman

high dmg output , but totaly

high dmg output , but totaly useless where another bomb would have done better when the enemies just walk out of the explosion , the damage dont worth when you get only1 enemy and unlike other bombs , if something hide on a corner where other explosive bombs would hit him , the rotating balls wont dont any dmgs because od the little piece of corner protecthing him , it seelm like the d-r work like vaporiser but with a delay after the ball get back in affcetion zone to start doing damage again where vaporiser would still hit

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 18:17

#22

Draycos

Then you'd switch weapons. It isn't perfect now, I know that, but after this it'd be decently balanced.

Heavy swords are awesome against slow/moderate speed enemies, but regardless of damage type, aren't too useful against faster enemies. Does that make them bad weapons? No way.

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 21:52

#23

Quakeman

i consider grand faust as

i consider grand faust as heavy weapons and i stil can run while charging the shot with it

Sat, 01/26/2013 - 22:06

#24

Draycos

1. Exactly. I'm talking about that charge-run speed except for the DR.

2. I don't mean running while charging, but fast enemies as in Mecha Knights, Devilites, Gremlins, etc. where it's hazardous to try to combo them since they can hit you back easily.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 06:31

#25

Quakeman

s said in the vana post , i

s said in the vana post , i use both my dread venom and hunter blade vs robots and fiend because 1 i have vh uv , and 2 , thier flinch rate make me safe to confront mecha / bats / gevelite or gremlin in at lest 1 vs 2 , if there is one behind me tho im screwed and rather just like to run till i get 1 vs 1 or 1 vs 2

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 10:05

#26

Autofire

You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

1: No. It would be cool WHB because it's already a beast sword, but don't change the DVS. If you do, it won't be good against jellies anymore. *sobs* No, my beautiful sword, they'll never nerf you!

2: I agree.

3: Agreed again.

4. Once again, agreed.

5. Meeeeh....idk...then it would be sorta bad in all cases but sorta useful in all? Maybe up the norm. and pierce resistance?

6. I've never used these to know how this would play out.

7. Yes.

8. Naw, it already has resistance to two statuses.

9. Yes, please.

10. Heh heh, yes. Works too well against gremlins. :P

11. Hmm I think maybe a small decrease.

12. I don't think you've used the bomb before...

13. YES YES THESE NEED THAT BADLY.

14. Iron Slug is getting a buff. Idk about the others. :P Yes they do need some buff.

15. Yes to more statuses, but no to damage buff. They are pretty good. Have you tried the charge?

1. Yes to returning tracking. Develites can track. No ranged. They're supposed to be speedy, not snipers.

2. Yes.

3. Only in T3.

4. I say make a fire howlitzer and put those in FSC. Leave it at that.

5. Yes.

6. I vote remove normal devilite tracking.

7. Uhhh I don't follow.

8. Yes to all, but let menders revive others. It's rare that they revive things, anyway.

9. Yes to both.

10. They do heal the pitbosses, I think.....or atleast cure them.

11. Yes.

12. Hmmmm, this might work...

13. Lol yes, it should be changed a little.

14. Agreed.

15. Maybe...I think the only one in Phase two should stop more and the middle lane.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 14:52

#27

Draycos

@Autofire

I haven't used a Graviton Vortex, but I HAVE used an Electron Vortex in a Shock stratum to simulate its effects, alongside seeing someone else use a GV.

Graviton Vortexes only keep things in place after the explosion if you have several enemies grouped in its blast. The flinging effect is counterproductive to it's crowd control nature, and is what makes it so less useful than an EV, which can stick things in place with Shock. More importantly, Shock tears through enemies in groups.. couple that with the suction effects and with 20-per-tick Shock damage amongst 5 Shocked enemies hurting eachother means +100 damage per tick, not including other possible victims.

_______________

I will be updating the main post with changes discussed and agreed upon that came afterwards.

Sun, 01/27/2013 - 17:16

#28

Iamnoone

suggestion

Don't be a rat fink.

Search

Buffing and Nerfing Gear, Enemies, and Statuses