Spiral Knights - Uses per Minute for 5* Weaponry

Uses per Minute for 5* Weaponry

18 replies [Last post]

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 13:45

Kentngo

Legacy Username

If anyone is willing to help test, feel free to do so and I will update the first post with this information

I'm hoping people add to this thread and build off of it later. There is a severe lack of data for this game, so I wish to change that. I don't have all the game's 5* weapons, so I can not test them all out either.

Maybe someone could use this thread to help make a DPS chart? I know there are many who do not believe that DPS is important, but it is difficult to argue that it's not a factor for a weapon. I'm also planning on adding some notes that list factors in a weapon's survivability rating.

All weapons I test have no UVs, no attack speed bonus. I will take off all gear that manipulates attack speed. For bombs, it will be how many can be placed down. The weapon will go through the full combo, including reload and cool down time. The damage will be tested on Tier 3 and will be in the Blue damage range (rather than brown or gray). There is nothing on charge attacks that do not belong to bombs.

The only thing I can promise is close-to-accurate data on uses per minute. And even that is subject to human error.

New Testing Procedures:
Set an autoclicker to click every 100 milliseconds (1/10 of a second). Record the number of uses in 60 seconds.

Swords:
Final Flourish: 102 Uses per Minute, 3 Use Combo, Piercing Damage, First Swing is wide with no forward movement, second will push the player forward with a stab, third will thrust the player further forward.

Guns:
Valiance: 93 Uses per Minute, 3 Use Combo, Normal Damage, Each hit will knock back slightly
Hail Driver: 64 Uses per Minute, 2 Use Combo, Elemental Damage, Each hit will split into smaller pieces, hitting the same enemy multiple times is possible, Freezing is possible
Volt Driver: 64 Uses per Minute, 2 Use Combo, Elemental Damage, Each hit will split into smaller pieces, hitting the same enemy multiple times is possible, Shocking is possible
Magma Driver: 64 Uses per Minute, 2 Use Combo, Elemental Damage, Each hit will split into two smaller pieces, hitting the same enemy multiple times is possible, Burning is Possible
Umbra Driver: 64 Uses per Minute, 2 Use Combo, Shadow Damage, Each hit will split into smaller pieces, hitting the same enemy multiple times is possible
Sentenza: 141 Uses per Minute, 6 Use Combo, Shadow/Piercing Damage, Can not move during reload animation
Argent Peacemaker: 140 Uses per Minute, 6 Use Combo, Elemental/Piercing Damage, Can not move during reload animation
Callahan: 64 Uses per Minute, 2 Use Combo, Piercing Damage, Can not move while shooting, Each shot pushes yourself back slightly, Each shot has a chance of stunning a hit target

Bombs:
Shivermist Buster: 18 Uses per Minute, 1 Use Combo, A large explosion with very small damage radius. However, it leaves a large cloud that lasts five second. While in the cloud, mobs have a chance of being frozen.
Ash of Agni: 18 Uses per Minute, 1 Use Combo, A large explosion with very small damage radius. However, it leaves a large cloud that lasts five second. While in the cloud, mobs have a chance of being burnt.

EDIT Log:
1.0.2 - Added Magma Driver, Callahan, Ash of Agni (thank you, Culture).
1.0.1 - Added Volt Driver.
1.0.0 - Started this page. Added Final Flourish, Valiance, Hail Driver, Umbra Driver, Sentenza, Argent Peacemaker and Shivermist Buster.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 14:23

divaliant

Legacy Username

This looks promising as an

This looks promising as an Attack Speed chart. We are already making a damage data chart over at the Wiki forum, so having a more concrete gear information is not too far in the future, I think:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/7447

This sounds like a great idea. Would you mind sharing your method to gather all these data as well? That way we can corroborate its validity by reproducing the same number of weapon usage per minute.

I personally prefer keeping the Attack Speed numbers from the Damage separate simply because we can rarely do sustained DPS. The ASPD chart itself is already very helpful, IMO. Good job on coming up with this Kentngo! =)

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 14:35

Pupu

Legacy Username

Here

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/4816

I intended to do some test, but I currently lack proper equipment to do so.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 14:37

meowreka

Legacy Username

Are we putting all this

Are we putting all this information we're gathering on the wiki somewhere?

Someone really needs to.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 14:50

Kentngo

Legacy Username

My method of gathering data

My method of gathering data is by using a stop watch set for 60 seconds and spam right clicking while counting the number of attacks.

There's a ton of human variation through the spam clicking, so I've been thinking about using an auto-clicker instead. Still, it should be accurate enough for comparison purposes...

...I hope.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:06

Azurenightmare

If you want to test weapon

If you want to test weapon speed, the most accurate way is to record a vid of using the weapon and count frame by frame how long it takes to execute the attacks.
Having a pad with an autofire setting may help with this.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:12

Kentngo

Legacy Username

So, basically, use an

So, basically, use an auto-clicker?

Kay, I set an autoclicker to use the weapon every 100 milliseconds, the changes are small, but recordable. I'll update each number now.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 21:00

Master-Gunslinger

Attack speed and equips

Have you tried to see if the speed changes while using higher attack speed equips?
I'm currently unconvinced that it does anything and would like some actual test facts.

Sat, 05/14/2011 - 22:19

Feynt

Legacy Username

The higher attack speed will

The higher attack speed will increase your total swings per minute. It reduces the delay between swings, so even at low you're getting enough of a swing time decrease to work in another swing or two (at least) per minute. It will not however decrease the end combo delay, so in my opinion aspd bonuses for the troika or sealed swords (the two swing weapons) are much less useful than they are for higher attack weapons (especially the cutter line, despite them already being ridiculously fast).

Of course it's empirical testing alone. I have no actual evidence to back up my opinion. But that's what this whole thread's about, proving or disproving the popular opinion that aspd does matter in all cases.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 10:32

culture

Legacy Username

DA Numbers

Using screencapture software then stepping through frame-by-frame I got the following numbers for DA vs DA Medium IAS. I'm measuring speed to complete first swing, then finish first combo, then first swing of second combo then finish second combo.

............IAS 0 IAS 2 End Swing 1 0.733 0.667 End Combo 1 2.068 1.934 End Swing 2 2.802 2.535 End Combo 2 4.203 3.869

So the increase in speed for the first swing was 66 ms. To finish the first combo took 134 ms less with the IAS Medium.

The swing for the second combo (labeled Swing 2 above) occurred faster than I would have expected. The combo ending animation must be sped up too by IAS. Swing 2 completed in 0.734s with no IAS. With Medium IAS it took 0.601s, a reduction of 133ms instead of the expected 66ms. Am I thinking about this correctly? Or did I booch some calculation?

Because of the difference in FPS between the recording software and the game it can be a little difficult to match up everything perfectly, so more numbers would be most helpful.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 10:32

#10

culture

Legacy Username

Bombs!

Here are some bomb speed numbers... All numbers are for CTR. 0 being none, 6 being Maximum. These are measured in seconds from the bomb grab animation frame will the first big yellow flash. It is actually possible to drop the bomb a frame before the yellow flash, but it is easier to measure to the flash in the video.

Master Blast Bomb, average decrease is 162.5 ms. No CTR decrease should start Master Blast Bomb at about 2.327 s.
2 2.002 3 1.801 4 1.668 5 1.485 6 1.352

Haze Bomb, average decrease is 231.75 ms
0 3.262 1 3.036 2 2.936 3 2.582 4 2.335

Fiery Vaporizer, average decrease 220.75 ms
2 2.819 3 2.602 4 2.335 5 2.135 6 1.936

Ash of Agni, average decrease 225 ms
4 2.336 5 2.125 6 1.886

So blast bombs drop faster than haze bombs, as a result CTR reduction is not as profound as haze bombs. Probably a percentage? If so, 1 CTR for blast bombs is ~14.32% off the original time. And 1 CTR for haze bombs is ~14.5% off the original time. More data points would reduce the error caused by differing frame rates.

These three types of haze bombs are really close in charge time, I expect that all haze bombs share the same speed, a few more data points would be nice.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 13:23

#11

Syor

Legacy Username

@culture

Try the whole thing from charging to dropping to exploding. Sorry can't help much :X

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:10

#12

culture

Legacy Username

Sure...

The time between when it is done charging to when I drop it depends on how twitchy I am that day. I'll check to see if drop -> explosion varies at all by CTR.

Edit:

The time from drop to explosion for Master Blast Bomb didn't vary significantly by CTR. All numbers are seconds.

Testing CTR 2-6
2.236, 2.403, 2.203, 2.139, 2.168 = Average 2.2298 s

Testing CTR 2-6 again
2.269, 2.169, 2.367, 2.137, 2.135 = Average 2.2154 s

Just for fun, I tried CTR 7 (one above max) and got the same results as CTR 6.

Fun results... if you have perfect timing you can chain a Master Blast Bomb with just a Level 5 Low CTR. If you have CTR Max then it would be possible to plant a bomb 0.885 seconds before the last exploded.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 14:39

#13

Eeks

While you're in the mood for

While you're in the mood for testing can you test w/ a swiftstrike and see if the drop time is faster, the fuse time is faster, or the recovery after dropping is faster (not sure if this would be possible to observe)?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:18

#14

culture

Legacy Username

Swiftstrike

I don't have a Swiftstrike yet ;_; Sometime soon when I get the CR I'll grab one from the AH.

Oh, recovery times... good idea. So no Swiftstrike, but here's the numbers for Master Blast Bomb, CTR 2-6:
0.4, 0.335, 0.464, 0.401, 0.366 = Average 0.3932

This is measured between the time the drop animation starts until a full size bomb is back in hand.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:46

#15

actinium

Legacy Username

Could someone with an umbra

Could someone with an umbra driver and a sentenza go shoot a gremlin and a slime with each and report the damage? The prevailing opinion is that the antigua 5*s are inferior to pure damage weapons because resists reduce more damage then weaknesses add but if the shots per minute show the antiguas more then doubling the shooting speed of an alchemer then the damage would only need to be half or more for antiguas to be considered the "better" gun, right? Id just love to have an antigua variant be worth taking up a weapon slot so breaking minerals wasnt so tedious as a gunner.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 08:24

#16

culture

Legacy Username

Swiftstrike w/ bombs

I have a Swiftstrike now, the charge time, explosion time and recovery time are all within the margin of error. If there is any change due to IAS then it is so slight that I wouldn't detect it with my screencapture software.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:53

#17

Kentngo

Legacy Username

So, I'm adding two new guns I

So, I'm adding two new guns I got. My Auto-gun has IAS, so I can't use it to test. If anyone wants to do it, feel free.

I'll update the list with info about the Haze Bomb Series soon.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:49

#18

novareid

Legacy Username

I just want to comment that

I just want to comment that DPS can be increased on an individual basis through "shield canceling" and "shield charging".

Shield canceling is swinging at most N - 1 times, where N is the maximum number of swings in the combo of a given sword, entering shield, and repeating this process. e.g. A Brandish has N = 3, so shield canceling would be swinging up to 2 times, entering shield, and repeat.

Shield charging is going into a charge attack directly from shield without having to, in the case of a sword, swing first, and in the case of a bomb, having to lift (activate) the bomb. This is accomplished by first being in shield, holding down the attack button, and then releasing shield. I haven't tested this precisely, but there is a minimum time that you need to hold down attack before releasing shield, and seems to be about 1 second.

The purpose of both of these maneuvers is, in the case of the sword, avoid the delay caused by the final "big" swing which prevents you from shielding immediately, and in the case of a charge attacks and bombs, avoid the need to swing once before charging and the slowness caused by lifting bombs, respectively.

Hope this helps, both for data collection and to help people fight better. (:

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Uses per Minute for 5* Weaponry