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Coliseum Survival Gameplay

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Mon, 12/03/2012 - 12:12
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay

Hey guys, Latisan-Sklay here.

If you listen to the podcast or know me, you know I'm usually not one for the small ideas. New 5* Winmillion is all well, and good, but what I'm suggesting here is a new game for Krogmo's PvP network. This is a BRAINSTORM of ideas, not a concrete system I'd like to see implemented exactly as listed. Any number of these aspects might be altered, added to, or removed - I'm posting here to see what the community thinks.

In essence, this new game type would be a mix of PvE and PvP in a wave based enemy system. To explain each aspect in detail, I list what a player might see when he joins a game in italics, with explanations in normal text.

You spawn into an arena with up to seven (fifteen?) other players.
This arena is one of multiple themed arenas, each bigger than an Arena you might find in the Clockworks. In Krogmo battle arena style, these would have themes based around "forest", "furnace", "downtown", etc. and have terrain to navigate, strategic choke points, maybe a point in the middle to keep the mobs away, and no spawn point. This might be played with the camera slightly overhead like in Legion of Almire, or maybe not.

Everyone would have Proto Gear. The first wave spawns in and you fight off the hoard of enemies, collecting Krogmo "credits" as you make kills. After the first wave is up, you take your "credits" to maybe a Stranger or fiend and trade them for any number of purchasable upgrades, attachments, or additional gear. When you're ready or after a certain time limit, the next wave begins.
Sound like Team Fortress 2's Mann vs. Machine? Yeah, maybe a little, but it's a lot different as well.
Everyone would get the same number of base credits, just like in normal SK gameplay. However, to award good play, maybe more credits are awarded after a player deals 1000 dmg or heals teammates a certain amount or defends the capture point.
Why Proto Gear? First, it allows for anyone to play, regardless of skill level, without having to worry about the curse of Lockdown - maxed knights in Tier 2 or Proto Knights in Tier 3 dominating or ruining games. Without Tiers or differential between gear, the only difference among players would be skill and creativity. Second, it allows for the upgrade system. Among the buyable wares would be...
• Upgrades to weapons, armor, and shields. Choose how you want to progress from the (maybe randomly generated and limited) stock of gear pieces on sale. Purchase the cheaper 1* or 2* gear pieces, which unlock their higher * variants to be purchased at a higher cost. If you decide you want to go Gunslinger, work your way to getting a Blitz Needle, Polaris, Setenza, Gunslinger outfit, and shield of choice.
• Attachments. As mentioned in the Arsenal podcast, you could buy attachments for your gear which might alter its stats. Overclockers on bombs would cause them to charge faster. Scopes on guns would increase their firing distance and power, but at the cost of reload time. Quicksilver on armor would cause you to run faster at the expense of shock vulnerability. The possibilities for attachments and combinations among them are vast and deep.
• Additional Gear. It would be cool to introduce some other gear you might purchase that isn't in normal gameplay. I'd love to see the option to build a support class - purchase the Guardian shield, healing wand, "attack up" field, or other such upgrades to help your team, at the cost of gear, shield, and weapons slots. You could also buy Vitapods, Vials, Trinkets, Weapon or Trinket slot upgrades, Turrets, or Mecha-Knights here.
• Refill Health. I'm not sure if this would be an aspect or not, but it would be interesting if you didn't heal between matches, but instead could pay credits to refill all your health.

You continue to play in this way, with each wave substantially more populated and/or more difficult than the last. In between certain random waves, a prompt appears which reads, "Last Man Standing" or "Vial Dodgeball".
Maybe to keep the general PvP aspect in the whole thing, there would be random prompts for PvP gameplay. Maybe this is completely unnecessary (but then it wouldn't really belong in Krogmo's PvP network for anything except the "Coliseum" aspect).
"Last Man Standing" (or other name) would award a small number of "credits" or a credit multiplier (1.2x pickup) to the last player standing after team damage was opened up and everyone attempted to kill each other. Everyone would automatically rev upon the event finishing.
"Vial Dodgeball" would activate Vial spawners around the map such as in the Advanced Training Hall. Everyone's health would be reduced to 2 (adjustable number) pips of health. The point would be to pick the Vials up and KO teammates with them. An award would be given to the winner and all players would be reved after the event.
Players might use these events in one of two ways, especially if the group is communicating well (maybe mics would be allowed). First, it generally favors the most powerful and skilled players. These are the players will be the best chance for the team's survival, and so could always use more credits. Second, if the team is communicating, it allows for free credits to any player who needs them. Maybe the support player was just a few credits short of the Mending Wand. When the PvP event is called, everyone decides to let the healer win so (s)he can gain the credits. If the group is not communicating well, then the credits simply go to whoever wins.

As the waves get harder, players faint. When all the players have fainted, the game is over and prizes are awarded.
Every wave would be more difficult than the last and offer harder enemies in more difficult locations and configurations. Maybe the map would change at certain times, closing off useful paths or opening up side trails or new spawn points for enemies. Maybe in the map that favors Gremlins, one more difficult wave hosts a lot of Fiends or a lot of Bombers.
Maybe if you faint, you stop receiving credits for that round (as a penalty).
If you take enough damage to faint, you can spectate like in normal gameplay. If your teammates survive the wave, you are automatically reved and get a certain amount of health (a base of three pips, but you might buy more if you choose to purchase it in between waves?). Your teammates could also rev you, and I had three ideas for this. One, you could rev teammates the same way as in normal gameplay, by standing over them and giving them half your health. The second way is that you have a respawn time like in the other Coliseum games. The third way I thought it might be done is that you have to stand near your downed teammate for a certain amount of time, at which point they would rev with a certain amount of health (again, the base of three pips with more as a purchasable). More players around a teammate would decrease the time needed before the player revs. The reason you might have this revive system is that it would be a place to spend credits, and it also makes it a bit more difficult to rev teammates compared to the other ways. Why must it be more difficult? Because don't forget there are up to 8 (16?) knights in the fight.
When all the players have fainted or agree to retire, the game is over. Krogmo Coins might be awarded based on how far you got in the infinite, increasingly difficult wave system. 1 if you got up to Wave 10. 2 if you cleared wave 10. 3. if you cleared wave 25. And on and on. Maybe you could choose to make the waves harder when you were still in game in trade for higher reward. Also, you might be awarded crowns in Lockdown style based on your performance, but the entry fee to join this game mode might be higher than 200cr.

Again, notice the prevalence of "might" and "maybe"s above. This is a brainstorm with all the ideas I came up with all included in one happy package. I think this game mode would have several advantages:
• Fun for everyone based on the almost infinite number of possible combinations of team builds and individual gear builds. Besides, "no one likes unlocking stuff" said no one ever.
• Encourages teamwork and cooperative play. This game mode gives plenty of opportunity for people to get to know each other and work together. It would also be cool as an aside for you to be able to invite friends in this game mode (a feature lacking and sorely needed in Lockdown) so that you could play together in "private" games instead of joining "public" matches like LD. I could see some really attention-grabbing videos up on Youtube if eight of the more popular knights (for example, St-Leone, Jaroche, Veeble, Volkster, etc.) got together and played.
• Serves as a counter to the grindwork of getting Krogmo Coins. All too often I hear of people in Lockdown just because the HAVE to get Enamorocks or recipes for the Sullivan-only weapons. This would counteract that in being more fun and unique, playable with friends, and also distributed along a curve. What I mean by that is that newer players wouldn't be getting past wave 10 (or let's say the especially hard Wave 8 or something) and so wouldn't be getting a high amount of Coins. However, if good knights learned the mode and played, they would learn the maps and the most effective ways of ranking up and could work through enough waves to get a fistful of Coins and crowns in the time it takes to play two LD matches. What I'm saying in a nutshell is that only the knights who worked together and who would be looking at the expensive 5* Sullivan recipes anyway would benefit from the increased Krogmo Coin payout. Newer knights (in skill, not in gear, don't forget) wouldn't be getting that far, and neither would public matches where knights don't work together.

Examples of upgrade progressions I could think of as potential loadouts.
1. Typical Reserved Swordsman
Purchases Brandish. Purchases Flourish. Purchases Wolver helm and armor. Eventually upgrades all slowly to higher star. Purchases 2 Motor attachments for swords (random idea I just came up with) to increase attack speed at the cost of increased recoil time or increased charge time (or no downside at all, if the attachment is more expensive).
2. Aggressive Bomber
Purchases Freezing Vaporizer and Shard Bomb. Ignores armor and immediately upgrades bombs to higher star. With bombs ahead of enemy strength, purchases Overclocker to reduce charge time. Finally, as the waves get harder (and he dominates with his bombs and carefully avoids damage), he purchases and upgrades a bombing outfit. Or maybe he messes up and faints and gets no credits and falls behind and becomes the downfall of his team.
3. Support
Purchases Flourish. Purchases Cobalt Armor. Waits a couple of rounds to save credits. Purchases Guardian shield (removes shield). Upgrades Cobalt to Vitasuit Deluxe. Purchases Mending Wand. Upgrades to Mending Wand MkII which allows for the protective rune to be placed on the floor. Purchases Turret. Purchases "Attack Up" aura.
4. Heavy Weapons
Purchases Troika. Purchases Autogun. Purchases Trinket Slot Upgrade and Elite Quick Strike Module. Upgrades weapons to 5*. Purchases Scope attachment for Blitz Needle to increase CTR High, increase bullet distance, and decrease bullet spread, but at the cost of reduced ASI low and increased reload time Medium (or something like that).
5. ...and on and on it goes. If you like this idea as much as I do, you probably already have ideas of your own.

And there you have it. I appreciate anyone who took the time to read through all of that, and I'd love to hear all feedback, support, or criticisms (given properly). If you're reading this before December 9, I will be discussing this on the Arsenal Podcast, so if you want to hear me explain it again in voice and maybe ask questions live, be sure to tune in (livestream.com/thearsenalpodcast @ 2:15 PM EST (GMT-5)).
Thanks again and I look forward to seeing what you all have to say.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 12:30
#1
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
Feedback

Like I said, feel free to express feedback. I'll keep note of it here to track progress.

Positive feedback:
{Name - quote}

Negative feedback:
{Name - quote}

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 12:49
#2
Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
I take over #2 slot

oh yea. couldnt finish it. theres too much! so i just read the Italicized.

anyway, major adjustment suggestion here. for ir to be PvP, wouldnt it be better for the instead of a monster wave, let there be a second team of Players?
so its Player vs Player and it gets harder every match as every player upgrades thier equip

anyway, theres alot to harness so Im not sure where im going with this.
think of it as a neutral comment.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 13:00
#3
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
Suggestions

Like I said, feel free to suggest all manner of stuff. Arena builds, attachments, support gear, PvP mini-events, etc. etc...
Each idea can have one or more descriptions. Each description below the italicized idea has been separated by a line break (¶).

Arena builds:

Attachments (stat changes apply only to gear piece to which attachment is applied, unless otherwise stated):
Scope for Handguns
+ Bonus Damage High
+ Charge Time Reduction Medium
+ Increased bullet range
+ Decreased bullet spread
- Reduced Attack Speed Medium
- Reduced Reload Speed Low

+ Gun Bonus Damage High
+ Slight chance to cause Moderate Stun
- Reduced Attack Speed Medium

Overclocker for Bombs
+ Charge Time Reduction Very High
- Damage Reduction Medium
- Damage Reduction vs. Construct Medium

+ Charge Time Reduction High

Motor for Swords
+ Attack Speed Increased Medium
- Increased Charge Time Low
- Increased Recoil Time Low

+ Attack Speed Increased Medium
+ Charge Time Reduction Medium
- Damage Reduction Low

Quicksilver for Armor
+ Increased Movement Speed Medium
- Shock Vulnerability Medium

+ Increased Movement Speed Low

Shadow Aura for Helmets
+ Increased Shadow Defense Medium
+ Damage Bonus vs. Gremlins and Jellies Low
- Damage Reduction vs. Undead and Fiends Low
- Curse Vulnerability Medium

+ Low chance of causing Moderate Curse (for all weapons)
- Reduced Defense to Shadow Damage Medium

Reenforced Steel for Shields
+ Increased Shield Health High
+ Increased Normal, Piercing, Elemental, Shadow Defense Medium
- Loss of weapon slot

+ Increased Normal and Piercing Defense High
- Reduced Movement Speed Low
- Increased Charge Time Low

Support gear:
Guardian Shield
Acts just like it does in Lockdown

Mending Wand
Casts invisible hearts (like the Love Pup fires, except you can't see them) at allies.
Cannot damage monsters.
Attack speed of a Sealed Sword (or variant).
Upgradable to Mending Wand MkII

Heals allies when you hit them.
Deals minimal normal damage to monsters.
Attack speed of a Troika (or variant).
Upgradable to Mending Wand MkII

Mending Wand MkII
Works the same way the Mending Wand works.
Can place a circular rune on the floor that heals any allies that stand on it.
Costs two hearts of health to cast rune.

Works the same way the Mending Wand works.
Acts as a second person when reviving a fallen teammate, effectively cutting the time it takes to rev an ally in half.

PvP mini-events:

Other:
Canine-Vladmir - PvP instead of PvE
Wouldn't it be better for the instead of a monster wave, let there be a second team of Players? So it's Player vs Player and it gets harder every match as every player upgrades thier equip.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 13:03
#4
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
@Canine-Vladmir

You know... that's actually a pretty good idea. I would have a couple of questions though.
• Per round, what does the winner get? If the winner gets more credits, the game becomes even more imbalanced towards the already winning team. If the losers get more credits, there's no point in winning. And if no one get's credits, there's no incentive to play at all.
• How would the game end? If it was really and truly PvP, it sounds like this would be Lockdown to an L, just with no capture points and more gear to get.

Now, I did have another idea of a PvP "Arms Race" like in CounterStrike, where, every time you make a kill, you get a stronger weapon (following the general progression of CounterStrike)...

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 15:33
#5
Klipik's picture
Klipik
ohai latisan

Quick comment because I have alot of stuff to do:

What happens if someone sits in a corner and polaris spams everything? they can't lose.

Also, I thought you said you didn't come here...

<(^_^)> <(^_^<) (>^_^)> ^(^_^)^

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 16:10
#6
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
@Klipik

Hey Klip.

Good question. Made me think for a second. But I think I have two answers that may or may not work in conjunction with each other, as well as one reminder.

1) Build the maps so that there are no good corners. The Call of Duty maps are good at making it so that there's no one good place to just hole up with a gun and camp all game, especially in the more recent games. Building maps in similar fashion might not be a bad idea.

2) Build the enemy waves so that it is difficult to survive in a corner. The combination of strategically building the maps so that all walls are covered by turret spots, sending bombie zombies or souls chew you out, sending a mass number of tier 3 wolvers (which would quickly overwhelm), and spawning opponents with projectile capabilities (gremlins, fiends) would make it difficult to stand still.

Reminder: I didn't explicitly say it, but I mentioned it. I was thinking there might be one or more control point to defend, which would make the game not only a killfest, but also objective based. If the enemies captured all the points, the game would end. As the waves continued, new points would open up, making for more difficult defending. Holing up in a corner means you'll lose as soon as control point 2 opens up halfway across the map.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 16:26
#7
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru
Oh hi Mark

How is your se-

Wrong joke.

Anyway, if you want some Spur stuff, I recommend this and that for berserk slaughtering or knockback/projectile interference respectively. Who says swords have to be just slashing and shooting projectiles? Why are swords shooting projectiles? Because Three Rings is biased to swords and hates bombs and guns. Who said that?

Are there teams like the other Krogmo minigames in competitive mode? If sixteen people can play in the same round at once, not to mention all the enemies which will inevitably clog up the screen, how would people deal with all the lag and chaos flying around? Four per team and one team per room is more reasonable unless every map is incredibly big.

Sounds a little like these two on the upgrades which also came from old TF2. What can I say? They made a pretty good system.

Between a certain amount of waves/enemies the walls between rooms can open so players can attack the opposing team for a while to earn bonus points or rewards.

In addition to the other links I recommend seeing this for swords flying around, this for volleyball, and this for a classic.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 17:13
#8
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
@Luguiru

...
um, thanks for the links and crap, but I'd appreciate it if we kept the cross-promotion to a low. I think we all know how to find stuff on the forums.

As for the lag question (really the only thing that pertains to this post), if 15 players in an arena can fire off Polaris-s or Nitronomes all at once and I can still Recon effectively, I think 8 and a bunch of enemies wouldn't be that bad. And maybe it doesn't have to go to 8 - maybe 6 is good. Still a good increase from the normal 4 (which just seems a good bit limited at times...).

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 19:35
#9
Severage's picture
Severage
...

I think we all know how to find stuff on the forums.

You'd be surprised......

~Sev

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:09
#10
Klipik's picture
Klipik
what is this Lug?!

It's not like you to randomly promote a bunch of random unrelated stuff.

Mon, 12/03/2012 - 21:23
#11
Luguiru's picture
Luguiru

It is when the same few generic topics are constantly coming up.

And when there is mention of something which I have a relevant link for if anyone bothered reading anything.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 06:32
#12
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
@Luguiru

They may be generic topics, but you should have the maturity and presence of mind to respect specifics that people come up with - not just me but everyone on the forums.

They may be general topics, but OOO can't implement them as "general topics". They need to have an application. Mine, like so many others (such as the links you posted) are more specific conjuring of what everyone wants.

It's fine if everyone want's something, but it's not your place to judge how it gets implemented or who or how it gets suggested.

:-)

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 08:37
#13
Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

I see lots of support options like turrets, healing and runes but what about monsters?
Just giving them more damage/defense won't cut it if they never get close to you (most are melee and ranged ones still need to get close enough to attack).The only threat are trojans since they have front shields.

We could use some new trojan-like enemies for each family for variation pruposes. The lazy approach is to make custom colored trojans with special defenses for each family.





-Polaris spam in a corner is just one problem. With 8 people back to back they can cover all directions.
-Or forget about polaris, what about multiple guardians. When one shield breaks, the next players raises his. By the time the 6th player uses his shield, the first one should have recovered.
-The same concept of 'rotation' applies to charging weapons. 5 players with blitzes, one after the other.... a line of death
-Just stacking multiple bombs like DBB or shards to create a constant circle of doom

Most of these problems come from overusing a type of weapon/equipment. So there should be limits.
Want a polaris but your friend already bought one? You were slow, too bad.

Tue, 12/04/2012 - 12:02
#14
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
@Little-Juances

Hey hey!

I do understand those drawbacks - you make a good point.

And I like your solution a lot as well. Excellent thought!

I also thought that maybe only a few lines are available to you, determined at random. If you want to 'unlock' a line not given to you, you have to pay a rather huge amount for it.
Maybe you'd have the options to get five or six weapons lines and two or three armor/helmet/shields...

Thu, 01/03/2013 - 11:31
#15
Latisan-Sklay's picture
Latisan-Sklay
Stayin alive

Bump.

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