Finish the Cautery Blade line
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 08:15
Of all the Brandish weapons the Cautery Blade and it's could be line are the most balanced weapon of the entire family
4* Surgical Sabre
Normal damage + DMG vs Slime High
5* Amputation Scimitar
Normal damage + DMG vs Slime High
With no status and normal damage you would have a good reliable weapon for every situation in the game and while not the most powerful weapon in the game it would not punish the player for picking a weapon line that they might not know ends at 3 stars.
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 08:45
#2
@ Thag
Too late for that we already have a normal damage brandish (2 actually), I just want them to finish what they started. FYI we have the Winmillion which sends out disks of energy, what's the problem with waves?
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 09:38
#3
Question
Would the Four Star and Five Star Cautery Blade deal as much damage as the Cold Iron paths, or would we buff the Cautery Blade to deal as much damage as those Brandish lines?
I would really want to vote for the latter, since the Brandish lines have a Status and still deal Calibur damage, but I think OOO will make it follow the Cold Iron...
_____
I don't know why I added my opinion...
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 09:53
#4
@ Rhons
It's damage would be like the CIV in a sense; or more accurately the DVS in relation to the WHB.
It's damage would be more like any of the status brandishes. Compare the DVS to the WHB, their damage output to enemies are the same, one has a status and one has a monster perk. Much like them this blade would deal the same neutral damage as the status brandishes (like a Combuster used on Fire Fiends).
Considering that it would be a quite powerful normal damage weapon with neutral damage equal to that of a Combuster that doesn't deal status.
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 10:01
#5
Hmm...
I want this, because the CS at the moment seems like just a trap for new players who wanted a good Normal sword. But here's an idea: what if the Cautery Sword had its own different alchemy paths that went up to 5*, where the damage bonuses changed from Slime to other monster families? For example:
Super Amputator: Damage VS Gremlins VH (about on par with Acheron VS Gremlins)
Frying Cauterizer: Damage VS Constructs VH (about on par with Combuster VS Constructs)
Angelic Cauterizer: Damage VS Fiends VH (about on par with BTB VS Fiends)
Aaand so on for other monster families, Slime still included, but no Undead or Beast bonus, we already have Cold Iron Vanquisher and Wild Hunting Blade for that (unless the presumed Sword Update changes CIV or WHB's damage types to something other than Normal). This could theoretically make it a very versatile Sword for new knights who want an all-purpose Normal weapon but still get a perk against a monster family of their choice.
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 10:18
#6
@ Jessecho
That's up to SK if they want that. It would be fun but I don't want to create a situation like the GU armors where it gets too complex. Right now the lore on the blade currently aims at slimes with it's ability to cauterize their bodies (searing their jelly bodies).
If we really want to take it to the extreme we could take this blade up like the Shocking Salt bomb is with a perk and a status. Since Cauterizing involves using heat a Fire status would work but the base damage of the blade would have to be lowered even further.
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 10:30
#7
@ Jessecho
I like how you would want something to beat out those dumb ol' special damage Swords, but just a few things I want to point out:
Super "Amputator"... Yeah, thank you for putting that image in my head.
Additionally, from what I remember from the Wiki, Special Damage deals about 50% more damage, whilst every increment of Damage Boost from UVs only give off a +7% damage increase. That means that those Cautery Blades would be even stronger than a regular Calibur to deal as much damage as those Swords. (Fun Fact: Acheron deals Gran Faust damage. That would mean that... Amputator would deal Triglav/Sudaruska damage+)
I like the effort with the names, though... Except for Amputator.
_____
@ Holy-Nightmare
If you want the Cautery Blade to deal Brandish damage equal to those over-buffed Status Brandishes, then that means it will indefinitely make the Leviathan Blade inferior due to having an extra perk of Damage vs. Slime. Plus, Brandish charges are easier to pull off than Calibur charges (since people do not really know about that 137 degree angle).
...
I just disagreed with my first post. Genius Rhons.
Mon, 06/29/2015 - 11:17
#8
@ Rhons
The Calibur line of weapons are good solid damage blades, well balanced is what I would call them. It would be especially nice if the FOV buff was allowed to work with all spin blades (The FOV buff is when you have a good amount of ASI, the charge of the FOV would not hit 3 times on the charge but rather 4 times)
FYI the Status Brandish blades are superior to the Leviathan anyway. Their Neutral damage is higher period, naturally a normal damage brandish would outshine it. Hopefully this gets fixed in the future but for now I'm keeping the 5* cautery blade at the same power level as the Status brandishes vs neutral enemies.
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Leviathan_Blade
http://wiki.spiralknights.com/Combuster
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 03:24
#9
The Brandish line only has
The Brandish line only has one normal upgrade, which is the Cautery Sword itself. Though it would be nice if there was an upgrade of the Cautery Sword. Why I didn't agree with your suggestion is because if the Dev's decide to upgrade the Cautery Sword till 5 star, and they don't upgrade the Winmillion and all the other Gear's that are stuck at 2 or 3*, people will want them to upgrade those Gear's too.
This is just my opinion
By wave's I meant the wave's that are sent out by the Combuster, Glacius and Voltedge. The Winmillion isn't an upgrade of a Brandish, so I don't know why you even mentioned it.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 00:32
#10
So, if all the gear's stuck at 2 or 3* get updated, the game wont be so fun after all.
Why won't the game be fun if that gear gets updated?
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 00:36
#11
@Hexzyle
As I said, that is just my opinion.
The game wont be so fun because, if sword like Static Edge is updated, it will seem unnatural. We already have a Voltedge. We already have a Combuster, and if Hot edge is upgraded, it will again seem unnatural.
What I mean is, all the sword's and gun's are good the way they are, and I don't feel they need to be upgraded.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 01:23
#12
@Boneblinder
So that will stop the game being fun?
You have very fragile expectations of games...
@Holy-Nightmare (OP)
Your suggestion has been noted. Now fall back in line.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 05:50
#13
@ Boneblinder
Actually a 5 star version of the Static and Hot Edge would be interesting. If you have played with them before you will know that the last hit of a combo can deal status, the Brandish Variants can't. Therefore IF the Static and Hot Edge were give 5* versions their base damage would be lower than the Brandish Alternatives as a way to balance them.
Your post in #2 seemed concerned about having normal damage weapons with long range (I.E. waves of energy). My response was to point out that we already have a normal sword with long range.
As for your Post #9 I would point out that I never said anything about keeping the Winmillion the way it is or the rest of the unfinished lines like that. In fact if you knew my history in the forums I have supported such ideas in the past.
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/105473
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/110298
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 07:49
#14
Posting from my main account.
I do know that you have supported such topics.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 07:54
#15
Five Star Shocking/Searing Edges
You know that means it will be a weapon line that starts from One Star to Five Star - Queue Epic Ragecrafting.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 08:03
#16
@ Rhons
I'm pretty sure the Devs could UV lock them till they reach 2 star. That way you wouldn't be able to get UVs on the one star versions unless you rolled or had one prior to the update.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 10:03
#17
Eh.
I'm going to say no. Brandishes split into different damage types as their strength, and seeing as it has an identical combo to caliburs, it will play almost exactly the same as a leviathan blade. Similarly, this slime-weapon is inferior to an acheron, which still does a lot of damage to zombies and fiends. The cautery sword is designed to be used for the royal jelly palace, and that is why it is locked into 3-star.
Base line is this weapon covers only a normal variant charge attack of brandishes, and nothing more. We have two damage types and 4 statuses on brandishes already, we don't need to add another brandish into the mix.
Not every piece of gear needs to be made into a 5* variant. Instead, it would be nice is we had an icon on the tooltip that showed overall potential for star levels (so that we see 2*->4* for winmillion, 2*->5* for leviathan blade, 2*->3* for cautery blade, 1*->3* for icebreaker line, etc). That would give enough warning to new players about the item they are crafting, rather than making all lower-tiered items have higher tier variants that are not balanced or needed in higher tiers (breaker lines, edge lines, normal brandish).
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 14:23
#18
@ Fangel
Normal weapons fill an important and overlooked role in SK, type coverage. Sure the Cautery sword and it's proposed line won't be able to outdamage the Acheron, that's not the point. The Cold Iron Vanquisher doesn't outdamage the Combuster but I bring it to Shadowplay everytime not the Combuster. (mostly because it wrecks dreadnaughts so easily).
The Acheron (heck even the Obsidian Edge) has a higher base damage than the Leviathan Blade. A 5* Normal damage brandish would still outdo the Leviathan blade and hold it's own in the Brandish Family as the "any situation" weapon of choice.
Heck I'd craft it and the Cautery Blade has such a unique color design I'm sure some people would craft it just for the neat design. I'd love to run around in a white and red set with this blade dropping heart attacks with my Seraphynx and just being a medic.
Or put on red white and blue and run around yelling 'Merica!
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 14:57
#19
...
That's not the point. The point is that the only functional thing you get out of a normal brandish is its charge attack. The standard attack combo and damage would mirror or outperform a leviathan blade, whose whole function is to be a reliable and functional normal damage weapon.
We do not need more brandishes. We already have 5 of them at 5* covering every non-special status in the game, and 3/4 damage types, including the one you propose. This suggestion is similar to asking for a normal damage alchemer because "we don't have it in the game". We already have weapons that fulfill the role it would play, and several times better. Valiance is normal damage with another bullet in the chamber. Alchemers already cover shadow and elemental plus a variety of statuses, and a normal damage one isn't needed.
Alchemers are the brandishes of guns, hence why I bring them up.
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 17:07
#20
@ Fangel
The Leviathan Blade is meant to be the basic weapon of the SK arsenal, reliable and a good blade in any situation whether it is pounding at enemies, spreading them out or dealing high damage to heavy or immobile targets. The only reason Brandishes outshine the Calibur line is that the Calibur line is a tad weaker on the combo and the Charge ends up not using 66% of it's potential for damage due to knockback.
From what we've seen recently in SK the dev team seems to think that spreading the damage types around is a good idea.
Type damage on Blasters and on Tortofists
Extra type damage added to Magnus, Autogun, and Antigua (Tundrus isn't directly alchemized from magnus but you get the point)
As for Alchemers.... well I'm still waiting for the Shadow/poison alchemer and the pure elemental Brandish that hits as hard as a DA (RIP LD)
For the sake of argument I see where you are going, you don't want anything to compete with the Leviathan Blade and with a sword update of any kind I would be all for some tweaking on the Calibur Charge mechanics (to maximize potential damage) as well as a buff in base damage to keep up with status-free brandish attacks. Put these both in a sword update and the Calibur line would match the Nightblade line in neutral damage and thusly the 5* Cautery blade would then be outclassed by the Leviathan. (Of course in said update I would also be for buffing Troika speed and two swing sword damage)
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 23:08
#21
Err...
I'm not suggesting a sword update. Gunner update was to fill holes in our arsenal (and with guns, we had gaping holes. No mobile pierce damage, no real choice in guns - either speed with antiguas or damage with alchemers - etc), and they tried to patch up every hole possible that was within reason.
However, in the same update, they added shadow guns (of which we only really had two real choices for before), more elemental guns/statuses (wildfire as an alt to polaris for example), and mobile pierce guns.
Swords have the variety we need already in all honesty. Right now what we're lacking in swords is a heavy piercing sword. Only thing after that would be making the wild hunting blade into piercing damage.
What I said was that a normal-damage brandish will outclass the other line entirely because brandishes have controlled knockback. Leviathan blade has harder-to-control knockback on its charge, and brandishes already pound other swords into the dirt... Acheron makes gran faust unnecessary outside lockdown, combuster takes away DA and the rocket hammer's power... And now we want to affect leviathan blade and, in potentially, troikas? How about no.
(Sidenote: this is mostly in numbers. Enjoyment-wise, players may prefer gran faust over acheron, but that doesn't mean that the acheron is any less powerful because of preference)
Tue, 06/30/2015 - 23:35
#22
Night
If it becomes a full star line I think it should be reworked into something else because an anti-slime brandish isn't really needed nor special. We already have the shadow brandish, which is still a good all around item due to the high normal damage it has.
To avoid making more gun like swords, I think it should gain charge by hitting enemies with the basic combo, and the charge attack uses the stored hits to increase your attack rate and damage for a short time. The basic combo could also be changed but that doesn't matter too much.
Should switching out on it deplete the charged hits? Should there be a cap? And lastly, should it stay pure normal damage, or should it have a branched alt damage type?
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 00:19
#23
What if we changed the Cautery sword to be a branch-off of the Calibur line, and gave it strong fire and a calibur charge attack?
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 00:25
#24
@Hexzyle
That would change everything. I would agree with you if we had to buy the recipe seperately, like the Heater Shield works. I don't think fire would suit a sword eveolved from the Calibur line.
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 08:49
#25
Hmmm
I kinda wanted to keep from introducing mechanics that weren't already in the game. Originally I wanted to add an effect to this blade that would prevent healing (poison reverses it so don't bring that up) and prevents lichens from merging. I left this out because it would be a totally unique effect and would take time to program.
@ Fangel
Actually a sword update would be greatly appreciated to help balance out the blades and put the right ones back in their places. As I mentioned earlier I wanted Acheron combos to be as strong as the leviathan Blade combo. As such the alternate branches of these lines would adjust in power so as they are good at their intended use and don't take over the jobs of other blades. A balance update is needed when most of the players in the game are using just one line of weapons.
Prior to the Amputator debuff in TF2 everyone was either using the Ubersaw for team support or the Amputator for fighting as medic since it was just as powerful as the stock with extra healing. After the nerf it was balanced, sure it didn't do nearly as much damage as before but it still had the increase in self healing rate. All the weapons have a give and take in TF2, in SK the Brandish Family doesn't have any takes or negative factors, it just has positive ones. It outclasses the stock (Cobalt line of weapons) in damage and charge potential, they even outclass other weapons that trade speed for power (Sealed sword lines).
@ Wafflecone
This is an interesting concept and if this was applied to all brandishes then it would make this line more risky to use. I'm not certain this would be a positive change though, most of the monster families you combat with a brandish tend to clump together. Forcing the player to use the combo to get the charge would end up with them getting hit.
@ Hexyle
It's base damage would then be even lower than the CIV (even if the mentioned sword balance update was added) in fact it would end up with base damage comparable to the Shocking Salt bomb just without the dual type damage.
@ Bone
I would be fine if the recipe was to be purchased separately like the heater shield. Then it could be given unique mechanics that set it apart from the brandishes and Calibur line, I would love something like that. Regardless I would like to see it taken to it's full potential.
Imagine in the charge attack worked like the Smash attack for Shulk in SSB4. Rather than a calibur spin or a brandish wave it would fire an energy spike in the direction you unleash the charge, this would deal one large hit, a bit of knockback, have great flinch rate, and would set enemies on fire. As you further alchemize this blade up it's reach would extend to match the Brandish of the same star level and while the total damage to a single enemy wouldn't be quite as high the ability to pierce through a swarm of jellies would be awesome (especially against mini jellies which are a fairly heavy counter to brandish charges).
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 11:15
#26
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 11:31
#27
About that...
All the weapons have a give and take in TF2, in SK the Brandish Family doesn't have any takes or negative factors
Except they do have negatives. Specialized damage is set up so that it is effective against two families, and not effective against another two. Defensive armors are similar, in that they give you resistance against two damage types, and two statuses. You won't be 100% effective against other damage types or statuses, and thus a lack of a positive there is the negative.
The only issue here is matching normal damage. If we were to buff a brandish line's specialized damage and lower it's normal damage, it would be much more balanced. You could have an acheron still do the same damage vs slimes and even beasts, but vs undead it wouldn't be a viable choice anymore. This also puts more pressure on specialized defense in lockdown.
Yes, a sword update would be nice. No, we do not need it as much as we needed the gunner update. We need a bomber rehaul far more than we need a sword update by a long shot.
What if we changed the Cautery sword to be a branch-off of the Calibur line, and gave it strong fire and a calibur charge attack?
And what if on top of that we made it have elemental damage! Nah that seems too strong, maybe have it attack slower and require a lot of tokens to acquire.
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 12:34
#28
.....
@ Solotron
I love you
@ Fangel
I agree they do have negative factors they just aren't as massive as the Flourish or WMRH, even reducing the normal damage of the type damage brandishes would go a long way. Also what are your thoughts on the effect I mentioned at the top of post #25?
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 15:54
#29
It's it's own separate thing.
An ability like that should not be tagged onto a blade such as a brandish. It's interesting, however mindful knockback already fixes such an issue. Answer to your question: Don't really think we need it, especially not on a brandish.
Honestly if regular poison prevented lichens from combining that would be amazing alone, or at the very least made lichens combining take 25% damage to total health after combining (if two poisoned lichens combined together, the new lichen would have 50% health).
I've been believing that brandishes should have the increase in special and decrease in normal damage for a long while, I think it came to me when I was looking at Zeddy's thread that said "make every weapon do everything ever". I'm also reminded of it every time I take an acheron to a concrete jungle and beat the zombies over the head with it in a timely manner.
Wed, 07/01/2015 - 16:23
#30
@ Fangel
True it is a bit, still it would give it a unique edge over other brandishes and make it even at least a good party support weapon. I still think OOO won't do anything to lichens ever, they're more likely to put the brandishes back in their place.
The special effect might work if the blade was a one off like the Tundrus line and was no longer connected to the Brandishes at all. This would leave it open to mechanic changes that differ greatly from it's former brethren.
Check out the mechanics posted at the END of #25
NM I'll just copy paste:
"I would be fine if the recipe was to be purchased separately like the Heater shield. Then it could be given unique mechanics that set it apart from the brandishes and Calibur line, I would love something like that. Regardless I would like to see it taken to it's full potential.
Imagine in the charge attack worked like the Smash attack for Shulk in SSB4. Rather than a calibur spin or a brandish wave it would fire an energy spike in the direction you unleash the charge, this would deal one large hit, a bit of knockback, have great flinch rate, and would set enemies on fire. As you further alchemize this blade up it's reach would extend to match the Brandish of the same star level and while the total damage to a single enemy wouldn't be quite as high the ability to pierce through a swarm of jellies would be awesome (especially against mini jellies which are a fairly heavy counter to brandish charges)."
Fri, 07/03/2015 - 02:05
#31
+1
Nice idea like it. Please loook my idea too for a better gameing http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/110755
Tue, 06/27/2017 - 12:12
#32
Necro
Just to point out that they DO listen, but ...oh well...
Thu, 06/29/2017 - 14:22
#33
oh that's cute
Looking back on these statements makes me laugh a bit. Oh foresight, what a thing you are.
The name amputator, the assumption that it'll be CIV levels of damage, etc.
Be careful what you wish for I suppose.
Tue, 07/11/2017 - 07:04
#34
lol
i find it funny how it took 2 years to complete this suggestion
Mon, 07/17/2017 - 01:57
#35
About time
I thought I was the only one who wanted to see the thing get advanced past the stage it's at.
Thu, 01/14/2021 - 18:17
#36
.
TOLD YOU
Fri, 01/15/2021 - 03:12
#37
Curb your enthusiasm
Acheron is still better against Slimes.
Fri, 01/15/2021 - 07:09
#38
It's funny because you suggested it and everyone was like yes but that would be bad, and they did it and it was bad.
Tue, 02/16/2021 - 04:21
#39
+1
I support this suggestion. That said I wonder what is more ethical. Stopping a weapon line at 3 stars and being like ha gotcha, now craft something else. Or extending said weapon line to 5 stars.
I dont think normal damage would suit Brandishes. The charge lets out those wave's which I dont think will make sense with Normal swords.
This is just my opinion.