I load the floor and this is what I am greeted with.....

24 replies [Last post]
Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare

http://i.imgur.com/9PZuqgW.png

I pop open the Task manager just to get some stats....

I lost all my HP was 100% at the previous elevator plus 2 True love Lockets, and my emergency revive..... http://rs369.pbsrc.com/albums/oo140/erikahaleyjonas/gifs/ragee.gif~c200

And this isn't the first time I or anyone else brought up this problem... in fact it happens every Single TIME!

Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Yeah I always had problems with Apocrean missions. It makes my graphics card break down into tears, and burst into flames.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

I don't understand what you're even talking about here?

Did opening task manager cause you to die? Did you lose your True Love Lockets? What happens every single time? Every single time you play Apocrea? Every single time you open Task Manager?

Bopp's picture
Bopp
how often

How often does that task manager update its statistics? Were you observing them while the lag was happening, or just afterwards?

If these statistics depict the machine while the lag was happening, then I'm surprised that the CPU, disk, and network stats are so low.

Edit: I agree with Hexzyle that much more detail is needed, if you want us or Three Rings to understand what might be causing the bad behavior.

Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

I believe that the problem is that loading the level takes a really long time, and that he dies before it ever lets him do anything, barring him from playing unless he spends a spark.

At least...that's what I think he said.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

That doesn't make any sense though, aren't you invulnerable while loading?
Or is that the bug? And if so, why didn't he say so in the original post?

Phaseburst's picture
Phaseburst
Tentacle senpai pls go after someone else

The map is quite large for a single floor, so lag is to be expected for some players. Since leaving and rejoining isn't an option, try adjusting the graphics. Also, health trinkets don't really do much outside of LD since monsters hit harder the more hp you have.

Flowchart's picture
Flowchart

It's a memory leak problem apparently.
Restarting SK every run or two helps, could use the various tweaks to make SK use more ram if you have it, but that only prolongs the time needed before restarts.

Could also kill the process and rejoin (may still leave you vulnerable though)

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

I still don't understand this thread. It has a shadow copy in bug reports, its in general discussion, but the breadcrumb trail says it's in bug reports.

Also, health trinkets don't really do much outside of LD since monsters hit harder the more hp you have.

I'm sorry, what? In what way do you mean "hit harder"?

Phaseburst's picture
Phaseburst
.

Exactly what you think it does. The more health you have, the more damage enemies will deal to you with their attacks

Bopp's picture
Bopp
doubtful

The more health you have, the more damage enemies will deal to you with their attacks

That's a pretty extraordinary claim, that contradicts all of the research I've seen on defense and damage. Can you give evidence to support it?

Phaseburst's picture
Phaseburst
.

Try getting hit by an enemy once, then, without healing, get hit by the same enemy with the same attack. Also, what is this research of yours?

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
.....

When at full HP yes they make you lose more HP but in the long run you can take more hits total than not having them.

FYI I opened the task manager post death. Sidenote I always reduce my graphics to lowest when events roll around....

My complaint is lagging so hard that I am dead before I can even see the floor
Autofire hit the nail on the head....

Bopp's picture
Bopp
Phaseburst

Phaseburst, you seem to be right that a knight's potential health and remaining health have an effect on the damage dealt by monsters. I was misunderstanding some old conversations. Thanks for making me more aware of this phenomenon.

See for example the original post here. It suggests that monster damage dealt goes up as the remaining health goes down, which is not what you said, but that's probably because I'm misunderstanding the terms in the equation.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

Try getting hit by an enemy once, then, without healing, get hit by the same enemy with the same attack. Also, what is this research of yours?

Although these tidbits of data I recorded just over two years ago, they clearly display a constant amount of damage received, and I have not seen anything that indicates that the damage mechanics have changed in any way since then.
Received damage = Raw damage - Defense
This has been EXENTSIVELY tested [1] [2] [3] and even has been submitted to the Wiki in a summarized form for anyone to read.

Holy-Nightmare's picture
Holy-Nightmare
ok ok ok

Back on topic please

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven

Damage is not influenced by current HP or total HP.
% damage is influenced by total HP.
Damage is not influenced by sequential attacks of the same monster (unless said attack is a combo and the first swing deals different damage than the final swing).

Yes, I've taken data. Here is a good quantity of it (note the many sheets on the bottom for even more data in a cryptic labeling scheme that I used).

---

But that's not what this thread is about...
The servers can't seem to generate the levels fast enough for the demand of players playing the levels.
Somehow the AI begins right as the level is generated and anyone without a fast enough computer (to beat the AI from killing you) will die.
This is why every other depth has a party button or mist wall.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
Skepticraven

Damage is not influenced by current HP or total HP. % damage is influenced by total HP.

Since I don't understand the equations in your other thread (despite working in math professionally), maybe you could clarify this, please.

Are you saying (for example) that if a monster deals 126 damage to a knight with 400 health, then that's 31.5% damage inflicted. And on the next attack the monster again deals 126 damage, but the knight's current health is 274, so that's 46% damage inflicted? Then why are we even talking about percentage damage? It seems a useless concept.

So what are the B and C factors in the thread that I linked above?

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven

@Bopp

I think you are looking at the equations in the wrong context. That thread is about finding the exact value of damage.
A, B, C, and D are observable values that I used while backtracking Damage values.
My results of observing the various combinations of A,B,C,D bring forth the conclusions both Hexzyle and I listed above.

I find that in this game, % is actually a useful value. Most players are worried about how many attacks they can survive, not the exact damage value. The % I am referring to is the % total hp value.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
thanks

Skepticraven, thanks for clearing that damage question up. And I do agree that, in any specific tactical situation, players care greatly about the percentage. But it changes every time I pick up a vitapod, so it's hard to employ in theoretical discussions like this one.

Following up on Phaseburst's idea, I just ran a few simple tests that confirm that monster damage does not decrease with player health. So it appears that Skepticraven (and my original intuition) is right.

Back to the topic (sorry)...

I always thought that party buttons existed to make levels more loadable. But there are some huge levels, such as graveyards, that have none. I wonder why. Maybe those levels use fewer resources.

Or maybe party buttons are not about loading resources. Maybe they're about helping the slower knights keep up with the group. I notice that graveyards have very few treasure boxes. And it used to matter who opened a treasure box, before the drop rules were changed. Hmm.

Realmcutter's picture
Realmcutter
i see the problem, you're

i see the problem, you're using McAfee

Fehzor's picture
Fehzor

@OP

It's like those V8 commercials- "Could have had a prize box."

Also-

(despite working in math professionally)

The mystery of Bopp deepens! A math worker in the world of professional maths! Probably the Mr. Watson (but for math) of a generation.

Skepticraven's picture
Skepticraven

@Bopp

The level is loaded completely (minus spawning monsters) during the load screen. The scene doesn't paint all the graphic components unless they are in-screen.
The mist walls block both monsters and knights from going through, thus disabling knights from dying due to monsters eager to fight before they're done loading.
Party buttons function similarly but tend to appear more frequently mid-level to ensure the party is together when progressing.
At least that is my interpretation of the function.

That's not to say that the apocrean level is unique with having no mist walls/party buttons, but it is unique that the harvester will spawn without any player movement.
I can recall specifically the second depth of IMF also has no mist wall/party button prior to monsters... but they do require the knight to move for them to spawn.

Hexzyle's picture
Hexzyle

The second level of OCH is similar.

Bopp's picture
Bopp
Skepticraven

Your conclusions are reasonable. It's not obvious that the whole level is loaded during the load screen, rather than after each party button. But the lack of hiccups suggests so.

Even then, party buttons could still help with "pruning" parts of the level that don't need to be actively simulated, or that can be simulated only partially. This sort of thing is done a lot in games and graphics --- for example, level-of-detail nodes in scene trees. But I have not examined any Spiral Knights code to see whether party buttons do this kind of thing. Cheers.