Spiral Knights - Stupid Energy Buyers

Stupid Energy Buyers

24 replies [Last post]

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 07:51

Nolidor

...so I log into the game today just to check out the energy market after liquidating my assets. I still have some energy leftover, but I'm happy with what I got during the Steam game sale. Unless energy prices go down to below 7,500 because of the remaining energy I have, I made an effective profit...

...and what I see is completely bonkers.

People are trading more energy now for crowns than they were during the holidays. It's almost like they're deliberately trying to troll those of us who were offering to trade energy for games. They held back on buying energy just so they could get it after the sale was over.

There is literally no other incentive for them to buy energy now since you can get it cheaper by trading energy for games at discounted prices than buying it straight from the energy store. If anything, they should have known about the opportunity more during the holidays since people go back to work and school after the holidays and don't have as much time available to play games.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 07:56

Nolidor

(By the way, when I say

(By the way, when I say effective profit, I mean in terms of crowns. The fact is energy can be sold for Steam game cash equivalents at the same rate no matter what the crown/energy rate is. Even if the crown/energy rate goes below 7,500, I haven't lost any cash. All I'm saying is I could have had more energy to trade for games if I liquidated my assets after the crown/energy rate went down.

In essence, even if these people are trolling, it comes at zero expense to me. It's just a missed opportunity.)

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 09:57

Traevelliath

Ever heard of Hanlon's Razor?

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

So, I'm 99.99% sure this isn't a deliberate act of trolling. Most people are just too lazy to do any sort of trans-game transactions.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 10:19

Klipik-Forum

Something something 30 day wait period something something steam something something lazy something something impatient.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 12:23

Nolidor

It's possible they're stupid,

It's possible they're stupid, yes. At the very least, there's something worth complaining about for them being irrational idiots who just didn't do their research for spending real money.

However, they're not equally likely. The fact is people had more free time during the holidays than after the holidays to research where to find the best price.

Thu, 01/07/2016 - 13:17

Traevelliath

Erm... no...

Research is work. Holiday is free time. Why work during free time? I wouldn't bother with that sort of research for the reasons Klipik mentioned. Time wasted vs profit yielded, opportunity cost, blah blah blah...

Fri, 01/08/2016 - 02:06

Flowchart

Not everyone putting up energy on the energy market purchased it, they might have bought it before when it was at a lower price.

I agree that buying energy directly is far less profitable than trading on Steam for it (although TF2/CS:GO keys have a shorter waiting period than games and are more profitable) unfortunately such trading doesn't increase the amount of energy in the game and the cash ends up elsewhere instead.

Fri, 01/08/2016 - 11:35

Fangel

Would you look at that, it's the person who complains about the energy market again. We heard you the last four times you complained about how a game's economy being run by players, not statisticians, isn't optimal for your own energy habits.

I would say that a small portion of players attempt to liquidate their assets in Spiral Knights for profit elsewhere, as that pretty much requires a steam account. The energy market is for exchanging crowns for energy, and the other way around. The energy market is not exchanging energy for steam wallet funds, however you have the resources to do it. As such, you should compare the energy market to crowns in the game to energy in the game. We have a smaller size of energy in comparison to a very large amount of crowns. As such, crown to energy ratio increases, regardless of the profits being involved.

Fri, 01/08/2016 - 14:02

Petater

Don't worry

It'll be above 10kcr within a week. It only dipped temporarily because the remaining whales got christmas money. School is back and no one is spending on SK again, so it should be back to a normally scheduled broken market. GMs won't do anything about it because they probably think CE prices going up will get more people to spend on SK irl, when it's gone downhill in demand despite that (Can't really get people to value spending on a game that has no community or updates left). Everyone who spends IRL already did so during christmas, so now it's the afterparty where we jack up prices because they stopped. :)

Edit: BTW, I see the boiled frog experiment worked on you nolidor, as you thought 9400 is low for sale offers. We'll be seeing 10k maybe 20k very soon. xd

Sat, 01/09/2016 - 11:48

Gianor

Mhm, Okay.

Because, apparently, all SK players use the steam client and manipulate the energy market for other steam games. That's not how it works. Perhaps, people still want energy for other things, or it isn't being purchased as much? There's also a thing called box promotions that take people away from buying energy for a hot minute, and search for other ways to profit via the promotion.

I haven't been around for a while, but from what I can see, you tend to blame people for disrupting the economy on purpose, when it's really just how the economy functions.

Sat, 01/09/2016 - 15:30

#10

Nolidor

Trae, this whole game is

Trae, this whole game is work. It's a labor of love where you strive to play efficiently. Some people don't and get caught up in the graphics, but it's a very short-lived experience that takes a huge amount of time to reach. You can't honestly distinguish research from the rest of it. If you're going to sell that much energy for crowns, and you're not willing to research the best possible price to get energy in the first place, then you're wasting your time.

By your argument, people shouldn't play the game at all during holiday time. Instead, they should do this in substitution for a job (which doesn't even make sense).

Flow, I'd buy that argument if energy market margins were a lot wider. The problem is there isn't anywhere close to enough speculation to support it.

Fan, you're just trolling. You don't even bother discussing the point and jump to conclusions about personal attacks. On top of that, you're not even making sense. If there's a small amount of players who liquidate, then the small supply should be highly prized. Then, you say something about how the ratio should increase despite how the price has gone down.

Pet, that's what I thought would happen, but it didn't. The price stagnated over the holidays, and it's lower now than during the holidays. You'd expect people to spend their money from holiday gifts during the holidays, especially from the event. It doesn't make sense now, especially since they have less time to enjoy what they're spending on.

Gia, I never talked about everyone. You can have partial influences on how economies work. The point is the SK economy literally doesn't work (which is a large part of why I'm getting out of the game - to play other games which actually make sense). Sales don't even drive the price of energy down. Things have been so screwed up it's not even funny anymore.

The best explanation for the SK economy is that it's being deliberately ruined by trolls who are breaking things down just to make a point that things won't do what you expect. The problem is this trolling has carried on for so long that it's literally broken the whole thing apart...

...and then, people wonder why the game's lost its popularity. Give me a break.

Sat, 01/09/2016 - 15:41

#11

Midnight-Dj

@Nolidor

Fan, you're just trolling.

The best explanation for the SK economy is that it's being deliberately ruined by trolls

The chance of a natural occurring event happening is apparently smaller than the chance of a malicious few acting upon a game that has barely 800 players login in daily.

Tue, 01/12/2016 - 10:06

#12

Traevelliath

"Trae, this whole game is work. It's a labor of love where you strive to play efficiently. Some people don't and get caught up in the graphics, but it's a very short-lived experience that takes a huge amount of time to reach. You can't honestly distinguish research from the rest of it. If you're going to sell that much energy for crowns, and you're not willing to research the best possible price to get energy in the first place, then you're wasting your time."

Or you're a player who likes playing the game because you like the gameplay in the games you play. Seriously... most of the game is built around the gameplay. Is it that hard to comprehend someone playing for the gameplay? Is the game nothing but an economy with graphics to you?

"The best explanation for the SK economy is that it's being deliberately ruined by trolls who are breaking things down just to make a point that things won't do what you expect. The problem is this trolling has carried on for so long that it's literally broken the whole thing apart..."

Again, Hanlon's Razor! You're really overthinking it!

***EDIT***
You know what Hexyle, I agree with what you say a few posts below this one. I just don't even have the energy anymore. It's like yelling at a brick wall who thinks he's the smartest and most important brick wall in the world.

Sun, 01/10/2016 - 12:33

#13

Gianor

Mhm, Okay.

In your original post, you blamed the energy price inflation on people manipulating the steam market during the winter sale. I can guarantee you that if SK never came to Steam back in 2011, the energy prices would be relatively the same. Keep in mind the not all SK players use the steam client. I'm fairly confident that there isn't anyone out there whos deliberately trying to ruin the market as you're claiming. It's just the economy working as it was intended to by it's creators. And there's nothing you can do about it.

As for the reason the game is losing popularity, I'm also fairly certain the energy market has very little to do with it. As of now, you could play the entire game from start to end without even owning a drop of energy. Most people are losing interest because of the lack of content updates.

Mon, 01/11/2016 - 07:38

#14

Hexzyle

Remember this is the guy who posts things like this, this, gloating posts like this and this.

I'm just waiting the day when people will stop listening to his silly whining.

Mon, 01/11/2016 - 15:30

#15

Gianor

Mhm, Okay.

It's just fun to argue with him lol

Tue, 01/12/2016 - 08:05

#16

Nolidor

Midnight, it's not natural

Midnight, it's not natural for that to happen. What I'm saying is the player base in general has gotten malicious. The attitude of the community doesn't seem to be conducive anymore. There might be scattered genuinely respectful players here and there, but in general, it doesn't seem like they're prevalent anymore.

Trae, the game isn't an action platformer or action adventure game. Stats are a key element to it. Heck, I've very deliberately heard from an abundance of players that they find SK boring because the gameplay by itself is so bland. They wonder why people would bother playing it all since it feels like work to them. I understand what you're saying about Hanlon's Razor, but again, you're ignoring what I said about free time to research (as well as how previous Winterfests have had a price drop).

Gia, I didn't say people manipulated the Steam game sale. What I said is people weren't paying attention to it. If manipulation happened, it seemed to happen on SK's side because people were willing to pay more cash for energy than less.

The bottomline seems very, very simple. SK's community literally thrives on not making sense and trolling reasonable people. People are leaving because of its unreasonability.

Tue, 01/12/2016 - 11:49

#17

Klipik-Forum

I think the person making the least sense here is you. Why are you so resistant to the idea that the people with enough money to manipulate the market just don't know how markets work?

Tue, 01/12/2016 - 13:16

#18

Fangel

. . . . .

Fan, you're just trolling. On top of that, you're not even making sense.
...
Or you're a player who likes playing the game because you like the gameplay in the games you play.

Seriously... I've brought this up before - you do not single-handedly run this market, yet you make it out as if you are some benevolent force that bestows profit to those who assist you in profiting. All it comes across as is a holier-than-thou attitude and the rest of us shake our heads harder than someone trying to get a "yes" from a magic eight ball. Even your "helpful" thread a while back about market patterns became a drag. It was useful information (for a select few people) but it was constantly being bumped to the general discussion's front page, making it a rather annoying thread for the rest of us reading the forums.

If you asked every player in haven - every single player in every Haven instance how our market works, I assure you that a good 99% of them would not be able to tell you how it works. They might say "supply/demand", and while that is true, they're not going to be doing the math for every transaction they make within a video game. The game isn't life, it's a way to have fun in your own way within the constraints of the game environment.

Know why I play Spiral Knights? Because I have fun in Spiral Knights. Over four thousand hours, and I'm still having fun. Know what I haven't cared about in the entirety of those four thousand plus hours? How to profit from the energy market. Playing the game is fun. Crafting new gear is fun. Socializing with people and then running clockworks with them is fun. Lockdown shenanigans are fun... All of these, for me at least, are what I play Spiral Knights for. I've made great relationships, had a load of fun, created artwork and silly videos... And I've had fun the whole time.
Making a game a job sucks the fun out of it for me. So as long as you ignore the fact that we can have fun in a video game that has grown bland to you and that the feeling of blandness is your own feeling and not what every new and old player alike feel every second of every moment they have this game open... Well, I'll keep posting my thoughts on the countless threads you post complaining about how things aren't going your way.

So yes, I'm one of those "stupid energy buyers" because I simply don't care about the energy market patterns. If I need energy I'll buy some in one way or another. If I need crowns I'll sell energy in one way or another.

Tue, 01/12/2016 - 14:04

#19

Gianor

Mhm, Okay.

"It's almost like they're deliberately trying to troll those of us who were offering to trade energy for games. They held back on buying energy just so they could get it after the sale was over."

That's kinda manipulation.

Tue, 01/12/2016 - 15:18

#20

Midnight-Dj

@Nolidor

What I'm saying is the player base in general has gotten malicious. The attitude of the community doesn't seem to be conducive anymore.

In China, there is a saying, "There is no such a thing as a good and honest merchant."

Let's just say that your theory is true and someone really, having nothing better to do in their lives, decided to manipulate the energy market, so what? This is a part of marketing and trading, any merchant should know this, same as in IRL, they will boast, lie and cheat their way to profit. So what if they want more bang for their buck? It is natural for a man to want more than what he already have.

There is no reason to whine about the inevitable, this is honestly why I can't be bothered with posting 'SK is dying' threads, because right from the start, I already knew, nothing lasts forever.

Wed, 01/13/2016 - 03:01

#21

Nolidor

Klip, the argument I'm making

Klip, the argument I'm making is relative, not absolute. The point is there's more free time to look into things during the holidays than after. People should be smarter then and making better decisions.

Fan, at this point, I don't even think you understand art or what "fun" is. The definition of "bland" isn't an opinion. Honestly, you seem like the type of player who just plays SK because you don't know what else is out there (and maybe because you aren't willing to pay for actual games either). There are games out there which are much more sensational than SK which you could socialize and make better videos with. The graphics and gameplay in SK are extremely simple, repetitive, and not that flashy. Regardless of the specific emotional style you're looking for, it can be intuitively objectively understood that SK is bland. What makes it special is the economy.

Gia, exactly. There is no other incentive for them other than to be manipulative. Even for their own self-interest, it would have been better to get energy in advance.

Midnight, the point is there's no profit to be made. The crown price for energy went down, and they paid more cash for energy. That's not being a dishonest merchant. That's just being a spiteful idiot.

Wed, 01/13/2016 - 03:39

#22

Midnight-Dj

@Nolidor

What makes it special is the economy.

SK is nothing special when it comes to economy, try dead frontier, you will find it way funner when it comes to trading, and besides, you have 2000 players to profit off from.

That's not being a dishonest merchant. That's just being a spiteful idiot.

And there you have it, you, you are the one who is trying to manipulating the market, not the people who sold the energy, they made it cheap so they can get sold fast, is that being an idiot? No, because I have not known for a moment in my life anyone would invest money to make life less profitable, both in a game and IRL.

You want SK's economy your way? Well, get rich IRL then, buy the cheap energy and then sell them more expensive/cheap, and in the process, become the very thing you wanted to destroy. Eventually another Nolidor will rise up, some one just like you, who whines about the opposite.

You seem to want to teach us a lesson about trading, but like a whiny LD player who thinks AT is broken and bad for PvP, they forget that it is only a tool, and to complain about it is like forcing everyone to use shot gun in CoD, or not play Artillery in WoT. You want the energy market to be one way, and you are now complaining how it isn't.

How much people want to trade energy is their choice, not your call to make, you can whine as much as you want on this forum, it will change nothing. My personal advice, adapt to the new trend, or move on to the next game where people are, in your opinion, is trading properly.

Wed, 01/13/2016 - 10:25

#23

Traevelliath

If you want to treat a game like a job with a special economy, I highly recommend EVE online.

Otherwise: Fun, art, and bland are all subjective. There is no such thing as an objectively fun experience. It always will vary among people.

Wed, 01/13/2016 - 10:23

#24

Gianor

Mhm, Okay.

So first you call it manipulative, then you say that you never had, and finally you go back on that and say it's manipulative again. I do not agree with you or your opinions/statement, as I have explained so in a previous post, I was simply quoting your original post in which you described an act of manipulation. However, nobody is manipulating the market, you're just pinning an excuse onto it. If you're not going to play the game anymore, why care? Especially since the devs don't care about your thoughts.

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