It's always a pain to solo a shadow lair, especially if you don't have a ton of dosh to doll out, so I had an idea. What if Shadow Keys were removed from the game entirely, and replaced with a sort of energy gate that blocks off the lair. The gate would cost 450 ce if there is one person in the party, 900 ce for two people, 1350 for three people, and 1800 for four people. Even if you went solo, you would still end up losing money, but at least the lair would be much more affordable for those who can't really spare the money. It could even be a decent way to farm rads. I would LOVE to see this added, but I doubt it would be.
Shadow Lair Key Revamp
Sun, 06/19/2016 - 19:02
Mon, 06/20/2016 - 13:52
#2
+1000
Fellow soloer here giving thumbs up to this idea. I cant afford any more shadow keys :c
@Dagunner: I prefer soloing to full party any day. Unless the party is full of close friends. Which is rare. Cuz they all quit :L
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 03:21
#3
For my 1100+ hrs of SK i've
For my 1100+ hrs of SK i've never been to SL.
450energy just to play on slightly harder difficulty? To get lame rewards that doesn't even cover "entrance fee" ?
And there is no "shared key buy" system. You have to give 450 en to some random dude.
What if something happens to your internet? Like...totally unexpected sht. And you already spent 450....fk that.
Nah. No way i go there if rewards/key cost stay same.
This game takes too much time to earn very minor amount of CR. 1,5 hr for 8k. Thats what you get. Thats not even 100 en. Farming FSC for 5 hrs just for ONE SL run that doesnt even give you anything? Only desperate people do that.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 06:44
#4
@triplescrew
That is true, shadow lairs need to become cheaper, and they need to be more rewarding, having cheaper keys and more rewards would be better, so supper massive chest rooms at the end and more shadow lair gear would be cool.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 11:37
#5
How about...Make SL elevators
How about...Make SL elevators cost energy (yes just like Old elevator system) instead of Shadow key requirement.
That will prevent extreeme En loss in case of internet failure.
Also, each knight will pay for him/herself (with ability to pay for others as option). No need to give your CE to suspicious species.
Starting cost is 20 ce. Next floor 25, then 30, 35 and the last one is 40 , SFSC has 5 floors =150 ce total.
Something like that. Depends on CE cost though.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 12:40
#6
A while ago I suggested making Shadow lairs free. The thread can be found here but I'll summarize the relevant parts.
Step 1: Move shadow lairs to the core terminal of their boss gate.
Step 2: Lock all parties after D25.
Step 3: Shadow lair armor now costs 10 SL materials instead of one + costs half a shadow lair key to craft.
The end result would be more areas to grind for endgame materials, some challenge getting there, and since everyone just pays 1/4 of a key for a mat now and then never runs again, more profit from the system. Then Fangel derailed my thread and it was forgotten.
----
When I was looking for my thread I found this thread that I disagreed with but now think merits some value- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/39494
Basically, once you get the echo stone you have SL clearance forever on that shadow lair. This could go hand in hand with my idea above or stand on its own, and would still make the buying of the key a critical part of shadow lairs.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 13:50
#7
I think one possible simple
I think one possible simple solution would be to divide the price of a shadow key by 4, then make it that each party member needs one, the currently existing shadow keys could be turned into 4 shadow keys. While this might not be the best solution, it would work, and would require the least amount of change to the system, hence being the least likely to disrupt balance (not that there was any anyway).
Also, if this was implemented, then a system that allows for a person to replay that shadow lair for free if they've beaten it could be implementable, as they would just not need a key while their team mates would. Although I doubt this would ever be implemented unfortunately.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 15:22
#8
@No-More-Starlight
1) You should remember that going Down from core terminal = going inside CORE. SL are not in the Core. Therefore i think entrance location should stay as is.
Plus its quite tiring doing FSC....And if SFSC will be after FSC....Man, thats BAD FOR HEALTH. You know...Not everyone ready to sit for 4 hrs in front of PC doing both.
2) Party should be locked when you enter SL. Not when you doing arcade.
3) I dont care how many mats....But 900 ce for 5* gear? Meh. 3 alchemy orbs are enough.
Btw, Snarb armor set is already quite good. It doesn't need any buffs. Full set is very effective against Fiends. And fiends are most annoying of all monsters.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 18:12
#9
Did anyone suggest buffs to
Did anyone suggest buffs to the snarbolax gear? I reckon that there should be more SL gear, like weapons and shields.
Tue, 06/21/2016 - 21:16
#10
I wrote all of those with great consideration.
1a) Shadow lairs are supposed to be post-Vanaduke and take place in a swarm-like environment that could easily be related to the core or "around the core". Placing it at the core puts it there and also means that worse players won't find themselves against Darkfire Vanaduke.
1b) The current game is bad for your health as is. It requires 4-9 hours of grinding per piece of gear, which is akin to highway driving. If radiant fire crystals are to be some sort of crazy endgame thing then by all means, long runs would be welcome. That in mind, 2x D24-core = considerably less than the "cradle and all" or "dauntless delver" cheevos.
2a) Shadow lairs are supposed to be special. Currently it's a big deal because it's hard and there are considerable financial risks involved. If you take away that risk it becomes like FSC- sign up + farm if you die it's whatever just try again. To balance this I suggested going down to the core and then continuing from there-- instead of CE you'd be risking the time spent getting there.
2b) Running the arcade is rather lackluster for a lot of players, and putting shadow lairs as a carrot at the end of the stick would be an excellent reward. Preventing joining at D25+ would punish teams lacking teamwork- if anyone leave you're down a member.
3)The sets aren't the best, they're for bragging rights. You see someone in Haven wearing full shadow lair gear and you know they reached the endgame. Currently the armor costs 450 CE + 3 orbs + one shadow lair mat per piece, which is quite pricey and makes the achievement that much harder. Since SLs have lost most of their luster for endgamers, finding a complete party willing to pay 450 CE each is rather difficult and many players end up paying a full 1.8K CE just so that they can get what they really need. If you make the SL armor costly it keeps its value intact while providing a more paced price for players. 450 CE per piece would be acceptable as well.
4) Snarbolax gear is trash when you have access to black kat.
Why are you trying to solo shadow lairs? wouldn't it be more efficient farming in a group? After all, you could split the cost.