Spiral Knights - Vote for removing invincitinks (MISSION COMPLETE!)

Vote for removing invincitinks (MISSION COMPLETE!)

45 replies [Last post]

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 08:37

Sir-Pandabear

Greetings fellow knights!

Invincitinks were introduced in August 2012, with the shard bomb update. For those not in the know, it's a hard limit on the amount of hits within a given time a weapon, item, or battle sprite is capable of inflicting. It's put there intentionally (although imperfectly) for the purpose of, as far as I can tell, explicitly preventing these attacks from being good.

It looks like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_A-PA0zflI

Notice how the bags stop taking damage for many bombs in a row. When three hits in a row (such as with core + 2 shards) strike the bag, any further attacks will tink. Tinking prevents damage, knockback and interruption. With a loud, shrill noise, the game tells you "Hey".

"You picked a garbage weapon there. Craft something else."

Maybe you think from the video that this is something I can only reproduce in a lab environment, but the cold truth is that I've been subjected to invincitinks in all manner of runs, fighting everything from greavers to lumbers. This isn't unique to shard bombs, either. Tortoguns and Seraphinx' laser suffer the same fate. There's also barrier pickups, but noone really cares about barrier pickups.

I want you to read that previous paragraph again. I really have gotten invincitinks while fighting greavers, and died as a result. Imagine that scenario. A greaver swoops in towards you, going for the bite. Your only hope is to attack first, so you swing your final flourish. It connects. You hear a metallic noise as the sword passed harmlessly through the greaver. It bites you, and a shocking haze spreads around it, disabling you. All of the other greavers swoop in after it finishes you off.

Did that sound fair to you? This is what us shard bombers have to deal with all the time, and I, for one, have had it.

If you feel like there needs to be an end to invincitinks, reply with a "+1". You may also add why you believe so.

If you feel like there DOES NOT need to be an end to invincitinks, reply with a "-1" You may also add why you believe so.

If you have been, thanks for reading, thanks for voting.
~Zeddy

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 08:45

Spiral-Idiot

The entire first ability of my pet is useless while invincitinks exist. Why bother shooting a laser that will do nothing when you have 2 other options that actually do their jobs?

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 12:33

Bubbly-Kush

Just when I was trying to roll to a full bombers you show me this?? :( I don't even want to anymore lol.

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 13:35

Top-Platinum

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 14:33

Theirillusion

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 15:24

Neueragon

the faster, the better.

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 18:20

Ziulyx

Yes

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 19:50

Angel-Girl

I finally know what that is.

And that is one of the reasons I chose the aesthetic of the Seraphynx Light Ray ultimate instead of looking at the ultimate skill. =w=

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 20:14

Flowchart

I doubt they'll care about the results of this, so -1 just for the heck of it.

Wed, 08/16/2017 - 21:18

Fehzors-Forum-Alt

-1 I vote for the game to be worse overall.

Thu, 08/17/2017 - 13:48

#10

Thats-Rough-Buddy

-1 Waste of time.

-1
Waste of time.

Thu, 08/17/2017 - 16:03

#11

Deurus

Why did they introduce the "Invincitinks" to begin with?

Thu, 08/17/2017 - 16:07

#12

Deurus

Why did they introduce the "Invincitinks" to begin with?

Fri, 08/18/2017 - 02:33

#13

Fangel

I can see application of the tinks in a different format, but they currently do more harm than good and while I would prefer a revamp, a removal would be best for the time being.

As for my "revamp", I would say certain weapons can have something to them where damage will go down 10% per attack until it is down to 50% attack damage. This way, no matter what, you're still doing damage, even if it's heavily reduced. I would apply this to the seraphynx laser (it does a good job as is - great for defense/stationary targets but you need a proper harness), autogun, brandish, and magnus charges. Tortogun charge crystals and barriers could probably also get this treatment.

Fri, 08/18/2017 - 05:54

#14

Sir-Pandabear

It's not a bad idea. Implementing such a mechanic could be a baseline for boosting damage when comboing. Imagine cutter, shard bombs and antiguas increasing in damage as you racked up combos.

Fri, 08/18/2017 - 12:23

#15

Agentz

BLARGH +1

I would love to be able to actually use shard bombs again. Please Grey Havens, this would be one of the relatively simplest and best minor changes you could possibly do! ~Z

Fri, 08/18/2017 - 18:03

#16

Crazee-Pi-Forum

Remember, don't shoot food.

Also, zoop.

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 00:52

#17

Sir-Sappy

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 06:21

#18

Skepticraven

↑↑↓↓←→←→ba

-1 thread belongs in suggestion subforum.

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 07:16

#19

Sir-Pandabear

This isn't a suggestion. I've submitted this matter multiple times in both bug reports and suggestions.

It's an opinion poll.

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 08:26

#20

Skepticraven

↑↑↓↓←→←→ba

For everyone else's reference, the threads you mentioned hasn't had any activity in 3 years. Of course, you've had plenty more related comments scattered around the arsenal and general discussion subforums and even satire suggestion threads [could be an actual valid suggestion, but the language is in a mocking form]. This thread is simply an addition to that list of satire comments and threads you've made.

I honestly don't know why they adding 4 treasure boxes to the end of compounds was done, but damage immunity to certain combos hasn't been addressed.

That being said, I don't think making threads with wording such as "You picked a garbage weapon there. Craft something else." particularly gives the developers incentive to make changes. My opinion is that this thread's purpose is to continue the trend of the community to belittle choices that the developers made a long time ago. As such, I stand with my -1 for this opinion poll.

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 11:30

#21

Lordcalvinheins

it makes barriers are useless D:

except for the drakon's second skill which doesn't have invincitinks :D

but the drakon's second skill can't break walls D:

and just for balance :D

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 17:49

#22

Bonjourhippo

-1

Invincitinks were introduced to balance certain weapons in Lockdown such as said shard bombs. Removing Invincitinks means reintroducing issues. The description of Invincitinks is maybe not quite right either as weapons like the warmaster hammer can deal 5 or 6 short burst extremely powerful hits (don't quote me on the actual amount of hits). It's definitely not handled in Lockdown by tinks, it's handled by invinciframes which are a far more robust way to tackle the initial shard bomb problem. If tinks get removed they have to be replaced by something else.

Sat, 08/19/2017 - 18:19

#23

Sir-Pandabear

@Bonjourhippo

Invincitinks have nothing to do with Lockdown, please look at the video. You're thinking about invinciframes.

One makes underpowered attacks even more underpowered and the other keeps knights from instantly dying.

@Skepticraven
Awesometinks was a legit suggestion that I still believe in .

I'm not sure how much more delicately I could word the thread. When I encounter invincitinks, I can feel the game judging me for trying to do something it thinks is wrong. Like it's singing an ode dedicated to everyone who loved these bombs.

That tinking sound honestly makes me feel sick at this point. It's gotten to where my shoulders will pavlonially sink down when I hear the sound disconnected from the mechanic itself, such as when hitting a gremlin shield.

Implementing tinks was a bad choice. Nobody benefited from it. Whatever problem it was trying to solve, it didn't.

Fri, 08/25/2017 - 18:36

#24

Zero-Chill

Will make shard bombs be more viable same for sera's first skill but I don't think it's necessary on defensive barriers TBH you can reset the timer by just walking away and walking close again removing invisitinks from those would make them quite OP actually.
Well I don't get what is the purpose of invisitinks can someone please tell me? (seriously IDK LOL) Also do any other weapons have them or just shard bombs?

Fri, 08/25/2017 - 21:07

#25

Doctorspacebar

+11

This should've been done a long time ago. I'll admit Shard Bombs might've been a bit overpowered in the old days, but the tinks are frankly ridiculous. We should be rewarding effective use of Shard Bombs, not penalizing it.

Sat, 08/26/2017 - 05:10

#26

Lacmancar

Fri, 09/08/2017 - 12:29

#27

Nitronicx

The "invincitinks" update

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/118821

Thoughts?

Fri, 09/08/2017 - 12:45

#28

Sir-Pandabear

I'd like to thank everyone for helping make this a reality.

Gray Havens, I don't care what anyone else says about you guys from this point. In my book, you're alright. This was the only updated I ever wanted.

Fri, 09/08/2017 - 14:17

#29

Fangel

it is glorious

Zeddy, myself, and another knight from the discord server delved into the clockworks with the reworked bombs. Honestly it's the most fun I've had in a long while with Spiral Knights - reminds me of the early days after the gunner update where I was super excited over the iron slug being an absolute monster!

The bombs feel powerful now, and you get proper feedback on what you're doing. They're still a bit chaotic, tossing enemies around slightly which can catch you off guard, but they are definitely solid weapons now! Thanks, Grey Havens. :)

Fri, 09/08/2017 - 17:23

#30

Zero-Chill

OH THANK YOU SO MUCH ZEDDY

<3 <3 <3

Fri, 09/08/2017 - 22:26

#31

Batabii

What is anyone talking about? They never removed invincitinks! Look at the patch notes again

up to 3 shard hits

That doesn't sound like they were removed at all. And the torto guns are even worse!

I even tested them in the GTH and at BEST they're barely on par with the DBB, assuming it hits a single enemy three times.

Sat, 09/09/2017 - 00:45

#32

Pluto-Embershard

Worse for single target, that much better for crowds.

I've had a Barrier Cannon in my inventory for some time, went ahead and walked through the first floor of FSC at level 8.

On the first wave of the first floor's final arena, got them corralled into one point and unleashed a charge. Single charge one-shot half of the entire group in itself, the others having not died because they were on the edges.

Considering the gun's charge was meant to be an AoE attack for multiple targets, I don't see how this change is so bad. I mean, it's not to say it's still reliable though as it's pretty difficult to get some perfect RNG going, but it's a hell of a lot better than only one-shotting a single enemy and having literally every other one unscathed, with all of the damage put onto that single poor soul.

Sat, 09/09/2017 - 02:42

#33

Sir-Pandabear

@Batabii

The tinks may not be "gone", but they are no longer broken.

The problem was when this happened:
Hit with core.
Hit with next bombs core.
Hit with 2x shards.
Hit with - TINK
TINK
TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK TINK

The limit now applies per individual bomb instead of all shard bombs the player dropped, collectively. This is how the hit limit was described as working five years ago when shards were announced, and it's how they were finally fixed to work.

Hitting anything with core +3 shards at once is almost an impossible feat, meaning that invincitinks, as far as shard bombs are concerned, are effectively gone, even though they're not pedantically gone.

It means the bombs can finally be used as intended, being way more deadly in cramped spaces, and doing way more damage to large or stationary enemies.

Sat, 09/09/2017 - 04:16

#34

Sir-Pandabear

By the way the tinks are gone on Sera's laser.

Sera's laser is now a good laser.

Sat, 09/09/2017 - 11:27

#35

Sir-Pandabear

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/863985014567116042/98C79157AA...

I'm inviting everyone for a barbecue.

Sat, 09/09/2017 - 20:13

#36

Batabii

By the way the tinks are gone on Sera's laser.

Holy crap that's the best news of this entire update.

Sat, 09/09/2017 - 20:13

#37

Batabii

(how do I delete posts)

Sun, 09/10/2017 - 06:12

#38

Eternity-Terminal

WHAT!!!?

I gotta play this game again. It just got a whole lot better.

Tue, 09/12/2017 - 14:53

#39

Sir-Pandabear

@Eternity-Terminal

You definitely should! Shard Squad will be waiting for you.

Wed, 09/13/2017 - 11:07

#40

Sgt-Brownie

Erecting a Handgun Dispenser!

Sounds like an opportune time to build a Bomb-only solo set, since there's now a reliable-enough damage Bomb for every element type.

Thank God for Ex-OOO Employees: The Company. Keep it up.

In other, more important news for me, how are the Tortogun charges now? Are they better or worse?

Wed, 09/13/2017 - 16:25

#41

Fangel

seem about the same

From my experience, tortofists aren't any better or worse. Probably better for crowds of enemies, but seeing as how I relied on impact damage anyways it's not too big of a change for my gameplay.

I will say that making wolvers teleport into charge shards is more rewarding now at least.

Wed, 09/13/2017 - 23:49

#42

Abelisk

I have waited for this moment

I have waited for this moment for three years.

Sun, 09/24/2017 - 08:05

#43

Thinslayer

Better start using shard bombs now. :P

Sat, 09/30/2017 - 02:26

#44

Flash-Flire

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassss

#MakeShardsGreatAgain
no?
i'll see myself out

Sat, 09/30/2017 - 02:37

#45

Flash-Flire

oops

#MakeDoublepostsGreatAgain

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Vote for removing invincitinks (MISSION COMPLETE!)