Guys I hate to ruin this for you, i dont know if anyone said this, but this idea sucks. Reason? someone puts a 5 star armor on the auction for like 45k crowns, a newbie saves up the money and jumps straight to the 5 star gear, would ruin all the sweat u spill to make your own armor wouldnt it? this way everybody sells all their mats and gathers the money for the 5 star items. Next day everyone is gear capped and there is nothing left to do, it would be a better idea to make the auction but for mats/reciepes only,wouldn't it?
We really need an Auction House!
Mishiless, there's nothing that stops a player from making such a transaction right now, with or without an auction house. I take it this means you'd like more intrusive authoritarian oversight into sales and trades between individual players.
I think such a stance is unwise.
yes, but considering that every item will drop on the price [(ooh he's selling it for 400? ill show him! ''sell for 350) style], the 5 star items will become more avivable to all the noobies, so, like i said, auction for reciepes/mats is a better solution for this problemo.
That would be quite suboptimal, and assumes a player dedicated enough to constantly craft five-star armor could instantly meet all demand. That's more than a little far-fetched.
Right now most players are just hoarding materials because it's too hard to trade them. That's a large portion of your total income from gates being wasted, and that means everything to do with the economy is broken right now, including energy prices. Not having an auction house for this long means material prices will be destroyed for months after an AH is put in as it is, and it's going to get worse the longer this situation continues.
I definitely agree, the only problem I can see is ridiculously long lists with equally ridiculous amounts of dime-a-dozen materials (e.g. Player 1-20 selling 500 Brimstone). I would suggest different traders, each having separate auction windows for different-starred mats. So 1-2 traders for 1 star mats, 1-2 traders for 2 star mats, etc.
@Matoro: By definition, a "common" mat will never become rare because, well, it's common. I can see the rare mats getting rarer, but not something really easy to get (again I'll use the Brimstone example) becoming suddenly harder to obtain.
I swear, its like I'm back in 2008. People, we are not arguing over the economy here. In more serious terms, if if three rings thinks that a catastrophic economic hyper-deflation of material values will happen because of a better trading system (eliminating what could very well be a major server strain), then why not a literal auction house, like that one on wall street ? no supposed economic deflation, and no spam in the main zones.
@Mishiless
Who would sell a 5 star armor for 45k? Don't the recipes cost that much? Anyway, say someone did. So what? They're choosing to give up their profit. And a newbie getting a 5 star armor for 45k? Well, that's the price they paid, they definitely aren't going to be getting it quickly unless they pay real cash and buy/sell a lot of energy (and that'd be a good thing for the game, so you can't really complain about that).
Let's not forget, in order to produce said 5 star materials, they'd have to not only acquire the materials (some of which are rare and even an auction house can't solve that) but spend energy and time leveling up a level 10 4 star armor just to keep doing this. I don't think even a guild could continuously pull this off. They have enough trouble trying to control gates. The effort this would require is tremendous and not very rewarding (whee...more crowns) and a sustained effort would pretty much mean they never go into the clockworks. If they are willing to do all of this, just so "noobs" can get a 45k armor, then its worth it. Let's not forget, this excludes doing the same for a helm, a weapon, and a shield...
Also, your hard work is YOUR hard work. Nothing anyone else can do can devalue it if you don't let them. There's plenty of people, paid or not, who surpass me, but so what, they aren't working the way I do, playing the game the way I play it, and its not like there's any sort of cash leaderboard so no one can tell that they're even better than me.
And to be honest, I think most people want this for materials/recipes rather than armor. Sure, both probably should be implemented, but I think the bigger problem is too many materials.
@Matoro, anyone buying your yellow shards for 500c is being completely and totally ripped off. That's your right to sell it like that, but they should still have fairer options. Besides, trading markets wouldn't do much for things inside the clockworks, so you could still tri- I mean offer that price to random people exploring in subtowns, not all of them will have time to go back to haven just to get a 100c yellow shard. And just like how you are getting over on them now, not everyone will understand or know about the auction house, nothing is stopping you from continuing to offer 500c yellow shards.
@Mishiless: I'm pretty sure you can't sell 5* armor anyway. 5* armor requires the 4* armor at level 10 as one of the components, usually. This means someone would have to equip it to level it up, thus soul binding it to them. So, that would prevent newbies from getting any gear higher than T2 right off the bat. Unless there's some way to trade 5* armor that I don't know about...
Anyway, an AH would EVENTUALLY lead to stabilized prices for materials. Things like gel drops may be 10 crowns because there's *so* many of them, but things like Trojan Horseshoes may very well be 50K crowns because the demand is much higher than the supply. Right now, prices are off for materials because A) You have to track down a seller (you'll be more likely to pay more) or, in some cases, B) A seller has to track you down (he'll likely give you a better deal, seeing as you're his *only* customer within a mile).
agreed, an action house, with posted sellers and buys, as well as auctions of course, would be vary use full
Yeah that is another good point not to have an auction house....but wait I have like 60 stuffs of light shards! Why not we have an auction house for 1 to 3 star matz only? Since they are very common, and some people just wants to get their matz right away so they can just craft something already. I mean, I don't know what to do with 1000 matz! I don't want to give it for free, but I don't want to wait around wasting my time trying to sell a common mat.
akragster,
Well, when the gear is finally crafted, it's no longer bound until the someone chooses to. And so you can trade it, although you'd be giving up quite a lot of hard work to do it.
Are you really complaining that other people are undervaluing items? wow. Just buy up the cheap stock and put it all out there at your higher price if you actually think that's the value of the item. You make money that way. Otherwise you're just overvaluing an item and due to the lack of an AH or other stable market, you're able to easily get more than the actual value of those mats. That's not new player friendly and shouldn't be encouraged anyway.
I think that just implementing an auction house would take a lot out of this game. Trading like we do now means actual contact to other players. Buying off of an auction house means just a click. What makes this game fun to play is all the time spent interacting with other players.
Yes, we do need improvement on the trading system. But I think it must be done in another way, through a trading channel for example. Or just create a "garage sale" part of haven, where all those wanting to buy/sell can go, so they don't have to shout all over haven to be sure they reach everybody whos willing to trade. Most of the time it's not a problem to find someone to buy your stuff, only you have to annoy everybody else while doing so.. That's why I think that removing the annoyance is more important / a better way than just anonymizing the whole process.
Yo! I was using a marketing tactic of psychological pricing! I am not really ripping them off! People do that all the time! Plus I find that picking up Yellow shards is scarce now a days.
Currently the economy is ruled by people who can spend tons of time online acting as thier own auction house. By creating an automatic auctioning system the prices would stabilize and require less focus / time by players. I would like to see a comodities exchange for all of the components that works just like the energy market (buy and sell orders), and an auction house for items. Because of unique variants having a startting bid, buy out, etc would make a lot of sense.
For those who fear the drop in peak value, this would be offset by all the people who are doing nothing with their materials, who can now sell them for a fair price and spend more on things they want.
A searchable auction house would be a huge boon. Player run economies need the ability to exchange goods and currencies between people who aren't online at the same time, and people need to be able to get an idea of what the market value of an item is without spending several hours each day for a week staring at trade channels.
I think an Auction House would take a lot out of this game.
At that point, you might as well make enemies drop bags of crowns and have weapons cost pure crowns + energy to craft.
~
I agree thoroughly with Sunarien and wow I used the exact same phrasing as him in my first sentence. Huh.
Anyway, let's see...
"Currently the economy is ruled by people who can spend tons of time online acting as thier own auction house."
If you spend more time acting as your own auction house, you're spending less time getting material drops and crown drops. Yes, it costs you no energy, but that's just part of the energy dynamic.
~
I wouldn't say no to, like what Sunarien suggested, an improvement in the trading system like a specific location (or even just a specific channel, maybe) -- but there's definitely something very special about the human contact trading system going on here. Materials are an important resource throughout the game (often someone will run out of shards of the one colour they've homed in on, and end up with excess other shards) and there is an extremely interesting dynamic in the natural-feeling trade system.
If you don't want to spend the time, you can just sell/buy for low/high, respectively, and get back to dungeoning quickly :D
an Auction House would be a great idea... I hope it comes soon~
I'd definitely stop playing if it doesn't. Staring at the chat channel is a waste of time.
Seems pretty much essential for 'mats' to me. Other items would really benefit too (though Isuppose they could be left out as a sop to the people who like shouting a lot).
I have no interest *at all* in the standing around shouting aspect of trading. Rare and unique items would still generate some more direct activity of course.
fees would make my desire to use it go down the drain.
and the clockworks are already extremely too full. /lol
but yeah, it'd be a nice feature.
Fees aren't a big deal if its performed like energy. Sellers pay the trading fee after getting a sell(I think...I don't sell energy just buy lol). And its only 2%. I'd take that on an item that just never sells. Better than 1 crown >.>
I don't care if people still want to do the shouty thing. I'd happily pay 100c or 2% or 5% for this.
I would like to se an auction house system like the one in FFXI!
When someone puts up an item for sale, he states a price, and the item gets added to the sale list. But no one can see the prize.
Then someone else wanna sell the same kind of item, but can not se any other prizes for that item, so he has to put a prize of his own..
So whenever someone wanna buy an item, he states what he is willing to pay, if the payment is high enough, he gets the cheepest item. and gets back any exces money...
Example:
Agnes wanna sell an Iron gear. She puts it up for 800cr.
Bill wanna sell an Iron gear. He puts it up for 850cr.
They cannot se eachothers prizes.. ever..
Ceasar wanna buy an Iron gear, he sees that there are two for sale, but he will not se any prizes.. He offers 1000cr..
The cheapest on costs 800cr, So he gets an Iron gear, gets back the exces 200cr, and Agnes gets her 800cr.
If two items have the same prize, the oldest gets sold first.
another option that I haven't read yet, we've already got a bazaar option on the forums, that could function as an AH/player vendor if we could send items COD. Then, all players would have to do is post on the boards and take the best offer and whether or not the buyer is online the seller can mail the item COD and still get the promised price minus a small mailing fee.
Remember that at the heart of this game is that fact that it's simple and casual fun. Players play for an hour or two a day (unless they pay more), and that's it. It's fun to go down into the depths, defeat some bad guys and get your loot. That's why we're all here. What's not fun is finding that your loot is worthless to the goal of progression because you cannot easily sell or trade it for loot you can use for progression. Shouting your wares in the general chat channel is boring, inefficient and did I mention boring? I want to be busy killing things and looting things and making new equipment, not trying to find a buyer for my 100 Blue Shards.
An auction house solves this. Keep it simple - modeling it like the energy market is fine by me, slap a % on the cost for the seller and you're done. No need to put the price in energy or crowns as you can always convert crowns to energy anyway. Keeping it simple and fun for the folks that are here for a casual game is for the best.
Furthermore, the game is going to need ways of getting money out of the economy. Converting to energy is one way, but I have a feeling that an auction house will go a long way to stabilize prices and the game economy at large.
In the short run, a trade channel is fine. If nothing else, it would always be used for folks who are looking for crafting services. But in the long run, we need an auction house.
Yes, lack of auction house is the one big problem with this game. And selling on /1 really isn't nearly efficient enough.
I already need to spend as much time on the chat as the time I spend in gates if I want to sell my 5* materials. And I'm ignoring every other material, and recipes ...
I can't ignore 5* materials too either, my gate runs wouldn't even gain me enough energy to cover their cost ... and I need to upgrade my gear too.
I would also like to see an auction house. Or at least a way for players to sell their materials without having to resort to spam in /1.
I spent an hour yesterday, spamming in the (only) general chat, that I was selling rare mats, and tons of 0-4* mats. I made 400 entire CR. Reading the spam, and trying to pick which person out of the dozens to buy your mats from is a pain.
I am used to REAL MMOs that have auction houses. Not spamming in the one general chat available, that you are trying to sell the same exact mats that everyone else is.
And for all the people who assume undercutting will fly, they have no clue how auction houses work. I absolutely guarantee you that people will see items being sold under the fair market value, buy the item, then flip it. That's how I used to make money in games such as WoW, EVE, and Rift.
Give us an AH. It won't hurt the game, and anyone who argues it will needs to go take economics 101.
Signed. We really need an auction house.
with the amount of trading that goes on in this game and in beta, it's pretty surprising they didn't make something like this for launch. but perhaps they're working on it already and plan on implementing it soon
or at the very least, a trade channel that spans havens and is hide-able for those that don't wanna see it
Bring the free market in. Let supply/demand dynamics rule. Do not let people continue ripping off newbies. As it is we already have someone in this very thread objecting to having an auction house because it would STOP HIM/HER FROM RIPPING OFF NEWBIES.
Make sure hackers stay out. Heck, charge energy per entry into the auction house. Then everybody wins, developers make real money, the ingame economy becomes supply/demand driven.
Yup we need one, with a clean interface and easy to use.
No high fees either, it's hard enough doing things in this game.
For now, a trade channel (or two) spanning havens might be good, esp if it had a fee per broadcast. (to discourage people from spamming the same thing every 5 min, or to keep hordes of people mass-advertising the availability of blue shards).
Without code changes, some management tweaks could also help: note that the bazaar forum has more than 600 threads after a mere 2 weeks from launch, and generally, topics only last 3-4 hours before being pushed off the front page. I think that more sticky threads to organize things would go a long way towards compacting the mess over there. If that's the officially sanctioned advertising venue, it should be made as useful as possible.
Energy per Auction House visit? I don't like that personally. It should be a place we visit daily, multiple times a day.
Supply/Demand however is a good idea.
save the beginners, introduce an ah !
Auction house is needed, but I would like to see a more general "exchange" implemented. I'm thinking specifically of being able to trade mats for mats, by paying some amount of crowns (based on the * level of the mats). So I could offer light shards in exchange for dark or green shards, instead of going through the intermediate step of selling my shards for crowns. This would not be a substitute for a real AH, but might be a nice adjunct.
I agree that an auction house is an excellent idea.
Although I do somewhat enjoy the erratic nature and interaction of the current economy, an auction house would be a plus. Here is how I think a Auction House (I'd personally want it to be called "Auctioneers Abode") would function:
One building in the Bazaar, possibly the one near the token trader, is enterable. When you step inside, you are in a large room with 4 terminals. Each one would be used to auction a different type of loot. There would be a "Armor/Shield" terminal, "Weapons", "Materials", and "Usable".
When you interact the terminals, an interface appears.
BUYING ITEMS:
At the top of the interface (or anywhere it'd be most convenient) there are 5 tabs. One for each star ranking, 1 through 5. Clicking them would show the goods currently being auctioned with that rank. Find the item you desire (if it's there!) and click it. You'd then be taken to another interface, which shows everyone's bids on the item, the highest, and possibly a chatroom. You'd enter your bid, and from that point on, you have the option to raise or drop it if neccesary. The crowns you bid is instantly out of your pocket, but if you lose, every crown you had bid would go right back to you. if you won, of course, your crowns went to the auctioneer, but you get a shiny new item. (*Legend of zelda item fanfare plays*)
SELLING ITEMS:
There would be a 6th tab or button (Like I said, whatever is easiest) saying "Sell". It'd open up an interface where you choose an item(s) from your inventory (if you place, say, a Spur into the shield/armor terminal, it won't accept it and give you a message saying you're putting it in the incorrect
terminal) and place them into one of nine slots (So you could, for example, sell more than one variety of shard at one.) And then, you set a starting price (You don't actually have to pay what you set as the starting price). Beware, if you set the starting price too steep, no one will try to beat, and if you set it too low, people will only top it by 1 crown and you get no profit!
Fnally, you have to select how long your auctioning will last. The longer you want your auction to be, the more crowns you'll need to pay.
After these simple steps, the bidding begins!
(Note: When something is put in a auction slot, you can't get it back unless there are no bids.)
IN CASE OF NO BID
If nobody bids on your item, it goes right back to you. However, the crowns you paid for duration will not be refunded.
First post, lets make it a big one 0_0 (TLDR at the bottom).
I agree that something needs to be done with regards to buying and selling of things. I have a few ideas, none of which I've put too much thought into so please go easy:
* 'Vendor Auction Tab' Use the current vendors but with another tab for 'auctions'. Someone else mentioned this I think and I thought it sounded good. A nice alternative to a dedicated AuctionBot.
The 'auction' tab would have a list of the item qualities (0* - 5*) and these would have sub-menus showing the available items. Each item would only be shown once with a number next to it showing how many are available to buy. The Buyer clicks the item they wish to buy, then enters however many they want and the vendor gives them the price based on the cheapest auctions available. For Example; if Player A lists 16 Swordstone for 1000 crowns each and then Player B lists 3 Swordstones for 990 crowns each, when Player C tries to buy 6 Swordstone they will be told the price is 5970 crowns (3x990 + 3x1000).
When selling, the seller would see the cheapest available price for 1 of the item and will be charged a deposit (set amount dependant on quality of item) which would be refunded on completion of successful sale after which a small % cut of profit will be taken instead.
Have a maximum quantity that is able to be sold, so that the market is less susceptible to being flooded or camped by undercutters. It could be that the maximum quantity you can sell of one item is the same as the max number needed for whatever recipe requires the most of that item. For Example; if Imba-Sword requires the most Swordstones at 16 needed, then 16 is the maximum number of Swordstones any one person can have for sale at a time. It could be one stack of 16 or two stacks of 8 at different prices or 16 stacks of one, whatever!
There could also be an option to instantly sell your mats to the vendor for a lower % of the average market price for that material (maybe using data from the last seven days or some other method to prevent abuse [someone posting an item that has no representation at a zillion dollars and then selling a second one to the vendor straight away for half a zillion]). I'm not sure how this would affect the market prices in the long run but it would mean less mats sitting in inventories as some people will prefer the quick, guaranteed sale with no list fee, despite the lower payout.
* 'Notice Board' - somewhere people can request things that they want to buy. It could be a specific item with certain UV stats (I've only been playing a few days so don't know if things like this are commonly desired) or a 'shopping list' of mats wanted.
Sellers could fulfil requests by responding to the add with an 'Instant C.O.D Mail' type option which auto removes the ad. Alternatively there could be some kind of 'respond' option to send a free mail to the buyer (if they're offline, could be a whisper if they're online) so that players can try and strike a bargain with them. Maybe they have a slightly more/less desireable item to offer that they think the other player would be interested in, or they know someone who can craft it for a reasonable fee.
As mentioned, players could also post a 'shopping list' of mats that they want with a price they're willing to pay for completion of the list. This could be in crowns or energy or both. Potentially the 'shopping list' could also be broken down into what the buyer would be willing to pay for each material so that multiple players could help complete the order. Or if it were the case that the list was broken down, the game could fulfil parts of the order as and when other players put items up for sale at the 'vendor auction tab' for the same/lower price than the buyer is willing to pay.
There could also be an npc that does similar requests on a daily/weekly basis, possibly providing players extra incentive to go into parts of The Clockworks that they might not normally visit to get the materials. There could be a reward for completing RequestBot's list. This could also serve as a mat dump for some but would also encourage player interaction via trade as players try to complete the list before the next one becomes available.
I'm not sure how best to address the issue of crowns/energy as currency. I imagine that when selling to a vendor or completing any npc requests it would be in OOO's best interests to make payments in crowns as they don't want to be giving away too much energy for free (giving away crowns is essentially the same but payouts would be lower than if players traded with each other, encouraging player interaction). But when someone posts a 'shopping list' they could put an amount of energy they're willing to pay instead.
With this method of selling mats via a 'vendor auction tab' I thought it best to stick to crowns. The seller can always trade these for energy if they want. Also, there could be some confusion with people valuing energy differenly when setting their prices, causing the system to fall apart when working out the cheapest mats from multiple sellers.
TLDR:
* Auction tab at each vendor; max no of auctions per item; when buying, buyer enters amount wanted and game gives them prices for the cheapest auctions available (example above); instant sale to vendor for a % of average auction price.
* Notice Board - players can post 'shopping lists' for others to complete (potential for an npc that does this once a day/week, see above)
I really don't know how viable these ideas are I just wanted to get them out there in case it triggers better ideas. Please don't hurt me!
I agree that there needs to be a market place interface.
Everybody's ideas are perfect.
~Some essentials for an Auction House regardless of what it looks like~
- search engine; a field to search for items by name
- An option to view all items by price -lowest to highest, or highest to lowest, most popular, or by Star level, or alphabetically, or in combination of these at the same time (lowest to highest price by Star Level)
:: Some extra ideas that come to mind are ::
I think it would be awesome to have to pay crowns/per month to own a market license, which provides an in game shop/profile in the Auction house; where you can have your Shop name, and small info line to the left of your item up for sale.
So as your shopping for an item in the Auction Market Page, scrolling through the list of random items, each item shows what Player is selling that item(their username), underneath username a shop discription.
You can of course click on a "Buy" button, or you can also view the seller's shop page to view the rest of the items for sale by that player.
~ Each Market License expires in 30 days ~
- 500C 20ce: Market License giving you 4 item slots to post in the Auction house; regardless of quantity per slot.
- 1500C 20ce: Market License giving you 8 item slots to post in the Auction house; regardless of quantity per slot.
- 3500C 20ce: Market License giving you 16 item slots to post in the Auction house; regardless of quantity per slot.
*there would be a 2% trading fee, similar to energy
* everybody can still trade freely outside of the Auction House, so guild members and friends can still help each other out without requiring a Market License, or to trade a mat for another mat(no money exchanged).
Yes, Please omgggg auction house +1 all the way :D
+1 for the auction house, or any sort of shop system (I liked the one in Ragnarok Online tbh)
Well we're making progress. Though looks like the other idea gets implemented first, there WILL be a trade channel. Sure we still want auction house but its a start
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/3927#comment-21027
ITS A VERY BAD IDEA! From my 5 days of experience I have noticed that it is much better to do the ye' old traditional trading of things. Yeah, you may have loads of yellow shards and you have a rough time selling them. But as time goes by the "common" matz will become rare and start to raise the price! Plus the advantage of no auction house is that you could sell things whatever price you want to sell your item for!
What I am afraid if we do have an auction house, the value of items might will go down significantly and I can't buy any more CE with crowns anymore! For example, I sometimes persuade my customer to pay me 500c for a yellow shard (and a free oven mit if they call within 5 minutes!) than another person who is selling there's for 100c!