Spiral Knights - How Can the Knights of Cradle Stop The Rise of CE Prices!?

How Can the Knights of Cradle Stop The Rise of CE Prices!?

47 replies [Last post]

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:35

Koi-Wa-Sensou

Today, many Knights, such as Zephyrel, myself, Fuggles, Isestorm, Countvivi, and many others met in the Haven 1 Garden to debate the rising costs of CE. Although we have acknowledged that the prices of the past, such as the 7-8k period, caused little complaint, Zephyrel decided to raise concerns. This is my own individual opinion, but I also believe that, for the good of the lower-level and Common knight, CE prices should be lowered.

Here are some of our suggestions:
-Boycott CE, thus inducing a price change
-Boycott CE whilst waiting for a change in price, be it positive or negative, and take further action at that time
-Do not buy CE at all
-Buy CE only from guildmates, and/or friends, and/or Haven Dealers
-Buy more CE and sell less CE
-Mass-rush the market with low-priced CE (personally I do not recommend this tactic due to the possibility that all low-priced CE will be snapped up before returning to mainstream pricing, and possibly higher prices)

Our last idea is to give the power to the Knights! This is where your help comes in: We are asking all Knights interested in correcting the high-price CE situation to post their names and thoughts in the link below. Please help us make a difference in SK!

~Xairathan

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:36

Koi-Wa-Sensou

Link to Petition

For those interested in signing our petition, here is the link:

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/23022

Please, let your fellow Knights know about this movement! Help CE prices go down and let Knights everywhere craft and adventure in peace!

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:40

Shoebox

Your futile attempts at market control amuse this box.

Someone makes one of these threads every week.

The price of CE stays exactly the same.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:48

Madadder

it wont work nothing will all

it wont work, nothing will, all OOO will do if CE prices go down is bring up a Power Surge Weekend to cause inflation

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:45

Koi-Wa-Sensou

That's true. That's also what the movement hopes does not happen. Would you care to share why you think OOO does this?

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:45

Shrinkshootr

In order for any of this to

In order for any of this to work, you need to reach a majority of the playerbase (1) and also convince them to do as you propose (2).

It is extraordinarily unlikely anyone aside from the devs/GMs will ever accomplish 1, and you most certainly will not accomplish 2.

Your petition is useless, and your efforts will be utterly wasted. Good luck.

Also http://www.nastyhobbit.org/data/media/13/computer-facepalm.jpg if only for the sake of mentioning it's CE thread #9380956721009831.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 20:59

Echo

Hah.

High lol what is it now 6k? You guys are funny. No offense or anything. The CE prices are player decided, sooo there's nothing much you can do it's a free system.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:05

Bigfootm

What Dark Ritual?

You're gonna need a lot of CE, but I know how to lower it.

On the market, put up a lot of offers for 6.4k. Then 6.3k. Then 6k. Then start going down. Other players and your friends can then try to top that offer, lowering the prices down.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 22:31

Dirt

Legacy Username

They aren't the Knights of

They aren't the Knights of Cradle, just the Knights on Cradle.

Your ideas are also terrible. They were mostly all tried at LEAST once before, some by more notable players than yourself, and have all failed to produce a successful result for any meaningful amount of time. I'd say good luck, but I don't care what happens one way or another.

~Dirt

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:14

Koi-Wa-Sensou

Thank you for the idea. I'll suggest it to the others.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:15

#10

Madadder

dirt seems the only one here

dirt seems the only one here with any sense here... this is all an exercise in futility.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:17

#11

Koi-Wa-Sensou

Trying

It never killed anybody on SK to try, did it?

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:28

#12

Shrinkshootr

You don't seem to know what

You don't seem to know what "exercise in futility" means.

Every time you turn on your computer I want you to stop and draw circles on a piece of paper for one hour while singing "Mary had a little lamb." It's not going to kill you, right? So why aren't you going to do it? It's a waste of time and resources (in this case pencil and paper and energy spent singing). Don't ever try using that as some kind of argument for actually doing something, it's a logic failure.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:30

#13

AlfaOmega1

Legacy Username

I concur!....?

Yes, I, too, want to help with this initiative! I want to be part of the solution and not the problem!

The way I am willing to help with this cause is buying your ce at 5.2kcr. Please feel free to send a me /tell in game as I really only need about 2000 to craft my gear. I feel this will greatly help with the rising prices!!

/satire

Really guys? I'll take a stab at predicting a conversation about this -

"hey, ce are prices are rising, we need to do something!"
-- "I know! we can boycott them until they are lowered by OOO"
"Best idea ever! let's do it.................So, wanna loop some arenas?"
--- "Sure, let me invite the rest of the guild"

See what I did there?

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:31

#14

Koi-Wa-Sensou

Interesting

Interesting. Someone else actually uses the rhetoric in their argument. You and I must debate sometime.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 21:46

#15

Ailea

Then stop buying it. A drug

Then stop buying it.

A drug addict complaining to his dealers that he has to pay more for his drugs is still a drug addict.

Mon, 08/29/2011 - 23:38

#16

Wotwotwotwotwotwot

Here you go. Figured it was

Here you go. Figured it was fair.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/23022#comment-133100

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 01:34

#17

Ken-Shiro

Think of dungeon runs as your

Think of dungeon runs as your fixed wages and whatever mats you find is your profit, and the changing depths with arenas may net you maybe 1500-2000k more on a good day, I don't know. Some people still want to play Snorborlax and get Frumious Fangs instead of paying for it to get the equipment too, so that's like around 3500 crowns. Think of T1 runs at the current market energy rate, and it's never going to go down. Think of the haters that found out how to make money before everyone else, not sharing secrets etc, that think that prices are fine(even if lower prices are still a benefit to them; not just poor people; so I'm guessing these guys are the buyers of ce packs), making a lot of crowns and just dropping and flooding them in the market.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 00:00

#18

Carabin

Legacy Username

Any mass action large enough to swing the market will inevitably cost those who cooperate, and benefit those who defect. If you refuse to buy CE above a certain price, you create a price ceiling, which means a shortage -- and your members won't be able to buy the CE they need to craft or venture. That kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Selling a ton of CE at once could in theory crash the market. But in order for it to last longer than you're selling for, the action needs to be swift enough that others join in and sell their CE in exchange for more stable crowns. Do you really think people are going to do that, when CE is so strong a currency in this game? If you can't get others to panic and sell, they will instead buy, and your members will be stuck buying CE for more than they sold it for.

Good luck, and please tell me when you plan to do this, so I can be ready to profit off of your actions.

Educate yourself, and embrace the role of price taker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_ceiling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 01:25

#19

Stomponadon

Legacy Username

QQ less

Thanks to craft alts and the auction house a new player can get to 3* without a drop of CE.

With 3* you should have no trouble making at least 12k crowns per T2 run.

If you want to play hardcore, harden up. If you want to play casual, use your mist.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 10:38

#20

Gwenyvier

Ahhhh, another one of these

Ahhhh, another one of these huh? Alrighty then, lets give it another go.

These little petitions... they NEVER work. For a lot of reasons but mostly because the people hosting them will never get enough people to play along with it. CE in this game is like gas in real life. You want to do anything past the middle of Tier 2 then you need CE. You want to travel any distance RL you need gas (maybe not you specifically but somebody needs gas or you're hoofing it).

"Here are some of our suggestions:
-Boycott CE, thus inducing a price change
-Boycott CE whilst waiting for a change in price, be it positive or negative, and take further action at that time
-Do not buy CE at all
-Buy CE only from guildmates, and/or friends, and/or Haven Dealers
-Buy more CE and sell less CE"

Idea 1, 2, and 3 (all say do not buy) all directly contradict 4 and 5 (which say buy). I assume 4 is at a better rate then the actual trading price... but again it still contradicts 1-3. If you're going to try to do a mass petition you need to make the means of reaching your goals simple, not "you can do this, or this, or this..." it just causes chaos in the ranks. Kind of like if PETA told its members not to eat meat, or just eat meat on Thursdays, or heck with it, you can eat it every other day... all in the same paragraph.

Again... even if you do get a couple hundred people to go with the idea it still won't work because you need a majority. It is why "national gas out" days never work, you can't get the majority to play along. Making the entire premise useless.

~Gwen

PS:

You abused and enslaved on the Red Queen's court. All of you: Stand up and fight. Raise up against the bloody Red Queen.

Down with the bloody Red Queen!

~Newg

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:57

#21

Naruchico

Ahem

Well let me take away from the first line there "you either pay gas or your hoofing it".... I've never had to wait 22 hours to "hoof it" so if "hoofing it" was and option in this game, I'll take it!

I walk everywhere anyways, but with the way energy works in this game its pretty much "WAIT!, you need to buy CE- Insert Cash or Crowns Here"..."oh crap, whelp you don't have either, please log off till tommorow KTHXBAI!"

I would "hoof it" all day long to earn CE rather than WAIT all day long to earn CE, or pay real money....so lets see, its not free-to-play, its Free-To-Wait

so its not like Petrol (we don't drive with gasoline you know....)

the option to hoof it is not there, its more like this, we can either driver ourselves(real money) or we can wait at the bus stop because someone else paid for the gas (CE Market)

there is no "Hoofing it" option....when there is, then I'll actually be pleased.

Edit- Another rough analogy

Say walking was illegal, but they gave you 100 meters of free fuel a weekday, its 50 meters to work to earn money to get more fuel, but here is the lovely kicker, you have to drive home, and we'll assume fuel prices are 10 dollars a meter, you make 10 dollars an hour and work 8 hours a day, it'll take you 2 days to go shopping, or go out anywhere, and then of course how much else could you buy aside from food, or fuel?

that analogy is exactly what SK is....now please tell me you don't see how screwed up that is?

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:46

#22

Sulfr

actualy bigfootm has the

actualy bigfootm has the right idea,we can still buy CE from OOO,juast sell more then you buy.in other words,you need to start a pettition to get people to stop playing the CE market (buying cheap selling high).if players buy as they need CE and sell when they NEED crowns,the prices will go down.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:50

#23

Sunless

you need to start a pettition

you need to start a pettition to get people to stop playing the CE market (buying cheap selling high)

Amazing. Just... I have no words.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 12:59

#24

Kazham

As I said before

I've said this in a different, yet similar, post It's all about supply and demand. The prices will continue to raise as long as people are purchasing it. Now, it will get too high for people to buy. It will lose it's demand! Once it's lost, the prices will drop back to a reasonable price, people will buy again, and all will be dandy. Now of course, that is until another Power Surge comes along. In which then the demand will been high, the prices will rise, and this will restart. It's an infinite circle, which requires only patients! :)

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:03

#25

evanct

Legacy Username

Economics 101: the market is

Economics 101: the market is a force of nature. If you try to control it you will fail.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:08

#26

Naruchico

kaza

on the topic of power surges I have noticed they do it about the same time for the past 2 months at about mid-month so if the prices don't drop by much in the next 2 weeks, expect that "patients" to pretty much be null and void, and from what I have heard from players who have played since beta, they haven't seen prices so stably rising ever, so expect 10kcr by the end of September unless OOO steps in and does something drastic.

at-least that's my 2 cents on it

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:22

#27

insanephoton

Legacy Username

error, error , does not compute

Some people seem to think that all p2p players are pumping in real life cash just to sit there going' muwhahaha now I'm a crown millionaire/billionaire/trillionaire' . Maybe there are some individuals doing that... you can never discount extreme behaviour entirely, but for the most part people play the market to build up a healthy fund so that the next time Basil has that recipe you want, or that nice shiny item appears in the AH you can buy it easily.

Maybe we need to start a petition to get people to stop posting energy threads?

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:27

#28

Velcro

@Naruchico:

Just because something is increasing so rapidly right now doesn't mean it will increase rapidly in the future. Trying to extrapolate data into the future is a fairly sketchy thing unless you actually know the mechanism controlling that thing AND can describe/model it.

Your statement that the raising rates now mean that prices will reach 10k cr by the end of September is exactly the same as me saying that because temperatures increase from Spring to Summer then by Winter, because the temperatures are raising currently and thus MUST continue in the future obviously, that we'll all be fried and our plants will be bursting into flames.

Uh-oh guys! It's the end of the world, it won't be a white Christmas this year, linear extrapolation is law this year and it'll be hell on Earth come Christmas!

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 13:43

#29

Naruchico

I'm just stating

I was just stating that its got 2 weeks before surge hits, and if the prices don't go down before then, we could easily be looking at 10kcr and fast, not that its linear extrapolation. (and to narrow down your lovely heat pun, that's because we know we move away from the sun, unfortunately there isn't any sun to move away from in the CE market ATM)

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 14:11

#30

Velcro

We know that we won't burn

We know that we won't burn alive because we know how our solar system works and why it works and thus can predict where we'll be come Christmas.

We don't understand the markets of this game much beyond acknowledging it's player driven and deriving some rules from basic economics. So we have no way of knowing what will happen to the markets much better a few days at best, and even that's fairly sketchy.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:21

#31

Kazham

I liek green eggs and HAM, so what? :)

One, Power Surge is not a conspiracy, anyone who believes so should just GTFO. :)
Secondly, his heat thing was pretty much dead on. 10k is not affordable, and people can not sell what we do not buy. Once we stop earning a profit from buying CE, we will stop buying it, it will fall. Exactly as I just said.

Let's think of CE as a T-Shirt

CE is sold three ways, real money, dealers in haven, or the market system.
Let us assume the market system is online shopping, haven dealers are real stores, and real money is renting a factory for the weekend.

The online store is selling T-Shirts for 40$ a shirt, at an uptrend price, where-as the retail store is selling it for 10$ staying the same. What happens? People stop shopping online, and buy at the store. Well, the online store has a risk of loosing it's initial profit from renting the factory for the weekend. What must it do? Lower prices! Bam! People are shopping there again! When it gets to high, people wont buy. Plain and simple. 6-7k is currently NOT too high.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:44

#32

kru

Legacy Username

the prices will go up as long

the prices will go up as long as there is a quick profit to gain from the market. Today I saw the lowest price for 100ce was 6750 after deducting the 2% you still have 100cefor 6615 cr and guess what was the HIGHEST offer in cr for 100 ce ? 6500 cr. You see it ? A quick profit with no effort. However you are still wondering how it happens and will it change :| no it won't, ppl are greedy by nature now only the devs have the power to change it somehow.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:46

#33

Kazham

Did you not read the other posts?

The Devs do NOT have the power to change it. The economy is based off of the player base, is and always will be. Spiral Knights makes money no matter the price, if it's low people have to sell more to make more money (More CE sales), if High they sell more because people don't want to pay the CE prices. They gain both ways, this is not related to them, they have no power over it. It is players, always and forever. If target sells T-Shirts to high, will the government jump in and say "Woah woah woah, someone emailed us saying you were selling this to high, so we're going to lower it!". No, they don't. They have no hand in this.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 15:54

#34

kru

Legacy Username

By changing I meant giving us

By changing I meant giving us something to waste our cr/ce like they did with uvs however it failed because ppl came to conclusion 3 uvs are a waste of money.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:16

#35

Carabin

Legacy Username

@kru
>>Today I saw the lowest price for 100ce was 6750 after deducting the 2% you still have 100cefor 6615 cr and guess what was the HIGHEST offer in cr for 100 ce ? 6500 cr. You see it ? A quick profit with no effort.

So you buy 100ce for 6750 and turn around and sell it for 6500 minus 2% and earn...hang on, let me grab my calculator...

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 16:50

#36

kru

Legacy Username

@Carabin So you buy 100ce for

@Carabin
So you buy 100ce for 6750 and turn around and sell it for 6500 minus 2% and earn...hang on, let me grab my calculator...

you buy it for 6500
sell for 6750
??????
PROFIT

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 18:38

#37

bananafish28

Legacy Username

carabin and kru

1st offer refers to SELLING price; bid refers to the BUY price.

a profitable spread doesn't cause prices to rise. lol- you don't think it existed at lower levels?

the two of you are now on the low CE price hit list; bc by educating other players you've now potentially cause a rise in CE Prices. lol- how so? you need to have CE and Cr to take advantage of inefficiencies in the market; this means that more players will hold CE on reserve instead of spending it immediately. that takes CE out of the supply circulation.

why haven't the CE complainers taken advantage of this although on previous threads they have acknowledged this phenomenon? because they don't want to work within the game; they just want to hack and slash. dealing with the economics of the game to them, isn't 'playing' the game so they don't want to do it.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 18:52

#38

Cleverpun

Legacy Username

Aren't boycotting CE and not

Aren't boycotting CE and not buying it the same thing? /shrug

An inherent issue with supply and demand won't be fixed by a petition- The CE prices are player decided, and if you're expecting price controls or somesuch, I can assure you that those are the worst things you can do to a free market.

If you want to do something useful then you need to do one of the following;

1) Inject more CE into the market (those free CE giveaways are a bandaid solution of this type)

2) Remove crowns from the market (UV tickets dropped the CE price because they did this)

I'm not happy about CE prices either, but I understand why they are the way they are. Hopefully Lockdown will be the PvP we saw in the preview event, and it will cost a lot of crowns for a full 5* equipment match.

I admire your enthusiasm but not your recklessness

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 19:05

#39

Shrinkshootr

CE Prices is the hardest boss

CE Prices is the hardest boss in the game. Only by gathering together the Shards of Power and forming the fabled Excalibur, legendary weapon of lore, can we unite in an effort to take down this nefarious force of pure, raw evil!

Who's with me?!

*charges off*

BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 19:35

#40

StVier

Legacy Username

Education is better than calling for mass action?

As we all know, the increase in price of CE is tied to the demand for it. Obviously there is a need for large amounts of CE for crafting high-level equipments but I'm quite sure that a fair share of players (especially beginners?) have been using CE for doing runs or even revives.

The demand for CE for use in crafting is very much a constant because everyone wants better equipments. However I believe that the use of CE for revive or extended runs could be minimized somewhat by properly 'educating' the players? Trying to get players into a boycott action (including not buying CE for playtime) is kinda hard to appeal to people who wants to play.

I refer to the following post about playtime from 100 Mist Energy.

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/13024

I seriously have no idea how long people play Spiral Knights at any one sitting but the 100 free ME everyday is sufficient to play for an hour for the lower tier, and longer for the higher tiers. The time is somewhat linked to experience of the player and partially linked to the gear that the player has because someone decked out in all 5-star equipments is going to have an easier (and faster time) breezing thru Tier-1, despite the scaling of equipments stats to the Tier. Therefore, beginners who are in their lower-end equipments should be able to maximize the 100 ME into longer playtime + progression thru the whole Tier if they do not die and revive using energy.

Hence I feel the call for action should focus more on getting players to be competent and maximize crowns earnings per energy usage such that they can at least be self-sufficient should they want to extend their playtime with CE. The ability to earn enough crowns to buy 100 CE has previously been emphasized by so many veterans but unless the message reaches out to the masses of new players, the demand for CE by said masses will way exceed the demand for CE in crafting. New players will just accept any current price of CE as the norm, whereas old players will note that it's getting higher, but ultimately it's all those who are unable to be self-sufficient will be complaining that it's high if they can't get the crowns equivalent during their runs.

Tue, 08/30/2011 - 19:39

#41

Wfawwer

I don't think we have seen

I don't think we have seen the breaking point in the market where CE becomes too expensive to buy, and sellers begin to lower their prices. All we have seen is a steady tick upward. I say calm down and give the market sometime to see where it settles down- We don't know what happens.

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 15:46

#42

Bumbling

-Do not buy CE at all-Buy

-Do not buy CE at all
-Buy more CE and sell less CE

You know that one of these things is going to accomplish the exact opposite of what you want, right?

@wfawwer (and others, probably): What do you think the average price of CE is? I started playing about a month ago, during the Power Surge weekend. At that point prices were 5.3k - 5.5k and I've only seen them go up from that point on. And for someone who only has a very small frame of reference as far as CE prices go, I would like to know what's considered a normal price.

Fri, 09/02/2011 - 15:52

#43

Wfawwer

I do not know what the

I do not know what the average price of CE is. All I am saying is that eventually there will be a price ceiling where most people stop buying (say, 10k
). Right now it seems balanced around 6.5k crowns. (I pray that we don't have another power surge weekend)

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 07:12

#44

Orangeo

Monkeyman; " OOO will do if

Monkeyman; " OOO will do if CE prices go down is bring up a Power Surge Weekend to cause inflation"

I reeealy don't think three rings used the surge to bring up CE, and if they did, calling them out on it won't make them nicer. Though I do think it's fair to say the lottery sucked. I think they thought the lotto would even it so they decided to have it swich from surge to lotto each weekend. Of course, that really didn't work...

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 19:41

#45

Soulstaker

It's time for making ce

It's time for making ce prices 4k again.Good way is boy cotting and buy ce a lot from have dealers but does not sell in market.That's one of best ways you have.

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:09

#46

Afoxi

Legacy Username

I have 1,000 buy orders for

I have 1,000 buy orders for CE at 5k crowns.

Good luck, and may your efforts bring me more crowns. ;)

Sat, 09/03/2011 - 21:50

#47

Lemon-Neko

hmmm.....

The price ceiling should be just under the total amount of crowns a player can earn using 100 energy in any stratum. You just have to think about it. O root for that petition so I can scoop up some cheap ce, that's all.

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How Can the Knights of Cradle Stop The Rise of CE Prices!?