Agreed, God-King. I am aware he isn't talking about gunners btw, swordsman can use different armor, it is a skill+no lag > gear game.

Please guys, go ask Bopp, not this idiot.

This Guide is...

"I personally think it is the wrong one."

That is your opinion, but like I said. "I don't need the maxed out stats to be good." Of course don't read this as me being hateful at all. Far from it, you have your opinion, I have mine, nothing outside of our own decisions will break our stride. We're both still swordmasters with different playstyles.

"you are simpley wasting time. Trust me on this one."

I don't. I didn't mention though that all my CTR UV's are on my brandish weapons. I can clear groups pretty damn fast with a Glacius charge followed up with another one. Unless say Glacius doesn't work and I have to use a different status, I just group em up and follow up again. I don't see it as a waste of time.

i don't wear the wolver line in fsc mainly,i love my fallen armor. as for the weakness against trojans,i like the challenge. as soon as i got both of my ctr med trinkets for swords i always go in now spamming my voltedge's charge attack and clear out rooms pretty damn fast.

I've never owned a single piece of any wolver line armor.

@ Kreuz
Still against the point. I didn't say they were the same, but you cannot deny some similarities that may cause a similar set up and tactic use.

The point is that you were comparing an apple to an orange. I was just saying that arenas are different than FSC, in a sense that they are random and feature more faster enemies.

Im gonna have to explain a few things to you.
1) The profit from fsc is greater than the cost to buy ce, therefore you can do infinite FSC runs and never urn of of energy. e.g. 100 ce = 6.7kcr total cr from an fsc is something like 9k + mats + almirian seal (30 of which = 30kcr if u vendor items). The fact you use only mist is quite fankly stupid.
2) If you are dieing easily thne this guide may not be for you, as I said, this is a more 'advanced' guide shall we say.
3) You reeeeealy should not be ce reving. I have not personally done one of these for.... well I can't even rememer doing one.
4) My advice to you would be improve your skills, learn your enemy, and come back to thid guige.

1. I'm well aware that FSC gives plenty of money(Like around 10k, maybe a little more or less.). Heck, I'm also well aware that I could play infinitely, if i really wanted too.Thing is, that's boring and screws up other players. If I'm treating the game as tedious grinding, then whats the point in playing infinitely? It's not fun. "Using only mist is stupid"? How so? It's free. And it helps keep the market down for others as well as myself. Not to mention the regen rates matches perfectly with my schedule.(Also ties in to the fact that playing the game constantly gets quite old, especially with the same level. With mist, I can't play the dungeons constantly and that's actually a good thing for me.) I guess I'm just more patient than others. Currently I don't plan to sell any of the vana awards just yet, simply I would like to own one of each them. I'm collector, so as of now vendoring Vana awards is not going to happen anytime soon.

2. Are you assuming I die a lot? It's rude to assume. I just like being more careful just in case I do derp, connection was lost for a sec, or get lagged. Making sure I lessen the burden for my team. I admit, I'm far from the best, but I don't die that easily. Why take unnecessary risks?

3. Eh, depends on the situation. I RARELY ce rev. It would either have to be a boss or Shadow Lair. I mean, you got this far, why go back empty handed? When I say energy rev, I meant in just using my mist(Within reason of course.), so sorry for the confusion there. And that's cool that you didn't spend any revs.

4. So you did assume I was dying a lot. Cause that's awfully rude. I may not have played the game as long as you have, but that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing.

i disagree, infact a very highly respected player (exileddread) and many more agree.
After playing a game enough, you know if things are good or not. Common sense applies that if you are attacking more often and hitting more enemies at once, thne it will be faster. I could whip out some equations but you don't really care.
I quite clearly said "I can’t make you play this way, and I know many players who refuse to accept this play style, but at least I can say I tried." in the intro. So... yeh.

You also said:
-"That is your choice and I personally think it is the wrong one."

-"With my usual set up I have max dmg, vh asi, ultra ctr. I believe a charge attack should be used as the first attack, it does good aoe dmg and can apply a status effect increasing the DOT, but it should generally be followed by auto attacks otherwise you are simpley wasting time. Trust me on this one."

-"@God-King
Your loss"

-"The fact you use only mist is quite fankly stupid."

-"Honestly, anything except the wolver line is downright stupid. Anyone who passes up on VH ASI/DMG for their sword should be shot."

How is this not thrusting down your opinions down everyone's throats? Did you have to say the above like that? You couldn't simply ignore it, or just be more accepting? Why be so narrow-minded?

Oh, you're not even going to try? You assume(again) that I don't care? Don't you think it's hypocritical of yourself to say, "Pics or didn't happen" to Ironskullkid and yet you're not going to show me evidence?

I see a lot more disagreements on this thread than agreements. And the agreements mentioned how you should probably rewrite your post, so that it doesn't come off as being some elitist who acts like he/she knows everything.

Oh I got a fair idea on what's good, not getting hit is good. Avoiding unnecessary risks is good for me, and I don't mind that it takes a little longer. Neither do my friends.(I obviously don't dragged it out, but I'm still careful to the best of my abilities.) Like I mentioned before, I have no problem with your preference. I have a problem with your narrow-mindedness and your atitude over it.

Again, take bopp's advice. You'll be look at better. Changing the title to "Guide to Doing Vana Speed Runs for Swords Masters"(Or something I dunno) would probably help a lot too to repel players like me, who only care about doing Vana with as little deaths as possible, rather than for speed runners who throw caution to the wind.

@Ironskullkid

And if it did, you just lost the Game

/shout I lost the game!
/me punches pillow.

"-Do you really want me to give you an equation showing my play style is better than yours? Or are you smart enough to apply common sense and just admit that i am right?
-Ironskullkid is just some troll kid, there is no point bringing him up or any related events."

1. Me saying that I Soloed RJP w Non-UV'd Proto Gear w/o getting Hit was a Sarcastic Remark, in response that you said you claimed to have Completed FSC more than a Thousand Times. In Short Term, I was LYING . You, however, haven't shown any Evidence, even after you Claimed to do it.

2. Everyone has a Different Play-Style. Some of us want to be Different. Not everyone wants to be the same, Boring Wolver Clone. Some of us want to see stuff go Boom & others want to hear those Metal Pills drop to the Ground.

3. Not everything has to be a Race. Why can't people like you get that through your Thick Head? Rush it, & you're going to Fail. Take it Nice & Slow & you'll be Successful.

4. Forcing everyone to try YOUR Play-Style isn't much of a Guide. It just seems like a way to Convert everyone to being what you want, like a Religion.

5. Saying you're Right all the time & Everyone else who Disagrees with you is Wrong makes me think you're just an Arrogant Prick .

6. You need to Learn how to Break Up Walls of Text.

Oh, & also. If you're just going to say "I'm not going to Listen to some Kid Troll who uses Pictures just because he's Easily Amused," then you, Sir, have no Humor.

Guys, calm down. A guide is a written walkthrough based on the writer's experience. There's no possible way to write a guide that isn't an opinion unless you say stuff like "Alright, now after you've cleared 6 rooms, bring the sprites to the fountain that's located in the center of the depth. Water should pop up."

From what I've read, this is a guide based on Strudul's own experience with FSC. If you don't want to follow it, then that's fine. No reason to start a mass flame war.

Hmmm.....
*inserts Bopp's posts here*
@Exileddread
Well, what about guides that describe equipment, levels, etc.(mainly fact-centered guides)? Easier to avoid bias with those, and even better if you describe the pros and cons of each tactic/equipment/approach. I'd have to agree though, that sometimes it can be hard to avoid bias in guides.
I think the reason for the flame war-actually, never mind, Bopp's posts kinda summed everything up that I wanted to add, with one exception.
Strudul, forgot to clarify on what I meant by defensive play there, I was referring to things like kiting, bumping, using knockback, dodging, etc.

"From what I've read, this is a guide based on Strudul's own experience with FSC. If you don't want to follow it, then that's fine. No reason to start a mass flame war."

War=death.

Strudul said that any swordsman not in wolver deserves to be shot.

It's kind of ironic that you said flame war. It's safe to say that he brought it upon himself.

"The point of the guide is to persuade others to do what you do, because the writer finds it easier to get it done that way. If a guide's good and popular enough, it becomes the premises of what to do."'

Yes, it seems like that is what Strudul is being persistent about, but if I do not follow anyone's own opinion please don't shoot me.

Oh wait.

Once again, you have much better choices than this guide out there. For your own sake, I would suggest asking your questions in the arsenal forums.

It isn't just that one line, if you read most of his responses to people it is very elitist-or-die.

What he should say instead of shooting people: "wolver is best."

Rangerwill's "Wolver is best if not wolver then that is foolish." is still attacking other people who aren't elitist.

Strudul and Rangerwill's version of "wolver is best" are both not the greatest to be put into a guide.

For what it's worth, I kind of agree with Exileddread, that people are focusing on a couple of offensive lines while ignoring the big picture. When I take Strudul's guide literally, I disagree with it. But when I give it the benefit of the doubt, I think it's basically right and useful. Strudul seems to know what he's talking about. He needs to finish it with information about specific levels, and polish it to maximize the value per minute-of-reading, and remove some attitude. Cheers, everybody.

Strudul, your guide is awesome! I have almost the exact same playstyle, and I can attest to it working very well. If every SWORDSMAN followed it, PUG FSC runs would actually be worth doing.

And to comment on the wolver line sentence; it's harsh but it's the truth. There really isn't any other comparable armor line option FOR A SWORDSMAN. But it seems like some people are on a witchhunt for wolver-users, IMO the people who outright hate the wolver lines are more biased than the people praising it.

*reads entire thread*

...

Ooooookay, guess I'm not going FSC for anything now!

*leaves thread*

I, and probably Strudul as well, am fully aware that people make other armor choices for different reasons, like wearing Chaos set for the extra challenge. But this guide focuses on being as effective as you can be, and choosing something other than wolver is in that regard a bad choice.

"This game is a no lag + skill > gear game anyway"

Yes, but gear is still part of the equation. This goes back to the 2nd sentence of my first paragraph.

So, since Strudul is a friend of mine that I've done many FSC runs with, I will vouch for him (for what it's worth) that he completely has the experience necessary to be an expert as a swordie. Also, Tom-Awsm a couple of posts up is one of the great ones at FSC and I completely agree with his entire post...people who hate on Vog just because it's "conformist" are missing the big picture, it IS the best armor for swordies, all around.
A lot of players have never had the chance to play with the truly elite in this game as the elite do not do random groups and it's a tough crowd to get into. To be a part of a group that needs not talk but is just firing on all cylinders perfectly is a thing of beauty and something worth striving for in this game. There is a best way to do things in FSC, whether you choose to adopt that play style or not, and I think Strudul got most things right in this guide.
Now, onto my constructive criticism.

- I 90% agree with everything Strudul says for play style and gear selection, though he certainly could have expanded more on key themes (at the risk of getting very wordy) to better support his position. Also, Bopp has a great point. Write to your audience. I think it's fine your taking such a hard stance but you need to connect with those that are in that specific demographic you're trying to hit, if you seem elitist and people dislike that, they will look past all the good in this guide and focus on the bad (apparently by posting pics of memes in every post rather than coming up with original thoughts and ideas). Your guide will be that much better if you clean up the rough edges of tone. For example "Honestly, anything except the wolver line is downright stupid" seems to hit a chord with people. Just explain the facts without passing judgement on others choices. "The wolver line is best because of its desirable buffs for a swordie, specifically ASI and DMG bonus" would be a much more effective wording for a number of factors. You want a great guide that people will appreciate and read, you will need to change these things.

GEAR
- ASI and CTR should be the primary focus, with DMG bonus being great for those that can achieve it without sacrificing the first two.
- The reason ASI is so great, and one that is mainly ignored, is that the animation for the charge attack happens quicker than without. This has two effects; One can do more damage in a given period of time, and it actually makes one's defense better by interrupting enemy attacks and preventing them doing damage to you whatsoever, this lessens the need for a shield. A person skilled with a Levi charge attack effectively makes that their "shield" as monsters can't get close enough to attack. (my style of play)
- CTR is along the sames lines as ASI but just a different mechanic of attack animation. You can achieve more charge attacks per unit of time and increase overall damage output. An yes, charge attacks are typically the most efficient use of your time.
- As for shield selection, yes, BTS and SSB are ideal if you truly are that good and also in that good of a group. This is really not typical, especially of those looking on learn from a guide. As for the best shield for shielding purposes, it is Crest of Almire, hands down. I tend to do pick up groups as it just adds that much more of a challenge and I get oh so much more heat from all the revives, so I tend to go with CoA as shields are necessary to survive the un-orchestrated chaos that come with inexperienced players.
- Vog cub with a shadow UVs are best if you have no ASI UV on your swords, if you do have ASI then pair that with a piece of snarby gear or other shadow defense equipment.
- I mostly agree with your sword selection; Voltedge and Levi or DVS for sure, and a blitz but that 4th slot should either be a Shiver or Fov ideally, depending on group. The reason being that the absolute best runs I've been on where we've taken Vana down in sub 3 minutes has involved (on the 5th phase) 2 people smoking the slags with FoV charge attacks, 1 shivering and the 4th either watering or assisting with slag take-down. Then keep up with the shivermist and 1 plague needle with 2 blitz needles attacking. The shiver is necessary to keep vana in one place and not attacking, thus maximizing the effectiveness of the blitz needle charge attacks. Go ahead and watch the best vana videos and they will provide proof.
- Now, the reason Voltedge is best for zombies is it has elemental damage paired with status effect. Sure, Glacius and Combuster have this too, but the glacius freezes zombies in place rather than pushing them down the charge attack and hitting multiple times and the combuster doesn't have the status after effect. The push also acts as a shield in this instance as it keeps attacking enemies at distance.
- On shivermist, I think it is effective in certain spots where the zombies spawn in groups and the brandish charge attack can wreak havoc. Other than the times it can maximize damage from charge attacks, it should be avoided.
- The other reason heart trinkets are not necessary is that so many hearts are dropped in FSC, health really isn't an issue. If they stopped dropping so many hearts, their desirability would increase exponentially.

COMBAT
- Great explanation of taking down trojans!
- Strudul, you should elaborate on "sense of authority". This is not intuitive for for most players and actually where you tend to come off as elitist (which you are since you've done FSC so many times, so I think it's fine) as your post has a "sense of authority" most do not think you've earned as they haven't done runs with you. Let's face it, gamers are not typically "authoritative" people, break it down to technical terms for your audience (why you've written this guide in the first place). I also think this is the most important point, but it can be double sided as sometimes those who play with authority have no place doing so as they're hurting the team.
- Teamwork should come FIRST as a great team really does outshine the sum off the individual effort.
- I agree, guns are fairly useless except charge attack for blitz on trojans and "shortcuts" with spike wheel thingies.
- Graviton bomb is nice but really does not add to the effectiveness of the fight, if that's your playstyle, fine but it is not IDEAL FOR A SWORDIE (the point of this post, go write your own playstyle post, haters).
- If you can only bring 2 weapons, a Levi and Blitz should truly be it. Levi is so versatile and the charge attack is great for trojans (they dont experience knockback) and the 3 hit charge combo on zombies against walls.

- As a final note, your gear loadout should depend wholly on who you're with, their playstyle and how you can fit into the team as a whole. As long as everyone can contribute to filling the "gaps" then you will be better off.

As A big friend of yours.

I have to say.

That I didn''t know that you were such a writer :P

Nice Guide

~Irev~

Strudul, I see the merit in your counter-arguments and can concede as you have great reasoning. I guess I was coming at this from the perspective of a more typical run, not the ideal run. That video really is amazing. Also, I guess I'm just a better player than you as someone freezing zombies doesn't mess me up :) .

And what can I say, I actually had something to say on the subject at hand and think your guide is a great one, in essence. Sorry for the wall of well spaced text.

Tengu, it's not so much that he's digging himself a deep hole that I'm backing him up, because I really don't think he cares, it's that this guide has great potential but some are getting hung up on the tone of the message, rather than the content.

YES! I agree completely.