@Taliek

That's definitely not true. I mean, listen to politicians! They're willing to debate about the complex, meaningless stuff but won't budge on the ones where they're obviously wrong.

You seem to think that all women feel the same way you do.

Maybe they do. You appear to at least admit that some percentage of them do.

However, with all the crap we brainwash children with, starting from birth, there has always been a clear difference between boys and girls.

Uh, this isn't a good thing. There's no reason that this difference should exist. The "clear difference" you speak of is a societal construct.

Boys are taught to "suck it up". Girls are taught to "empathize".

There's no reason this should be so.

Our brains are so different, it's like comparing black and white. It's both biological, and psychological.

You're so wrong on this it's like you have defined a new level of wrong. Our brains aren't nearly as different as you think. There are barely any physical differences to speak of. The actual physical differences that DO exist are mainly hormones. The rest of it is just what you have been taught by society.

What, are women a completely different species or something?

Speaking of undertones, you seem to be implying that a large portion of men think little of women, or think of them as objects.

They do.

First of all, that is not the case, myself included. I think highly of many women in my life, I respect, and look up to them.

I've not seen proof of this. Everything I have seen you say provides evidence to the contrary.

You however seem to think that due to the fact that you rubbed me the wrong way, I feel the same way about all women I know.

Well, you reacted in a misogynistic manner. You wouldn't have reacted the same way to a man that "rubbed you the wrong way".

Second, if you want to be angry at anyone, be angry at modern media, and how it depicts women in provocative ways, marketed mainly at males. What people are subjected to, they become.

So because there are other problems, this isn't a problem? Also, are you saying that people are incapable of self-reflection and thinking about their own behavior?

If "chick" sounds like a derogatory term, again, my brain is not wired like yours is, so it's difficult to put myself in your shoes.

It's not because your brain isn't "wired like mine". I'm the same species as you. It's because you have privilege. If you were a member of any marginalized group you would be able to understand what's going on here. (I'm making an assumption that you aren't. If you are, then think about how you might feel if someone says something offensive to you and claims that it isn't offensive because everyone uses it and you're making too much of a big deal about it.)

Anyways, I'm not the one who called you a "chick", so while I don't feel the need to apologize, I will avoid using it in every day talk now that I know what some women think of the term.

Yeah, you don't really need to apologize, and that is a very well-reasoned response to learning this. Thanks for actually having the self-awareness and understanding to modify your behavior. It really is a rarity. :)

1.
If the only ones speaking up are asking for a cap, ThreeRings may think that everybody wants a cap. So count me in as somebody who doesn't want a cap.

Several people disagree as to whether or not the economy is currently "working" correctly. It seems most people would agree that the current economy is not stable right now, and that an auction house would be very helpful.

I think The discussion was actually starting to get somewhere after letting go of the idea that we should artificially hold crown-to-CE rates. As many have pointed out, ThreeRings is already artificially holding dollar-to-CE rates. I'd like to be able to pay a one-time fee of $50 (or even a monthly fee) to have unlimited elevator rides.

I like the idea of an auction house. I'd even settle for a system that is similar to how CE is traded (where the cheapest price for a commodity goes first).

I'd like to see some more rewards for gate boosting, too.

This has been a very interesting example of supply and demand in action. So many forces at play to modify both sides of the curve.

2. (This should really be another thread. I know it's just fanning the fires, but it's such an interesting study.)

entitlement is a very major problem but shrug, what can you do
ignorance is a very major problem but shrug, what can you do
privilege is a very major problem but shrug, what can you do
unbreakable cycles of poverty are a very major problem but shrug, what can you do

Wow, what an interesting excuse to do nothing.

What can you do? You can start by trying to understand what it is, and try to understand what the different sides are attempting to say. If do you agree with a side, you can stand up for that side. If new information comes to light and your understanding changes, you can stand up and admit it.

What will you do? is a completely different question.

That said, I also felt the those words "dear, chick, and kid" were used in this thread in a demeaning way. Maybe you didn't mean it that way. But that's how I saw it. Is it just my problem? Perhaps. I think it's a symptom of a larger problem.

Seems to me that "I feel that you are acting childish when you call somebody names" has a different impact than "relax, kid." Or I am just getting too old for this new internet communication thing.

@Dashiva #106

By converting CE into crowns you are literally subsidizing the crown market. You are putting more crowns into the market and (partially) paying for new players or F2P players.

Look again, when you buy Crowns from CE (from the big button on the second tab) you actually buy the same amount of crowns (minus 2% of taxes) from the highest offer under the "buy energy" column in the third tab. That is you are buying Crowns from someone who went before inside the clockworks.

It's written in yellow, right there "current offers are set by the players".

It makes sense if you know how to read.

Oh snap!

I don't think Anisoptera is a woman. Considering 'her' a woman is more demeaning to females than the term 'she' finds so offensive.

Please take a long walk off a short pier.

Also, "females". Are we animals? We have a word for a female human. It's "woman".

Also, I called up my mother, and she had pretty much the same viewpoint on the term "chick" as you. I guess I was generalizing too much based off of what I've experienced lol.

I'm glad you took the time to seek out a bit more information on the subject. I think (and this is just me speculating about society as a whole) that in general you might find that older women are more likely to hold that sort of opinion. I feel like there has been so much demonization of feminism in the last generation that younger women have internalized it and don't even realize what's happening. Look at how many words you used to cushion saying I'm a feminist. Even if you don't think that feminism is horrible, you feel the need to pad the word with so many other words because you have learned that feminism is a terrible thing. (See: feminazi)

In some cases it's been internalized to such a degree that women will actually perpetuate the oppression amongst themselves. The stereotype that women in an office will tend to fight with each other and bring each other down is an example of this. The stereotype has its roots in actual behavior... but the behavior itself is caused by internalized oppression.

Personally, I believe our brains are pretty different. But I'm no expert. xD

You'd be surprised how similar they are. There are differences but they are mostly incidental. The study you referred to could be explained by brain structure differences, or just by how those women learned to think about that sort of problem. Remember that women are taught not to be good at math.

I'm not saying that my theory is right, but there are alternate explanations. :)

If I say something that somebody else thinks is offensive, I try to find out why they thinks it's offensive. If that changes my mind about using the phrase, I'd admit that I made a mistake when used earlier, apologize and move on. If I didn't think it was a mistake, I acknowledge both what I understand about the word, and what I think the other person sees in the word, and move on, if they are the same, move on, we simply disagree.

I guess I don't have any idea whether this is actually a problem or not. For example, you say that there's a possible case where you say something offensive, but then don't apologize because you don't think it was a mistake. ("Not a mistake" could imply that you intended the meaning that they inferred.)

You say you've never had a problem with this. That could just mean that you've always been sensitive in the right scenarios. I'm not discounting that possibility...

But if you think about it, it's extremely likely that no one would tell you they had a problem if they did. You've already offended them once, and when they tried to tell you that it was offensive (which is, itself, generally VERY hard for someone to do, because the reaction is nearly always negative, as seen in exhibit A right here) you "listened" and then told them that you didn't think they had a reason to be offended, and you weren't going to change. Why would they then say, "Hey, I don't think that's right either"? They've already made the effort once and been beaten down about it. It feels terrible to have that happen. They're probably just going to sigh, shrug their shoulders, and feel a little worse that day.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you don't get to decide what's offensive. If something is offensive to someone in a marginalized group, it is your responsibility as the one with the privilege to make the effort to right the wrong. It's not their responsibility to educate you or stand up to you, and if they do, you should understand that they do so at great cost to themselves. Teaching you about this is reminding them of all the oppression they have to face on a daily basis, and they also have to step lightly because at any time you might tell them that they're wrong about their experience and force them to defend themselves.

I'm not saying you're a bad person for this. When you have privilege, it's invisible to you. That's the essence of privilege - you only notice it if you don't have it. If you've never been part of a marginalized group, it's impossible for you to understand what it feels like. The fact that you can't understand exactly what it feels like also doesn't mean you're bad; it just means you need to have the self-awareness to acknowledge what you don't understand and have the compassion to accept that the person in front of you telling them their experience is not doing so out of a desire to make you feel bad but rather because they are trying to explain to you how you hurt them. In that context, can you understand why refusing the apology is a terrible thing to do? You're basically telling the person that their experience is invalid, and their feelings are invalid, and your experience trumps theirs.

Apologizing doesn't mean you're a bad person. Quite the opposite.

"Please take a long walk off a short pier.

Also, "females". Are we animals? We have a word for a female human. It's "woman"."

I believe I already made myself clear that I don't consider you a woman, so I find your sad attempt at a retort quite amusing.

By all means, continue to assume you're something more than a base mammalian life form on the planet we call Earth. "Man" and "Woman" only serve to help idealists differentiate themselves from the rest of the natural world. They are rooted in the blissful ignorance humanity clings to so desperately.

That said, woman or not, I find your attitude reprehensible and your mannerisms abhorrent. Perhaps if you acted like a mature adult, I would treat you like one.

I am not apologizing and that's final.

If you continue to persist then I suggest you get a admin or GM to plea your case to. I find the very idea laughable because I did nothing wrong.

I didn't say anything offensive unlike you, which nice try on trying to say you just called a cripple which you didn't, you also followed it up with some very vile things, HOWEVER you apologized about those things and I have pretty much dropped it.

Yet, here you are still carrying on about NOTHING.

Your statement that men pretty much think that women are property is beyond irrational and I DON'T appreciate it. Frankly, all I got out of that mess is you are a feminist boarding femnazi, have a personal beef with men, are boarding psychotic and irrational tendencies, and again are clearly off target.

You don't know a damn thing about me, so don't even think for a second that you can label me just because I am a man. I am not a woman hater.

As I said your claims are so far off base.

SMDH

Edit: Interesting I didn't want to bold that entire statement I only wanted to bold the word Don't. I put the strong tags in. Why did it bold everything after it?

I am not apologizing and that's final.

Oh well. I guess you're just a bigot that can't change then.

I find the very idea laughable because I did nothing wrong.

Conspicuously missing from this statement is your reason why you think you did nothing wrong.

Your statement that men pretty much think that women are property is beyond irrational and I DON'T appreciate it.

Well, it's a good thing I never said that then. The closest I came to that was confirming that I believe that most men think little of women or think of them as objects. A belief you are confirming at this very moment.

Note that I said "most". Rational people can rise above their bigotry when it's pointed out to them and change their thought patterns.

Frankly, all I got out of that mess is you are a feminist boarding femnazi, have a personal beef with men, are boarding psychotic and irrational tendencies, and again are clearly off target.

Interesting. A couple other people got a lot more out of it than that. It's sad that that's the message you got out of it, really.

And what, exactly, is a "feminist boarding femnazi"? Besides a prime example of the word "feminist" being used as a pejorative?

You don't know a damn thing about me, so don't even think for a second that you can label me just because I am a man.

At no time did I label you just because you're a man. I've labeled you (and now I'm going to insult you. Please try to keep up) a whiny, entitled, irrational, misogynistic, hateful bigot. Because those are all qualities you have displayed in this debate.

I am not a woman hater.

Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

As I said your claims are so far off base.

Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

Also: Thanks, Taliek.

Also the person going on about your disability was someone else completely. She never even mentioned it.

To be fair, I did copy and paste that person's post in a couple places. I apologized for it, though.

now i'm just... drained. and it has to be doing the same to you guys.

Well, the feminism conversation turned out to be kind of refreshing, what with a couple people actually learning something. But overall, definitely.

I, too, am tired of the energy debate, and it doesn't matter anyway because 3O isn't going to change a functioning core mechanic because some people are making whiny posts. In fact, I'd almost put down a bet that they are using the number of whiny posts as a metric for how well the mechanic works (For every four whiny posts, one player opened up their wallet instead of the forums. 20%...)

Is anyone in here actually talking about a community push to pick a standard price for the CE exchange to revolve around anymore? Or is everyone just talking about the business model, general characteristics of women / men, and insulting eachother?

Because based on the page long replies that make me kind of sick whenever I examine them, I'm worried that the original topic of conversation is being ignored in favour of name-calling and unrelated debates.

She is saying that I demeaned her with the word chick when I didn't.

You did. You used the word toward me. Regardless of your stated intent (which is questionable at best, considering you admit to doing exactly this in another instance) you don't get to decide how I feel about it.

You think your really cute don't you?

I do! Thank you for noticing. :3

I love how you backpeddle over the very things that you said earlier and then try to twist the words that you said.

Actually I called direct attention to the exact words I said. You are the one that attempted to twist them. You've done this multiple times now.

You and women like you I have a severe problem with. You seem to walk around hating men and thinking we are all women hating douchebags.

lol. "Women like me". You know nothing about me. You have no idea what I'm like. Did you notice the completely civil conversations I've had with other men in this thread?

You have now thrown many an insult at at me that are completely unfounded.

Nope, every single one of them is quite well founded. For reference: you are a whiny, entitled, irrational, misogynistic, hateful bigot.

I am seriously hoping you don't blame men for your problems...

What problems? I blame you for the problems I have with you, so I guess sort of?

You are ridiculous, I have lost all utter respect for you, you aren't getting an apology and frankly you can walk off.

That's what, the fifth time you've called me ridiculous?

I'm done here.

Well, I mean, that's you leaving a bigot then.

And all you others need to realize that she is the one in the wrong, constantly twists her words, and backpeddles.

Just because you say it doesn't make it so.

Not to mention she copies other things people have said and directly uses them in her posts.

Oh NO!!! What a HORRIBLE thing for me to do!!

I forgive you for your BLATANT insult about my condition but I forgive you for nothing else.

Considering that's the only thing that you could forgive me for...

...

I'm worried that the original topic of conversation is being ignored

Considering the number of threads on this subject in the first page, I don't think that you have much to worry about.

can we just call a truce? no one is going to walk away happy, but lets just walk away anyhow.

I'm happy right now. I'm trolling him just by existing. Also I'm really hoping to get another adjective to tack onto my label.

Forum Rules:

Be respectful and polite. Use of the forums is a privilege, not a right. Bans on the forums are permanent! Some of the things which are not allowed to be posted on the forums are:

- Personal attacks--anything intended to insult or belittle another person.
- Foul and offensive language, the forums should reflect the same standards as the game. If it's filtered in the game, then it should be filtered on the forums.

and we broke them well

I am willfully ignorant and stubborn, but I am not those other things.

The other things that were said were way out of line and completely untrue.

it doesn't seem at all fair that we don't get shamed for posting on the same board as gos1, by choice, while people ani has never met get shamed because you don't like her tone

yeah seriously dont bump these f-in thread anymore, idiots. well, starting.. now. maybe we need an admin to come here and clean up this mess.

*SENDING OUT BATSIGNAL FOR TOPIC LOCK*

ahh, so much lag when posting ) : .. but ...

I don’t really think ThreeRings should cap CE at a certain price. I feel that what makes Spiral Knight special is the limit amount of energy given per day (which classifies it as a casual, browser game) and the play-controlled energy market.

I remember reading someone’s post that they should cap the amount of CE one can hold. I think capping the amount one can buy off the free-market per day would also work. Since this is an economy, it’s crucial to ensure some people aren’t controlling the market, or holding “market-power”.

----------------------------------------------
What Three-Rings Can do now. . . (imo)
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Right now the problem is that people who have reached the cap of the game’s content are able to control the market and buy off all the CE supply there is. I believe that there should be some sort of crown draining system to set in place for the higher level. (for instance, crafting enhances that can boost UV production chances charged at a certain price.)

After setting the rule of being able to purchase certain amount of CE per day, push out a CE purchase promotion by reducing $9.95 to something lower to boost CE supply. (if supply is too high, you can always readjust the aggregate supply by promoting CE drainers like special arena levels that take more than 10CE but has low chance of dropping UV or new equips.

Last…. I don’t think that post about setting it to 3k is possible. It’s like telling people everyone to not buy oil on a single day. Yeah you might lower prices on one day, but it’ll quickly increase back up … @ @

what policies do you guys think 3O can implement to help out the game economy? : )

"Anisoptera is the reason wife beaters exist."

Men who beat their wives exist because they are sad, mewling, insecure lumps of crap, who need to feel like big tough men. So they try to take out their aggression on targets that can't really fight back effectively.

It's much the same basic motivation as an internet troll, really. You should be familiar with that, at least.

It's funny he included Mew in his post...cuz that was #151 of this topic :D

I'm so cool. 3O should pay me to play. In fact all of you should pay me 100 crowns just because I'm so cool. I used to complain about the price of CE, but then I GOT BETTER AT THIS GAME. Seriously why complain about something you get to do for free? I am going to quit playing anyhow - Darkspore drops tomorrow....I want to give Anisoptera the rest of my Energy, crowns and mats...So message me in-game my name is WarGhoul. I normally wouldn't give money away but I have a forum crush on you. Oh yeah and I wont play this at all after Wednesday. Nice knowing you guys.....this game is about a 5.5 out of 10. After 2 months will any of you care?

This thread has a lot of stuff that would make any Econ 101 professor cringe, but one thing that everyone should really be aware of:

The only way to generate CE is for people to pay real money for it.

Think about this. You can argue that those who pay don't deserve more, but the only way for you to craft anything over 3* is to have CE on hand. If you aren't a paying customer, that means you go to the CE market for it. At this point, you can look at the prices and think "exploitation!" and "curse the free market!", but the only way you are even getting that CE is because someone else paid for it. Three Rings doesn't just put CE up on the market for crowns, it comes from paying players.

So whenever you're at the CE market, remember that the only reason you can even buy it with crowns is because somebody else paid real money for it, probably with the expectation of getting lots of crowns for it. You are paying them "fake money" for that. And if everyone stopped paying for their CE, you can bet the prices would skyrocket, and eventually there would be no more CE to go around, and we'd all be stuck at 3* forever.

In other words, thank the people that pay real money for this game, because THEY are the reason that prices are staying as low as they are. Without them, we'd all be hosed.

That's nonsense. They certainly -could- inject CE into the game, but they have no motivation to do so, and it would go against their business model.
It -all- comes from paying players.

The only time I have ever seen the cash currency 'injected' into the game by anything other than player cash purchases was in the early beta on Bang! Howdy, when gold dollars or whatever they were were sold for 1000 'scrip' at a fixed value. When cash purchasing was enabled, the spawning of an infinite amount of gold at 1000 was disabled at the same time.

I was very late into beta for Spiral Knights and cash was already enabled, but, in any case, there was a total wipe between beta and release so if there was -ever- any CE in the game from any source other than cash purchases, it is gone now.

(Well, technically, there is the 'bonus' CE that was given to players who made cash purchases in Beta, but really that's just selling them the CE at a discount for promotional reasons; and puzzle pirates has had promotions like a few doubloons for signing up for Netflix or a credit card or whatever, but that's just three rings getting paid by the sponsor rather than the player. SOMEONE still payed.)

Three Rings doesn't magic up hard currency (doubloons or gold or crystal), if they feel that prices are getting out of control they handle that much more indirectly, with incentives or currency sinks and so on. Three Rings needs to get dollars for crystal energy, not crowns. They have infinite crowns if they want, they need the kind of money that pays bills (and salaries) in the real world.

While it is *possible* that OOO is injecting CE, it is almost impossible to prove it does or doesn't.

On another OOO game, puzzple pirates, ringers have explicitly stated that PoE<->doubloon market (basically the same as the crown<->CE market) is completely player controlled and they don't inject dubs or anything. Sure, the ringers could be lying, but I doubt it.

I could see them injecting CE during beta, since some many things are out of whack/unstable, but the evidence points to them not doing so, even when CE to crown exchange rates were very high.