Spiral Knights - How good is gunning in Lockdown?

How good is gunning in Lockdown?

72 replies [Last post]

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 13:25

Embodien

Well gunning always looked like fun to me better than going with the mainstream skolver toothpick. So i decided to grab my Prisma driver and give gunning a go to get a feel of it. By the way I was wearing ashtail because thats the best armour that i have that gives piercing defence at the moment. Anyway I noticed that it was extremely difficult to hit people not only that but whenever i felt i hit someone the shot did nothing. No damage icons went off the person at all and so throughout the matches I felt so useless:

Yes I know how to One hit instead of using both hits. Well I was wondering does gunning get better than this at 5* or is it all a bit tedious?
Yes I acknowledge I suck at gunning but im willing to give it a try but because im F2P im unsure whether to build a set seeing as im halfway through my swords set and almost finished my bomb set. So is gunning really worth it in lockdown?

If it is what items do i get and is gunning only useful at 5* or is it also viable at 4*? At the moment I only have a Prisma Driver.

For anyone thats curious I did 4k damage in t3 lockdown and averaged roughly 3k/4k ish over 10 games not great and it felt like I was doing nothing compared to when i bashing people whith ma piercing weps.

Thanks.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 13:40

Juances

Nothign is truly viable at 4* for serious lockdown. The weapons gain slightly improved special features and damage that can make a difference.

The guns I would make are polaris, callahan and sentenza.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 14:07

Sypsy

You're probably only doing

You're probably only doing chip damage.
The damage you're doing with your prisma just doesn't cut it at the moment because it's a 4*. You'd have to upgrade it & heat it up (unheated 5*'s do very little damage.)
Also, if you gun in ld, it is recommend you get some gun damage things (shadowsun set and/or elite trueshot modules)

Polaris and the sentenza/argent peacemaker work fine for ld.
Callahan is more of a novelty for those awesome kills. You could not use it as your main gun because it leaves you too vulnerable when dashing around.

I agree. Gunning is fun. Especially when everything just clicks and you can kite strikers while damaging them. (Though sometimes this is not the case and it sucks.) Focus on getting your gear to a decent spot before playing, or else you'll get too frustrated to enjoy it.

Sat, 03/31/2012 - 14:07

Demonicsothe

Drivers are better for

Drivers are better for gunners who want some serious damage. The damage potential of antigua line is the entire clip. And it is hard to get that entire clip off to deal good dps. Gunnr strikes require that mobility that they can get with shoot, run, shoot.

Defence in lockdown saves you approximately one more hit from that source. So If you use vog and switch to skolver, da/brandish will take one less hit to kill you, while toothpicks need one more hit. Not a major change, as you can see.

And you had no gun damage bonus, so you wouldn't do much damage anyways. Gunners need eery bit of that damage to compenate for having a lower base damage than most weapons used in lockdown.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 00:12

Embodien

So is it worth making a

So is it worth making a gunner lockdown?
Are gunners useful in lockdown t3?
And what should I get if I do...

^^Basically what im asking

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 01:43

Sypsy

Yes Yes Err.. up to

Yes
Yes
Err.. up to you:
Alchermers, antigua line, polaris are generally the go-to weapons.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 03:02

Embodien

Any specific loadouts what

Any specific loadouts what about gunning t2 while im heating my gear?

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 10:44

Jonathansiu

I've seen a few gunners who

I've seen a few gunners who are REALLY good with valiance, but I don't know how it fares comparing to alchemers. Maybe you can look into that.

Sun, 04/01/2012 - 11:13

Slayzz

Unless you're a gunning pro,

Unless you're a gunning pro, like Bluefood, then stick to flourishes

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 11:05

Good-Spirit

I'm also ftp save for a 20$

I'm also ftp save for a 20$ christmas present back in Dec. :)

I was lucky to have 5* gear when LD came out. Couldn't imagine trying to play it in 4* armor gunning without damage trinkets. 4* guns you can get away with if they're fully heated, but 5* is always better.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 00:37

#10

Warriorrogue

It's almost impossible

It's almost impossible without damage/health trinkets. and even more impossible when facing a certain gunner from my guild...
/me glares at Blueflood

EDIT: also, seriously, aim into groups when using drivers. the bounces can cause mayhem, and with storm/hail, disable a few of them.then a swordie can go up, and smash them. Usually the toothpick skolver strikers.Or a warmaster rocket hammer. or both at the same time. or a voltedge charge. or a GF combo. Or a DA combo/charge. or a glacuis/voltedge/combuster charge. or a BTB charge. Actually. any charge...>.>

Mon, 04/02/2012 - 19:57

#11

Dukeplatypus

It gets easier to hit targets

It gets easier to hit targets with a bit of practice. Try to aim a bit ahead of your target so that they run into it. For some reason your shots like to disappear without damaging when they make contact with a moving target directly. Oh, and invest in an umbra or status driver, status is immeasurably more useful than the extra tick of damage and it does provide a bit of support for your teammates if you're not confidant in your own damage. I typically roll with a magma driver, but I'm trying out valiance with limited success =/
I also carry a Polaris, but as a matter of pride I promise not to use it unless you bust it out on me =P

Edit: that's first bit only really only applies to drivers. Different guns have different speeds and require different tactics.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 06:41

#12

Rangerwillx

@Blueflood

That sentence came out a bit weirdly..

"I haven't spent any money on the game, except when I spent 20$."

Also, when you get your new computer this month, (I'm pretty sure I heard you talk about it somewhere) you're gonna be even better, :O

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 06:40

#13

Trying

Turn off autaim

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 06:42

#14

Rangerwillx

Tsk tsk..

Evil trying! Why must you post where I post?
Bad twin.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 06:43

#15

Trying

Let's make my avatar a zombie

Let's make my avatar a zombie too :P

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 06:57

#16

Ndognine-Forums

I'm also interested in LD

I'm also interested in LD gunning. What kind of armor would you recommend? Justifier for the pierce defense, or shadow sun for the increased damage? (too bad we can't get both anymore :(

Also, what class would be better? Striker for movement or recon for the gun bonus?

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:01

#17

Rangerwillx

@Ndogten

While I haven't gunned much in LD, at least yet, I have read a few tips on the forums, and of course got clobbered in LD by gunners.

You're going to be wanting Shadowsun for armor, and helm.
Not sure if you'd want to go with two Pentas with those, or go with one E damage trinket and one Penta.

For class, it depends on your playstyle..but striker is probably better if you really know what you're doing.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:05

#18

Trying

In my opinion Justifier for

In my opinion Justifier for striker and shadowsun for recon. ASI help you run away and if you are recon and you get found out you're dead no matter what armor you got on.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:07

#19

Rangerwillx

@Rangerwill

But with no damage, you'll have to shoot at the person you're attack FOREEEVER.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:08

#20

Ndognine-Forums

Too many rangerwills @_@

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:11

#21

Trying

That's only if they are

That's only if they are guardian. For strikers, you should have a gun of each damage type so you just use the one that their armor doesn't cover. For guardians you have to hold them off until the toothpick strikers on your team come.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:13

#22

Rangerwillx

Eh, no damage just doesn't sound appealing.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 07:17

#23

Trying

Go be a toothpicker then

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 08:00

#24

Demonicsothe

I run full shadowsun. Really,

I run full shadowsun. Really, that and pentas is kind of what you want if you gun with alchemers. Play strike, and you rely on dashing away. I havn't run asi on guns in pvp. I know it helps, but with latency and speedy toothpicks, they'll hit you anyways. Perhaps the asi can let you dash away faster, and avoided a hit that would've hit. Then the justifier saving you an extra hit from a piercing source.

Bu then you are giving up damage/heart trinkets. So it depends on what bonuses you feel like you need.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 11:47

#25

Dukeplatypus

I typically run with full

I typically run with full shadowsun, 1 trueshot, and one penta (I still get 2HKO'd by GF >.<)

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 12:48

#26

Embodien

Overall im currently looking

Overall im currently looking at:
Trollaris (polaris)
Umbra Driver
Sentenza
Nova Driver/ Hail Driver/ Callahan (not sure which one to get yet)

Full shadowsun
Trueshot and Penta pendants.

Is that good and what should i choose as a final Weapon?
And also this may sound dumb but is there anyway to make your pellets hit more often?

Thanks for all your help guys so far and to all those who posted (:

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 13:06

#27

Demonicsothe

I'd advise hail/storm as a

I'd advise hail/storm as a utility alchemer, then nova/umbra to deal more damage when they are shocked/frozen. For most gunners, callahan isn't used because of the movement penalty.

However, callahan recon seems to work nicely. Pop up, take a shot, and disappear. Your gunner set can work in this capacity.

As for aiming, turn off autoaim. I don't thinkit works beyond sword range, but if it does, it doesn't help. Only place it does is to help aiming with calla. Aim ahead or where you think the enemy will be, and dash preemptively. When against strikes, dash away and aim at where you were. Don't worry about making slow, accurate shots. An approximation is just as good, and you can stay safe.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 13:34

#28

Fallconn

@Embodien

personally, as a T2 Lockdown gunner, i use: Shadowtech Mk 2: Voltech Mk 2: Cryotech Mk 2: Magnus: and a swift flourish, the armor i use is: Flawed Mask Of Seerus and or a Gunslinger hat: Gunslinger poncho thingy so there u go ^_^
[EDIT] i also use Tri-Heart pendants :P

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 13:36

#29

Dukeplatypus

For brute damage damage, I

For brute damage damage, I actually recommend magma driver more than Nova. You cant guarantee that your next shot will land but you can be sure that fire wont spare them.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 13:43

#30

Embodien

So as a gunner in lockdown

So as a gunner in lockdown (going as a striker mainly here)
You don't use auto aim?!?

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 13:48

#31

Demonicsothe

You can't guarantee to proc

You can't guarantee to proc the fire enough to outdps nova/umbra. And since the rates are about the same, why not a shock/freeze for cc, then follow up with That magma/nova/umbra damage?

Autoaim, nope. Besides magnus line, no other bullets travel fast enough to take advantage of shooting people where they are before they move. Ap/sent could, but they require multiple shots to deal damage. Thus, leaving them open to be hit.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 14:51

#32

Fallconn

FALCON PUNCH!

@Embodien i find it easier to aim without Auto-Aim on, but you should try both ways to see what fits you best, Happy Gunning :D

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 14:57

#33

Dukeplatypus

I used to use auto aim, but

I used to use auto aim, but then I found it was messing up my shots and I kept missing their knees...
@demonic you have the same chance of causing status with all 3, but freeze and fire cant be on a target simultaneously and there's trolaris for shock (and knockback and 3 shots and a larger bullet). Umbra is a slightly different case because it does shadow damage. The appeal of fire, to me at least, is that even if they run away or kill you in the process, the fire lingers (and there's nothing more satisfying than watching your target burn to death on the kill cam). Plus, if you're mobbed, you can hit fire on one target, dance around and maybe ricochet more fire, and knock them out one at a time while they all weaken, where freeze would be debatably more useful 1v1 (although you should consider the Vog:skolver ratio on average in LD)

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 16:02

#34

Somenubcake

I also prefer to use the

I also prefer to use the magma over the nova in general. there's also that mental edge you gain when your opponent(s) is(are) on fire (they have a higher chance to panic or run). of course if u see the whole enemy team run around with full vog, take the storm instead.

i don't use autoaim in lockdown.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 16:06

#35

Fallconn

FALCON PUNCH!

oh yeah, i've found a neat tactic, when firing, instead of having to wait to fire that second bullet so you don't have to reload, you can just switch to the next gun, fire and switch back, i use this alot....its like ASI :D

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 16:47

#36

Demonicsothe

Yea Fall. Someone had a test

Yea Fall. Someone had a test where they did that shoot, switch, shoot tactic. For alchemers, it seems like it does fire the most bullets in the same amount of time. The guy switched to another slot, then back to main weapon. But if you roll with 2 alchemers when you gun, you can basically fire off one shot from each, alternating.

Or you can craft double umbra.... :3

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 17:14

#37

Bighondo

@Embodien,-Auto-aim should

@Embodien,
-Auto-aim should absolutely be off, that should be the first step of any gunner.
-I don't really find 4 guns necessary (3 is easier to switch between and will generally give you what you need for most situations.) Your current setup of Umbra/Sent/Polaris is thus pretty good. But if you really want to fill out that 4th slot, I'd fill out it with either a Storm Driver or a Valiance. Storm b/c of the shock, and Valiance because...well, if you become experienced at gunning, you'll eventually get to the point where you realize that alchemers, while pretty effective and fun to use, have a certain peak to them. That's where the Valiance, with its great potential, comes in...so you may as well get some practice with it now. It's a good deal harder to learn than alchemers, but once you do it's really fun and will outperform the alchemer. In fact, my current gunning loadout uses Valiance as the primary weapon, no alchemers needed.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 23:03

#38

Pawn

@ Bighondo

Can you elaborate on what the peak (limitations) are on the alchemers. And how that relates to the "great potential" of the valiance? WHy exactly will valiance out perform alchemers?

Also, i have an elite mask of seers (max shock+high shadow+curse med--meh). By the sounds of the limitations of gunner armor i'm guessing i should stick with this and just add a shadow sun slicker? I have a max shadow gunslinger sash so i'm hoping that if i make that a shadow sun i'll at least have sufficient shadow defense. Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated.

Oh and lastly, i've often wondered if a 5* ice alchemer+blitz needle would be viable? I.e. freeze the enemy then blitz charge?

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 23:24

#39

Demonicsothe

About the freeze blitz

It would probably only work on recons. Strikes, at the first break of freeze, will dash perpendicular to your shooting and circle around to hit you while you reload. Guardians can shield past it, reducing damage taken. Recons would most likely take more damage than the other two classes.

Tue, 04/03/2012 - 23:45

#40

Embodien

Any demonstrations or

Any demonstrations or examples of when a person might use a valiance or what situation it might be used in?

Thanks to everyone who has posted and helped me so far

/hug everyone :3

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 00:29

#41

Bighondo

@pawnhttp://forums.spiralkni

@pawn
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/46777#comment-315776
I guess "peak" might not be the best word to use. I just find that when I need to go up against the 'crazy' Skolvers (e.g. the UV'd ones who know what they're doing, or the ones in GvGs), the alchemers put me in way too much of a constantly running, defensive stance. The Valiance's knockback and short time between shots on the other hand, among other things, let's me be more on the offensive.

That may just be me though; at the end of the day the alchemers are still awesome and are probably the guns that you should pursue. Valiance is there though, if you want to try something new.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 05:36

#42

Dukeplatypus

Valiance damage isn't stellar

Valiance damage isn't stellar and kinda hard to use, but the knockback and speed are handy and you can do some pretty Seerus damage on anyone who happens to be wearing divine.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:27

#43

Embodien

Does anyone have any numbers

Does anyone have any numbers of the damage a gun does at 5* with max damage: Ideally looking at damage numbers for:
Umbra Driver
Storm/Hail (without status)
Valiance
Sentenza

Thanks. Right now im thinking of giving valiance a risk hope its worth it >.<

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 11:30

#44

Demonicsothe

I don't think you can rely on

I don't think you can rely on numbers from pve to measure damage in pvp. Afterall, knights have bars. Some people tested a bit, and each bar seems to be approx 40hp. A fully heated vh damage storm does around 110 on neutral. So an umbra theoretically can do around 130-150 damage per hit on max damage. But I have no real numbers.

In pvp, it takes awhile to kill anyone with a gun, and that's if the stronger swords don't kill you first.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 04:30

#45

Lishanglin

My opinion

Using a gun in PVP is more defensive because if u want to go offense with a gun u would most likely to be a recon but the radius of the spinning thing for the recon is just to short distance from the target to u so u pretty much r in melee range. If u take m hint then use a sword for offense and a Polaris for when ur capturing

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 05:24

#46

Embodien

@Lishanglin Basically what

@Lishanglin
Basically what you described is being a toothpick with a trollaris xD

Thanks anyway (:

...anyone got any damage numbers?
And how would a Callahan combo'd with a hail driver work? Well?

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 07:11

#47

Demonicsothe

Recon gunners are asking for

Recon gunners are asking for trouble. You don't have a sword's damage output to reliably cloak and still kill the guy before the match is over.

Hail is best paired with a higher dps weapon. Callahan, while having strong shots, does not do enough for those shots to hurt. What I've seen people do with hail is, freeze, then charge an release, angling the shot to clip ricochets.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 09:02

#48

Tenkii

Recon gunning

Recon gunning has better potential for trolling with movement when peeking in and out though, which means better chance to deathmark.

Not claiming to have had the best execution, but I thought about what I was doing fairly often.

example: Sword recon is more likely to either stay out of range and do nothing while staying cloaked, or show up next to you.

Gun recon can poke a shot out of melee range, and after cloaking, either move 'towards' or 'away' and still be out of melee range (and still be able to attack). Since you don't have to be in the same 'cloak' to deathmark, you can ping, shoot+move, cloak again and deathmark, letting you change to a more aggressive mode (like... using Valiance oh god it's amazing with death mark or a backup sword for massive damage).

I would use storm driver as my status / non-deathmark gun, switching over to Valiance or DA when deathmark and/or shock happens.

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 09:14

#49

Neodasus

gunners can't defend

gunners can't defend points

there I said it

Thu, 04/05/2012 - 10:37

#50

Fallconn

FALCON PUNCH!

why do you think i bring a flourish....

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How good is gunning in Lockdown?