Spiral Knights - General ideas

General ideas

20 replies [Last post]

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 10:21

Diosim

*Don't mind Luguiru he's always like that <- this stays

General Additions

/Friends chat option

So that knights can more easily communicate within their circle of friends.
Players would no longer have to hunt through the friends list to find that one party.
simple "/friends anyone on mission {insert vana here}" gets the job done.
addition could increase communication between players and thus benefit the community. (social self police)
continuing on that tangent it would also encourage players to consider their friends a little more selectively.
Note - yes, the ability to flip through the friends list to see who's at w/e.

Item additions

"Damage vs." Trinkets

Foils to the Weapon Damage Trinkets these would add more variety to the game.
Additional variety
players allowing players to specialize in a particular enemy they would like to destroy rather than specializing in a weapon
Note: while it has been pointed out by Luguiru* that this is comparable to armor with sword damage buffs vs damage vs. buffs, I believe that's actually a reason to add them. (based on the idea that it's been done for the armor, therefore it shouldn't not be done. =3 I didn't have to go there but I did for the fun of it XD)

Two Handed Weapons - not "dual wield"

"with a single mighty swing, these swords rival the trig lav line in destruction, and surpass them in power swing for swing, but with a reduced defense and a low swing and recovery time, these blades where made to strike once. God save the knight that missed"

1 swing combo (not really a combo)
perhaps a small area affect forward from the swing?
shield is removed, instead using a shield possessed by the blades. this is weaker that shields of similar rank, but the damage output in each swing is proportionally greater.
charge could be 2 hit combo. this would loosely foil the sealed and sudzy lines in 2 hit combos, 1 hit charges.

just variety at this point

Overcharge Attacks

"New! from the Screwy labs! Its 'Overcharge!. Using our suits natural ability to collect and focus the natural energies around us, and after removing a few safe guards and limiters, the techys have found a way to drastically increase output and channel the excess energy into a devastating tool of destruction! and while weapons are virtually unusable, due to the fact that the vents are installed in the palms...which may or may not lead to weapon vaporization...it won't matter anyways because you won't need those old hunks of metal anymore! No, you won't need those pesky little things. While your party is making pitiful swings at the enemy, you'll be charging the killing blow. and a killing blow it will be indeed so upgrade now and pick up an overcharge today!

Combo is series of very weak punches.
Charge attack varies by line
- cone shaped blast, like the gremlin flamers wave of flame
- close ranged, small Aoe
- longer line explosion

Buff Bombs

Not a big fan of killing defenseless baby wolvers? but still wan't to support your teammates? Use a buff bomb to make their day a little brighter! (we'll just look the other way)

"long lasting explosion" gives non-stack able temporary bonus to stats while within the blast radius
Boosts can be to attack or defense but are limited to a damage type(offensive buff gives that damage, defensive gives that defense), or monster class.
tactic for bombers would be to cover as much area as possible so that party members can actually move

Debuff Bombs

worse that getting stuck in the blizzard blast of a shiver mist, getting stuck in the fog of terror of a starker bomb.

Opposing the buff bombs these explosives deduct where the buff bombs add
in terms of damage type they're perfect reflections. in terms of monsters, it only affects monsters of the specified type. bombs are made in three lines to affect to types each.

Fri-enemy Consumable - revised from 'alter-ego'

summons a random creature to fight for you

on a personal note I'd like to be able to see the mail I sent, as a trader making lost of deals, it does get hard to keep track of all of them. I've written a program to manage a great deal of my business, so Ive gotten rid of a lot of error, even so an in game fallback would be AWESOME.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 10:27

Softhead

Yes to everything but:

Consumable(Trollaris/Supertrollar spammer!?)

No shield Dual Weilding

Magic(Heck no!)

And Buff Bomb.

Can you elaborate on the spike bomb?

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 10:30

Juances

2 handed again? the main bonus you propose is " increased damage of course". A one-handed sword with max damage bonus is already overkill against everything.
Grab a Combsuter, go solo with skolver/bts and tell me wich normal enemy can resist more than 2 charged combos.

The chance to deal even more damage is pointless besides you lose shield.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 13:22

Diosim

b.d

@ Atrumvindex
um...I meant 2 handed like it takes 2 hands to use the 1 weapon. not 2 weapons. and it would be more for later game. it could be one slow, long swing with really heavy knock back, if it doesn't kill that is. maybe the charge could be a buff ^_^

oh! and if no shield is really so scary for ya, then the weapon could have shield stats too! particularly in mind is Siegfrieg's Gaurd style (SCV)

"magic" <- why not? I think it would add an interesting style. I've given it more thought and it would basically be a charge only gun. for the ranged "spells", the close up ones would be like charge only swords.

oh! maybe if you've got one of these "spells" equipped you're attacks become weak close combat punches and kick combos! Xp

Why no buff bomb?

and the spike bomb would be like the snarby bomb, except the spikes would strike random areas of the blast radius from under the ground. maybe to balance the SEVERE inaccuracy of the weapon, it could have an exceptionally large blast radius...

@ juances
I'm not suggesting adding the sword for its power, but for its variety. I figure with swords you've got 2 variables, combo length/speed, and damage. flourish is at one end with 5 rapid hits, and sealed sword is at the other 2 slow hits. I say push it even farther with a line of great swords or something Xp honestly I'd kinda wished that's what they had done for the triglav and co. I mean yes its a game, but it would have been cool to have the variety.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 15:59

Luguiru

Predictable surprise

Spiral Knights, as part of its design, allows a single character to obtain all content; excluding expansion missions if the user does not purchase the pack. This means there is no reason to have more than one knight one the same account unless the user has tired of the first or wishes to use a different color and/or persona. To switch between knights of the same account with the current mechanic the user must completely log out, log back in, and select the knight; if the user is running the game with a Steam account the log in information is skipped via Steam and the user hits the login button and proceeds to select a knight. Are these the best ways possible to switch between knights? No, but considering how minimally difficult the procedure is it should not be a significant priority.

As a user who accepts and sends friend requests conservatively/uncommonly, this would be a convenient method for communication; unfortunately the amount of people relevant to this list increases significantly, potentially messaging dozens/hundreds of users something only a couple have relevance to. If our chat menu were tabbed there could be a conversation tab where multiple users may join the chat.

Many games have this; yes, it is convenient, but keep in mind how much space it takes up on the screen. The entire frame could be collapsable to allow users to free visibility space, but is this important enough to add a whole mechanic just for communication? Our chat has a limit on how long it remembers; if you click all the way back to the first thing that appeared in your chat after sitting in Haven 1 by the auction for an hour, most of what happened will be long gone. A chat log remembers everything since you logged in.

We have weapon trinkets, why not family ones? The problem with this is the same as some users have against Wolver line when compared to, say, Chromalisk; is +4 against a single family balance against +4 for one weapon for all families? Would you rather have the +2 sword damage gauntlet or +2 anti-jelly trinket?

From what you have suggested thus far I assume you are referring to a Sealed/Troika series with a one hit combo; why would we need that when we already have Troika and Sealed lines? Effort would be better spent on designing a third heavy sword mechanic rather than branching out into new ones. I created a mechanic index in a thread for classifying which damage combinations for which weapon type is needed, though I realized the thread lacked mechanic referral. Not all swords work the same. Not all guns work the same. Not all bombs work the same. If I remember correctly swords have five basic attack mechanics, guns have seven, bombs have four (for bombs the "basic mechanic" is the charge in this context). Of those mechanics swords have seventeen, guns have seventeen, and bombs have thirteen upgrade lines. Bombs have the least variety of mechanics and upgrade lines. This is not relevant to this point but I wanted to point it out.

Catalyzer and Pulsar are as close to a grenade launcher as we are going to get.

Bombs are designed to be best used be a competent strategist able to switch from offensive spamming to supportive positioning in less than a second, not to mention strafing and chaining in junction with the various mechanics.

Lichen bomb has already been suggested.

This is active pets. Do not continue this unless you have a death wish.

Screenshot the mail, make a folder to organize each letter, delete some of the explicit material on your computer to make room for it.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 20:16

Diosim

^_^

@Luguiru
Wow you're totally right! spiral knights is perfect and there is absolutely no way to change it to make it even slightly better! All suggestions are pointless!
all hail SK!

moving on

I've had a bit of time to refine my ideas a little bit and using what useful criticism I was given.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 20:47

Serell

@Luguiru

Catalyzer and Pulsar is the closest we're going to get to a grenade launcher? Says who?
@OP : I will comment on the rest later. Right now I am tired.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 21:07

Luguiru

Emoticon

Obviously you did not read my post.

Instead of arguing about it, I am going to continue with the revised post.

See my previous post for chat rooms.

Either you did not read correctly or at all; I am not claiming it would be useless, I am claiming it would be underpowered compared to the weapon buff trinkets which currently exist. A +2 sword damage trinket gives you that +2 for all six families, whereas a +2 anti-jelly trinket would only give you that +2 damage for three weapons against one family. The weapon trinkets address six scenarios where the family based trinket only applies to three out of a potential eighteen (three weapons, six families). How would they balance this? These family trinkets would have no use outside the Clockworks and are underpowered therein compared to weapon trinkets.

Two handed weapons and dual wielding are referred to as the same for the lack of using a shield. In T3 a shield is necessary to survive. The game already has heavy swords. Rather than attempt dual wielding/two handed weapons, design a new heavy mechanic to suit your ideas.

"Overcharging" is overpowered. Use existing charge attacks of various existing weapons and you will find something to suit your style. Imagine having a free Divine Avenger charge; that is what your suggested mechanic is.

Bombs are a type of weapon. Bombs cover a larger area of effect than swords and guns. Bombs can be used in supportive combat tactics. Bombs do not give your teammates buffs. See this series of posts for a "buffing" sort of weapon.

Debuffing bombs? Do you mean Venom Veiler? Vaporizers are meant for supportive tactics by inflicting statuses which affect different enemies differently depending on resistances and specific scenarios (Voltaic is good against T3 Kats but not Quicksilvers).

No combat pets. The Mecha Knight vial and rescued knights are the best we are going to get in terms of NPC assistance. See any of the pet threads for reasons.

No, I am not always negative; I am negative when someone does something wrong or neglects something they are supposed to do. As a user in this forum you are expected to have well thought out ideas and have searched all of them before posting to prevent spam. Claiming I am bashing everything in this forum is like telling a police officer during a prison break to take a coffee break.

I am not going to respond to Serell who obviously does not know the mechanics of either.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 21:56

Diosim

^_^

@Luguiru
please post link to the aforementioned mechanics page. can't find it Xp

odd that you didn't notice the removed items... *shrugs*

two handed weapons = dual weilding
not the best equation when you consider the possibility of using 2 different swords. guess you didn't but that's okay ^_^.

hm....perhaps a clash? when two attacks land within instances of each other? both are reflected? meh random thought ^_^

overcharging doesn't even exist, so how is it overpowered? its gotta actually go through development first. and yes the produced combat style is charge heavy...but that's kind of the point. you really like the word mechanic. >,< and working on your misconception of a free divine charge, increase the damage significantly, as well as the charge time and you get closer to what I'm thinking of.

Bombs are a type of weapon. Bombs cover a larger area of effect than swords and guns. Bombs can be used in supportive combat tactics. Bombs do not give your teammates buffs.

no you're just being stubborn. Xp why couldn't blast be positive? a perfect example is the gremlins aoe heal. toss a bomb in the center, and get rid of he healing in favor of buffing, and you get the buff bomb ^_^.

I had actually come across the buff banner trying to find your mechanic page.

And no Im not talking about aVenom Veiler. I would line the vaps in the relm of status bombs, which yes is a close relative of stats, but not quite. I'm taking about a bomb that affects your damage stats. so if you where swinging a gran faust at an enemy suffering from a Starker bomb's Shadow Debuff, you're going to do sig. more damage.

Buff bomb for damage type = bonus damage of that type to attacks and/or bonus resistance to attacks of that damage within blast radius.
Buff bomb for Critter = bonus damage against critters of that type within blast radius and/or bonus resistance to damage from those critters

Debuff bomb for damage type = increased damage from that damage type.
Debuff bomb for critter = well, honestly this is an odd one, near as I can tell it would just overall bring down the stats of those critters within th eblast radius.

okay, didn't realize what you had meant by active pets Xp.

just gonna look the other way on that last but...not sure where that came from...but okay ^_^ *thumbs up*

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 22:16

Mk-Vl

Dude

Luguiru knows his s***. Trust me this guy sits down and thinks about stuff. And I used to be like you, suggesting new weapons because they were "cool". But when you think about it everything in the game is about balance. New weapons have a very small margin of error between being horribly over powered
or being the next BAB, sitting all alone and never used except by hipsters because of its worthlessness.

Mon, 04/30/2012 - 22:39

#10

Luguiru

There is not an emoticon here

I already addressed the removed weapons in my first post.

The reason the community rejects both of these is due to dependance on shields in T3. If you have not fully experienced T3 yet I recommend doing so before continuing this thread, seeing as it affects content which you may not have yet experienced; imagine building a house for a family of five because you like Lego. No, not a family of five Lego people, real people; the kind you and I are. Does that make sense to you? It makes none to me, I would rather have an experienced architect who knows how to prevent the house from collapsing to make my home than someone whose designing competency is limited to Lego; not that Lego is bad, but it takes more to complete the task. Am I comparing you to a child? No, I am comparing what it would be like if someone who has not done T3 to design something relevant to it. Am I insulting you? No, I do not insult other users as it produces nothing and wastes time for everyone. People like to insult me because I am reluctant to show emotion in my posts. Beep boop.

By overpowered I referred to the mechanic. It almost mirrors the existing charge attack of Divine Avenger but does not require the user to have it equipped; this means no one wants to make it anymore, which means less profit without providing new content. Nothing new is created and Three Rings loses money at the same time. Would this be fair? No, making the "overcharge" do more damage makes it even less balanced. Yes, I enjoy using "mechanic"; see this post where I created an index of weapon mechanics. We need more variety, not reskins. Would you like another Plague Needle? No, you want something new and interesting; unless you prefer recycling the same old ideas forever until everything possible is exploited and there is nothing left to do.

I am not being stubborn. I am being a robot. If I were being stubborn I would only post "this thread is stupid and you are stupid and you should feel bad" or something similar. There are a few users who do that regardless.

Which makes more sense for an ally buff, a rally flag or an explosive device designed to destroy? In reality, neither; in most games, the flag rallies allies, possibly giving buffs while the user raises the flag; see Wakfu in the Iop class for a reference. Yes, I play Wakfu, respond as ye wish.

Poison lowers the defense and damage stats of the target by a fourth and a third, respectively, while preventing healing. This means the target takes more damage, does less damage, and can not be healed. This is an indirect buff for your team and a debuff to the target. I expected you to have known this already.

Thank you for closing the whole "summon/pet" discussion in this thread. Normally threads which even refer to having combat pets are swarmed with trolls and flaming. I recommend removing it entirely from the thread in case they notice. If you would rather have the real stubborn people come in this thread then continue to ignore me.

Edit: I made Big Angry, it has its moments; that once in a blue moon where a bunch of Slags are all having a rave a little too close and someone trapped somewhere in the middle needs an adult and I happen to already be charging it.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 07:02

#11

Serell

Now, instead of twisting your

Now, instead of twisting your words around and saying this :
"I am not going to respond to Serell because i am stupid and don't what to say so saying nothing at all will make me right",
I'm going to actually quote what you said :
"I am not going to respond to Serell who obviously does not know the mechanics of either."
Em...yeah i do.
Catalyzer has a 3 shoot slip that shoots little orbs.
It has a relativly faster charge time for its chage attack compared to to other weapons.
Its charge attack shoots an orb that clings to enemies and explodes when it makes contact to regular shots.
Pulsar has a 3 shot clip that shoots orbs that get stronger the further they travel.
It's charge attack just shoots a big orb.
Not much to it.
I have no idea what that had to do with my question.
First off, i can understand people comparing a catalyzer to a grenade launcher though its more of a mind launcher, but a pulsar?...... derp ._.
"Catalyzer and Pulsar are as close to a grenade launcher as we are going to get."
^Thats basically saying the game is perfect and does not need to be improved.
Why not instead explain why you think a grenade launcher would be a bad idea?
Or, just ignore it and let someone else explain why its a bad idea?
You don't have to comment on everything if you don't want to.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 07:12

#12

Serell

Also,

"Two handed weapons and dual wielding are referred to as the same for the lack of using a shield. In T3 a shield is necessary to survive."
Did you not read his post?
It states that the weapon could also be used as a shield, but weaker than most =.=
The heavy sword would have both the stats of a sword and a shield, and shielding would instead put your sword up in front of you in a defensive position.
Now that doesn't mean I'm with the OP, you're just fighting against him with the wrong material.
The problem with this is that people could easily switch to a one handed weapon and use their regulaer shield when needed, making this overpowered.
Example :
Someone is attacking with a heavy sword.
A lumber is about to strike.
Instead of using his sword to defend, which would not do a good job, he switchs to, oh, say a nightblade and a volcanic plate shield, and uses that shield to defend the attack.
heavy swords could very much work if we did not have the option to swap between 4 weapons.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 10:43

#13

Hexzyle

@Azraelwing

"Don't mind Luguiru he's always like that"
Is that quoting me? :O

And dual wielding weapons is quite a large topic (if you want to get it right)
I've got a thread here for it here.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 22:13

#14

Diosim

v.v

...
guess no ones reading that whole "not actually dual wielding thing"
dual wielding = 1 sword per hand for a total of 2 swords
two handed weapon = 1 sword gripped by both hands for a total of 1 large sword. that could be used a shield...

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 23:50

#15

Hexzyle

@Azraelwing

That's because dual wielding is such a contraversial topic, it draws a lot of unwanted attention. I'd suggest refrain from suggesting it, to anyone who has the idea. It's an extremely complex mechanic to get right, 8 lines of text is nowhere near enough to convince people otherwise.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 00:54

#16

Diosim

@.@

@hexzyle ... *thumps with rubber mallet* not dual wielding! startin ta think your just trolling.
Dual weilding != two handed weapon.
dual wielding involves 2 swords
two handed weapon uses 1.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 02:44

#17

Hexzyle

@Azraelwing

Regardless of what it LOOKS LIKE (aesthetics dont mean crap all when youre talking about gameplay mechanics) you're still dropping your shield to increase total damage output.

8 lines is not enough to cover an enourmous mechanics change.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 07:42

#18

Diosim

^_^

note the whole general idea title.
may decide to flesh it out today. ttyl

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 08:31

#19

Serell

Seriously, you should just drop the dual-wielding.

Hexzyle has got a great thread on dual-wielding if you want to take a look.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 08:38

#20

Diamondshreddie

o___o

err....

yeah Luguiru is a very reflective and thorough critic, but a very good one at that.

sometimes you have to take his criticism to mind, and think of ways to improve your idea so that it fits in the game. i think Luguiru is exactly what this slowly moulding suggestion forum needs! so instead of taking it personally, take it logically.

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