Ask a Master Gunslinger Anything
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 10:47
Hi all,
It's Monday, I'm in the office, and my new boss is in HR training all day. This means I'm bored. My loss, your semi-gain!
If you have any questions or concerns about guns, now's the time to voice them. I'll do my best to respond to every question posted here throughout the day.
A bit about me so that you know who's fielding these questions. I've played with guns only for most of the beta and I've played exclusively with guns since the game went live. I have played with, crafted, and sold pretty much every gun in game. I have run through T1-T3 with almost every combination of guns equipped imaginable. I have been through pretty much every bit of content including countless Royal Jelly kills and several unsuccessful Vanaduke attempts.
My current loadout for the curious is Nameless Hat and Poncho (UV's High Elemental and Low Shock), a Grey Owlite Shield (UV Normal Defense: Low) and a Hail Driver, Umbra Driver, and Callahan all with UV Attack Speed Medium giving them "Attack Speed Increased: Maximum!".
Now, ask away!
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:00
#2
@Magnus: Vanaduke is weak to
@Magnus:
Vanaduke is weak to piercing. I don't think many people know this. Anyway, the Callahan does far more DPS to him than either the Argent Peacemaker or the Sentenza since they deal split damage. Yes, the Magnus line of guns makes you stand still, but it's almost as awesome as you are, especially with "AS:Maximum!" since you don't stand still as long.
True, you'd be better off using a Valiance or Iron Slug on the mask phase. However, I don't carry one since that's literally the only time I've found that they'd be useful. Maybe when I get another UV Magnus with AS Medium I'll make it into an Iron Slug and get a 4th weapon slot.
Anyway, not to lay the blame on my friends, but the times I've attempted Vanaduke only one of them had any 5* gear and he was far from full 5. I consider myself damn good, but under the circumstances I don't consider it to have been a serious attempt at a kill, especially since we didn't fight him in beta.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:15
#3
Is mixing swords with guns
Is mixing swords with guns and taking a Nameless Hat and Vog Cub Coat a bad idea? If you had to choose, would you use Hail Driver or Callahan with this combo?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:25
#4
Best/most useful Elemental
Best/most useful Elemental Dealing gun?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:29
#5
Honestly, the offensive
@Prizmat:
Honestly, the offensive bonuses on the various armor types aren't great until you focus on them. Notice that I chose attack speed UVs on all my guns to get all three to Maximum!
If I were using split weapons I wouldn't use Nameless armor at all. Vog Cub is far more attractive since it has the fire resist that is mysteriously absent from the Nameless piece (Seriously, nameless is identical to vog cub and volcanic demo in all other stats EXCEPT fire resist...) and would probably be your best bet if you plan on using swords and guns equally.
If only carrying one gun, it really depends what you plan on doing with it. In general I would recommend the hail driver. The enemies where a ranged advantage pay off the most are gun puppies, retrodes, phantoms, zombies, and ghosts. All of these are weak to Elemental. Freeze is also a god send on the lot since immobilizing them prevents some of the most annoying attacks from harassing you and your party. An immobilized gun puppy is a non-functioning gun puppy. ;)
On the otherhand, if you're focused on Vanaduke the Callahan is probably the way to go. It does a ton of damage to him, which comes in handy since in some of the latter phases most of the damage is coming from gunslingers. The Hail Driver will still be the best tool to get through his citadel, of course, but once you've got the citadel fights down and are just working on him, the callahan is your best friend.
I honestly think I might be the only person outside of Three Ring who knows that he's weak to piercing (excluding people who read my earlier answer). Even the wiki says he has no weaknesses. This is because even Antigua line guns will report normal damage on him (split damage doesn't do full bonus damage and shows as normal) and gunslingers are a rare breed at that level, ones who carry the Callahan even more so.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:31
#6
What are the best gear sets
What are the best gear sets for gunslingers nowadays?
It seems that the Nameless set is the best, because it gives elemental defence, and the others just give piercing, yet have some type of damage bonus?
And what guns do you recommend? I am currently going for the Callahan, Sentenza, Argent Peacemaker and Storm Driver. Is this a good set to go for or should I just change it up?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:38
#7
@DarthLOL:
Sadly, there is no
@DarthLOL:
Sadly, there is no one answer to that. The elemental alchemers all have their strengths and weaknesses. Which is "best" depends on your playstyle and opinion. Personally, I love the hail driver. Other people swear by the storm driver and I can see why. Others love the Magma Driver which I think is silly, but to each their own. Someone is even having me craft a Nova Driver for them which is frankly just confusing, but I give my customers what they want.
That being said, here's the breakdown.
Magma Driver: Best damage vs a single target. Also useful to melt ice jellies so that they can't use their freeze attack and don't leave freeze clouds on death. Unfortunately you can light oilers on fire which can get your party killed. That being said, most places that you see oilers they're going to be on fire anyway. Also, you wouldn't want to use an elemental gun on them at all since they're weak to shadow.
Storm Driver: Best damage vs a tight group. The shock damage is multiplicative since each shocked target shocks everything around it. A group of three mobs will take more damage from a storm driver than a magma driver for this reason. The CC is extremely unreliable. It has saved my life on a lucky tick, but you can't count on it. As for the downside, you can spark up quicksilvers which can also get your party killed. Of course, in Tier 3 they spark themselves up, but why risk making it worse? Not that you'd want to use your elemental gun on them anyway (that's what the Umbra Driver is for, after all) but still.
Hail Driver: My favorite. Best damage vs spread groups and hands down the best CC. You can also use this gun to extinguish oilers that are ignited, though on Tier 3 this doesn't always work (I think it's because of how much oil they throw out which stays lit and relights them). To get the bonus damage on this gun the things you freeze need to stay frozen till they thaw at which point they take a big spike of damage. It's damage is comparable to a Storm Driver vs a group of four mobs, making it potentially the most damaging elemental alchemer if (and this is a big if) nothing is breaking your frozen enemies out. Your party should let them stay frozen anyway since the CC is seriously amazing. Downside on this one is you can re-freeze thawed out ice jellies, but this is the least serious "backfire" of the three so far.
Nova Driver: Generic gun. No extra damage. No special effects. Won't backfire, sure, but the backfire on the hail driver is so minimal I think it's outright better.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:44
#8
Thanks, I guess I'll keep
Thanks, I guess I'll keep that Gunslinger hat as a costume piece than. I'm still thinking about what weapons I'm going to use end-game, because I chose the standard calibur + cryo line at start, but later I found out I enjoy gunning things more (but I can't afford it right now). So I'll probably get a lot of dfferent 3-4* equipment before I move to 5* and just experiment.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:52
#9
@iNZANE
Nameless, hands down.
@iNZANE
Nameless, hands down. Almost nothing does piercing damage. Unless you have a habit of walking into spikes frequently (in which case armor choice is the least of your worries) it's flat out better. This is especially true for Vanaduke's area. Dead shot is actually very appealing for farming zombies and fiends thanks to the shadow defense and extra damage to ghosts and zombies, but this makes it a secondary set at best.
As for the best guns to use, look at what I'm using. ;)
In all seriousness, this is heavily opinion based, but there is a strong basis for my opinion.
Gunslinging, to me, is all about being able to pick a target out of a group and hit it with whatever it's weak to. It may be sniping a silkwing in the middle of a large group with my Callahan, or freezing all the ghosts in a group with my hail driver so that they can't dash-bite my bomber buddy to death. Having one gun of each damage type is essential for this play style. That's the Umbra Driver, Callahan, and your choice of elemental alchemer, though you can see my breakdown above on why I think the Hail Driver is best.
I am not a fan of the antigua lines since the split damage means that you're never doing the best damage you could be dealing. Doing the math in full, they deal the same average damage as any other specialized gun if you shot one of each enemy type (assuming all enemy weaknesses/strengths are equal, which they aren't...) but they accomplish this by effectively taking damage off your strong and normal attacks to raise up your weak attacks. They also feel spammy to me, which isn't what gunslinging is about. More hits is not the same as more damage. The only two things these guns are good for, in my opinion, is people who only carry one gun and PVP. A Sentenza will tear people apart in PVP because most people have normal/elemental and are weak to both piercing and shadow. That being said, I killed plenty of people with Sentenza's in beta using my 4* Cryotech and 3* armor even when they were in full 5*. ;)
The other possible choice for your 4th slot if you want another gun is the Iron Slug or Valliance for the normal damage which is nice to have on Vanaduke's mask phase. The Iron Slug may also be appealing if it's splash is as good as I've heard, but I haven't found the recipe since release and have yet to talk to anyone who actually uses it.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:53
#10
Not my thread, but as a
Not my thread, but as a fellow gunslinger:
@iNZANE: I would recommend Nameless or Deadshot. The latter is more for specific boards like Dark City. Otherwise I recommend Nameless. I haven't tried Shadowsun to know just how powerful +Gun Damage bonus is, but both pieces together only give 2 points, so I'm not sure it would wind up being worth it. I also feel like Piercing is probably the easiest damage type for a gunner to avoid.
As for the topic of alchemers, I feel like all 3 Elemental types are strong. Think about what you're fighting and also the weapons of your teammates. If you're playing regularly with a bomber running Shivermist Buster for example, Voltech is going to work best with that as you can stack it over Freeze and you won't lose the Fire status constantly when they run into Shivermist's field.
Myself, I don't generally run IAS UVs on guns when wearing Nameless. You're limiting yourself to a max of 2 points UV bonus instead of getting up to 4 points of CTR or a full damage bonus against a specific enemy type.
Side note, Callahan is love, don't neglect it.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 11:57
#11
@Wallach:
I have a Hail
@Wallach:
I have a Hail Driver with UV CTR for sale if you want it. I leveled it up through 4* myself, and CTR just isn't that great.
The impact isn't big enough that you can pull out a charge attack in the heat of battle, and if you're just charging outside of battle the UV is effectively wasted. Stepping on that party button a half second sooner isn't going to change the outcome of the fight. ;)
Damage bonuses would be nice, but only for the right mob type and then you're only covering half your targets on each gun. Do I hope for construct or undead on my elemental? For fiend or beasts on my callahan? Either way this is about as wasteful as IAS with nameless.
That being said, IAS Maximum is seriously awesome. I don't regret it for a second. Remember that I just releveled a Cryotech from scratch (my fourth or fifth at this point) to replace my CTR with IAS and I have 0 regrets in doing so.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:08
#12
Mmm, lunch.
Fossa, I want to
Mmm, lunch.
Fossa, I want to ask if you've done any purely output based (i.e.: ignoring element types/resistances completely) damage comparison between the firing mechanics of the Alchemer, Magnus, and Antigua lines. I know this would be hard to test given we don't have a target dummy with neutral: all, but I feel like, if all elements were equal, Antigua would have a decided advantage based on the firing rate and clip size. Am I imagining things?
I also want to ask if you fire your Alchemer/Callahan in the shot-shot-reload style, or the shot-pause-shot-pause... ad nauseam style, for maximum damage.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:17
#13
@Thrull
I've tried to devise
@Thrull
I've tried to devise testing schema, but there are a ton of headaches since there aren't universal targets with even resists. Early testing suggests that the antiguas are slightly inferior to their pure counterparts, but detailed testing is required before I say that outright. For now my dislike is based on a semi-verified hunch and personal preference. I'd much rather place two high-damaging shots than six low-damaging shots.
If I find anyone with a level 10 Sentenza or Argent Peacemaker willing to do some detailed testing I'll provide a more definitive answer.
As for your other question, shot-shot-reload all the way. With IAS Maximum the damage output is significantly higher than shot-pause-shot. Shot-pause-shot is only viable (with two shot guns) with zero IAS. When your two shots come almost on top of one another the pause is painfully long and you're better off firing both and reloading.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:50
#14
Guns loadout
I'm currently in just the beginning stages of gunslingership (I would progress faster if Basil would just sell me the recipes I need >.<). I absolutely will not be opening up the extra 2 weapon slots on my character and can only choose 2 guns to go with at a time. Eventually I'll get a small armory of guns to choose from depending on the type of levels I'll be facing, but for now I'm going to focus on my first set of 2.
Right now I am using an autogun with a random sword. I eventually wanted a blitz needle/volcanic pepperbox with sentaza (one for close range/slow enemies that don't dodge and one for ranged enemies that either move fast or dodge). First question is whether the longer range and faster projectile movement of the blitz needle outweighs the chance of fire given by the volcanic pepperbox for that combo. Next question is whether you would recommend the Callahan or one of the alchemers over the autogun series in that combo (I want to keep the sentaza or one of the antigua lines since it gives me 2 attributes and I only have 2 slots to cover all the attributes). Ideally I'd want one gun for long range encounters and one for short, and guns that allow me to mostly cover all the attribute resistances and weaknesses of monsters. Next question then would be then if you could choose just 2 5 star guns which 2 would it be? And last question is is there any gun that's at all useful at the slime king?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 12:53
#15
Gun only user here too.
I'm
Gun only user here too.
I'm curious as to whether you often solo or group? I can solo down T3, haven't made my way to Vanaduke get stuck on the lvl with the 4 flame gun puppies/zombies/spikes and fire/button in the middle.
I find that if soloing, I stutter shot, shoot, pause, shoot. It allows my movement to be more predictable/easier to control when needing to move. Or I 5 shot, I basically just hate reloading cause it stops/slows my movement.
I use Firo/Blackhawk/Valiance (need to get the Magma/Sentenza recipes)
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:38
#16
A few questions
Currently I'm wearing Fallen Angel Set, Aegis, and an Argent Peacemaker.
I want to get a set that would let me turn my Argent Peacemaker into essentially a machine gun.
Basically, I want to know:
Is there a difference between Attack Speed increase (I was thinking about switching to Swiftstrike Buckler) and Handgun attack speed?
If there is none, would an ideal set for the most possible IAS be Nameless Poncho + Hat, SwiftStrike Buckler, and Argent Peacemaker?
Thanks!
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:42
#17
A few notes: Nope, you are
A few notes:
Nope, you are not the only one that figured that Vanaduke is weak to piercing. But.
Vanaduke's weakness to piercing is insanely minor; It's barely 7% or so of extra damage. (on a Blitz, at least) Using a Blitz Needle (which is pure piercing), I deal 62 damage a bullet on mobs neutral to piercing, ~112 on mobs weak to piercing, ~25 on mobs strong to piercing, and finally, 66 to Vanaduke. This isn't a common weakness. I wouldn't think a Callahan is able to deal more DPS than an Argent or a Blitz Needle, because of this. But out of curiosity, how much damage does Callahan do, per bullet? Argent normally deals 76 damage a bullet, and Blitz Needle is about 66, (Six bullets total) as I have said.
Argent and Sentenza are very situational; They are not worth it at all when compared to other guns for most situations. Argent is great for Graveyards and Firestorm Citadel, since zombies are pretty weak to it, however, Sentenza is borderline useless; It's only really effective on beasts and gremlins. Every gremlin (except scorchers which are already very easy to deal with) can and will dodge, making it a real trouble to actually kill something with a Sentenza, even more with gremlin menders around. (unless you're doing one of those crazy deconstruction zones and fighting 30 gremlins at the same time) Chromalisks could be be easily taken out with a Sentenza; But they're already so easy to deal with that you'd look silly for using a Sentenza for that! And wolvers... I don't think I even have to talk about this one. :P
But remember: They're also really fast, and grant great mobility. In overall DPS terms, an Argent is going to be better for taking zombies down rather than an alchemer, for example.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:43
#18
@Shinko:
Rather than relying
@Shinko:
Rather than relying on recipes, you could always rely on someone who has all the recipes. For 4* stuff (and especially for 3* and under) it's cheaper to have someone like me make the items for you. 1-3* stuff is free with your mats. If you provide the mats I charge 5k to level a 3* to 4* which is significantly cheaper than the 15k you'd spend on the recipe.
Anyway, on to your question. I don't even consider the autogun series real guns. You're too immobile, the range is too short, the spread is too wide. If you like the autogun you're honestly better off taking a sword like a troika. You'll do the same damage in the same wide-arc pattern, except you'll also get a knockback for your troubles.
I would strongly recommend replacing your guns.
If you absolutely MUST use an antigua, take the Sentenza with an elemental alchemer. It's better than an Argent Peacemaker with an Umbra Driver since 9 times out of 10 the status effect on the elemental will outperform the Umbra Driver's slight bonus in outright damage. Hail or Storm are my recommendations (in that order).
However, I strongly urge you to drop the antigua guns as well. I used to think that if you only carried two guns if made sense to try to cover all three damage types. However, this discounts just how much you suffer for using a split damage gun.
Let's do some math assuming that you only carry two guns. We'll compare elemental alchemer and sentenza to elemental alchemer and Callahan. Shoot one of each monster type (Slime, Construct, Gremlin, Fiend, Undead, Beast) with the gun they're weakest to and total the percent of the gun's damage across all six shots. Format will be:
Enemy(Best Gun: Equivelant shots with resistances factored in). If doing it for the normal damage Valiance it would be B(V: 1)+U(V: 1) ... = 6
Elemental Alchemer + Sentenza:
B(S: 0.5*1+0.5*1.25)+U(E: 1.25)+F(E: 1)+G(S: 0.5*1+0.5*1.25)+C(E:1.25)+S(E: 1) = 6.75
Elemental Alchemer + Callahan:
B(C: 1.25)+U(E: 1.25)+F(C:1.25)+G(E/S: 1)+C(E: 1.25)+S(E: 1) = 7
So yeah, the Elemental Alchemer and Callahan combo will do more damage, assuming they deal equivelant DPS on the mystical even-resist-target-dummy. Oh, and the Callahan stuns! ;)
@Jyaw3:
I have soloed to the core, but never through Vanaduke. There is too much going on in that fight for me to think about soloing it. At the very least having a partner to throw water at the mask will make things a heck of a lot easier.
P.S.
If working on Vanaduke, you might want to switch your Firo Driver for a weapon that applies a status that the entire level isn't immune to. ;)
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:48
#19
@Cantus:
Yes, if an item
@Cantus:
Yes, if an item specifies what type of weapon it effects, it effects only that weapon. If I'm not mistaken, the switfstrike only effects swords, though there's some contention on the wiki and I haven't looked very hard at this item in game since it doesn't build past 3*. It may work, it may not. Even if it does, though, it's still a pretty junky shield for its primary purpose.
In general you're better off hunting a medium IAS UV on your gun and carrying a real shield.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:48
#20
Hehe, Alright like I said
Hehe, Alright like I said never been to vanaduke fight before, only the lvl's prior and I make short work of the 3 lvls up to him. But I'm basically playing the game for looks =P and I use shadowsun set, so fire and shadow...gotta look evil (and no I don't wanna bother with costumes =P gotta be legit evil)
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 13:57
#21
Swiftstrike does actually
Swiftstrike does actually affect guns, as well as swords. But yeah, a proper shield is recommended if you're going into Tier 3.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:02
#22
Can i ask for an Antiqua
Can i ask for an Antiqua pretty please?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:09
#23
Another Gunner here adding my
Another Gunner here adding my opinion.
Attack speed is bad, thus making the Nameless set pretty awful. Deadshot bonuses work on all weapons making it great for swordsman as well. Reloading is flawed, so if you are doing it with your Alchemer or Autogun you're gimping yourself . Shock is the best debuff considering it does a little of everything-paralyzes, damage over time, reduces defense, and halts knockback. Use a Faust over an Umbra. Haze bombs are always welcomed.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:07
#24
Thanks, I will go looking for
Thanks, I will go looking for a Cryotech right now!
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:13
#25
How does the increased attack
How does the increased attack speed on the Nameless set stack and/or interact with the increased attack speed on your guns? Could you change out the increased attack speed on your guns for something else & still have Maximum there?
How do you deal with enemies that dodge your shots?
How does being a gunner compare with being a swordsman as far as soloing ability & damage output & group assistance go?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:37
#26
@pollywog No, Attack Speed
@pollywog
No, Attack Speed isn't a bad stat. It just isn't as good as it could be since it doesn't effect reload. It's still a great stat. At Maximum IAS my two alchemer shots almost overlap.
If each shot is X seconds apart, the necessary pause to avoid a reload is Y seconds, and a reload is Z seconds:
Shot shot reload has a cycle time of X+Z.
Shot Pause Shot Pause has a cycle time of Y+Y.
Which method is better depends on which is less, X+Z or Y+Y. IAS only lowers the value of X, but it does it pretty dramatically. Y is already upwards of 0.5Z, though it is difficult to measure precisely. With a low enough X value, X+Z is not only less than Y+Y, it is dramatically less.
And yes, Deadshot does effect all weapons, but only vs undead. The zombies in Vanaduke's area are easy to avoid and easy to kill, you should take very little shadow damage in there. You are very likely to take some elemental damage, however making Nameless better.
As for recommending a Faust or Haze bomb, at this point I stop considering you a gunslinger.
Edit:
Oh, and shock is not the clear cut winner. The enemy's defense is only lowered during their brief, intermittent paralysis. Getting extra damage on them while they're shocked is more luck than anything, especially considering how infrequent the ticks are. You can not count on the ticks to interrupt an attack, whereas you can absolutely count on the freeze (which does far more damage if it isn't interrupted) to keep a mob out of your hair for the full duration.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:26
#27
@oconnor
They stack,
@oconnor
They stack, additevly. Each level of a bonus has a value of 1. It goes Low (1), Medium (2), High (3), Very High (4), Ultra (5), Maximum! (6).
Armor gives you low/low for 2 out of the possible 6 IAS. Nameless (the 5* version) gives you medium/medium for 4 out of 6. The remaining two can come from a unique variant of Medium (2) or higher. It's no accident that all of my weapons have UV IAS Medium. Best I could get without being wasteful. I sold a UV IAS High to someone else who wasn't running Nameless gear.
For Fiends and Wolvers (the dodgiest of the bunch) get a Callahan. The shots travel too fast for them to dodge and if you stun them, they're easy to pick off. It will also knock them up frequently guaranteeing you an easy second hit. Gremlins can be a bit more annoying since they took the knockdown off of the Shadow Driver/Umbra Driver, but their dodge is far less dramatic and far more predictable. With a bit of practice you can pick off healers and thwackers with ease, though you'll probably never have 100% accuracy vs the bombers.
Gunners do less damage than swordsman vs one target and less damage than bombers vs groups. What makes us viable is how we do that damage. We can pick off enemies that are difficult or dangerous to approach, such as a silkwing (butterfly healer) in the middle of a group. We can also apply status effects that bombers can't due to their inability to move in under certain conditions. Soloing is slightly slower than with other weapons, but far safer. I've done full T3 runs without taking a single hit.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:31
#28
Fossa, great thread. I'm in
Fossa, great thread. I'm in the process of making an Iron Slug (got the recipe, just trying to find a good UV Magnus). I've never seen one in game, either. That's why I'm making it... like the uniqueness. I read somewhere that it's like the Callahan but longer range.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:34
#29
@kakelgis
Sorry for the late
@kakelgis
Sorry for the late reply, work is actually almost busy. Anyway, I'll get you exact Vanaduke numbers later tonight, but I remember getting something in the 160 range per shot, and even doing SSR instead of SPSP I'm not firing half the shots of a Peacemaker. Still, that's my gut feeling/fallible memory talking. I'll try to find someone with a Lvl 10 5* to run the numbers properly.
I agree with you on how undesirable the antigua line is outside of Vanaduke (and PVP for the Sentenza), but I'd take it even a step farther. The Peacemaker isn't the best gun to use against zombies. Elemental alchemers will let you move about as much as a Peacemaker while the ricochets (if properly utilized) will let you pump out a lot more damage on top of applying status effects. A well placed Alchemer shot hits three times and the shot cycle is faster than that of the Peacemaker. ;)
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:38
#30
So you could do just 1 UV
So you could do just 1 UV Medium IAS to max that out [1] & then if you had 2 UV High charge time reduction, you would max charge-time reduction as well. Would that be worth it? (I realize that finding all of those UVs isn't simple.)
How do you go about picking off a silkwing in the middle of a group?
Edit:
[1] While, of course, wearing the Nameless set.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:42
#31
Vanaduke is neutral to
Vanaduke is neutral to piercing, not weak.
Silly.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:46
#32
@oconnor (2):
UV's on a gun
@oconnor (2):
UV's on a gun effect only that gun. So all three of my guns get 4/6 from armor and each gun provides it's own +2 from the medium IAS UV. You can't simply have one IAS UV and have it take care of all of them. ;)
Also, keep in mind that all weapons gain 1/2 CTR as they level to 5 and 10, so you only need a UV of Very High (4) to cap CTR.
Unfortunately, capped CTR isn't very impressive. Charge shots on my alchemer were still too slow to comfortably use it mid-fight. If I'm just charging before a fight, or from behind cover, how long it takes me to do so is irrelevant. This is not a good UV for gunners.
@Magnus (2):
Right, that's why the numbers are gold and significantly larger than those produced by my other guns. Others have confirmed it, including in this thread.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:50
#33
Oooh, that makes sense. It
Oooh, that makes sense. It sounded like the gun bonuses stacked across the board.
Interesting that capped CTR for guns isn't impressive.
Thanks, again.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:50
#34
@DeckardCain:
Awesome, I
@DeckardCain:
Awesome, I would love to do some comparative testing in game once you get it made and leveled. Personally I love the Iron Slug model (Callahan looks like a fancy toy) and I was very curious about how it would fair. Send me a message or mail in game once you have it ready. IGN: Fossa ;)
Out of curiosity, which UV are you hunting for the Magnus? Also, is there any other 5* Gun/UV you'd consider trading for a IAS Medium Iron Slug? I know what a pain it is to level a gun to sell, but I've done it a few times now and it would be refreshing to level one to trade. XD
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:01
#35
The numbers are certainly not
The numbers are certainly not gold, unless Callahan is behaving in a different way than Blitz Needle; The whole Needle line shows blue hits/numbers, and as I said, the extra damage is so minimal that it shouldn't even be called a weakness.
If Callahan actually shows gold hits/numbers, and deals normal bonus damage, then either Callahan is mistakingly dealing extra damage, or Blitz is missing that trait. If this is the case, then Blitz SHOULD be stronger than Callahan, (DPS wise) assuming they both function correctly.
I don't usually trust the display of numbers much on those different mobs cases - Vanaduke often shows to be resistant to Alchemer's shots, although normally, he is neutral. Gremlin menders show to be resistant to Piercing, however my Blitz deals neutral damage on them, etc etc. This is one of those pretty buggy things such as attack power/defense power meters, which you shouldn't trust much at more technical terms.
And also, talking about DPS: You have to remember you're using attack speed bonuses. Sure, your Callahan gets much better with those; But why wouldn't Blitz or Argent get much better either? It's something that needs to be actually tested, rather than making speculations. On either case, considering Argent's superior firing speed, and Blitz's multiple bullets per shot, I'd say Callahan is inferior on DPS terms. Even if not, I'd still rather trust Argent or Blitz for DPS. (for Vanaduke, obviously) The difference is minimal, and each of the guns have their special traits; I'd say Blitz and Argent's traits (firing speed, several bullets per shot) are more attractive than Callahan's.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 14:57
#36
I'm a Sword/Gun user limited
I'm a Sword/Gun user limited to two slots, so I've been eying the Gran Faust + Argent Peacemaker combo to cover all of my bases. I do prefer guns, but I'm not at the point where I would drop using Swords entirely for them.
A small question:
In the wiki, the Valiance is listed as shooting four or five times... since you are an actual Gunslinger, can you say first-hand if it is four or five shots? Or, if it is somehow both, can you explain how that works?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:01
#37
I'm rolling with Nameless
I'm rolling with Nameless Hat/Poncho and I use a Storm Driver and a Mega Magnus (which will some day be a Callahan). Should I bother with a shadow weapon? I can solo down to the core easy between those 2 weapons and doubt there's much need for a shadow weapon.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:16
#38
@Fenix:
I haven't used the
@Fenix:
I haven't used the Valiance personally. It's a generic gun in a specialized world. If you're looking for a well rounded gun, it will do the trick and your only solid alternative is the Iron Slug which requires some finesse and is a 2 shot. At that point does it matter if the Valance is 4 or 5?
@Kakelgis (2):
Yes, big gold numbers and serious damage on the Callahan while fighting Vanaduke. I'll confirm it if I go down there tonight (GF may have other plans).
By the by, I'm convinced that Gremlin Healers have a self buff they can apply that has no visible effect. Sometimes all damage is stepped down (bonus shows as normal, normal shows as weak) and sometimes the hits register properly even within the same level. The damage is only scaled by a few points, but it's enough to register as a different "class".
And yes, I know the antigua line guns will get better with IAS. Part of why I discount them is that IAS bonuses are functionally exponential and getting to the IAS cap with that gun (since you can't mass-craft Silver Sixes without selling your soul to the Royal Jelly) is borderline impossible.
Let me explain what I mean by that.
Each level of IAS takes off the same flat amount of time between shots. If normal shot delay is 0.25 seconds and IAS 1 lowers it to 0.225 then IAS 2 is 0.2. These numbers are hypothetical, but the scale of them isn't. In reality it's X, X-Y*X, and X-2Y*X with no way to definitely know what the values of X and Y are, but you get my point. I use real numbers because variables are annoying to read when trying to understand an explanation.
Anyway, going from 0.25 to 0.225 is a 10% reduction in attack time. Going from 0.125 to 0.1 is a 20% reduction in attack time even though it was the same change in attack time. The change is a bigger percentage since it's the same static change off a new, lower attack time. If it wasn't capped and you could go farther, the next step down would be a 25% reduction (0.1 to 0.075), then a 33% reduction (0.075 to 0.05), 50% (0.05 to 0.025), and finally 100% (instant shots for the win!).
Not being able to reliably get to the two last steps (read: the two BIGGEST steps) is a problem. If I could get an IAS Medium Argent Peacemaker the damage would probably be on with my Callahan. Maybe better, maybe worse. It would require extensive testing to determine. I'd love to test it even against someone with IAS 4 UV (I'll take off my hat so we're on an even footing), but at the end of the day I'm sticking with my IAS UV 2 Callahan. ;)
P.S.
If anyone wants to get me a Birthday present, an IAS Medium UV Silversix would be nice.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 15:18
#39
@Zizzefex
The Shadow/Umbra
@Zizzefex
The Shadow/Umbra Driver is amazing for Gremlins, hoards of Gremlins, Gremlin Healers, and Jellies. The Jellies aren't exactly hard and may not warrant investing in a new gun, but I don't think I could kill a three pack of T3 gremlin healers (that was an awful, awful arena...) without one.
The aoe heals and ressurection... make it stop...
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:01
#40
Guns Blazing
Hiya Fossa. Sometime, we'll team-up with you and do a Gun party. Callahan & Argent Peacemaker are deliciously wicked when teaming-up with another gunner to lay waste to T3 Deconstruction Zones, Wolver regions, Graveyards and Citidel.
It takes a different playing style to duo or trio with other gunners/swordsmen. Team members utilize weapons to create a gestalt effect that makes use of combining the best features of guns, swords and armor into team play.
The use of terrain features also plays an important role as a second shield or execution zone. In places like Deconstruction Zones, a cleared bunker with low fencing makes for fun times for mass slaughter of gremlins with Volcanic Pepperbox for mass DOT; Callahan for interrupt of Bombers/Flamers/Healers; Argent Peacemaker for sniping what needs to be sniped; Swordsman for ninja-ing prey from behind...fun times.
As a team, hate bouncing when terrain is lacking makes narrow kite path arenas and danger zones manageable.
Best regards,
Raspberry and Thebadger
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:07
#41
An advice for complete my build
@FossaFerox
Hi,
I'm a bomber, i play with Fiery Vaporize (fire bombe), Freezing atomizer (cold bombe) and a Vanquisher for all fight with few monsters or charge after a freezing bombe. I need now a gun, but i can have only one. For the moment i'm playing with a Super Baster cause he does the same damage on all monsters and that not that hard to snipe the tower. For me Super Blaster isn't the best way, but i won't try all gun...
Can you advice me a gun ?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:14
#42
Thanks for the advice with
Thanks for the advice with the guns :3. I honestly like the autogun. It does decent DPS, and as long as I keep a good amount of enemy control I can lead a mob of several close range attacking enemies around almost endlessly without being hit (this is ruined by devilites who throw things at me and kats which shoot energy balls at me T_T). The AG does not deliver the best DPS I understand that, but shot distance, and projectile speed is fixed once I get the needle shot (much better range than the AG and bullets move as fast as a magnus's shot I think). Anyway regarding this:
Rather than relying on recipes, you could always rely on someone who has all the recipes. For 4* stuff (and especially for 3* and under) it's cheaper to have someone like me make the items for you. 1-3* stuff is free with your mats. If you provide the mats I charge 5k to level a 3* to 4* which is significantly cheaper than the 15k you'd spend on the recipe.
What about the things that I have like the owlite shield and the autogun where I need to have a 5* weapon to complete the alchemy =/? I could do that for my armor (too late though I already have the sash) and hat, but my weapon and shield are locked b/c I need to use the item that I already have to do the alchemy. Do you think you could forge me a gunslinger hat :D? I had 1 more question that you didn't answer. What would be the best guns to use against the slime king?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:21
#43
@Guilian
What do you dislike
@Guilian
What do you dislike about the Super Blaster? I can give you advice, but I need to understand why you don't like one to understand what you might prefer.
@Iceni
Sounds fun. :)
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:25
#44
@Shinko (2):
For a 4* item
@Shinko (2):
For a 4* item where you already have the 3*:
Compare the cost of me building a new 3* item for you, leveling it, and then making it a 4* vs the cost of buying your own 4* recipe. One is 5k + cost of materials for 2* and 3* the other is 15k. In both instances you also need the 4* materials, but I left that out since it effects the two scenarios equally.
Depending on the item in question, if the materials and alchemy costs to make a 3* are less than 10k (which is typical) it's still better to have someone make the 4* from scratch if they have the recipe and you don't.
Royal Jelly is somewhat weak to the shadowtech/umbra driver line, but I think you're probably better off using a Storm driver. He's constantly surrounded by enemies. If those enemies are hitting him with shock it's a good thing.
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 16:31
#45
iron slug versus valiance ?
I dont dislike anything. I just will be sure to have the best gun if i want to cover all monster. Maybe an iron slug is better than a valiance ?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 19:30
#46
I'm going pure guns, so far
I'm going pure guns, so far I'm going blaster/alchemer/blackhawk, and farming for my 5star recipes. For a 4th weapon, what would you recommend? I have a magnus and a shadowtech alchemer that I've been meaning to upgrade, would it be worth it to invest in the two of them? Or should I get an avenger or something?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 20:05
#47
Pray Mr. Ferox...
Pray Mr. Ferox, if I give you mats, energy, and money canst thou forge for me a gunslinger hat :D?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 20:16
#48
@Ferox
>"If you're looking
@Ferox
>"If you're looking for a well rounded gun, [Valiance] will do the trick and your only solid alternative is the Iron Slug which requires some finesse and is a 2 shot. At that point does it matter if the Valiance is 4 or 5?"
-
Hmph. It does make a difference since the 5th shot could make or break my decision to pursue it over Argent Peacemaker, but it can't be helped if you don't know. I do have another question, though.
The decision process for choosing your weapons seems to fall into "get a weapon specialized for each damage type, then switch weapons as needed". Do the Swordmasters you know use this same strategy in equipping themselves? Do you feel that going for damage types should be prioritized over, say, status effects or versatility?
Mon, 04/25/2011 - 22:35
#49
Anyway, going from 0.25 to
- Anyway, going from 0.25 to 0.225 is a 10% reduction in attack time. Going from 0.125 to 0.1 is a 20% reduction in attack time even though it was the same change in attack time. The change is a bigger percentage since it's the same static change off a new, lower attack time. If it wasn't capped and you could go farther, the next step down would be a 25% reduction (0.1 to 0.075), then a 33% reduction (0.075 to 0.05), 50% (0.05 to 0.025), and finally 100% (instant shots for the win!).
IAS doesn't work like that, it's a flat % increase (seemed to be ~4% per IAS level for swords). Guns would work similarly. That means that if you want instant shots, you would need to remove the IAS cap and have near infinite IAS levels.
Tue, 04/26/2011 - 00:29
#50
Thx for the tips
Hey Fossa, thanks for all the tips! Based on your advice I started mass-producing Magnuses - got lucky with number 8 and got one with medium increased attack speed! Gonna make it into an iron slug someday - that splash damage sounds like fun. And I think I'll name it "Fossa's Advice". 8-)
Why don't you have an Argent Peacemaker to deal damage to Vanaduke as fast as possible without dying horribly and have posted any videos of you killing Vanaduke if you're a master gunslinger? :V