Out of curiosity, would you change your load out based on who you are grouping with? Or is your gun setup pretty universal?
As a tri-sword user I'm curious if that would alter a pure gun users load out at all if I ended up grouping with them.
I'll have to admit you must run with some pretty scrub people if you can't take down Vanaduke though ;) Sounds like you need a reliable Tri-sword user along with you to carry you through.
So I'm working my way into Tier 3, still have all 4* gear and I was wondering what I should do about Vanaduke. I've read a number of posts that suggest Cryotech is the best choice for all the areas of the Citadel because they freeze the zombies and generally do awesome elemental damage. I have not heard, however, how it performs against Vanaduke.
Since I can only use 2 weapons at the moment, I need to decide what best compliments my 4* Calibur for beating Vanaduke. At the moment I'm choosing between Valiance and Hail Driver as goals. Do either Valiance or Hail Driver stop movement, which is important for Vanaduke? Is Cryotech too weak to do much damage against Vanaduke once he becomes melee proof?
Thanks.
Would it be a good option to exchange the nameless hat for the grey feather cowl to have extra status resists if you find yourself set on fire too often? Is the elemental defense on the cowl better than that on the hat?
Or is the attack speed increase important enough to go for the nameless anyway?
I did think about the divine veil, too.. might'nt it be nice to have extra shadow defense?
I just don't know how important the extra attack speed is, if it is a must_have for someone going for pure guns. Can someone help me there?
@Sunarien:
As a gunner you shouldn't be set on fire *that* often. A single trinket from Brinks should be enough to offset it without sacrificing too much of your offensive bonus and ele resist from the nameless. Shadow defense... you shouldn't take shadow damage unless you lagged, to be perfectly honest. That being said, I'm about to pick up a shadow resist trinket as well (to hold me until I gather another 100 forge sparks for another fire resist).
@Newton:
For Vanaduke in particular I strongly recommend the Hail Driver. It's elemental damage will do strong damage against zombies and gun puppies, extinguish oilers, immobilize the lot of them (frozen Trojans are hilarious, must hit them in the back of course), and is still useful against vanaduke. It does not cause you to stand still, though it does slow you slightly while firing.
Vanaduke's citadel is especially nice for the alchemer series since you're typically firing against tightly packed groups of enemies. This means most of your shots will ricochet from enemy to enemy and you end up dealing triple damage.
@Delph:
My set up is universal, though I'm considering getting a storm driver for non-Vanaduke runs in which my sword using partner complains about enemies being frozen in place by the hail driver. Apparently this prevents him from knocking them back (he must not swing very hard amirite?) and he takes all kinds of damage. It would be a bigger priority, but reliable tri-sword players are hard to find. I don't think I've run with the one in my guild in close to two weeks at this point. XD
(Full disclaimer, Delph is the guildmate in question)
I'm almost certain the real reason you want to use the Storm Driver is because you want me to die horribly to the Quicksilvers. I'm on to you.
In all seriousness though, now that I have the Grand Flourish the runs are MUCH easier to do. Being able to take out the wolvers and fiends easily is a godsend. With that sword the Hail driver would be less of an issue because the interrupt/knock back is on the third swing and the sword in general is quite speedy.
But yeah for big two handers that rely on the knockback to keep them safe, the Haildriver can be a bit rough. Usually it just means I need to ignore those mobs and honestly it's just a minor annoyance.
i took your advice about nameless armor.
now i'm running nameless, owlite, umbra, hail, callahan and volcanic pepperbox (lol, cutting grass sucks)
my stuff is almost maxed out, so in trying to think of stuff to do, i decided to start farming uv's.
are uv's any good at all?
what are the actual, hard benefits of having something like high damage vs. slimes on my umbra?
I replied to Sparkster without realizing that was old & taken care of....
I am going to post in this thread, and get some advice from a gunslinger.
Currently, I've got Full Vog, and Full Sunset gear. My current weapons are Combuster, Rock Salt Bomb, and Iron Slug. I plan to get an Ionized Salt Bomb before the end of the week. That will cover shock, and also do some Piercing damage (which makes up for the lack of Piercing that my Iron Slug does).
My eventual goal for setup is this:
Nameless Hat (Medium ASI Guns)
Vog Cub Coat (Medium ASI Swords)
Swiftstrike Buckler (High ASI Guns AND Swords)
Combuster
Iron Slug
Ionized Salt Bomb
I have some questions though.
1. Would a Callahan be better? As I am using only ONE gun, I figured I'd go with Iron Slug for the all-around damage. But every once in a while, I miss the occasional Stun. Still, the decreased damage vs. Constructs is something I'm not willing to settle for in what is to be my only ranged weapon, which is how I'll deal with a lot of Gun Puppies.
2. How does the Shadowsun gear work? It's only a low damage bonus per piece of equipment, which I hear is pretty garbage. I know attack speed is typically better than increased damage, but I notice that with the Iron Slug at least, the speed benefit is barely enough to actually help me out, even at Ultra. Would damage be better for the Iron Slug?
3. Looking at my loadout, are there any suggestions you can give me? What weapon to switch out with what, and why?
Note: I rarely party alone. Most of the people in my guild already have Freeze bombs, and a few have a Glacius. The way Freeze functions, there's really no benefit for all 4 people in the party to have Freeze bombs or weapons. Also, I'm not a fan of Alchemers.
@meowreka
I'll put in my 2c. I don't have much to comment on regarding armor set-up, to each his own.
1. If your primary concerns are Gun Puppies and Lumbers, is there a reason you are not a fan of Alchemers? I will say that the lower level Alchemers are pretty crappy speed-wise, but as they level, so does the speed of the bullets along with the added ricochet effects. A Voltech would be handy given your typical party.
2. Med IAS > Low Bonus Dmg. It may be more beneficial to get a UV: Bonus Type, that way it covers both your speed and dmg bases.
3. Callahan is a great gun, but given the spread of your weapon expertise, it may be a little restricting. If you're against Alchemers, but still wish to do above dmg against Constructs, then I'd advise going with the Pepperbox line of guns. You'll get the 'Normal' dmg with the added benefit of the DoT from Fire.
My question is, how attached are you to your Combuster? Changing the sword out will open up better combinations with other guns.
I'm not particularly attached to the Combuster, but it would be a shame to shelve a 5-star weapon I JUST got. Not to mention I strongly believe that a Sword of some kind should be on-hand at all times, if for nothing more than to cut up Grass so I can get my 1 crown. It's the Spiral Knights equivalent of beach combing, but it gets money and takes a very small effort.
keep the sword, ditch the bomb for a voltech or something. I have heard, although i dont know from personal experience, that that particular bomb especially is not very effective.
I switched it out. I dropped the Ion bomb for the Volt Driver. Looking to upgrade it to Storm when I get the energy.
Glad we could help. I didn't necessarily say you had to drop a sword completely and I understand the anxiety over shelving a brand spanking new toy. Let us know what your thoughts are on the Storm Driver and see if your opinion on them has changed.
I like Shock weapons, however the only dungeons I'm interested in doing right now have Shock stratums. That makes it very hard to get to Vanaduke.
True, but that shock stratum may not always be like that in the future. Unless you're intent on gathering all weapons, it's better to maximize the overall effectiveness of your gear which is why the Spiral Gods gave you a rather handy alternate weapon slot.
I currently have the same setup as meowreka in terms of the Armor and Helm. Not going for anything else with the weapons she listed.
Really though, I want to ask. Nameless Hat vs Deadshot Chapeau.
I hate Zombies with a passion and I'm eventually planning to be able to gun them down. While the Medium Attack Speed with the Nameless Hat is alright, it's barely noticeable IMO. The Deadshot Chapeau has a damage bonus vs Undead (The wiki doesn't state whether with guns or not) which appeals to me. The shadow damage defense and curse resist also appeal to me since I want to be able to SURVIVE in those graveyard levels.
Which, do you guys think, is better to have?
I could also care less about the Alchemers because they never really appealed to me in the first place. Unless convinced otherwise, I see no reason to get one.
My current goals are these:
Deadshot Chapeau (Unless convinced otherwise)
Nameless Hat (Costume)
Vog Cub Coat
Grey Owlite Shield/Swiftstrike Buckler/Omega Shell
Royal Jelly Band (Trinket)
Dual Heart Pendant (+3 Health Trinket)
Leviathan Blade/Divine Avenger/Gran Faust
Valiance
Argent Peacemaker/Sentenza
Plague Essence (Bomb)
@FFNFlame
I just checked the wiki, and it seems as if the DMG vs Undead only applies to Handguns on the Deadshot Chapeau. I don't have a Deadshot myself to confirm this though.
IAS is a personal preference, and while there is no great difference between low vs med and so on and so forth, there certainly is between low and very high. Using a Swiftstrike shield while NOT making use of other IAS equipment to max out your speed is gimping your set up. The point of shield is to be used in conjunction with the IAS benefits from your equipment without having to farm for UV's (I mean if I had IAS Maximum on all of my guns, I'd be foregoing the Nameless Set completely in favor of Grey Feather, but good luck with that roll).
That said, Deadshot is still viable given the fact that graveyards are your weakness, but i'd recommend foregoing the Swiftstrike in those cases for the sturdier Owlite Shield. Also, this was mentioned before but Elemental Def > Shadow Def for the mere fact that more enemies across the board deal elemental dmg.
Curse plays such a minor status affect that, imho, doesn't need to belong to a typical armor set up seeing as how rare you get hit with it. It's up to you whether or not you want to prioritize speed, damage or defense. You can't have them all unless you're willing to cough up a ton of dough.
Do different guns/gun lines have different maximum ranges? I haven't seen this covered to date in this thread, and I ask this based on a couple observations and a small amount of testing...to wit, I took a Blaster and a Cryotech Alchemizer to the lobby and did some test firings because it felt to me that the Cryotech had a shorter range when running through the dungeons.
Observation #1--range is not consistent from (uncharged) shot to shot with the same weapon--overall, I saw about 1/2 a square difference in the distance traveled by a blaster's individual shot in 2 seperate series consisting of at least 20 shots each. The range variability for the Cryotech was even more pronounced, based partially on the fragmentation effect, but was between 1/2 and 1 square variability between individual shots with 2 seperate series.
Observation #2--The scatter from the shots was more pronounced with the Cryotech--while the absolute range (distance traveled by a fragment in any one of the test shots) from the Cryotech seemed to be slightly greater, on most shots the blaster seemed to consistently go further by 1/4 to 1/2 a square, and so I would consider that to have the longer maximum range in the conventional sense.
Caveat--I know there is some difference in effective ranges of weapons (pepperbox comes to mind), though the only guns I've personally fired are the 2 above and the Proto Gun.
Request--for further testing by individuals with a wider range of weapons, and/or a report of findings from said testing to characterize differences in maximum range and absolute range, as defined above, also commenting on variability of the weapon--i.e., if a magnus-line weapon occasionally goes 1 square further than a blaster-line weapon but most shots are the same range as a blaster, that would be characterized as increased absolute range but identical maximum range. Additional comments on effective range (i.e. range at which a single shot reliably hits the intended target) are welcome.
So I'm carrying all guns with me and no swords/bombs into the clockworks.
And i'm using cryo+shadow alchemers.
But inside arenas when the last wave with a lot of constructs spawn sometimes other people complains because my cryo driver makes the constructs block and this kinda messes up on his swing timings, causing them to die a few times.
What should i do in these situations? stop shooting altogether? aim at constructs that are away from others? keep doing my kiting while shooting at em and tell the sword users to atk from the back?
What do u guys do?
If you will only be using the Nameless hat and you will have Maximum! speeds for both guns what do you recommend for a bottom set?
Quick question:
Does the Antigua series of guns fire fast enough to hit wolvers and/or other monsters that dodge? The projectiles look like they're moving even faster than those of the Magnus.
I read like 30 posts here; only thing that remained in my head: "callahan good"
which is good to know~ (I wonder.. did cobby know this? pretty sure made a callahan)
starting out, from the begging, no funding,
what are the first 2 guns you go for?
i obviously read you saying: shadowtech, ele alchemer, and callahan are your ideals
but starting out, one wouldnt rush into buying a 2nd and 3rd wep slot,
so what would your first and second choices be?
ie.. do you get shadowtec, ele alchemer, or callahan last?
to me it seems like it doesnt matter too much, but id love your opinion and information
also: what shield?!!?
id just drop the shadowtech for now since jelly are easy enough to kill, and gremlin can dodge so youd rather shoot em with magnus.
if you can manage to not get hit a swift strike buckler would be good to give you ultra attackspeed with the gunslinger set.
@bdull
Yes, there is a definite range difference between different gun-lines. I believe it was mentioned briefly in earlier posts, but as you stated, there is no substantial evidence comparing all guns across all lines.
@IceMilkTea
I carry a Voltech. Fossa had the same issue you did with his Hail Driver.
@Revolver
Congrats on getting a VH IAS for both of your guns. IMHO, sticking any other Gunslinger set would be a waste, I'd use Grey Feather, specifically for it's shock/fire resists.
@Gnosys
No. You may get lucky, but it's almost like a lottery than anything else. The Magnus line can consistently cause knockdowns on Fiends/Beasts.
@Coldcrime
I'd skip the 1* guns entirely and head straight for the 2*. But I'm going to be honest with you, until you gain access to 3* guns and above, being a gunslinger really sucks. You'll need to clarify what you mean by 'starting out', as the 3* Magnus is not really a starting out gun, more like a mid-level. That said, of the three guns you listed, I'd go for the Elemental Alchemer + Magnus line first. Just a disclaimer: You will have a hard time once you reach the JK without a consistent Shadow damage weapon; so by the time you have your weapons set and primed I'd go for a Shadowtech.
Also, I'm a Swiftstrike user. Not the most defensively optimal choice, but I consider myself a rather good kiter and rarely get hit. If you find yourself running into spikes and enemies, it may be best to stay away from that shield and pick up an Owlite. The Gunslinger set does a crappy job of defending you against the elements until you get to 5*.
@bdull:
According to my ingame obsorvations range goes: Blaster = Antigua > Alchemer = Magnus. I'm probably wrong though as I haven't been doing any real experiments on that.
@Coldcrime:
Blaster is a good choice for a start. It's good starting out handgun - just like Calibur is a good starting out sword. Wielding a Blaster you shouldn't have problems with constructs, slimes or zombies. Then I'd advice Magnus as a second weapon - for its usefullness against beasts, gremlins and fiends. With Blaster and Magnus you will be able to take down most of the mobs (of course we're talking about early and mid-game here). Alchemer was a third gun I've bought - yes it does more damage to constructs and undead, and is great against crowds (graveyards), and status inflicting is a plus, but ricochets may be troublesome as they destroy stone blocks you're hiding behind, open gates you'd rather keep closed and shatter "ice" blocks sections you wouldn't like to be destroyed just yet. Of course it's not an issue when playing with party because party members are more devastating then any ricochets ;-)
I've been playing with two weapon slots for a while and Blaster/Magnus combo worked well. I've changed it to Voltech Alchemer/Magnus combo later on, but even then I've swapped to Blaster/Magnus on occasions.
I have no expirience with Shadowtech Alchemer - my Vile Striker (UV: damade bonus vs slimes - medium) works fine in Royal Jelly Throne Room.
@Gnosys:
Note that Magnus is a good weapon against wolvers/gremlins/fiends not only for its fast bullets/hight damage but mainly for its ability to knock enemy down on almost every hit. Knocked down wolvers cannot dodge and teleport. Knocked down gremlins cannot cast spells or use health capsules. Knocked out devilities cannot throw stuff at you.
It's threads like these that make you wish Spiral knights had a subscribe/bookmark option. I know the magnus requires you to stand still while firing. I was wondering if that same trait gets carried onto the next evoluton line of the magnus. Ex: Mega magnus, Callahan.
Also, what guns do you suggest for tiers 2 and 3? I was thinking working with the Magnus line; the Callahan is looking pretty good.
@Zoa
Yes the same across the line. See Fossa's lineup for suggested guns, they're pretty spot on, granted I personally switched out the Hail Driver for a Storm.
If i was to download the game and download all the file to my computer. Will it run much faster than playing on a browser ?
I wasn't even aware you could play on browser.
First off, I hope your still answering questions.
I want to become a gunslinger in the future I was thinking of having Hail Driver, Callahan and Sentenza as my three guns which cover all the weakness's of the monsters. I was wondering, if I would be better off getting a sword for my 4th weapon, or getting a Magma Driver which deals Elemantal directly, so I wouldnt have to wait/risk losing the effect of the hail driver.
Thank you.
If i was to download the game and download all the file to my computer. Will it run much faster than playing on a browser ?
Don't kid yourself, if you're playing it "in your browser" you've downloaded all the files as well. You just haven't indicated where you wanted the files to go, but they're still there.
If you "install" the game, you won't have to open your browser to play it anymore. Depending on your system resources, this might make a difference for you. ;)
See if I can help you out, Chimpduck.
Well, Hail Driver deals Elemental Damage, so a Magma Driver isn't something you'd need in that regard. If you're considering picking up a second Alchemer gun, look for the Umbra Driver. It'll cut through groups of Gremlins faster than the Sentenza will, and it's also great against groups of Jellies. However, keeping an Antigua line gun will do you a lot of favors, since its high attack speed will keep you sane for cutting down boxes and crystals. If you plan on fighting Vanaduke much in the future, you'll want a Silversix or Peacemaker, so keep that in mind as well. I'd recommend the Peacemaker over the Sentenza, but Sentenza was basically king in PvP during the preview from what I've heard, so Sentenzas may become more popular again down the road.
Picking a 4th weapon is tricky. Here's what I tend to run with: Cryo Driver, Fiery Pepperbox, Shadow Driver, and Strike Needle. I have each damage type covered (Elemental, Normal, Shadow, and Piercing) and the reason I chose not to go with a Sword for my last weapon is because I use a Swiftstrike Buckler, even in T3. I don't want to get into melee, and with Nameless gear every gun I use is IAS Maximum. So I don't waste that bonus.
But if you're equipping different gear, it's really hard to argue with carrying a sword. In that regard, you just need to cover whatever weakness you may have. If your guns are two shots and reload, pick a faster sword. A Shadow line Brandish might be a good compliment to your current picks, gives you a good attack against Jellies, and Gremlins, if you feel overwhelmed. Or for a more all around sword, Leviathan Blades deal Normal type damage so you can use it against anything. Bombs tend to be a good compliment to guns, as well. Poison bombs slow healing but more importantly reduce resists, so you can deal a little more damage. Freeze bombs stop things from chasing you, so you can shoot them safely, but the Hail Driver does that for you already. Really, there are just a lot of options, and you kinda need to play around and see what works best for you. Cheesy answer, I know. But no less true.
Thank you for your thought full post, it answers alot of my questions.
I am pretty set on going for the Hail driver and Umbra driver now for elemantal and shadow damage respectivly. The Silversix and Peacemaker both provide mixed damage which puts me off them a little bit. Would I be at a disadvantage to go with the Callahan for pure pieceing damage?
Other than the pieceing gun which I need help with. I was also thinking of going with the fire brandish line, it provides me with a normal damage type aswell as the chance of fire which can be useful if other members of the party keep breaking the hail drivers attacks before they do any damage. Eventually I would like a Fang of Vog as I think it would be the perfect sword to go with my gun set.
Thank you for your help.
If you're open to using Swords, I'd suggest dropping the Magnus (pure piercing) and the Fireburst Brandish (burn damage) to pick up the Flamberge (Evolves from the Flourish). You can do both jobs with the same weapon, and save one more weapon slot for something else. Plus they say the Royal Jelly is only -very slightly- resistant to Piercing, so you can still deal half-decent damage on it with this weapon. (Just not, y'know, regular Jellies.)
As I posted in another thread, and I'm sure many people have discovered independently, yet I still hear semi-regularly:
You can use guns to cut grasses.
All that's needed is for the grass to be at the very edge of the range of your gun. The bullet will naturally detonate at that range and destroy any grass underneath/around it.
It is particularly easy to accomplish if the grass is next to a wall or object.
I'm benefiting a lot from reading these threads.
Thanks, all.
@ Gigafreak
I still suck at using swords, I see the Gunslinger as a medic type guy - you do damage, but your capable of getting in to revive a fallen team mate due to you often avoiding takeing hits yourself.
The Flamberge could be taken on JK runs as it allows room for my vile striker, but if I went to tier 3, I think that having the 3 guns doing the damage will help me personally alot more. Its what I am better at.
Thanks for your opinions, there are obvioulsy mainy routes I could take on the weapon front, more than I first realised.
So this morning I picked up a Magnus just to try it out. I won't be going back to the Strike Needle. The Magnus is amazing, and if you want a pure piercing gun, this is the one you want. The bullet travels fast enough it hits before the Wolver or Devilite move out of the way, has a good chance to knock them flat, so you can shoot them again. And if that wasn't enough, it stuns fairly often. Highly recommended, Chimpduck. So yeah, Callahan would be your end goal for that.
As for people breaking the ice your Hail Driver makes? Don't even worry about it. You're better off continuing to shoot and break the ice yourself because you'll do damage faster that way. In a crowd control situation where you want the target frozen, then leave him there, of course. But the extra damage from the bad guy getting frozen isn't worth it on it's own.
If you want your Normal Damage covered by a blade, the blade everyone recommends is Leviathan. I'd aim for that if you're insistent on having a sword. If you're daring to walk into melee as a gunslinger, you want every swing to count, and the Leviathan hits like a truck.
** As for people breaking the ice your Hail Driver makes? Don't even worry about it. You're better off continuing to shoot and break the ice yourself because you'll do damage faster that way. **
I thought the elemental damage only took place when the ice broke naturally?
Callahan - Hail Driver - Umbra Driver - I think are the best choice for the guns based on this discusion.
Would the Divine Avenger be better than the Levianthan Blade for a gunslinger? The charged attack seems to be more in line with what a gunslinger would be looking for, and it deals Elemental (on top of normal) which means it would work well with the Hail driver on all monsters weak to that. It also has knock back for when you get up close, allow you to knock back the monsters take a few steps back your self allowing you to draw your gun put a few shots into them and get back safe.
Divine Avenger is certainly also a top sword. It might do a little more damage to Constructs and Undead, but less to Beasts and Gremlins. I haven't read any comparisons, or have done any personally. Probably couldn't go wrong, either way.
The Hail Driver only deals Elemental Damage. When your bullets strike the target, that's the type it inflicts. A frozen target will take about equal damage to what the initial shot that froze it from what I've seen, but that takes awhile. You probably could have killed whatever it was by continuing to shoot it rather than waiting for that extra "shot" to kick in. Again, unless you want to have it frozen so you can shoot something else- a trick I'm certainly not discounting here. You just don't have to rely on unfreezing for additional damage.
I have question mr. gunslinger sir! Will three rings ever fix the updates?
It's a joke, about the poor updates everyones complaining about.
Thanks, you have really helped me decide on my weapon set. I didnt realise the Hail Driver did damage before the freeze broke.
The Divine Avenger will probably only be used when I need to get myself some space using its knock back. The charge attack on it makes it so its like having a fourth gun in that slot aswell, which is great.
Argent Peacemaker or Sentenza for pieceing damage? I dont like that I cant move with the Callahan.
Argent Peacemaker will serve you better than a Sentenza- It is more effective againsts more types of bad guys, and will serve you well against Vanaduke.
@Chimpduck: The damage of the Antigua line is split between two damage types, exchanging power for speed and mobility. Split damage weapons make a compromise between versatility and specialization. A side effect of this is an unusual combination of monster types that the Antigua line is good and bad against. For example, the Argent Peacemaker is good against fiends and undead but bad against gremlins and slimes. This can cause some redundancies in monster type coverage with other weapons.
Overall, the Antigua line isn't really recommend for anyone who intend to only use guns. The increased attack speed from the Gunslinger set doesn't make a significant difference because the bullets can already be fired in rapid succession. For a gunslinger, a status effect is more important than a flashy charge attack. The Antigua line is better suited to being a backup weapon sword users.
It takes some practice to effectively use the Magnus line but it is worth it in the end. A single bullet from will knock down most wolvers, making it easy for you to continue the attack or retreat. On Tier 1, you can knock down gremlins with one bullet. On Tier 2, you can knock down gremlins if you fire 2 bullets in quick succesion. This does leave you vulnerable but it is very useful to interrupt gremlin that heal or drop land mines. There is also a small burst when a bullet hits a monster so you can hit more than one monster at a time if they are close together.
@Sparkster:
Yes, technically the prismatech does extra damage to mechs and undead since it does elemental damage. The trade off is that it does terrible damage to beasts and gremlins who are strong against elemental damage.
However, there are three other alchemers that also do elemental damage and inflict status effects as well. You'd be much better off going with a cryotech alchemer than a prismatech since the only downside is the possibility to refreeze ice jellies that were thawed out by someone's fire attack (which is pretty rare and not a big deal if it happens).