Delardino... Get out... Now. Before i.. I.... Before i scream.
Brandishes are fine, they don't need nerfing, they need NO change. There's the door.
Delardino... Get out... Now. Before i.. I.... Before i scream.
Brandishes are fine, they don't need nerfing, they need NO change. There's the door.
They need nerfs hehehe except for acheron
I Almost feel bad telling you: I use the weapons I use, because I like them. Not for something as silly as just plain wanting to be different. I sincerely like the weapon, the Gear, and the like. So tell me, Why can my Sudaruska, that I have paid the same amount as a Voltedge, or DA, be so horrid? Shouldn't 5* be about the same, effective wise, as another 5*?
Perhaps this: Take off your wolver armor, put on Fallen, use a Sudaruska, and one ASI low trinket, and show me that you can beat a team of Skolver-strikers. Show me that you can Solo all the way to Vana duke without using the charge. Use the 2nd hit, and don't be a sissy about it. Do it in Pick up group of Wolver clones without talking at all. If you can manage not to get kicked out, I might be surprised. See, the thing is, Without that armor, and Overly powerful weapons, you (And others) Simply couldn't do what you do now.
The gap between good weapons, and every other kind of gear is too great. Its just a fact. You can then try to justify, or find and excuse to continue. You could make claims that doing any different would hurt those who made the gear. You could think that its already balanced, perhaps to the point of forced ignorance. You could think that, Hey, maybe somethings wrong, and then do nothing. You could realize that something is wrong, and then TRY.
I'd Like to stay away from personal attacks as well, as the don't add anything to this discussion and make fiery flames of hate. Examples of this would be Eldib assuming that I and Kitty are playing to be different, or anything like that. As well as the argument and attempting to dismiss Serell's experience in LD. it would be advantageous to start out thinking that they have some experience in the matter and that you might be wrong. I hold myself to that flag as well.
I will also say that splitting the entire population into two groups is assumptive and childish. Especially when they brands you're flagging us, and everyone else with can be so horribly, utterly wrong. Branding people things is childish and far below middle school level, and detracts from the conversation.
______________
Rommil... Well, Yes, I'm an Idealist, And I see nothing wrong with that. But I have spent Lots of time in this game, and, and a merchant would know, Time IS Money. I could have been spending the money on this game to make it zoom by, but I didn't, because I wanted to enjoy the gameplay. Instead I focused on being a different cog in the wheel, a Free to play. With out either of the two cogs, this game would sadly die. I dont wan't the game to die, neither, do I want it to leave out over half of the content. Especially for something that is, in my opinion, downright silly.
If you earn money via spending time, and working your butt off during the day, and then spend it on this game.... You expect your purchase, you investment, to be worth while. I have not had the luxury, really, (Though I may soon) of being able to work, to get money. Does that make all of the hard work, and time Invested in the game less then the money, and by extension, the time you invested? I don't think its all that right if you said 'yes' to that.
So basically:
what you did=time spent on job=money=CE=Divine Avenger=Sudaruska=Time spent grinding and providing the cr for P2P=what I did
Divine Avenger=effectiveness=value=/=value=effectiveness=Sudaruska
So for the same price, You got more, and I got less.
And you think its right to keep things the way they are? To not resort to any change... When I spent as much effort as you, or any other knight, to get the same level of gear. I'd say there's something wrong with that.
I wonder how Brandish-line sword users would feel if they would be gifted with "DA, GF, Callahan, Polaris, FSC water drop, Sententza, AP" feature aka "Your charge will explode when you are standing next to a wall, why? Because [bless you]"
While we're at it, let's nerf all Wolver Gear, take SHOCK away from Polaris, make guns shoot only once before reloading. And hey, make the blitz do normal damage, make haze bombs last for half a second. While we're at it, let's make every sword 0* and make it so you have to level up your knight's stats, opposed to their weapons. Hey, maybe we should just take out weapons altogether and make the knights fight with their fists.
You know why I propose these things? Because I am, as a gamer, entitled to having the developers cater to my needs!
"I Almost feel bad telling you: I use the weapons I use, because I like them. Not for something as silly as just plain wanting to be different. I sincerely like the weapon, the Gear, and the like. So tell me, Why can my Sudaruska, that I have paid the same amount as a Voltedge, or DA, be so horrid? Shouldn't 5* be about the same, effective wise, as another 5*? "
^Yes.
This.
Look, it really is this simple :
This is a game.
Games are not as fun unbalanced.
You can never fully balance it, but you can try your best.
Eldibs, it looks to me you admit your Voltedge is OP, yet you want to keep it that way.
That's selfish, no matter how you look at it.
I don't understand... even if I was an optimizer, I would love balance.
Why?
Well, as an optimizer, I would only get whats "the best".
But... if everything is balanced (or balanced to the point of almost no difference)... and nothing is "the best"... then I have a wider arsenal to choose from.
I have more variety and get to change up my play, while still having as much potential as everyone else.
balance would result in more money for OOO, because most players are optimizers, but with nothing "the best", they are more likely to get more things to change up their play.
I agree that using a brandish upgrade does make everything too easy. I feel i have reached a point in the game where most of it is too easy for me. My solution? I run an all normal weapons loadout. Triglav, Levi/CIV, Valiance and Volcanic Pepperbox. It gives me a challenge, and it is great fun again.
I don't need weapons to be nerfed, I just avoid using the weapons that I feel make the game less of a challenge.
Now I'm bracing for impact as utility weapons are going to be nerfed.
Why not buff other weapons or enemies, this is going to irritate a lot more people than it will satisfy.
I could understand decreasing the number of explosions to 4 or 3, but that's about it.
Keep the same damage, but take away explosives on the charge attack. Instead, it should remain a melee distance hit. What I mean is like add some fancy render effects on the charge attack but it's only effective at sword reaching distance.
-.-
I already stated that I know of three ways to do the same thing.
Its in my first post here... Essentially, it boils down to nerfing the OP stuff, Boosting everything else crazy high, or a mix of both. Any way you do it, the ones that have the top gear are GOING to be hurt.
Considering that the game is too easy atm, and boosting everything to deal Crazy amounts of damage and have massive health really will only cause server lag and the like, its better to bring somethings up a little bit, and bring other things down.
We don't need monsters getting a boost in health, NO WAY. DO YOU KNOW HOW ANNOYING RETRODES ARE TO FIGHT, EVEN WITH BRANDISHES BEFORE THE PATCH?!? Gremlins & Mecha Knights remind me of the Royal Jelly, unpredictable & expecting the unexpected! & now they are truly the strongest of enemies in the game. Of course along with Devilites. Brandishes should go back to how they used to be & to give more of a challenge to the game, we need more traps & hazardous zones to fight in, & tactical means to defeating enemies.
The gun puppy danger room with the army of scuttle bots was a brilliant idea. We need game play like this, the enemies can truly be a threat depending on how they are used.
In terms of 'value' for my crafted items, I've actually gotten the most 'value' out my mercurial helmet/Seetus mask and my blitz needle.
After that, of all the weapons I use most is valiance, followed by all 5 alchemers.. for swords, my most used would probably be my barborous thorn blade because of lockdown, but for clockworks.... I use almost all equally except winmillion, because winmillion is blargh. But yes, brandishes are my go to for quick, easy, success.
I don't use brandishes so much because they kill stuff too well, and aren't as fun as attempting to use a big angry bomb on something... but they were used plenty before their buff as well, and then after the buff they became the new DA. I mean, don't get me wrong people still use DAs too, but DA used to be THE sword to get. It was like, the chosen one of swords almost. It let you do fantastic things, and then the devs made its charge suck literally into the wall behind you, and brandishes became the norm. Or at least thats how I remember it, from all of those '10K CE for a sealed sword with ASI med' threads in the arcade.
Any 5* weapon is overpowered if put in the right hands. SK is way more about players' skills than equipments power. Otherwise everybody would be wearing the exact same sets of weapons, probably. If you rock with your Combuster, it just seems to mean that's the right weapon for you, no biggie.
The Brandish line is powerful for inflicting safe status effects but other weapons have strengths as well. And why am I seeing people comparing the Brandish lines to the Sudaruska? They are COMPLETELY different swords and serve different purposes. Nobody forced you to craft what you did so in the end it's your fault if you dislike what you're using because you decided to craft it. There will always be a dominant weapon and if everything was the same then why would you even make something else?
If you want to be unique and powerful I'm sorry but if something is strong then other people will use it too. Most normal weapons aren't that powerful unless you only have 2 weapon slots because they're neutral to everything and a weapon which is powerful against two monster families is also weak to two other monster families but you obviously won't use it against those two families because it's ineffective.
OOO nerfs Brandish lines...
Better nerf toothpicks...
OOO nerfs toothpicks...
Better nerf Sealed Sword lines...etc..
Moral of the story: Something will always be stronger than something else and if something is strong then people will use it.
No need to nerf the Sealed Sword line.
They are fine.
In LD I can hit anyone with my Callahan far away with ease while they swing their Gran Faust/Divine Avenger.
But at the same time they can strike up to me and put me down with it.
"Moral of the story: Something will always be stronger than something else and if something is strong then people will use it."
How many times must I say it?
Yes, something will ALWAYS be better, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make that gap smaller.
"There will always be a dominant weapon and if everything was the same then why would you even make something else?"
-.-
How do you guys not understand?
If something is obviously better than something us, then optimizers will ONLY get that.
if everything was balanced, then optimizers would have a bigger selection, and thus have more incentive to make more.
They would make other things to change up their play style, but they're not going to do that if it punishes them.
If the Sudaruska (or whatever sword) was some godly weapon that dealt 1,000,000 damage a swing, please, please tell me why any optimizer would get another sword.
The gap would be enormous that no optimizer would think of anything else.
That's why you need to try to make the gap smaller, so that not many notice it.
@Tsubasa-No-Me
it would be advantageous to start out thinking that they have some experience in the matter and that you might be wrong. I hold myself to that flag as well.
Let's see how well you "hold yourself to that flag," shall we?
"You could realize that something is wrong, and then TRY."
"So tell me, Why can my Sudaruska, that I have paid the same amount as a Voltedge, or DA, be so horrid? Shouldn't 5* be about the same, effective wise, as another 5*?"
Begging the question (a common logical fallacy) on both of these, you're assuming your initial point, and arguing from it.
See, the thing is, Without that armor, and Overly powerful weapons, you (And others) Simply couldn't do what you do now.
You're assuming that I have no skills based on the gear I use. You've never run with me before, never spoken to me in-game, and never played LD with me before (that I can recall). You have no evidence either way, and yet you judge my skills based on the gear I use. How did you put it? Oh yes, I remember...
Branding people things is childish and far below middle school level, and detracts from the conversation.
That was how you put it. Really "holding yourself to that flag" well. Moving on...
I'd Like to stay away from personal attacks as well, as the don't add anything to this discussion and make fiery flames of hate. Examples of this would be Eldib assuming that I and Kitty are playing to be different, or anything like that.
First of all, you misspelled my name, please take the time to read it and get it right. Second, claiming you play to be different is neither an insult or is it meant to be hateful. Some people play for different reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Use the 2nd hit, and don't be a sissy about it.
This right here tells me a lot about why you think other weapons are more powerful. This is just poor fighting technique. You only go full combo if you're certain you're not going to get hit. Learn to fight properly, use the shield cancel.
I Almost feel bad telling you: I use the weapons I use, because I like them. Not for something as silly as just plain wanting to be different.
I feel silly having to explain this to you, but "because I like them" is not the reason you use them. You use them for certain reasons and you also like them for those reasons. Just saying "because I like them" is at best a cop out and doesn't explain why you like them, and at worst a blatant failure to understand your own motivations.
I sincerely like the weapon, the Gear, and the like. So tell me, Why can my Sudaruska, that I have paid the same amount as a Voltedge, or DA, be so horrid?
Across two sentences side-by-side, you claim both that you like them and they are horrid. Which is it? Do you like them, or do you not like them? If you truly liked them, you wouldn't care how terrible they are.
Shouldn't 5* be about the same, effective wise, as another 5*?
By that simple logic, a Pierce sword should be just as effective against Jellies as a Shadow sword. And no, no they shouldn't. Sudaruska/Triglav/Leviathan Blade/Valiance are general-use weapons. Against every enemy type they will perform okay, but compared to a weapon specially tailored for that enemy, they will underperform. Not because there's anything wrong with them, but because they are designed for general use. The problem is that there's always a weapon that will do better against a given enemy, because, like I said, General Use vs. Specific Use. The small power gap you're noticing is from exactly that. This is a game of exploiting resistances and weaknesses, and if you make general use weapons as effective as specialized gear, you are removing that aspect of the game. To put it another way, your Sudaruska doesn't have any particular strengths like a Combuster, but it also doesn't have any particular weaknesses like a Combuster.
The hard truth is that you DON'T have to pay as much, because you only bought one sword that works equally well against all monster families, while we bought three swords to handle each monster family separately. We pay three times as much as you to get our increased effectiveness. How is it fair to then remove that benefit, just because your general purpose sword isn't as good in every situation? If one can just grab one sword/gun/bomb and fight everything with it optimally, why would they ever buy extra swords for anything other than collecting?
@Serell
Eldibs, it looks to me you admit your Voltedge is OP, yet you want to keep it that way.
I never said that. What I did state specifically was that Voltedge was stronger than a Proto Sword. Here, this is my exact wording...
"What if someone else steps in and says that they feel a Proto Sword should be as strong as a Voltedge?"
Re-read it.
If everything is balanced, people will try to work towards everything, to change up their play with new weapons.
No, they won't. Each person will get one set of weapons they like, and use them specifically. The exception would be collectors and completionists, obviously. Speaking personally, I own all the five-star swords (except Scissors, because no thank you to that), because I like to collect them, but I still almost always run with the same small set of swords, even when other weapons will perform exactly the same (like the different Elemental Brandishes, DVS/WHB or FF/BTB). When I want to change up my gameplay, I'll switch to a different run, play LD, or switch to merchanting.
Now, with ALL of that out of the way, I will close with this - I would actually be in favor of a small SPEED buff to Triglav and Sudaruska, to bring it in line with the Sealed Sword line, since both lines are of the same weapon-style (heavy swords). The DAMAGE is right where it should be for a general-use weapon.
"@Serell
Eldibs, it looks to me you admit your Voltedge is OP, yet you want to keep it that way.
I never said that. What I did state specifically was that Voltedge was stronger than a Proto Sword. Here, this is my exact wording..."
Oh, I am sorry.
"If everything is balanced, people will try to work towards everything, to change up their play with new weapons.
No, they won't. Each person will get one set of weapons they like, and use them specifically. The exception would be collectors and completionists, obviously."
Nope.
I am pretty sure making everything balanced gives more incentive to make other things.
If there was a sword that had the same mechanics as a Divine Avenger, but with a boost of 1,000,000 damage, with no drawback, why would you make a Divine Avenger?
Besides the fact that you are a collector.
If A is obviously better than B, then optimizers will only get A.
If A and B are both balanced, then optimizers have more of a choice (Something optimizers should like).
They may even get both, because A and B work differently, so they will switch between them to change up their play.
Closing in the gap gives more incentive for optimizers to make other things.
This helps you and OOO.
You have a wider arsenal to choose from without being penalized.
OOO gets more money, because people have more incentive to make other things.
I find it rather ridiculous the things people find to complain about in this game.
Honestly, if you don't think a weapon is "fair and balanced," don't use it. Use what you like to use and have fun (this is a game meant for fun, after all). Let others use the weapons they choose. If one player dishes out a higher DPS than the other, but everyone works together as a team (*gasp!*), who cares? It's not like we get a score report at the end of PvE runs for anyone to get bragging rights.
All this talk about balancing, nerfing, buffing-- it's a lesson in futility. No matter what OOO does, someone, somewhere will find something to complain about and cry "unfair!" to the community. The silent majority will continue enjoying this game for what it is, quirks and all, no matter how much raging happens on these forums.
-Signed,
A happy brandish-wielding, status-bomb dropping, hammer-swinging Knight.
I don't think Brandishes should be nerfed. I guess my idea of fun is different from the OP's, because I enjoy building a perfect loadout to run through FSC with the least amount of difficulty. I like having awesome UVs and max damage bonuses. If I want to make things difficult, I can equip suboptimal gear. I don't need the developers to nerf Brandishes or other gear so that I can have fun.
Brandishes do not give a small group of players an unfair advantage. Any Tier 3 player can craft a 5-star Brandish or buy one from the Supply Depot.
You know, every time you complain about others, the list just keeps growing.
I had also asked to stay away from personal bashing because it detracts from the thread.
But you also happen to be one of those who finds the slightest irrelevant flaw and makes it a Gaping whole, to attempt to prove that you are mentally superior. (At least from what I see) I Now remember you completely de-railing several threads like this when I was a young newb.
But now, I refuse to acknowledge your Blatant attempts to enrage and or demean me and others.
Instead, Take this quote from a Leader of a nation.
"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will."
~Abe Lincoln
They may even get both, because A and B work differently, so they will switch between them to change up their play.
This is an assumption. Yes, some players may get both, but certainly not all of them. Probably not even close to a majority. Most players have a weapon set they like and stick with it. Many, many players wouldn't be able to get both, simply due to the cost. Also, re-read my previous post. The weapons ARE balanced. Sudaruska and Leviathan Blade are weaker against a given Brandish or Flourish against some monster families, but against others, they will massively outclass the Brandish/Flourish. You are not losing power, you're just moving it around to cover for weaknesses. Sure, your Sudaruska is weaker than DA against Undead and Constructs, but against literally all four other classes of monsters, it's better.
@Tsubasa-No-Me
Where exactly did I bash anyone? When did "pointing out the flaws in your statements" become "personal bashing?" Your entire post amounts to nothing more than "You're just saying these things to try and make me angry! I'm not going to sit here and let you prove me wrong! I'm just going to leave!" I'm calling Danth's Law ("If you have to insist that you've won an Internet argument, you've probably lost badly.") on this one. Let's see if you also go for Shaker's Law ("Those who egregiously announce their imminent departure from an Internet discussion forum almost never actually leave.")! Perhaps you'll Leave and Never Come Back?
All this talk about balancing, nerfing, buffing-- it's a lesson in futility. No matter what OOO does, someone, somewhere will find something to complain about and cry "unfair!" to the community. The silent majority will continue enjoying this game for what it is, quirks and all, no matter how much raging happens on these forums.
This.
I had a nice little block of text written here last night, but then I lost Internet.
OK, let's go to your post. I usually try to make my things a bit more readable, but I'm not going to be making a huge effort in this post.
I will be putting quotes in < em > text.
"Now back on release date for these brandishes, just like the skolver coat, skolver cap, & the blitz needle, due to adults not liking change & since back then SK was mostly populated by more mature players than today's population, the brandish line for these explosion causing weapons were highly disliked by the population of SK. It took about over a month or two for people to start liking them, since vog + GF & DA were all that were used back then. Later on damage bonus gear & the brandish lines started becoming popular & even came to par with the vog + GF & DA users. After some patches of a high boost to these weapons, the time came for the destruction of all other weapons."
Then, how come, do I see tons of sealed sword line users, leviathan blade, cutter line, and even some spur line users, not to mention several guns and bombs?
If, as you stated, "the time came for the destruction of all other weapons", then hardly anyone would use these. But that is not the case.
"Combuster is the mostly godliest weapon of all the brandish lines & if you know why I chose Combuster from all the other brandishes then you also agree that it's a true powerful weapon designed for GMs only. The brandish lines have range, knockback, flexibility(meaning no penatly for using it's charge attack at all), & status affect infliction. I can spam it all day & with CTR UV, nothing will ever touch me!!! TIME TO GET MY PROTO GEAR!! Of course I am talking about the brandishes's CHARGE ATTACKS. I have both the Glacius & Combuster & after crafting my leviathan & troika & some other swords, i just cannot believe why anyone would get other weapons when they are remotely useless & just plain out crap compared to the brandishes. I can hit multiple enemies with the brandish. It's the ultimate weapon to get. Acheron, Combuser, Glacius, & that 5* shocky brandish."
First of all, saying it's designed for only GMs is just stupid. The brandish lines do NOT have range, and their knockback is minimal. No penalty for the charge attack is an obvious do, as the sealed sword line is a "heavy" sword, while the brandishes are "light" swords, it simply makes sense.
Go ahead and spam it all day, but you must have a lot of time, because FSC's like that take about 45 minutes.
Video of you doing FSC without getting hit please? And tons of people will get other weapons, hell, the brandish is great, but doesn't clear everything.
If the brandishes were as good as you say, then no-one would use other weapons. But people doaren't as good as you say. And duh, you can obviously hit multiple enemies with your brandish, every weapon in the game can do it just as well, and some do it much more easily. It's a good weapon to get, but not "the ultimate".
"I noticed how easily I could solo any content of this game with my combsuter & glacius than I could've with my leviathan, my cutter, my troika line, & all my other non-brandish swords. I'm not even a pro player & it's just mind-blowing how easy this game is with those brandishes. Sure you all might hate me more than you do now for this, SK community, but you know what, I'm angry that I can't use any of my other favorite swords & weapons due to all my parties blowing the enemies right in front me right across the map & killing them off with out me even getting to do any of my own weapon's abilities. It shouldn't be fair that this weapon is so over powered & this game Spiral Knights can easily be solo'd if you have a 5* brandish in your arsenal."
OK, please go solo shadow lairs, vanaduke, T3 danger rooms, and T3 devilites with only brandishes. Since it is so easy, I assume you can do it?
If you want to go use your "favorite" swords, then solo, because no-one will want to wait half an hour.
"It's not that bad that the enemies got easier to fight but it doesn't really matter with this over powered weapon that can destroy them even quicker now."
Any weapon can destroy them. So some weapons can destroy them faster, holy ****, OP OMG!
I also find it hilarious that if a weapon is good, you make sure to not use it and go to some crappy weapon..lol.
Damn, am I glad I unfriended you in game..
Also, Eldibs said everything I said and better, so +1 him, great sensibility. Tsu, get a life.
Inb4 rages about personal attacks.
Huh, you used a combuster against the twins.
Don't go thinking I watched it, just scrolled to the end to see your gear.
I loved the brandish line. I was an original user when they came out since slow swords like DA & GF didn't appeal to me for gun puppies. Right now, you can easily flood spam away mobs in RJP with your 5* brandish. There is no strategy to using the brandish. When did swords become lasers!?!?!
I miss this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUMxpYLJQiM
nicoya explains this perfectly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk-AAT67PuM
I'm being an open minded player about this since I just recently crafted both my glacius & combuster. I'm not a scammer, I'm not a greedy player; you accidentally sent me 50k crs which was meant to be sent to someone else but we had similar names & it ended up on my mail. Unlike most of the SK community, i'd sen you back those crs & even message you about what just happened. I've spent money in this game, money i WAS ABLE TO USE. GREED GREED GREED. either way, nerfing the brandishes would only cause more complaints & the player base would surely go down more.
Of course I'll be getting -1 points here & even i agree because being different only gets me harassment mail which is what i'll be seeing in the future if i am to be acknowledge in this thread by the game masters.
I play this game for fun, not for profit. & I'm guessing I'm the only one who plays it this way. Of course I regret getting rid of my brandishes but you know, I don't want to have weapons that I don't need to rely on a party for.
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/HectorUribe/spiral_2011-06-15_...
People asked me a lot why i never went back to bebopx when i first left SK of last year in june. The weapons I chose back on bebop are weapons used now & are highly popular. Just like you guys are treating me now with your posts & your -1 on me, that's how I was treated back then as well. Even Magnus who know uses damage bonus gear disliked my ideals.
LIBERALS ARE +1 ME
FASCISTS ARE -1 ME
that is funny stuff.
I'm a different age generation so probably you older players -1 everything i say. Im not surprised tho, i'm thinking for the game not the player. Everyone puts themselves above others & it's why i'll never stop trolling & pushing your buttons.
EXCUSE ME, WEREN'T THERE DIABLO FANS HERE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY'RE ONLY PLAYING SPIRAL KNIGHTS UNTIL DIABLO CAME OUT? MM?
LIBERALS ARE +1 ME
FASCISTS ARE -1 ME
A) I don't think you know what either of those terms mean.
B) I'm not certain, but I think this might be enough to count for Godwin's Law.
I play this game for fun, not for profit. & I'm guessing I'm the only one who plays it this way.
No, of course nobody plays for fun. Why would you do things that are fun? (Sarcasm)
The problem is that different people have widely varying ideas of what is fun and what isn't, and you fail to understand that.
it's why i'll never stop trolling
Your opinions are no longer valid. Congratulations.
I play this game for fun, not for profit. & I'm guessing I'm the only one who plays it this way. Of course I regret getting rid of my brandishes but you know, I don't want to have weapons that I don't need to rely on a party for.
This might be your idea of fun, but it seems pretty obvious that it's not everyone's idea of fun.
I'm a different age generation so probably you older players -1 everything i say. Im not surprised tho, i'm thinking for the game not the player. Everyone puts themselves above others & it's why i'll never stop trolling & pushing your buttons.
I'm seventeen and I disagree with many of your points; I don't think age is the issue here. Also, is this a confession that this entire thread was a troll thread?
EXCUSE ME, WEREN'T THERE DIABLO FANS HERE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY'RE ONLY PLAYING SPIRAL KNIGHTS UNTIL DIABLO CAME OUT? MM?
Irrelevant.
Brandishes and (for example) Sudaruskas are very different weapons. You decided you wanted to have a Suda instead of a brandish, you decided it would be worth your time and money to make a Suda instead of a brandish. The two weapons aren't equal because they weren't meant to be equal.
If you believe that brandishes are OP, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would hazard a guess that the majority of the community would not agree with you, and would request that you did not impose your will onto others. I really don't want to see brandishes become dark retributions.
This thread proves OOO's trolling weapons have been a success.
I got the sudaruska due to me needing a sword that mobs & slow swords have that certain range when swinging that 3-swing-type swords do not. As soon as i used my glacius, i felt just invincible & was right. MAXIMUM-SAFE-DISTANCE.
No revs, when I had my combuster. Look at the comeback I made & all due to my range from the combuster.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560942745845366931/73D440C1629275FE5AE...
Afterwards:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/560942745845368935/51EEED8951B209B262E...
Are you telling me you did RJP using nothing but brandish charge attacks? That's not very efficient, and I doubt that most people do that.
Why not? It is very effective probably, it'd just be boring and slower than just mowing through them with a mixed attack.
Like how you can solo the Boss of RJP with the DR alone probably. Effective, but generally monotonous.
I use my DR AND my S.Nightblade :D
Oh, wow, RJP in a party of four. That's super hardcore right there. Reminds me of this one time, when I beat the Snarbolax. It was really hard! It took four people! We had to CE rev like three times, and I still only had like half a bar of HP afterwards.
I killed the Snarbolax with a proto sword. Better nerf proto swords.
Coming from the same community that started putting negative feedback on certain un-popular armors & weapons on the wiki for their descriptions.
Speak for yourself. I don't edit the wiki, with the exceptions of my very outdated user page, and my guild's page.
You're not alone... I play for fun as well, and it just ruins my day when my my Dancing among zombies and Sudden headshots from My Iron slug Were wiped away by a single Brandish spammer. I finally just sat down among all the zombies and did nothing for the entire rest of the run. I COULDN'T do anything because there was always an explosion where I was about to attack.
I love using things for fun. But the gap between Good and bad is too big. I don't know how many times I have to say this.
Also, Eldibs, I think its quite noble of you to defend your style of playing. But I'll defend Mine as well until SK rots in an internet in a post-apocalyptic wasteland.
You believe in yours, And I believe in mine. A much better way of presenting Our sides is to state why we like and support ours. Not Pointing out flaws to discredit the other's stance. That's what it looks like you're doing to me. I'd rather not argue over pointless, flame-inducing pieces of text. I'd like to show you my point as clearly as possible.
I don't feel we're going anywhere, Eldibs.
We just have two very different mindsets.
I believe in Tsu's way of playing, you believe in yours.
I have just grown very tired of this, and thus think we should just end it.
While I agree that defending one's playstyle is a good thing, I don't think it's fair to compare Sudaruska to Brandish. They're two different sword types, and trying to match them up seems silly to me. A better comparison would be another slow sword, like Gran Faust, though I don't think you give enough credit to Sudaruska. I did a bit of testing earlier today (not as comprehensive as I'd like, sadly), and against an enemy neutral to Shadow damage (Wolvers, in this case), at D21, with the same damage bonus for both weapons (VH from Skolver), the damage output was roughly the same. The first swing on GF was stronger, but the second swing on Sudaruska was stronger. Of course, GF has the chance to cause Curse on uncommon occasions (but only with the second swing), but my personal opinion is that Sudaruska outclasses GF against Shadow-resistant monsters, and is roughly on par with it for Shadow-neutral monsters. Basically, GF is only outright better against enemies that are weak to Shadow damage. These results are also applicable to DA, though instead of Curse, you have that charge attack, and of course, the damage type change.
So, I just want to repeat myself here - I would definitely be in favor of a minor speed buff to Sudaruska/Triglav, to bring them in line with the attack speed of GF/DA, though I feel the damage should stay right where it's at, as it's a Normal-damage weapon, and therefore is for general use. Basically, I consider it a general-use version of the Sealed Sword line, and therefore should definitely not be on par with it for enemies weak to Shadow or Elemental damage, but should be on par with it for neutral targets. Of course, if you'd like, the two of us could test the damage numbers together sometime (I assume your Sudaruska is heated to level 10, and I can just take off my Skolver armor), gather some screenshots of the numbers, and figure out exactly how much difference there is in damage. If it does in fact turn out that Sudaruska does less damage on both swings against a neutral target, then yes, I'd be in support of a small damage boost to Sudaruska, but just to bring it in-line with the damage against neutral targets (i.e. if GF does 300 damage against a Wolver, then Sudaruska should as well).
Also, I'd like to note that the damage-scaling seems a bit wonky for split-damage weapons. They don't seem to scale at the same rate as pure-damage weapons, though I admit that this also needs more testing.
Edit: It occurs to me that this sounds a tad bit less nice than I intended. I mean no offense, and I would really like to do more comprehensive testing on this.
You're not alone... I play for fun as well, and it just ruins my day when my my Dancing among zombies and Sudden headshots from My Iron slug Were wiped away by a single Brandish spammer. I finally just sat down among all the zombies and did nothing for the entire rest of the run. I COULDN'T do anything because there was always an explosion where I was about to attack. I love using things for fun. But the gap between Good and bad is too big. I don't know how many times I have to say this.
\apologizes to all the newbies out there for my selfishness in RJP
Tsu talks of wise words right here. Now, full party of brandish only players charge attacking in FSC = OOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPP
/end of thread
Welp, time for another vacation from the forums, be seeing you all.
OK, so at this point, I have seen a thread about the need to nerf every good weapon I own. Seriously guys? No, please no.
Well, where is the FSC solo from D24 to D29 without anything other then a brandish and no deaths?
I find it funny that you skipped my post, lol.
and Sudden headshots from My Iron slug Were wiped away by a single Brandish spammer.
woah woah, kill stealing? Is this call of duty? You know this is a cooperative multiplayer? right? doesn't matter who gets the kill, there is no difference in heat or crowns dropped. You find your party annoying? Go solo, find better friends (some people lets those with mediocre gear take some kills, you know) or uninstall the game.
TL;DR: OP falls to understand what specialization means, wants the normal-damage weapons to be as good as specialized without having disadvantages.
"Bombs aren't worth it as much"
I have to disagree. A Vortex is great with another guy's AoA, Shivermist, VT, AP/Sent charge, Alchemer charge, Blitz charge, Nitro, BAB, DBB, Dark Ret, Brandish charge (no matter how many explosions there are), FF charge, Suda charge, Triglav charge, DA charge, GF charge, Levi charge, FoV charge, Biohazard charged enemy... even a Polaris spammer will wipe the floor with a group of enemies in a Vortex. Works with most mobs that don't have a shield (insert angry grumbling about Mortafires).
Plus, RSS is pretty awesome. I'm confident I can out damage a DA-wielding Vog Cub in FSC, if I tried hard enough. And have I ever shown you how I kite mobs of Mecha Knights with my Ash of Agni? (Okay, it's still just a Fiery Atomizer as of yet, but it packs a punch anyway.)
Edit: And that particular post is now separated by loads of other posts. Oops.
To those saying their weapons cant be nerfed, just because you bought CE to make the weapons doesn't mean OOO wont nerf them, besides you bought CE, not the weapons directly with money. They could nerf them to uselessness if they wanted. Besides, people bought the DLC missions and they nerfed the bomb that you pretty had to buy with money since it cant be crafted or traded.
Its not the damage or gameplay (Well, sort of gameplay) we're looking at here... -.-
You forgot one important thing. GF and all sealed swords go FASTER.
Look at the Damage at D24....
Suda:
1st 241
2nd 297
GF:
1st 241 (lol, the same)
2nd 331 (Oh look, MORE damage, And Curse, as well as being faster.)
So, from a forum post from Darkbrady, when I was still a noob, I learned that the Sealed sword's First hit took .8 secs, while the Suda's took .9 secs... But that second hit took MUCH longer.
So I'm about to attempt getting the 2nd swing data from the lancer knights data...
Here goes... (Note that I'm using the calculator to keep the largest available repeating Number for accuracy)
..
Lancer knight data says the Suda can complete 28 combo's at ASI med...
60(seconds given)/28 = 2.1428571428571428571428571428571 seconds for one combo.
2.1428571428571428571428571428571 - .9 = 1.2428571428571428571428571428571
So the Suda's Second hit takes 1.2428571428571428571428571428571 seconds to complete...
..
Lancer knight data says the GF can complete 31 combo's in 60 seconds...
60/31 = 1.9354838709677419354838709677419
1.9354838709677419354838709677419 - .8 = 1.1354838709677419354838709677419
So the second swing takes 1.1354838709677419354838709677419
..
Now for some easy to read %'s...
GF VS. Suda; 1st swing
.9/.8=112.5% or 12.5% faster then Suda
GF VS. Suda; Second swing
1.2428571428571428571428571428571/1.1354838709677419354838709677419=109.45616883116883116883116883117% or about 9.5% faster the Suda
GF VS. Suda; whole combo
2.1428571428571428571428571428571/1.9354838709677419354838709677419=110.71428571428571428571428571429% faster, or about 10.7% faster then Suda on average.
..
Now for DPS...
Suda; First swing
241 damage in .9 secs
241/.9=267.77777777777777777777777777778
Suda; Second swing
297/1.2428571428571428571428571428571=238.9655172413793103448275862069
Suda; Combo
538/2.1428571428571428571428571428571=251.06666666666666666666666666667
GF, first swing
241/.8=301.25
GF; second swing
338/1.1354838709677419354838709677419=297.67045454545454545454545454545
GF; Combo
579/1.9354838709677419354838709677419=299.15
..
DPS debate now...
GF VS Suda; 1st hit DPS
301.25/267.77777777777777777777777777778=112.59336099585062240663900414938% or 12.6% more DPS then Suda
GF VS Suda; 2nd hit DPS
297.67045454545454545454545454545/238.9655172413793103448275862069=124.56627967991604355240718877082% or about 24.6% more DPS then Suda
GF VS Suda; Combo
299.15/251.06666666666666666666666666667=119.15161975570897503983005841742% or about 19.2% more DPS then Suda
__________________________
TL;DR?
Here's the short version:
GF Raw damage:
1st 0% more Damage then Suda
2nd 13.8% more Damage then Suda
Combo 7.6% more Damage then Suda
GF Speed:
1st 12.5% faster then Suda
2nd 9.5% Faster then Suda
Combo 10.7% Faster then Suda
GF DPS: (Not raw damage)
1st 12.6% more DPS then Suda
2nd 24.6% more DPS then Suda
Combo 19.2% more DPS then Suda
GF Effectiveness against Fiends and Undead: (Little lazy here... I'm tired :P)
360/1.9354838709677419354838709677419= 186 DPS (Exactly :O )
251.06666666666666666666666666667/186= 1.3498207885304659498207885304659% or the Suda is 35% more effective then a GF on 1/3 of the monsters you'll find.
This means that if you have a GF and a Suda equipped, the only time the Suda is useful is against those Fiends and Undead. ALL other times the GF will deal 19.2% more DPS, which is like hitting a vulnerable monster.
And you know what? If you're carrying 2 Heavy swords anyways, why the heck not get a DA? It will essentially deal critical hits on everything that the Suda would be used for, and Even more on HALF the things that it would be used for, Undeads.
And consider this: the DA VS Combustor/Glacious/Voltedge and GF VS Acheron both show up frequently. Why? Because it is genuinely hard to choose between them. That means the Brandish lines are at the same level as the DA.
Normal weapons are simply outclassed in all but a few areas, and even then... If you are bringing two DIFFERENT weapons, then why not bring a GF and a Argent Peacemaker? The GF, due it its mechanics allow it to Kill beasts, gremlins, slimes, and Constructs with ease. The AP shreds Undead, constructs, All turrets, Slimes, and its large clip, fast firing speed, range, bullet speed, and mobility let it kill all forms of fiend.
So there is LITERALLY No Legitimate Reason To Use A Normal Damage Weapon.
EDIT: Not to mention the GF can curse on 2nd swing.
If you're telling me that brandish charge-users are a problem for you because they kill enemies faster than you do, then you're doing something wrong. I can honestly not believe that a single brandish user managed to kill all of your targets with charge attacks alone, and even if they were aggressive with regular attacks as well, there should be plenty of room for you to rack up your kills. (For whatever it's worth.)
If you're being bugged by a player that outperforms you in the clockworks, then that simply means that...they're a better player than you.
In the case this player has a sloppy playstyle and relies entirely on charge attacks, and you still suffer the same problem then I am sorry to say that you do not deserve my sympathy. Up your own game instead.
Brandishes had a terrible charge attack before their patch, making only the actual melee hit useful for anything. After the patch, they got a bigger blast radius and much more range, which was welcomed.
Yeah, they are now slightly more powerful than previously, but they aren't game-breaking. The only thing they'd have over a sealed sword-line charge attack is that its ranged damage isn't nullified when your character is against a wall.
Nerf the brandish damage, turn them to heavy swords and make its charge like the troika line... Im sure nobody will use it :D