Spiral Knights - These GM weapons must either get nerfed or gotta go!

These GM weapons must either get nerfed or gotta go!

147 replies [Last post]

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 22:50

#101

Noomad

I'll just peek in real quick...

I like the Suda charge, it's fun to one shot things with it that you can't do with a 2 hit combo as cleanly. the charge has a big radius and hits twice and throws things across the map. It's a fun weapon.

Tho yea, a speed boost to match the sealed line would be really nice :D

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 23:36

#102

Tsubasa-No-Me

...Shidara...

Did you read the above?

Also, I'll have a video Up soon enough... -.- The point I'm trying to make, is that even with good skills, despite your doubt of mine, they can outperform other, not-"best" weapons to the point of making them do almost nothing.

And "not game-breaking" is quite subjective: Compared to the DA and the other good weapons its not a game breaker, but a nice balance. But compared to everything else, its surly a gamebreaker.

Also, have you read the post above you? There is some solid math just waiting to show you something.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 04:43

#103

Thunderbog

Please.

Stop arguing with those brandish charges already! If ye want to nerf that sword I'll rather have Three Rings create a special sword without a charge attack and WHACK THE CRAP HELL OUT OF PEOPLE ALREADY.

If ye know it's the best sword in the game, USE IT ALREADY. Stop bragging about something that is already 50% BALANCED.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 05:57

#104

Bedboil

jeez

some people need to put a tl;dr lol.
BUT PLEASE
DO NOT NERF THE BRANDISH LINE

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 06:01

#105

Asukalan

Yes, do not nerf brandish,

Yes, do not nerf brandish, just make it like other swords charges so when you are next to a wall your charge dissapears.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 09:01

#106

Sirenblue

Actually...

Fix the other swords. The wall-hugging bug only exists because of projectile-based attacks.
I believe brandish charges have extra code to have the monsters behave as if it were a projectile. Either that, or it uses a ghost bullet as a guide to mark out explosions, and that saves extra code for bullet behaviour.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 09:17

#107

Asukalan

And all brandishes should

And all brandishes should totally have that AMAZING feature that makes WHOLE charge dissapear AT ANY place of map when you are playing lockdown, so they will be as amazing as DA.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 09:22

#108

Sirenblue

Wow, uhh...

Gotta make a DA to see for myself. Maybe that might be the reason why I don't usually see people using DA charges in LD. ._.

Edit: if it's done on purpose, then yeah, go ahead and nerf brandishes in LD. ._.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 09:37

#109

Shidara

Yeah.

I did read the above. My response? Not convinced that it somehow makes you an obsolete party member. Quit excusing yourself with numbers if you can't play, and if you can, outplay them. It is that simple. If brandish users really "ruin" your game, then stop playing with them. I find this thread pointless, so I'm not coming back again. Feel free to leave me a reply that I won't read, though!

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 10:55

#110

Whimsicality

Want some cheese to go with your whine?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 11:57

#111

Eldibs

You forgot one important

You forgot one important thing. GF and all sealed swords go FASTER.

*headdesk*

Did you even read what I wrote (twice)? Here, let me copy it for you...

I will close with this - I would actually be in favor of a small SPEED buff to Triglav and Sudaruska, to bring it in line with the Sealed Sword line

So, I just want to repeat myself here - I would definitely be in favor of a minor speed buff to Sudaruska/Triglav, to bring them in line with the attack speed of GF/DA

You forgot one important thing - to actually read my post before jumping to conclusions and building a straw man to argue against. I even offered to go on a run with you so we could test the damage numbers personally (rather than rely on old and possibly outdated information). But, since you're not going to even go through the trouble of reading what I wrote, I'm just going to assume you have nothing relevant to say and not go through the trouble of reading anything else you write. Good day, sir!

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:30

#112

Infidelslayer

Stay a while and Listen!

Ladies and Gentlemen, get your reading glasses on because THIS is my biggest post yet!

As a proud owner of Glacius and Voltedge I must admit that the elemental brandishes, especially the Combuster, are a bit too powerful.

This weapon’s main strength is having a good chance of inflicting strong status. In most other weapons we see that any weapon that causes status are weaker than the weapon of the same class that doesn’t inflict any status in terms of raw damage. But the Knock-back mechanism of brandish explosion causes a target to “ride with the wave”, delivering ridiculous amount of damage. What’s even more amusing is that using Glacius and Voltedge on a freeze and shock immune enemies respectively will do the same damage as the Combuster. More or less defeating the purpose of having two brandishes of different status (unless it’s a slime level).

But the suggestion I read in this thread like removing the explosion, this will NEVER happen. My reason is from the description of the weapon itself. Here is one for the Combuster:

“Combining the principles of the Skylark's engines with the technology powering the Blast Furnace produced this brutal blade, which can ignite even the most flame-retardant materials at a distance”.

Notice the word “distance”? This is the real description of this weapon. Should OOO remove it and change the above mentioned statement now, the community will blame them for deception and well…things will not look pretty.

So the solution is to alter the explosion mechanism. I currently have four suggestions:

1) Reduce the explosion damage. This will encourage people to get the main hit of the blade instead of relying on its ranged capability to kill a target.

2) Change the knock-back mechanism. Instead of making a target “ride with the wave” let the explosion push aside a group of monster as if it is cutting a straight path for its own. Here the overall DPs is reduced, You get better escape routes while inflicting status.

3) Remove the knock-back. But that can make Glacius OP.

4) Reduce the explosion radius.

Now about the brandish being a “GM weapon” or “Invincible”, I strongly disagree. Brandishes and DA shares similar weaknesses. They are described below:

1) Mecha knights. They will completely block the brandish explosion and DA projectiles. Try using any one of them in T3 arena.

2) In a room full of traps where your mobility is restricted you will have a hard time using the charged attack properly. FSC or KoA, depth 27, last room is one of the best examples.

3) In a small room or in a room full of obstacles, brandish explosion and DA projectile will not reach its maximum range hence will not reach its full potential.

4) Both the brandish and DA charge is terrible against turrets and knock-back immune enemies like Trojans and Slag guards.

Whew…did I miss anything?

Wait...

You sold your brandishes Kitty? Oh well...your choice.

P.S: I have an idea regarding the stats for Wolver armor. Should I post it in the existing “Nerf the Wolver Line” thread or make a new one?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 13:08

#113

Whimsicality

Just because a certain weapon isn't suited to your tastes means a company has to change it for absolutely everyone.

Grow up.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 13:17

#114

Serell

Whimsicallity...

That meme was not funny.
At all.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 13:18

#115

Rangerwillx

lol. If anyone thinks that the brandish is going to be nerfed, you're just not very smart. Sorry.
Because this thread is pointless. Even if the brandish is nerfed, which won't happen, everyone would switch to DA.
Period. End of story. It won't be nerfed. Ever.
If it is, I'll personally mail each and every one of you who wants the brandish nerfed 500 CE.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 13:34

#116

Eldibs

It won't be nerfed.

It won't be nerfed. Ever.

This. Of course, the indicator for this being the fact that it has been previously buffed, as in, the opposite of nerfed. Why would they buff it to where it is and then nerf it back down? That makes no sense.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:01

#117

Tsubasa-No-Me

You know what?

All I see in this thread are word-mongers and silver tongues, fighting to keep their weapons on top.

It disgusts me.

I point out very clearly many points, even going through math to form something that you can't break down. And all I see is people ignoring that to push their own points. That is self inflicted ignorance.

inb4eldibstrytostabmewithwords

I did read ALL of your posts, the "straw man" you speak of is there to prove to you that not JUST the suda is under-powered, that the Brandishes are in the same category as the SS lines.

You said that you'd buff the suda to be on par, right? with that you just said that the DA is better then the Suda, and that it needs a buff, right? Well, as ALSO stated in that post, the DA VS Brandish threads occur often because it's like choosing between two banana's. One of them is longer, and the other one is fatter. They both have the same amount of banana, just displayed differently. The other gear that simply sucks ATM are like midget bananas.

The Brandish then is up there on top, so, why would you NOT want the other ear to be buffed to be on par? OR, nerfed to be on par. It is literally the same end effect: They are all now banana's with same amount of banana.

TL;DR?
I'm sick of the whiners whining at the "whiners" (Or people that would like some balance)
Eldibs actually WANTS balance! GASP! And I don't get why he's fighting one of the two possible routes to get there.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:06

#118

Grandiloquent

They buffed these weapons,

They buffed these weapons, they are not going to nerf them after people spent hundreds of thousands of ce to make them.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:09

#119

Eldibs

I said good day!

Yeah, I didn't read any of that. Just thought I'd let you know you wasted your time typing it. You're incapable of reading or properly responding to my arguments, you shout the same thing over and over, so I'm returning the favor by refusing to read your posts.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:14

#120

Tsubasa-No-Me

LOL

Ditto to you. I really don't care about your "good day" because you essentially shouted the same thing- just in different words.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:17

#121

Slayzz

I think people who spent

I think people who spent their hundred thousands of CE on their DA CtR VH ASI VH are getting jealous. If OOO nerfed the Brandishes, it would just make their image worse, and make them look like amateurs who don't know what they are doing. Showing decisiveness makes you look better, which is why ooO won't nerd brandishes after giving them a buff.

They are balancing this game, though. The buff to the sudaruska and other hipster weapons portrays this. I'm willing to bet their next major change is going to deal with guns/bombs in some way, unless they don't realize that bombers and gunners are slightly less developed than switches in terms of armor and weapons.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:28

#122

Infidelslayer

What a waste of time.

This thread now looks like mud slinging between the two camps; one who wants to nerf the brandish and others who don't.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:35

#123

Flists

The problem with nerfing a

The problem with nerfing a banana so that it contains the same amount of banana as the other bananas is that it makes the monkeys that enjoy that banana angry because now they have less banana. Why not share the love and increase the amount of banana in the inferior banana so that everyone is happy?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:41

#124

Infidelslayer

Hmm....

@Flists

You mean like increasing the range of the Cutter swing to match the FF/BTB range?

There are people who love to use Cutter, both in PvP and PvE.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:57

#125

Tsubasa-No-Me

Bananas :3

Because the banana tree is too small... :C W'ed need to grow a bigger tree to do that.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:02

#126

Flists

In the context of the actual

In the context of the actual subject of this thread, what does that^ mean?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:05

#127

Trying

If it is, I'll personally mail each and every one of you who wants the brandish nerfed 500 CE.
I'll hold you accountable for that

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:10

#128

Infidelslayer

Stay a while and Listen!

Now it has become a "Banana Thread"

*da-da-dishhh*

*cricket chirping*

Infidelslayer is sad.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:18

#129

Serell

mhm

I'll hold you accountable as well, rangerwill

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:47

#130

Kitty-Softpaws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUdsjASXG0&feature=related

Fehzor, Serell, SUUDDAA girl(Tsu), & as well as other people who somewhat gave me a +1, are the guy who has hair/goku. Everyone else who are -1 this are the bald guy. So, who's side are you on? Are you Krirrin or are you Goku?

& obviously, I'm going to favor Goku! C:(yes i am that crazy old fool with blue hair dancing & singing)

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:56

#131

Kitty-Softpaws

Another perfect way to

Another perfect way to EXPLAIN this thread is this other video. Me & my supporters are the girl with blue hair & everyone else who dislike this idea are vegeta/the guy who tells us to shut up. Everyone else who's neutral (meaning you gave us a -1 & a +1) are the stereotyping guy at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGdZQK6KEWk

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:46

#132

Tsubasa-No-Me

lolol

I'm also the one chuckling at the end... >:3

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 04:59

#133

Asukalan

Who says anythin about

Who says anythin about nerfing brandishes???? ALL WE NEED is to give them those amazing features the DA has to make them even more cool!! Imagine it. Brandish with charge attack:
- that dissapears when you are standing next to a wall
- that dissapears ALWAYS when you use it in LD

Im so sad that poor brandish users cant experience those ultimate features that DA users share from ages. I feel like brandish users are cheated because of that, because they cant use those two ultimate features.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 05:01

#134

Shue-Donnym

No subject line spam here, move along

Alaskalan auto-wins this thread.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 06:22

#135

Infidelslayer

Hmm....

Now this thread mutated into "pick a Dragon Ball Z character" thread.

*facepalm*

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 08:21

#136

Serell

...

"Fehzor, Serell, SUUDDAA girl(Tsu), & as well as other people who somewhat gave me a +1, are the guy who has hair/goku. Everyone else who are -1 this are the bald guy. So, who's side are you on? Are you Krirrin or are you Goku?"

I don't like Goku :c
I want to be Spider-Man!

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 08:22

#137

Serell

Also...

TSUUUDAAAAAAAA

...Because it's fun to say.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:48

#138

Softhead

-_-

Krillin?

No, the don't nerfers are Nappa.

GHOST NAPPA.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 17:40

#139

Shue-Donnym

No subject line spam here, move along

I AM ROBO-DUDE, ANOTHER GREAT PRODUCT FROM YOUR FRIENDS AT DR. WONDERTAINMENT

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 22:21

#140

Doctorspacebar

SUNSHAAAAAAAAARDS

I'm inventing a new meme and thought I'd apply it to the Brandishes!

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 23:33

#141

Servitor

My .02

I happen to use a Glacius, which as we all know has the "worst" charge for damaging due to the time delay on it. However, I don't spam charge attacks (except against the zombie hordes in FSC). I use my charge as a utility freeze to keep mobs from sneaking up and taking nice little chunks out of my hindquarters.

Now while the base charge rates on a brandish are faster than those of a DA or GF, I think that a DA charge spammer is far more annoying than a brandish charge spammer if only because DA has far more knockback. I see a lot more DAs in my runs than I do brandishes, and even when I do see a brandish they aren't the ones throwing zombies and Lumbers at me from across the room.

I agree with Shidara that the pre-buff charge for brandishes was next to useless since even with a 5* Combuster you had a chance to get no explosions at all, and stacked on top of that the explosion might not even proc a status.

I should also mention that while brandish charges are blocked by chest high walls, DA/GF charges act like projectiles and therefore are NOT blocked by walls, meaning that you can use a DA/GF as a ranged weapon, something that the brandishes lack.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 23:35

#142

Servitor

Also

+1 to Doctorspacebar for excellent use of the Recon Cloak meme

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 01:42

#143

Tsubasa-No-Me

I've Got one!

How about letting the brandishes suffer from the Cutter/Winmillion fault: if you attack or shield too fast, the Explosions/disk/extra swing don't appear.

What? You lost safety? Welcome to where all the other players play.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 02:17

#144

Draycos

herp derp i am in this thread now

All that needs to happen for Brandishes and DAs to be balanced is to severely reduce the damage of their projectiles, but keeping the knockback (and the status on brandishes). That way, they can be good all-around for survival due to blowing things back with the charge, but other weapons will shine more than them in terms of damage.

An alternative instead of using something simple like the Cutter/Winmillion bug or the projectiles-explode-if-hugging-wall bug or a flat damage nerf would be to reduce the amount of times an enemy can take damage from the projectiles. Albeit much more complicated than just nerfing the damage, it wouldn't completely change the weapons.

Brandishes could keep their AoE, but only two explosions should deal damage to a particular monster before it becoming immune to the rest of the explosions in that charge at that given time. Divine Avengers' bullets should hit anything twice before exploding on the spot, so the bullets keep their range and potential against some huge enemies, but aren't so powerful against massive groups of enemies where they literally blow the entire twenty enemies to the wall, punching through Mecha Knight shields and carrying them as well.

Brandish and Sealed lines are 'utility' weapons, okay, fine. Said 'utility' weapons shouldn't be godlike in comparison to non-'utility' weapons.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:47

#145

Asukalan

LOL, not only Divine Avenger

LOL, not only Divine Avenger bugged, but some people even suggest ANOTHER nerf to it?

Its ridicolous.

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:57

#146

Draycos

If you mean PvP, I meant that post more for PvE. The charge attacks are relatively balanced in PvP, leave you open and deal heavy damage, but I've never heard of this issue in Lockdown where the DA charges don't work at all... That should get fixed.

I probably never heard about or encountered it because I haven't played Lockdown in months...

Wed, 05/30/2012 - 09:22

#147

Saberyoko

-1

Nerf the Brandish lines will not solve the problem...
Every weapon have your own hole on this game...offensive, defensive, supportive...its all your choices.

Problem about "safe"? Its a game...solve it or deal with it...

Search

These GM weapons must either get nerfed or gotta go!