Don't you people understand? this game is about having fun no matter what rank you are, not about trying to get a higher rank or weapon ALL THE TIME.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg5SwyTvAHw

But in a nutshell it would mainly involve the crafting being able to be done without using energy.

As for the grinding problem, you can read this thread: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/62811

Mind to tell me how it's wrong? And please try to keep it short, I'm tired of reading walls of text.

How much does it then? Surely it cannot be the equivalent as FSC. Better yet, I'll just do a run and prove you wrong.

EDIT: Got the results!
1st level: 919cr
2nd level: 1502cr
Boss run: 480cr
Result of the whole run: 2901cr (including boss); 2421(not including boss)
And back there I wasn't counting the boss, so there you have it, 2421 cr. And you're telling me I was wrong?
Andif you were just trolling, congrats, you actually made me put all this effort to prove I was right.

There is something you get at the end of boss runs called "tokens". Have you heard that they can be traded in?

I think 3.5kcr every 5 runs is more than enough to make a dent in your calculations

Compared to FSC, that's just a tiny tip. And if you do the math, 3,5K/5 = 0,7K, which adding to the boss would just be a meager 1,1K. Which is about the average of the 1st and 2nd rooms, so why even bother with it? Sure it can be faster to clear the boss than the 2 rooms, but it still wouldn't make much of a difference... And I just meant 50 runs without facing the king of jelly. Even with it and reducing a fair bit of those runs, the game still is a grindfest for tier 2.

@Lightyourfire
This is for you: http://bit.ly/PGEfyw

Last time I checked there were TWO T2 bosses.

@Trying stop selling your CE at 8.5k each. yea, your that transparent.

OOO got a big problem. It way over their heads now, can't throw a curve ball without pissing off the P2P community. the extra energy packs and promos does not lower the price, it just makes the Seller sell it at same price and make MORE money. Lower the payout per level is probably the only option. They can't take away the missions, it something that will look bad if they remove. Lower the crafting prices will get alot of players of all sort angry, because we wasted so and so to get so and so and it was worth so and so and you cant make its worth drop to so and so. So the best option, right now, is to make most of the levels have roughly the same payout. It's your option if you want to keep grinding on fun-less levels or have difficulty spelunking on challenging levels.
actually i thought of an another idea of payout. All monsters have a specific loot that comes out of them. Non dangerous monsters drop less that challenging monsters.

“There is a very fine line between loving games and being greedy for it.”

But it could potentially make grinding for the f2pers even worse.

Best way would be to both reduce the income and aswell the crafting costs on the CE part. That way, CE prices could go lower due to lower demand since people are unable to gather crowns as fast, while lowering aswell the grinding, since there will be less need for the energy.

And before someone starts saying 3rings/SEGA will lose money with this, the idea would also make the CE purchases with real money a better deal, since with 2 dollars (750CE), and assuming the CE costs to craft a 5* weapon is cut to half, you could craft TWO weapons instead of just one, given you can use at least half a mist tank.

Speak to some F2P, and ask them if they had spent money on games.
I'm sure they will tell their stories.

I've been watching this thread for about 2 hours and it is still going on, ranting, mumbling, arguing.
I don't wish everyone to argue with economy issues, even now it is at the rate of extra work.

Therefore, I won't speak anything about CE stuffs, yet I have to mention few more things, if anyone are still willing to know the history of the CE again, use the search bar and think again. Is it worth to create a thread just to let Three Rings pay attention to the economy issues, or just to complain to nobody about economy issues?

Like Mr. Popovich said, the CE market is driven by the players, they can't do anything about it. They are even trying to make the newcomers to spend energies with REASONS.

I am a F2P player, and I know that after Steam introduced Spiral Knights, the CE price for 100 was 3400 crowns each. We know that how it goes. But it was unexpected that the market has went up too far.

I shan't bother with ye all anymore, lest that I don't wish to create trouble either.

Clearly you did not see what happened to the shard bomb changes.

Lowering the payout of levels and reducing crafting costs is dumb. It'll be cheaper, but be harder to get.

Energy prices will go down of course, but you'll still have to grind more to buy it since the goddman payout has been reduced. Also, P2P will adjust too, and buy less energy since it wont be needed as much, wich also means less $$$ for OOO.

Example:

Vanaduke gives 8k
Energy is at 8k
1 vanaduke = 100ce

You reduce payouts:
Vanaduke gives 5k
Energy goes down to 5k
1 vanaduke = 100ce

Same thing, different numbers. Wont impact energy market, but everythign else, in a bad way (more grinding to roll UVs, buy recipes, etc).

Actually, as juances points out, people will spend less $ on CE if price of CE goes down. As less CE enters the market the price of CE rises. It is possible (but none of us really know) that lowing the payout will only lead to having to grind twice as much for the same CE.

Some people forget that FSC was paying out rediculous amounts (I think like 12-3kcr + tokens) when they first released the mission system. CE prices did temporarily drop (but not by much) when they fixed it, but they are still at ~8.5kcr now. Also, there were was a lot of raging when FSC was returned to normal. I could understand if FSC was nerfed, but it was really just returned to normal (like back when CE was 5kcr/100ce).

Also, if you are grinding the 1st two stages of RJP, then expand your horizens a bit. Also, 100ME a day is enough for ~2 hours of gameplay (on average) of pure profit. After you use that profit up, you can still make various runs and break even and have fun. Also, in your calculations you are ignoring selling mats, which can be quite profitable. shards are typically worth 30-100cr and are easy to flip. Monster Bones are typically an easy 150-200cr. I can easily go through my materials list and sell 20kcr worth of materials in a few minutes of posting (plus waiting 1-2 days for them to sell). Those dirt cheap mats that sell for 5cr each and aren't worth your time to sell, you can easily sell them in bulk. I sold like 1k ecto drops and for some strange reason someone wanted to buy it. 5kcr is better than 1k ecto drops in my opinion.

Instead of just looking at the raw CR output and crying while grinding away on the same two stages, try doing something about it with a few minutes of effort and actually enjoying the game. You can easily increase the speed you'll hit 4* armor/weapons and try new environments at the same time.

The game would feel less repetitive if the most efficient thing wasn't running the same boss stratum that has the same layout every time.

Regarding Energy Prices, it's simply the value of F2P versus P2P. The more of one that happens, the more incentive you have to do the other. It's how the system was built, they didn't envision there to be a fixed number/price as people keep calling for. They want us to set the rate, and this is what we've collectively set it at for now.

"the extra energy packs and promos does not lower the price, it just makes the Seller sell it at same price and make MORE money. "

This is false. CE drops significantly every time there's a promo--more if the promo is popular (like Nemesis).

Trying, since you're in an argument in this thread, I'll use this way to communicate to you. Why is it that you say that a sleep max proto sheild doesn't exist, what proof do you have to back that statement?

So you are implying something shouldn't be done about it? Very mature...

@Laightyourfire
Perhaps it's because sleep is no longer obtainable by Punch?

...Am I the only one here who doesn't complain about the CE prices?

And Delt, I know Sleep can no longer be obtained from Punch, but was it ever obtainable? If it was, than there is a chance a Sleep Max Proto Shield could exist

If you don't like it, raise the price and watch what happens.

At ~11K per 100 ce, farming jelly king becomes unprofitable.
At ~23K per 100 ce, farming fire storm citadel becomes unprofitable.
At ~25K per 100 ce, farming arenas becomes unprofitable.

If you want to fix it, you'll need a lot of people on your side. How do you get them there? By making it so that they are in the same boat as you, by raising the price of CE and keeping it there.

you guys seem confused and frustrated .... if you raise the ce price up to 11k 23k 25k, who would play this game?.... besides it will never happen since people cant buy it at that price or sellers will just hold on the ce for themselves in case they need to use it or something.

i rather complain about getting new content and significant bugs than the ce price.

The problem with these threads is that they pretty much ignore the idea that you're supposed to want CE and that it's supposed to be valuable, which is a pretty critical concept that this game is built on. If you really want to address the CE prices you can't go about it in any way that directly makes CE less valuable. You need to make crowns less valuable instead.

Stockpile crowns and wait till an actually good CE promo hits (Jesus, OOO, that hunter promo was horrid), buy energy once the price drops. Wait again. Repeat.