Spiral Knights - Some venting from players.

Some venting from players.

50 replies [Last post]

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 10:18

Fight-Men

So here I am again, to complain on another update that corrected only a few things that are relevant for good and fluid gameplay.
I speak not only for me but for some friends and guidlmates alike.

We cannot deny the credit on OOO for correcting the stun and spawn problem, and some other minor bugs. But that's the problem, OOO is only focused on correcting minor bugs like: loadout duplication when equiping one, firo driver fire status in tooltip, like Miracle Cloak Recipe now requires the right ammount of light shards (as if those were very difficult to obtain if the recipe is more expensive on them)... So i ask: how are this bug fixes going to improve gameplay?

I wonder for how many time will everyone be so happy with this "awesome update" as many call it... Complaints will come again.

But no...
The game continues the same thing.

Seems some huge bugs don't concern developers, bugs I have seen reported here on the forums almost 6 months ago; and until this day a fix to them has not been seen.

LD IS unbalanced as hell (its not the battle for skill: its the battle for who has more trinkets, UVs and spammable weapons); having a bad, good, great or bombastic computer to play this game doesn't matter, you will lag and freeze on them all; there are delays on the shield that are not caused by network problems; the spear of the knights from Legion Of Almire is OP; DA/GF/AP and many other weapons have bugs on the charge attack; missions that need a rework; Shields have bugs; etc... Well, if I enumerated every aspect that need a rework we would stay here all day/night long.

Speaking again of LD:
Are you afraid of Strikers, OOO? Let me tell you, I'm mainly a striker , but I like to play other classes. And I would not mind that LD was balanced, in fact I would apreciate that a lot! As I see when someone goes Recon or Guardian in a team full of Strikers, those people are the scapegoat for hating and joking for not using the Striker class.
Now some advice for the players too: Just because he/she's not using the same gear as everyone or some "pre-established-comunity-gear" doesn't mean the he/she sucks or is stupid! Get over your gear stereotypes!!

Many! Many players found SOLUTIONS for almost every problem in this game, yet it seems the devs like to ignore them and keep bringing us loads of useless things.

But of course the game is completely fine to that group of players that have everything... As long as they keep pwning other players in LD and keep pwning everything in the clockworks: the game is perfect to them. I wonder what will happen if that is fixed! I can imagine the hate they will bring down to the forums and perhaps to the players that came up with the solutions.

Now, this so called "Dark Harvest Festival" stopped the complaints for a bit. But as a user on the forum said some time ago: OOO just brings more and more vanity items to the game instead of focusing and improving real game problems!
I believe the strategy OOO uses here is: many players are complaining about something wrong in the game, let us give them a promotion full of costumes and showoff items so they will be happy and distracted with that for some time.
Even the items that come in the boxes are items that had already existed for a long time on SK, but to make them look like a new wonder they just changed the colours on them... And thats pretty low.

I've been hearing for a long time that OOO was working on something big. But if that "big something" was the Dark Harvest Festival; then, sigh... All hope is lost. In my opinion the biggest thing OOO could do is make a fix that corrects all the bugs and gameplay problems.

I got nothing against costumes and items like that... But when they become a priority over the quality of the game, that is just plain wrong. Since when a dapper combo will make the animation of the mobs more synchronized? Some wings will be making Java less resource hungry? An aura is going to improve framerate? Scarfs will remove the charge attack bug?

I saw on the forums someone "complaining" about a user comparing this game to TF2.
Why not compare this game to TF2? Yes, they are not the same style, but... TF2 is BALANCED in PvP, a thing that SK is not even close to be, at least on LD!
TF2 runs very smoothly in a low-end computer, does SK? NO!
TF2 has better framerates, less freezes and much better graphics than SK, while runing on low-end PCs... So where's the problem here? I guess the excuse "your computer sucks" won't work anymore. The answer for this is quite obvious!
TF2 is free, SK too... So?
Please, one thing is ignoring, another is making us look like stupid people.

Like everyone said (including me), this game is a Masterpiece, and yet you manage to deny to bring this game to its full glory, by making this you would gain more players (translating: more money) and could easily get above your competitors. And many that have stood supporting OOO with the hope that real improvements were made to the game, they will now keep their wallets closed, like me.
The other game producers might be laughing at this game. Many resources that the game could benefit from, are wasted.

I'm not gonna start threatning, like some users, that I'll stop playing this game, as I like it very much. If find it to be quite fun (except the bugs and the lack performance). And the comunity is very mature, unlike most of the other games I've played.
Some good players that I met are getting tired of the game.
But one thing is certain, we are loosing players on the game and we are going to lose even more.

Some companies, aim to make the most online played game... OOO on the other hand seems to aim for the opposite. And SK will never come close to the top, not while runing on Java!

Efforts must be made in order to bring this game to full potential, as quickly as you can... Or maybe soon there will be no game for you to work for.

Just an advice, OOO, ignoring the sugestions AND solutions players give you is not the way to build a good and solid free game.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 10:29

Byas

Stun fix did improve the

Stun fix did improve the gameplay, mine at least.
And LD is not the main game, sure it's unbalanced and I don't find it fun, but since the focus of the game should be the coop I'm fine with it. Although I agree that this game lacks content.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 10:29

Ubergoose

+1 I completely agree, OOO

+1
I completely agree, OOO NEEDS to start listening to it's players, or it wont have many players left =/ i love this game, i just wish it was as good as it could be if more of our suggestions are considered.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 11:46

Spookington

I agree, but...

While I agree with most of your points, and while I too like TF2 - I don't think it's very fair to compare the two on performance issues.

You see, unlike OOO, Valve is very, very big. It has more servers and more resources to deliver better gameplay performance.

And no offence to OOO, but the Source engine is simply just superior to Java. Java sucks - too many bugs and overall just shoddy code. While as a DVS recon I also get pissed with class imbalances, I guess I'm far more forgiving for it due to the crap OOO has to work with.

It's not that I don't notice it, just that I'm willing to give them more slack for it. They work hard and I appreciate it despite the flaws.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 11:54

Canine-Vladmir

+1 for being real about the situation

yep. most things are broken and those big things are usually left for last.
Lockdown is broken, you can ask anybody, but they will usually just say "its okay" because who likes giving up an exploit? i dont.

small lol moment today regarding stun: I shield blocked a gremlin combo and it ended stunning the gremlin himself. Trolol

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 12:06

Thimol

-----

I completely agree, OOO NEEDS to start listening to it's players, or it wont have many players left

hey guess what
people like yourself have been saying this for months now
I don't see anyone going anywhere

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 12:18

Juances

LD is a minigame. Stun had more priority than it, besides being older.

Thats also a problem with the over-used gear. Flourishes or skolver arent so OP against a horde of devilites and greavers. If it's too much on a goddamn minigame, sorry, and get back to the clockworks. TF2 doesnt have such duality, you're always fighting the same guys.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 12:36

Spaghetti-Knight

@Spookington

An engine little has to do with a programming language.

In fact, as long as the programming is well made, the performance issues are unnoticeable.

The difference is that TF2 is written in C++ I believe and SK with Java. C++ is a more powerful language than Java, which is why almost every game is written by such. Smaller games can be written by both, since the performance difference is little, as long it's well written.

A badly programmed game however, and not even the most powerful computers will be capable of running it at full speed (minecraft for a strong example).

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 13:39

Spaghetti-Knight

@Fight-Men

Wrong. Any language will do fine as long as the code is well-made. Java, however is more intensive for the CPU.

And C++ can also be used on any supporting platform/OS, that includes Mac/linux.

As for the rest, I really don't think you know what you're talking about...

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 13:48

Aumir

Absolutely

It is what I think. This game has so much POTENTIAL, I have said it thousand times, it could be the next Castle Crushers, but we just get costumes and more costumes and just droplets of new content centered on that clustered mess of unrisked business behavior that is Mission Mode...

I blame the decision to make that Doctor Who game. I think OOO is more centered in that than this game due to the weight of the licence, and even so, what did OOO did with it? Make a puzzle minigame compilation, come on! What staff do we have in this game currently?

...I don't mean to sound angry, I am just disappointed, sorry.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 13:52

#10

Autofire

@Spaghetti-Knight

Java has some large advantages over others. The largest is that Java can run on Linux, Windows, and Mac without any additional versions, making it easy to update. C++ requires a unique version on every OS it is going to be used on. This lifts much of the work of the devs so they can focus on other things.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 14:47

#11

Fight-Men

@Spaghetti-Knight

Java is not fine... Believe me. If it was fine I would not have random CPU spikes that lag all my computer. Even other more intensive games, like BF3 and such are not that CPU hungry.
I know that C++ can be run in Mac and Linux, but they need to be specifically optimized for that. Java doesn't need that.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 17:01

#12

Spaghetti-Knight

Fight-Men

hmmm, what CPU and graphics do you have? If you have a fairly weak CPU, that is most likely the problem.

And yeah, now that I think of it, it does make sense about the C++...

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 17:49

#13

Thimol

-----

Thats the problem, OOO doesn't listen to us. And when the game is shutdown what will players say? Or better, what will OOO say as an excuse to us?
Besides, its a FREE game, and I have witnessed that free games are almost ruled by the comunity, as the devs listen to it and try to develop something close to the suggestions.

I feel like you didn't read my post. You probably didn't, I'm guessing.

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 18:30

#14

Fight-Men

Spaghetti-Knight:
Trust me, if my computer runs BF3 all maxed out, I believe it must run SK even easily. SK doesn't have even 20% of the details BF3 has.
Yeah, because Java code is decoded by Java VM in order to make the machine undestand it.

Thimol:
I read your post, I sure did. But now that I pay more atention I might have mis-replied it :/
But you are right, I'm complaining like many other did, but I'm gonna get ignored anyway...

Mon, 10/29/2012 - 18:32

#15

Thunderbog

I don't know if I should bet some crowns on this..

Ye aren't the only one trying to convince Three Rings. :/

Tue, 10/30/2012 - 07:48

#16

Fight-Men

@Thunderbog

Don't bet, you will lose those crowns :/
I know, I lost the count on post complaining about many things on SK..

Yet, I hope more players see and put their thoughts on this thread.

Tue, 10/30/2012 - 09:01

#17

Byas

IDK if it's just here but the

IDK if it's just here but the game seems to get slower at each update it gets. When the blast processing came it was amazing, I could play at high with no slowdown at all but since nothing good lasts forever, as more patches came it all became so slowed down that I have to play on low to get it running decently and still get some slowdown from time to time (which is kinda strange for a pc that can run Crysis on medium).

Tue, 10/30/2012 - 11:26

#18

Adamosaur

Uh...well...Fight-Men...

The DA 'glitch' you mentioned. I don't see it as a glitch, I see it as a limitation of the weapon (since it's always been there). So I learned to release the charge when it won't disappear, and I have more motivation to use the brandish line (when it was improved).

The issue with LD is a minor issue which will not be modified, here's why:
LD currently:
-certain players with optimized weapons/etc excel and dominate
-most other players don't
Because of this, I don't play LD, problem solved. I come to SK for the community and the PvE, if I wanted PvP I'd play any of the other games I own.
LD fixed:
-all players who spend weeks/months/years optimizing their shock max UVs are angry and don't play LD
-other players play LD, say it's boring (all weapons same), or whatever, we will find some flaw with it, just like people do for everything else in the game.

I agree, it would be nice if there was a steady stream of actual content. I don't care about costumes/accessories, and I've ignored them since their first release. The issue with this complaining is that these are just mere suggestions. Getting mad at OOO for not implementing your suggest seems a bit egocentric. Even if it is a community suggestion, they make the game, not us. They make the money and know the actual numbers of joining/leaving players. We are free to post our opinions (clearly), but expecting actual change to a game isn't likely, seeming as we are probably very uninformed. Let alone asking OOO to revamp their entire game by changing its means of operation.

Furthermore, the stun fix greatly changed my gaming experience. I can finally use the stagger storm effectively without killing other players. This was a big deal to me, much bigger than improving LD (which I never play, and never will play again.) Once you get all the token recipes/costumes from LD, it just seems like a slower way of earning crowns than the clockworks (well missions now).

@Fight-Men; if OOO wanted a game ruled by the community they would have made one. They didn't, so it's not in our right to tell them how to run their game, especially since it's FREE. I just compare this to the 60$ COD and the 20$ map packs and other DLC costing money on consoles and on Steam otherwise. This game has given me so many hours of fun, making it perfect is hardly my concern, and hardly my right.
Also, the only bugs you mentioned were LD and the DA. Other bugs that warrant fixing over Stun, logistics, and cosmetics?
"Some good players that I met are getting tired of the game.
But one thing is certain, we are loosing players on the game and we are going to lose even more." by Fight-Men
^This statement has no justification. OOO knows the real numbers, we don't. I can only assume that for every 4 long-time players who rage quit from SK on the forums, they are getting as least 10x new players/accounts per week, if not per day. (Already stated by Thimol, who I agree with).

Tue, 10/30/2012 - 13:44

#19

Fight-Men

@Adamosaur

I agree, we don't all have the same opinions, and I respect yours, and everyone's.

As I said before: I gave a lot of credit on OOO for fixing the stun!
But please, read the other bugs I mentioned and the ones I didn't are expressly complained here on the forums. I didn't talked only on LD, DA CTR bugs... I talked about a lot of other ones.

You see the CTR attack bug on DA as a limitation?
So if you report a bug where you knight started flying and/or became invulnerable; you might see this as a bug, but someone else might see it as an advantage.

I don't want the game made the way I want, or my sugestions implemented, in fact I'm sugesting what many players before me sugested... I only want the bugs to get fixed, at least that! If they don't want to correct bugs, well, dont "ask us" to report them.
And I too don't care about costumes, but if it doesn't seem to you that OOO is fixed on getting "new" costumes rather than fixing what NEEDS fixing here, then I don't know if you payed enough atention to the patch. How many reals bugs were corrected? 3 Max... How many costumes and things like that were brought to the game? Over 9000.

So if LD is unbalanced and sucks, since there are other games to do PvP, why did even bother putting LD on SK? Thats like having a boat with wheels to drive in the road when you could had a car.
Because 500 people spent a lot of money on their load of UVs, they have the right to make everything there unfair for the 1000 that want to play that too? I'm sorry but thats just...
And so LD keeps unbalanced due to OOO being afraid to make it fair because those 500 UV users might rage quit it? And the other 1000 that could feel atracted to play LD due to its balancing aren't going to play it because its still unfair?
Seems that the vested interests are the things that really matter on what LD is going to become... The ones that are good there (rich people) will rage quit it because of the balancing... And as I said, looks like some people are afraid of them.

Of course, for 1 player that gives up maybe 12 more will come, but they will give up the game too, as the game it's harder and harder for newbies. So, if you think that our numbers are incresing and you are mistaken. OOO knows the numbers as you say.

I mentioned a lot of other bugs than DA, cosmetics and logistics... Please read that part again.

Tue, 10/30/2012 - 15:52

#20

Adamosaur

The DA issue with it's charge

The DA issue with it's charge attack near walls has always been present in the weapon. Flying around a map has not. I see that "bug" in the DA as part of the weapon, and I know not to use it when facing away from walls or solid objects. It is a limitation of the weapon, one which has a powerful enough charge attack. If you want a charge that pushes enemies away from your corner then use a brandish line, or any of the many other swords who have weaker charges, but charges that work in that situation.

Reporting bugs are for bugs. I see bugs as, "I can't go down a clockwork lift" or "the auctionhouse is locked and cannot be updated." Saying "this boss is too easy" isn't a bug in my opinion, and neither is saying "LD is unfair because of my internet connection, or my lack of maxing out my skolver set's UVs."

The reason they have LD in SK still is because A, some people enjoy it, and B, it is a partial selling point for the game. In general, saying a game is PvE is nice, but saying it also have PvP makes more people interested. Even if they don't keep playing SK for weeks or months, they still get introducted to the game, make an account, and maybe spend some dough if not just time playing the game.

Maybe the issue with fixing LD aren't as simple as everyone says. Saying something is overpowered is helpful, but nevertheless it isn't a selling point for OOO. If LD cost money (real life or a profit otherwise for OOO aside from fairness) then I'm sure it'd have been fixed up to make it more appealing.

Maybe I'm just not seeing it...LD, DA, more LD, java...

I do agree that new players are being turned away. The only boss now that is financially viable is vana, which is not accessable to most players. Even then, they have to waste 2000 mist on missions which gives almost no crowns. I think that the ce market issue stemmed from the Prize Boxes, or, it's just an inevitable issue, since more people buy ce with cr than cr with ce. 9000cr for 100ce...that's like 3.75 jelly king runs. Snarby isn't even viable anymore. It's a shame, but I doubt OOO will change it. If the game is as good as you (and I) think it is, or know it is, if people want to play it, they might dish out 5 bucks for 30 days of infinite playing. That's money and players for OOO, and as long as they are able to sustain the game through that money, there's no need to help with the ce prices.

Wed, 10/31/2012 - 18:05

#21

Adamosaur

I agree

I agree with you on most of your points.
In the long term if actual content isn't added, or content isn't rebalanced or fixed SK will lose members and become less viable for OOO.

Even with these issues, there are still players who enjoy the game (new players, not tier2 or 3 access). I know this because I know them, and I see plenty of them around. Some of these players get lift passes or pay money at some point, most don't, nevertheless SK is in itself a great game (otherwise we wouldn't still be here). It's based on a balance, and at this point the minor bugs do not effect my everyday gameplay. It'd be nice if LD was actually fun, or if BN wasn't just bomberman but with lag, but until something changes, I'll just stay to playing the clockworks (or missions). I do find it interesting that OOO released the Halloween items as token usable, not ce purchase acquirable. Aside from getting OOO less money, it also doesn't help the ce market, since the items are all worth nothing. When you see a Fur set that's less than 8k crowns each, you know the amount in circulation will take a month to make them even slightly valuable to sell.

I am interested to see this guildhall update which has been pending since September. I assume that it will entirely be cosmetic probably, but even then I have some hope that they will include something of use. A guild store or bank, or something else that is actually useful, especially if they expect us to pump crowns into maintaining something.

Eh, the 5star players who buy ce/passes either enjoy the game or want more gear and want it now (addiction is also enjoyment I guess). There are plenty of new players who find this game fun, and the only thing keeping them back from playing it all day is their dwindling mist. 5 bucks is a low price to pay for 30 days of playing, especially if someone is used to paying to own a game, let alone pay to play. The ce market is a downer for most of us, but it may just be persuasive enough to have new players pay that 5 bucks for the pass. As long as they have a few new players, if they play for only a month then it's fine. And if they get addicted after that month, they'll prob spend another 5 bucks.

Unless something seriously goes wrong with SK, I'll be here. Minor issues with weapons and content which I can just ignore is not an issue to me. It's unfortunate, but the DA has always had that glitch, and I was playing before LD was created, so it's just like it was, except with a market at 91:1ce market instead of 30:1.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 08:25

#22

Spaghetti-Knight

@Fight-Men

I'm still sure you have a relatively weak CPU. Just remember that CPU !=GPU, and most games today use the GPU way more intensively than the CPU.
Posting specs would help really...

Fri, 11/02/2012 - 21:12

#23

Fight-Men

Thank you all for the constructive discussion! :)

@Adamosaur:
Indeed, the lack of new content is huge and rebalancing is even worse. Another things are the lack of tweaks that can be made to the game. This would benefit a lot people with low-end computers.
I've been hearing about that guildhall update for a long time and, 'till now, nothing. And you're right, it will be another cosmetic update and the bugs will remain they way they are... Killing players, over and over again.
But that's what makes my sad, those kinds of updates don't fix the game.
I don't complain about things that I can ignore too, whenever I see a bug I'll report it no matter if it bothered me or not. But still, I've seen many guildmates, friends, and myself getting killed because of the bugs. I'm honest, I'm not a tryhard on this, but I know how to spot a bug.

Yup, those items are so cheap right now because the market is ruined, that not even worth selling them.
But you think that OOO got less money due to making the prizes token-available? I believe not... Just look at the token paranoia this even generated. Everyone was doing Clockwork runs to get more and more tokens. They spent CE, bought more CE to spend, some bought passes... All of this to get prizes boxes in order to sell the items inside of them.

But still, I think OOO needs to re-think their priorities... If they don't want to expand the game to more players, ok. Keep it this way. But it's a bit reckless when they have the possibilities to have more money income, and not going for it.
Still, they have the power to make the game "bigger" in number of players. Imo, they could think like:
"We have only a few devs, so lets see if we can get more devs that are interested in developing this free game so that we can expand it to a larger scale."
This way they could have more people working on many aspects of the game, and could atract more players since some aspects of the game were fixed. That's the way I would do it.
Every free game started the same way all others: small game that earned players and with that, size and respect.
Sorry to bring a competitor to the talk... Look at League Of Legends: has always been free and its one of the games with the most money income, not to mention the biggest game among the free ones or payed. They made their world championship recently, and let me tell you, that was not even close to be a cheap championship... Google for the cup, only that cup costed a butload of money.

Yes, you are right, more players will come, and some few might even buy the pass...
But many won't buy a pass, since its a free-to-play game. I have many players like that on my guild.
I think many of the new players won't be arround too much when they realise that this game is almsot about cometics and the bugs they reported were never corrected, doesn't matter playing the game itself... What matter is buying things to make your knight look pretty and cute.
I've seen many knights that look more like an accessory closet than a knight...

Agreed, addiction is when you enjoy something a lot.
Agreed another time when you say that SK is a great game... And if conceived properly could be a perfect one.

And will be here too, maybe not as often as I was... But I will not buy more elevator passes or CE. I won't payto support something that keeps ignoring and ignoring players.

CE is too damn overpriced, i miss the times when 100ce was less than 5K.

@Spaghetti-Knight:
You still believe that I don't have enough horsepower to run this?
Here, have my specs:

MB: Asus P5Q Turbo
PSU: NOX Urano 2 630W
CPU: Core2Duo E8400 3.0GHZ (Overclocked if needed).
GPU: Asus EN450GTS - TOP 1GB (Overclocked if needed).
RAM: 4Gb DDR2 800Mhz Team Elite (Overclocked if needed).
HD: Western Digital 500Gb 7200Rpm Sata III
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium x86

I know, and you know too that this is more than enough to run SK.
If I played this on my laptop that is good but has an Intel video card... But no, the rig I posted earlier is my gaming rig.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 20:22

#24

Iapnez

A Core 2 Duo is a pretty

A Core 2 Duo is a pretty dated processor, and so is DDR2 RAM. You have the horsepower to run the game, but not as well as you think. Your RAM and CPU are the bottlenecks for your computer.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:17

#25

Wuvvums

Didn't read all the posts

Didn't read all the posts since the topic is huge but....

This wasn't the big update they planned. There is still the guild hall update.

Also:

The person who makes vanity items is different from the one that builds the game. Just because they are putting the art guys to work on vanity items doesn't mean the guys who build the game aren't working on actually building the game. In fact, this gives their employees who work on graphics something to do and a pay check to earn while the developers catch up.

Thu, 11/01/2012 - 21:19

#26

Qwez

wuh?

Stun was fixed? I never noticed it .-. I still get dem stun bugs.

ex: double shooting howlitzers
ex: instant zombie smacks
ex: instant zombie leaps

I actually want to know what has been fixed about stun...

-I play on my linux comp, which runs faster than most (in loading times) and only problems are smoke effects.
-OOO seems to be pretty happy with high CE prices... they would not fix that any time soon.

Anyways, OOO appears to fix with priorities not focused on gameplay. I feel that they made the game attract more new players (which are more likely to spend) rather than focusing on overall gameplay.
ex: shorter beginning missions as opposed to final missions, interesting beginning, exclusive beginner content, accessories to begin with, free weapons due to missions, (mist tank rewards have always existed), brandish buff, heart trinkets, etc. all apply to the newish players.
New players spend money on getting upgrades, which don't help when they don't have any experience, then they revive wasting all their moneys >.>

Anyone think that this is the core reason all/majority of updates being based on the "Wow!" factor to new players?

*by OOO I mean the bosses of the devs, they are the end-line decision makers.

Sat, 11/03/2012 - 18:53

#27

Wuvvums

"From the recent updates

"From the recent updates we've had, and I quote, the guildhall update is probably going to be another cosmetic update."

Where did you get this conclusion? It's going to be WAY more than that. Actually I don't think it has anything to do with armor and accessories. O_o

This is one of the biggest updates I've been hearing about.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 08:25

#28

Fight-Men

@Wuvvums

I concluded this because of the recent updates...
Yes, recent updates brought us many costumes and accessories; so I believe that this guildhall update is only going to be a cosmetic one again. They will change the appearance of the guildhall, add furnitures and cool things. But, for some gameplay improvement I bet we are going to wait a lot more.
I SURE hope that this update will be more than a cosmetic one, if not OOO will find out that they lost another player: as I am less active now, theres a thin line between I continue playing this and leaving.

Lets hope that you are not tricked too, by OOO...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 09:32

#29

Wuvvums

Well they made a few

Well they made a few discussions like this one here: http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/64070

That wasn't all they had planned for the guild halls but people are waiting. Even the cosmetic parts of it (like rooms and decorations) was something that some of us had been wanting since closed beta.

Also what do you mean by game play improvement? I'm just curious. I feel like the game itself is pretty much done and from here on they're just building up and expanding content. All the core elements are there.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 09:50

#30

Fight-Men

@Wuvvums

From what I read in the post you showed me I saw only features added... Yes, adding features is so awesome, but what about correcting the bugs many features already present in the game?
Game improvement = fixing bugs, improving performance; making the game MORE viable.
All the core elements are there? Which elements?! Sure some core elements are here, but... What about fixing and improving them?
What about the huge ammount of bugs? Unbalancing? Pure-joke game performance? Crappy graphics to complement the slow perfomance? Lack of tweaks? JAVA? ... ...
SK is being conceived this way: having a car and instead of working on its engine, suspension, transmission, ect... Working on adding a spoiler, skirts, bumpers, ect. And let the crucial parts of the car rust and detriorate... Will that car run well? NO! Will it look good to the eyes? YES!

Sure, you and we all want some cosmetic items. But do you want a game filled with cosmetics and bugged to the top? Bugs that you submited?
I suggest, pick a game filled with bugs and play it. Will you like it? I bet you don't, neither you nor anyone...

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 09:59

#31

Wuvvums

Who says they aren't working

Who says they aren't working on bugs though? They do bug fixes in their updates. I don't they're just sitting on their hands just hoping those bugs can be swept under a rug.

The development team is only 8 people and two of them are artists. And bugfixing is something that MMOs do with their games until the end of time. It's pretty normal; frustrating, but normal.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 11:12

#32

Fight-Men

well...

Well, it seems they dont worry about some bugs... Read again the DA/AP and other weapon bugs, those bugs have been in-game reported and on the forums too, for a long time. The zombies alike, like a user said here on this thread. None of us has seen a fix to them to this day.
"I don't they're just sitting on their hands just hoping those bugs can be swept under a rug". You don't? Well, it seems the other way.
This is where I make my conclusions that they don't care about bugs.
Back again on the topic that OOO has few devs, they could think like this or something like it:
"We have only a few devs, so lets see if we can get more devs that are interested in developing this free game so that we can make it better and expand it to a larger scale."

I'm sorry if I'm being harsh on OOO but I spent money supporting them because I thought the game had future, and now I see that my money was badly spent.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 11:41

#33

Wuvvums

Well that's your buyer's

Well that's your buyer's remorse. I've put hundreds into this game and I have yet to regret it.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 11:44

#34

Wuvvums

Well that's your buyer's

Well that's your buyer's remorse. I've put hundreds into this game and I have yet to regret it.

Also: I would rather they prioritize content development to expand the game than fix a few minor bugs. If you're talking about how the AP/Sen charge gets clipped on walls I couldn't really give a crap in comparison to focusing on something that could benefit the player base at large. Is there any bug right now that is truly game breaking or makes parts of the game unbearable? Also what's the zombie bug? I never heard of it.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 12:43

#35

Fight-Men

@Wuvvums

Yes it might be some of my buyers remorse, but only a small percentage of it... But not only that.
Mainly its my desire to make this game better, as it could be a good game... But... *sighs*

Go ahead, let OOO keep "expanding" the game in their way, and do not make them fix the bugs. Then you will see how many players will still be arround.
Minor bugs? Every run that I make, whether missions or Clockworks, I always find bugs... Small or big ones.
If OOO doesn't focus on correcting the bugs small or big ones, you'll see where SK goes: shutdown.

As a user said before, OOO is working on the "Wow!" factor... Players come, stay arround for a while, but then they see the crapload of bugs arround here and they will leave ASAP.
I bet that if the game was more know to the world, someone would make that "Toy Story" comedy about this: "Bugs! Bugs everywhere!"
Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exists. I've seen bugs reported here that I never saw, but they exist nonetheless.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 12:48

#36

Wuvvums

You make it sound like the

You make it sound like the game is somehow broken. It sounds surprising you can even run it if that's the case! Are you sure some of it may not be on the client side of things? Because as it is it sounds like we're playing two totally different games.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 15:03

#37

Fight-Men

@Wuvvums

Somehow broken? So for you this game is not broken?
If you don't see bugs, I suggest you to actually start "playing" the game... On haven there are pratically no bugs (1 or 2 but nothing important), but based on that you don't see almost any bugs you probably hang out all the time on haven.
Im going to give a last comparison about SK and another game:
If this is a solid game then LoL is the PERFECT game!

How come its always the clients fault? When almost everyone on my guild says the same I posted here? When I have 3 diferent computers with 2 diferent O.S. (2 with Windows and 1 with Linux) and they all have the same problems? 1 of them is my gaming rig.
Plus, its not just me... Many players complain about what I said, I just resumed some of the complaints. And all of my guild complains about it too.
Maybe for you the game is perfect, but thats your opinion.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 17:20

#38

Wuvvums

Ah, how silly of me. Of

Ah, how silly of me. Of course it's hard to get into the meat of the game when you've only clocked 22 day's worth of hours on your main knight!

But really, I have yet to see a point where the game was 1: unplayable or 2: progress was not plausible.

A couple weeks ago there was a bug where none of the clockworks floors, lockdown levels or blast network games would even load and they got that fixed within the hour. I am still waiting for you to come up with a bug that somehow makes conditions so bad someone would be forced to quit.

Edit: I am suggesting it's client side because you haven't specified what kind of bugs are ruining your experience aside from AP and DA charges. For all we know it could be lag. Heck, I've played under lag before and I know what it's like to rubber band and fly around the room and run in place but that isn't a bug, that's just a bad connection.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:09

#39

Fight-Men

@Wuvvums

You and I, both know that those hours are inconclusive...
But I'm not here to make battles against the other users and turn this into a personal attack battle, like in some threads. I try, and want to be the more polite possible, sorry if I ofended you.

I never said that the game was unplayable. I said that it only has a huge amount of bugs.
See? I never saw one of those bugs related to the elevators. But they exist, i'm not gonna that say if I didnt saw them , they don't exist.
There's no bug that makes the conditions so bad, but the sum of all the bugs you find each time you play. That's what makes it bad. Knowing that 1 minute you're fine and the next one you see a bug... Many times I've seen people dying due to the insta-attacking enemies.
I can count by my fingers the number of bug-clean runs I made.

I have specified other bugs than weapon charges. Haven't listed them all.
I know what is lag, as I had a kind rubber band before... Lag with 4 bars of connection? With 50 to 80 of ping on other games? Sorry, but thats not possible.
Lag due to firewalls? Anti-virus? Impossible, as I have Java and SK exceptions there.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:17

#40

Dead-Bard

Alright, I wasn't gonna give

Alright, I wasn't gonna give attention to this thread but your venting about bugs got me, care to explain which bugs are you referring to except DA/AP charge? (annoying, true, but nothing you can't get used to and game-breaking, plus DA charge is overpowered anyway).

Honestly there were a few game-breaking bugs such as the one mentioned by Wuvvums that got removed pretty fast and gave us half-day of half-price elevators and the one with the trade system that got taken care of in about 2-3 hours and restored the lost items.

So yeah, I can't really see what kind of bugs you keep experiencing everywhere that keep ruining your gaming experience transmuting every single minute you play into a horrible journey through sadness and despair.

And about lag, YES you can lag even if you got 4 bars and a 50-80 ping, sometimes your data-packets and whatnot get stuck somewhere and come all at once and a lot more stuff that's going on inside the magic box, so it happens, deal with it.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:41

#41

Fight-Men

@Dead-Bard

Yes, DA charge is OP, agree.
Only saw 1 of those game breaking bugs: the one you could not go to the haven.

What about Shields shutting down for no apparent reason? Enemies getting through them with no effort?
Sadness and despair? Please read this again carefully as I never said that, I said again above that the sum of all the little and big bugs IS what makes it bad. So try not to twist my words, ok?...

Strange, and funny... Almost no data-packets getting stucked in other games I play.

If you think the game is good for you, carry on, support OOO. But thats your opinion, others may not share it.
I only started this thread because many people I know are complaining about this.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 18:55

#42

Wuvvums

I don't think the shields are

I don't think the shields are bugged so much as they have to be very high in a certain stat and they are not meant to be reliable. I saw a video where shields didn't work at all (instant break regardless of enemy presence) but then a GM came in to help kill the boss. There can be flukes here and there where something doesn't quite work which is why you can file in-game tickets. However, as mentioned some of it is probably intended (especially in T3).

Also I don't see how the hours are inconclusive when I have a high rank on all three characters. You can't make vanguard sitting in the Haven all day. I only pointed this out because you suggest I never played the game, when most of us are questioning what sort of game play and bugs are you encountering that is a much different experience from our own.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:17

#43

Dead-Bard

You know that shields have a

You know that shields have a small reaction time given by their animation in which you're still completely vulnerable and that's an intended feature so that players wouldn't just spam shieldattacks all the way, right? That's probably what you refer to when you speak about enemies getting throught them because other than that I never experienced any enemy getting past my shield while it was fully up and I've never heard of someone experiencing something similar, unless, ofc, it was caused by lag/Latency.
About the shield shutting down by itself, well, never seen that either and I didn't find a single thread about it on the bug report, so I wouldn't know about that.

About the sadness and despair, I was joking, don't worry, take it easy.

Also, I don't buy that you've never experienced a single lag-spike in any other game you've played, unless it was an offline game, the consequences of them could have been less noticeable or less annoying, but afterall SK, being an actionMMO, is pretty based on reflexes and quick-thinking so even the slightest lag will give you hard times, I'd say that most of the bad stuff that happens is due to the fact that it's written in Java which is a pretty bad choice for a game, but then again I know nothing about programming so it might have been compiled in dogs for all I know/care.

I think the game is much better than most of the stuff you see around these days, there's a huge balance between F2P and P2P players that I've NEVER seen in any other game of the like, the game mechanics themselves are fun and original, the majority of economy is ran by players without OOO interfering (save for Featured Auctions which are great since they're a crown-sink) meaning that as long as people support and pay for this game there will always be a bearable balance.
All the minor bugs you keep mentioning as the main cause of your venting really aren't that much of a big deal and with the major ones that can prove themselves game-breaking still get solved fairly quickly afaik.

What I lament the most is the lack of content, there isn't really much to do once you reach the top, the payout balance among arcade instances and boss-runs aswell as between bosses themselves and the shard bombs being utter unusable garbage.

But then again OOO is a small company so the first point is undestandable and for the other two I believe they're already working on them.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:17

#44

Fight-Men

@Wuvvums

You lost me on this part: "However, as mentioned some of it is probably intended (especially in T3)", sorry :/

Yes, forgot that point, and only noticed it now (re-checked the image)... Sorry, my bad for not noticing the Vanguard status.

For me the DA glitch is not a big problem, as I only use DA in LD and don't use the charge in there. But the problem is for the players that only posess that weapon and spent many time gathering cr and ce for that weapon and after they crafted they found it has a bug? Well, its in their right to complain, if not rage about it.
My all time main problem is the shield going off by no reason or getting activated and still atacks get through. Me an a close friend of mine got killed because of that sometimes.
I dont tank with shields, I shield bump whenever I can, but if I spent time and money on a shield I want it to protect me when I really need it. If I want to use a shield that doesn't protect me, better use the Iron Buckler ^^

I say again, I'm not speaking just for me... I'm speaking for many of the people I know in game.

Mon, 11/05/2012 - 19:42

#45

Wuvvums

I would like to see something

I would like to see something done with shields though at least with the trap collision. I can understand some of it with spikes but thorns get a little silly when you have a monster with enough knockback to send you back into the thorns just when you got out because your shield keeps colliding which doesn't let you move far. Shields in general are tricky and I've found that I had to teach myself not to rely on them too much.

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 07:28

#46

Autofire

I heard some of you blabing about LD...

I have some ideas to fix it that aren't weapon nerfs...

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 07:01

#47

Fight-Men

...

@Dead-Bard:
Of couse I know that shields have the animation delay, in fact it would be very stupid from me if I was complaining about that.
In fact you can spam the shield bumping a lot, even with that animation delay.
My point is, and I'll give an example:
You see a projectile coming from away, and you are traped between spikes and fire, and your shield is blue; so what you do? You shield up and tank that little thing. The thing that happens is that the projectile keeps coming and you wait for it to hit the shield, instead of hiting the shield it get through it and boom! Hits you and the shield continues blue.

Sorry for misunderstanding the joke :b

I didn't expressed my self well...
Of course everyone has experienced lag spikes in every game, whether they have a super-ultra-fast-boom-network or a rubber band.
What I meant to say is that lag spikes are much more frequents here than in the other games. I have ping and fps overlay on the game, so I know when its "my" fault or not.

Agree on that the minimum lag will cost you dearly.
Yet again I agree... They could not have picked a worser language than Java, it already runs slowly and bad on mobile phones, even more to make a MMOG. Plus there's the engine used. (It has all been said in upper posts)
Not that much balance between F2P and P2P, IMO F2P is better nowadays than P2P.

What are game breaking bugs (like: players can't go down in elevators, or, players can't go to haven), those bugs ruin the business to OOO. Since there are no players exploring wasting CE , buying CE... The "small" bugs I refered are good to business, because, as I said before, players can die because of them (like a player who only has a DA and another crappy weapon), so... More players dying = more CE spent on revives = more CE spent on revives = more CE bought to replenish players stock = more CE bought with real money. Look at the time they too so fix part of the stun bug, and I got killed many times by that bug.

And another thing I agree is the huge lack of new content... As I said in the 1st post, the halloween costumes were a complete joke. Very low move from OOO, they grabbed costumes and armors that already existed and changed their colors. "Awesome" (used irony).

Many players have been hearing that OOO is working and working and working, but they are getting tired of waiting... If OOO used the method of a steady release of updates, then some of them could stay and keep playing... But no.

@Wuvvums:
Agree on that trap colision issue. Mostly on that places where you have enemies that can spam everything.
Try to move on Compund 42 with your shield up: Impossibru!
Have you noticed that instead of correcting or improving things, OOO makes the players find the solutions themselves. "Have a bug on DA? Got killed by it? Deal with it!" "Your shield doesn't let you move futher to escape the attacks? Take it of and die; you can always buy more CE from us using Paysafe cards or your mobile phone ;)"

@Autofire:
I think I have read a post similar to that one, i'm not sure if it was yours.
I agree on that solution. And Strikers are OP, I play a Striker most of the time (no HP trinkets) and I find that class OP, but with health trinkets they are over 9000 of opness.
That striker-boost breaking upon attacks from enemies is good imo, if not, they just spam attack + strike-boost + attack + strike-boost... Making this over again until they kill or the boost runs out.
Guardian percentage based health seems a good point for me too, as going up 9 healt regardless of the tier is OP in T1 and in T3 is UP. The hp regen is too low in T3 too... But if they buffed the HP regen in T3 it could become OP.
Recon HP scaling per Tier about 10 percent is not that much... However I think Recon HP is almost on the sweet spot, the footprint is the thing that makes that class unusable. I used Recon but dropped using it since the Strykies could always see where I was heading.

And besides agreement, its only simple math.
A team of six players, it would become limited to: 2 strikers, 2 recons and 2 guardians; and so on. Every LD team I see is ALL Strikers, and if a recon comes, well, poor player gets mocked... :/

Tue, 11/06/2012 - 18:26

#48

Diamondshreddie

wait...

They fixed stun???!

I NEED A STAGGER STORM AAAGH

HELLO AGAIN LD ;_;

....

someone sell me a 3* haze bomb plox :|

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 06:01

#49

Wuvvums

Should have been playing BN.

Should have been playing BN. I already got all the recipes c:

Wed, 11/07/2012 - 18:57

#50

Diamondshreddie

WHATSHDJA

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

MUST PLAY COLESSIUM...

NO PLAYERS WAITING...

GAAAAHHHH.

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Some venting from players.