Yep, I'm actually a 2/3* person right now. That dosn't stop me from thinking - Should I choose to use Divine Avenger or Sudaruska when I am eventually a 5* player?
Gran Faust is marked off my list because of the risky charge attack.
Triglav is marked off because I prefere Stun over Freeze.
I don't know whether to pick Divine Avenger or Sudaruska.
Which one should I attempt to get?
I like the Sudaruska, but the DA seems to be more fun to use.
I do like face-bashing though, but I guess face-slashing would be fun too.
Another thing to address is the damage: Sudaruska deals pure normal (I think) and DA does half-normal, half-elemental, which means DA is better for constructs and undead, but Sudaruska is better at beast and gremlin.
And a sword with a ranged attack is awesome. I like guns, because of the range, and I like swords, because of brutal, bloody(in my mind, as SK has no blood), barbaric brawling( Hey, four B's in a row!), Conbining both into a ranged charge sword is epic.
Now, I think I'll choose DA. Better start farming Royal Jelly...
Evlo, I have a detailed sword guide that may help you. For example, the reason to avoid Gran Faust isn't that the charge is risky; it's that the charge is brutally slow. Sudaruska's charge damage is nice, but it's also brutally slow. Divine Avenger's charge is faster, and also does tons of damage. And DA is faster than Sudaruska in regular attacks, and does specialized damage to 2/6 of monsters. Let me know if you want more information than is in the guide and offered by Darkbrady.
Edit: About fun: They're both great fun. Their regular attacks are essentially identical, except in speed and damage. Their charge attacks are different but both fun.
Well, both Bopp and Darkbrady give very good advices and information, but here is the some additional things you want to consider :
- do you use several swords, or at least weapons, or plan to ? If you don't, consider to do so! If you still don't, yeah you'll probably be best served by Suda
- if you have several non-normal weapons, you'll always have neutral or better damage by switching to the right weapon. That's why normal weapons are largely frowned upon. That's also why I'd advise you to take DA, which is an awesome elemental sword, and also a perfect sword for the end-game money-farming instance, FSC. It's very popular for a reason.
1. I'm 2/3*, at which point you only begin to obtain non-normal swords. I have a brandish, flourish, troika and honor blade three star. Plus because I'm F2P I only use 2 weapon slots. I my main striker-type class I use troika and honor blade to knock enemies away or deal massive damage.
2. Hooray, one of the best weapons for FSC on my list :D! I think I'll choose DA because of the elemental damage. Note I have a flourish for pierce, a brandish which could lead to an Acheron, all I'm missing is the elemental.
Also, in LD I seems to have mastered striker shield-cancelling with the boost. Would a Suda or DA be helpful? I presume Avenger as it is quicker to attack. The main way I beat people in a higher star level rarely is by shield cancelling, boosting to the other side and attacking, then rinsing and repeating.
Sealed swords are widely used in LD very successfully, thanks to their high damage, although their more or less require ASI bonuses or the swing time will often get you killed.
Suda can be used in LD and achieve high damage, and since it's rarely used, the graphic intimidates many people into keeping a touch more distance, but it's really just a hipster weapon for LD. I use it just because I think it's cool, but the fact is I'd probably be more successful with a DA.
CW is, as stated above, a different story mind you; LD really requires optimisation and redundancy doesn't really exist there.
As for your weapon choices, pierce and elemental work great; a good combo if you're planning on full swords. However, I'd just like to mention that if you trade one days worth of mist, you can get a weapon slot for 100ce less, and have it last a month; this will give you one extra weapon slot that could be used for any number of things; carrying along a gun with you for starters, as it's also handy to have a sidearm of different weapon options.
Or even just take your brandish too, for a greater variety in weapons. Sealed, Teethpick and Brandish are all three very different weapon styles, which would give you great versatility.
Or even a haze bomb, for helping spread statuses when you need it. That extra weapon slot can make a lot of difference if used correctly. Not saying it's necessary, ofc, but opens up options for you~
That's a great weapon choice! But yeah I tend to forgot about the ASI requirement of Sealed Swords since mines have an UV, thanks Darkbrady. Playing with ASI is more or less required to get the full of them, at least Med (note that it's the same for Troika lines I guess, perhaps more since they are slower in the first place).
As soon as you upgrade to 3*, you will probably want to drop both the Honor blade and Troika since they are normal, your other swords will do more damage if you use them well. If you are not sure about which sword you should use against which family, read the damage page on the wiki.
"I'm 2/3*, at which point you only begin to obtain non-normal swords" No, there are several normal 5* swords : calibur lines (Leviathan and Cold Iron Vanquisher), troika lines (Sudaraska and the other I can't remember), cutter lines (Dread Venom Striker and Wild Hunting Blade). All those swords are frowned upon because they will generally be outclassed by other non-normal alternatives. It's a shame, I love cutter lines.
Can't help you much with LD, I don't play striker.
(note that it's the same for Troika lines I guess, perhaps more since they are slower in the first place).
I'd say more, tbh. Med:asi Troikas are still pretty cringing to use.
(Sudaraska and the other I can't remember)
Triglav, out of interest.
All those swords are frowned upon
For the sake of the OP, I'd like to disagree with this word choice. Maybe unintentional, but to me, this makes it sound as if you're saying that a party would disapprove of someone using normal type swords, when in actual case most people won't mind much if you choose normal over spec.swords. Instead of "frowned upon", I'd maybe say that the common wisdom suggests there are better weapons to use for more efficient gameplay. However, to that line I'd also refer you to my first post where I linked a thread on damage redundancies and normal type swords ultimately not being any "worse".
Not to disagree with you, Fradow, I just don't want the OP getting the impression that she may be punished or looked down upon if she ever does choose such weapons.
Can't help you much with LD, I don't play striker.
Slow swords work well as recon and guardian, too. Guardians can use weapons such as Suda as a "go away" weapon to KB people back or even just swing to warn people off from getting too near. Recons can use heavy swords very well as an assassination tool for getting a heavy first swing in out of cloak, since cloak attacks are all about one heavy, successful hit with the element of surprise, instead of a wave of fast hits after their position has been revealed.
"as if you're saying that a party would disapprove of someone using normal type swords"
Actually, yes, that's what I intend to say. Some really do. Granted, you may not want to be in those kinds of party in the first place, but that happens. I even had people saying DA is the best everywhere, yes including against beast, but those were idiots whose opinion should be ignored.
So yeah, getting normal swords can get you, rarelly, and I mean VERY RARELY, punished or looked down.
I can confirm slow swords work well as recon and guardian. As a matter of fact, Gran Faust is my main LD sword.
In that case, forgive me; not intending to put words in your mouth or twist your meaning.
I suppose people here and there are like that, I just try not to treat them as the majority. I reckon if our OP spends most of her time in PUGs this may be more of an issue if she's unlucky enough to be landed with such unsavoury folks, in which case a warning wouldn't go amiss, although I'd personally advise just abandoning a group that had people such as that.
Once in a guild though, hopefully that problem will cease :)
Strikers increase attack speed by Medium, increase sword damage and give me an awesome hit-and-run ability, also negating the slow attack a little. If the DA is faster than troika I'll be fine with Vog Cub. I found the trick to not being vunerable after Troika attacks is the never use the second hit unless I'm sure that I will hit, as Duskers wreck me otherwise and take off half my health if I miss the second hit.
I'm considering having DA, FF/BTB and Acheron as I presume crowns are much easier found in T3, so I'll try upgrading my Brandish to a Nightblade, farming RJ, getting a sealed sword, upgrading that and then in my spare time upgrading the flourish.
Overall, unless some random person decides to give me a Sudaruska, I'm going for the Divine Avenger.
All in due time I guess...
I'm considering having DA, FF/BTB and Acheron
Pure sword loadouts are...generally discouraged, especially with 4 weapon slots. You wouldn't be amiss to carry a gun or bomb around with you as your 4th weapon, for a utility device. Four swords tend to get wasted as you'll never find yourself using all four swords on one floor and will often find yourself in a situation where having a gun or the ability to drop a haze could be instrumental in survival or even just safe passage.
EDIT: reread it and realised that you had an either/or for your teethpicks. Not quite what I thought, but my point still remains something to consider; three spec.type swords simply won't likely all see use on a single floor, but even if you carry the three of them and a gun/bomb, you'll find yourself with a weapon loadout that you won't need to change/alter until you start to craft more and more weapons later on down the line~
Yep, if I get 4 weapon slots I'm not using a full sword, more likely a Supernova/Polaris as a sidearm against Gun Puppies, Devilites and Lumbers, maybe Trojans. That way I'm not completely vunerable against ranged targets.
Supernova is completely outclassed by Polaris. Not only does Polaris deal shock fairly often, but with the elemntal damage it makes it a strong choice against Puppies (even with no gun damage). It will also outdamage Supernova against neutral enemies such as Devils, and the enemies that Polaris is weak against (Gremlins/Beasts) are not enemies that you'd likely be using a Pulsar weapon against anyways, so you're at no loss.
Guess a Polaris is my sidearm for the future.
Just to the make it clearer, I am going to screw Troika and get a DA.
Darkbrady discourages pure swording, for all the right reasons. But I just want to point out that there are people (including me) who do this.
* I know that I'll have the ideal sword for any monster. (But, as Darkbrady says, levels where this matters are rare. So replacing your least-useful sword with, say, an elemental gun is a good idea.)
* I got into this habit before arsenal stations were introduced, letting us change equipment on each level. We used to need more well-rounded loadouts. (But now we can hyper-customize, to encourage players to craft more equipment.) Still, sometimes I'm lazy and don't want to change equipment on each level.
* In some situations, pure swording can be challenging and fun. I'm thinking of fields of turrets protected by spikes. (But really this is an argument against pure swording of course. :)
"[Polaris] will also outdamage Supernova against neutral enemies such as Devils, "
This is false. I know from personal experience and comparison that Supernova (I have one) actually out damages Polaris on neutral enemies in terms of singular bullet damage, and this is disregarding shock; this is because the gun inflicts status Also, just to point out, shock will sometimes root an enemy in place, which nullifies knock back, unlike Supernova. Supernova is simply good for utility and knock back.
But since we're looking at a sword loadout, Polaris would probably be for the best, due to turrets.
On a side note, though, Supernova can trump Polaris in C42, but this may be completely related to preference.
Sudaruska rocks cause it deals pure normal dmg so you can do equal dmg to all monster families. But sudaruska is dreadfully slow so i deffinitely would not reccomend it for use in LD. DA is faster and it has a ranged charge attack but stil sucks vs gremlins and beasts but rocks vs cnstructs and undead so it is good at vanaduke but better on normal vanaduke lvls than at throne room but still.
Nono, it's good to plan ahead. It's better to find out what you want early than have to recraft stuff after investing in other gear.
As for the two swords, it depends. A short answer would be that DA outdamages and outspeeds Suda in most respects (2/3 of targets), but that the Suda is normal type so sustains a regular damage against everything. The charges are up to you really; DA has a three pronged shooty charge that bugs out if your back is against teh wall, while the Suda has a basic face-smashing, double-hitting mega-stun that KBs everything in the world.
Obviously, I prefer the Suda charge, but I'm a fan of KB. The DA charge does KB as well but relies on the projectiles hitting them to do so, and only covers a small arc in front of you, while the Suda targets a radial area.
For some heavier reading on the subject, Bopp and I discussed the two swords at length here:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/41144
(Note that this thread is rather old and some points may be outdated. For one, the Suda charge now hits twice, and does a lot more damage than it use to)
Finally, although the damage differences exist, I also feel that there's a redundancy issue involved in discussions such as these, and that even though the Suda is essentially out-dps'd, that it arguably doesn't actually speed up your kills, due to a hits per kill factor. If this holds true, then you could choose Suda (should you wish it) without having to feel like you're "taking the bad, slow route". At worst, you'll have to swing once more on high hp enemies or in 4man parties; it shouldn't actually slow down your run times.
Again, for some heavier reading on this subject:
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/68061
(This thread uses FoV and Brandishes as an example, but Suda/DA apply just as easily)
Ultimately, it's really up to which you prefer. Imho, even if one was drastically slower than the other, is that really a reason to abandon a weapon that you prefer? Try and choose your sword based on how much fun you have, or how much you enjoy playing with it. Worry about optimisation later, when you have more time/money and can craft everything you need anyways~