Auto Target in PVP is Same As Aimbot in FPS games.

129 replies [Last post]
Irevolutioni's picture
Irevolutioni

Hello Fellow Auto Target Knights, And Legit Aiming Knights.

I'd Like to say that I highly Disagree with Auto Target inside pvp. It is a nice add up in game but it should stick to PVE and not PVP.
Player versus Player is meant to Battle each other and see who is the most skillfull player.
Nowadays all you need to do is to press Auto target and just click and you get kills.
As a Lockdown player I like to see some real challenge by duelling players who don't use Auto Target.
And for those who don't use Auto Target Keep it up and respect.

Iron-Volvametal's picture
Iron-Volvametal

...

Bleyken's picture
Bleyken
-

Join my tourneys.
AA mustn't be removed, people need it for kill me.

Grittle's picture
Grittle
Please, no more AA threads NO

Please, no more AA threads

NO MORE

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

+1 Iron

"Nowadays all you need to do is to press Auto target and just click and you get kills."

Actually, only idiots do that and they get themselves killed. Why? Because they're so focused on one target they can't shift their aim to encompass others, hence screwage from other directions.

Spold's picture
Spold

._.

Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

Go play any FPS on consoles, they have aim assist.

Kive's picture
Kive
lol

@ironskullkid

Nice to see your back, and couldnt have said it better.

Canozo's picture
Canozo
--

Brace Yourselves... Auto target threads are coming...

Our-Little-Ajo
Sad for you kiddo

OOO only listen to people who pay A LOT of USD in the game.

And the ones who pays more USD LOOOOOVE AT

Mr-Baldy's picture
Mr-Baldy
I feel like turning Auto-Target back on.

Perhaps you're just a bit mad because some people are killing you and you do not yet know how to dodge? Auto-Target is more predictable than manual aiming so it's generally a much safer thing to dodge.

Zeddy's picture
Zeddy

Aside from the fact that Lockdown requires a lot more than merely pointing accurately at an enemy and unleashing attacks (timing, dodging, shielding, cloaking, waiting for backup, taking lowered movespeed into account for guns or set movements in account for meleê weapons (which work completely differently from meleê weapons in FPSes)), auto-target in Lockdown is nothing like aimbots in FPSes. Here's why:

In typical FPSes, shots are hitscan. If you point your gun at the enemy's head and click your mouse button, you will hit their head assuming low enough latency. This is not the case in Spiral Knights. The only weapons you could consider "hitscan" are antigua and needlers, both easily dodgeable because both weapons have a delay before firing.

I've been fired upon by AT-using antigua-users. My typical tactic will be to run up in their faces, strafing slightly, while charging my bomb. This usually works out with me not getting hit.

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"OOO only listen to people who pay A LOT of USD in the game.

And the ones who pays more USD LOOOOOVE AT"

Shows what you know. Can you at least stop making yourself sound like a whining 6 year old? I know you can do better than that.

Tenkii's picture
Tenkii
eh, random rant

AA doesn't do anything good for guns vs moving targets.

Congratulations, you aimed at where your target was when you clicked!
> doesn't take into account bullet speed
> doesn't take into account latency.

useless vs moving targets :{

bombs however,
AA bombs are ridiculous.

Lskyx's picture
Lskyx
+1

Remove it.

Makes things more even and removes all bickering.

Canine-Vladmir's picture
Canine-Vladmir
Well Duh

AA is a legal unintentional hack.
Its already been proved.

Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Removing AA is kicking everyone who uses a keyboard or a game controller in the face.

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"Makes things more even and removes all bickering."

If the solution for 'quit yo whining' was 'remove it' for everything, then we really wouldn't be able to have nice things.

We really wouldn't have anything, for that matter.

Not to mention that AT=Aimbot logic is heavily flawed. I shouldn't even have to point out why, but some people quite literally refuse to even try to get it.

Our-Little-Ajo
Remove the crap

Removing AimboT is force the players to play for themself.

Auto-Target = AimboT = I am a bot?...

Our-Little-Ajo
Who's that guy?!

Seriously.. who are you?

Little-Juances's picture
Little-Juances

I hope we can all agree some swords can do very sharp turns or immpossible moves with AA.
Changing just that would make 80% of these rants dissapear.

Oatmonster's picture
Oatmonster
Lick Number 58425

Auto target points your character directly at the target, instantaneously. Aim assist slowly moves your reticule towards your target. Aimbot moves your reticule over the target instantaneously. Auto target is not aim assist. Change auto target so that slowly points your character towards the targeted enemy with slight shifts in speed, and some back and forth variation.

Our-Little-Ajo
It is

Auto Target gives you FAKE range
Auto Target Points by itself, specially after the second and third hit (Flourish line - brandish line - SS line )
Auto Target user + LAG = 10 meters hit

You have to be a complete B%@4H to support Auto-Target.. is like asking Valve to add Aimbot in CS Source.. LAME LAME LAME

Icegill's picture
Icegill
Boom!

@Feller; When I read "LAME LAME LAME", I thought to myself. Thinking of you of course. "SHAME. SHAME. SHAME."

Wodanct's picture
Wodanct

Another childish thread and its filled with the same few people. You can't just turn AA on and instantly hit everything. AA doesn't help guns in LD and it offers 0 help to bombs. AA also isn't an instant win button for swords. If AA helps at all, it helps at making your swing more pixel perfect so you can hit with the tip of your range. Though that is really not a good enough reason to cry about AA needing to be removed and can be rectified with learning to dodge better.

I've played both with AA on and off. It really only changes about 1% of the gameplay if you know how to aim whether its on or off. Really wish the select few in this community would learn about how mechanics work before crying on the forums. Makes me glad I'm not being active atm.

lol auto aim gives fake range? No, it doesn't. It just allows a person a better chance to hit with the very tip of their range. I guess your true aim just isn't good enough either. True aim is something a fluent connection and computer that can run the game nicely can't give.

Spold's picture
Spold

@Traevelliath

I'm a pure keyboard fighter and I don't use auto target. My latency isn't the best latency so I tried using auto target one time and it didn't happen to change anything. Even if I had a computing mouse I'd still use auto target but I'm a laptop user so using arrow keys won't eventually get so hard.

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"Auto Target gives you FAKE range
Auto Target Points by itself, specially after the second and third hit (Flourish line - brandish line - SS line )
Auto Target user + LAG = 10 meters hit

You have to be a complete B%@4H to support Auto-Target.. is like asking Valve to add Aimbot in CS Source.. LAME LAME LAME"

You really are stupid, aren't you?

Auto Target points you in the right direction. It can't 'increase your range'. Stop making things up.
Just because AT points you in the right direction does not guarantee a hit. It just means you're facing the optimal direction for a direct hit; you can still miss, and even if you do hit, you're as open as a turtle flipped onto his back.

"Auto Target user + LAG = 10 meters hit"

...Whoever's giving you your facts needs to be shot. SK doesn't have lag compensation you dimwit, your range remains the same regardless of how shot a computer you're using or how terrible your connection speed is.

Not to mention SK doesn't operate in meters.

"You have to be a complete B%@4H to support Auto-Target.. is like asking Valve to add Aimbot in CS Source.."

You're just yelling senseless fecal matter like a spoil 3 year old now! Seriously, AT=/=AIMBOT, how stupid can you GET? Just because you've had a bad history with Aimbots doesn't mean everything's a freaking aimbot. GUNDAM has a mandatory aim-assist, but even with an in-range lock on you aren't guaranteed a hit, not even with homing missiles. I've attacked at point blank range and still missed because the AI decided then would've been a good time to spam left-dashes.

And if you're wondering, Gundam's aim-assist is such that you can't even fire in any other direction OTHER than directly at your targeted opponent. Granted, you have a whole battlefield to move on and faster evades etc, but the fact remains that you can miss even at point BLANK.

Frankly, you have to be a complete brainless mush to make flimsy arguments like that. You're just spouting stuff without even knowing what you're talking about.

@Juances: Not even that, just make AT so that it's only active during the first stroke of each combo. Logically, in a PvE scenario, if the first hit lands directly, the other hits should more or less follow, enemy AI considered. The Assist should only be needed for the First Strike.

Gunners balance themselves.

Bombers, to Firestorm with them, make it so you can't AT bomb; they're far too OP.

TL;DR: STOP. MAKING. AT THREADS.

Laylla's picture
Laylla
AA bombers, let's unite!

Just because AT points you in the right direction does not guarantee a hit. It just means you're facing the optimal direction for a direct hit; you can still miss, and even if you do hit, you're as open as a turtle flipped onto his back.

Actually using AT requires some skill! You're basically making your life easier by turning it off.
Yes you may eat me now.

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"Actually using AT requires some skill! You're basically making your life easier by turning it off."

It really does. I wondered why I was doing so badly in terms of aiming where I wanted to in PvE, when suddenly I realized my brother turned mine on.

I leave it off because then it's easier to place my hits instead of spamcomboing the same target. Not easy, hitting multiple targets for maximum damage. AT just makes things even more complicated.

Megatech's picture
Megatech
@psycho

Let's read the thread tittle ? :D

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

@Megatech: Let's not be patronizing?

Megatech's picture
Megatech
@psycho

Well it says PVP in the tittle...

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

If I really wanted to pick, I'd note how the past two of your posts don't directly add to the topics conversation either.

But I don't, because it doesn't matter. Unless I'm talking about Magic Unicorns on the planet Ysdopin, then 'Offtopic' doesn't quite count.

In any case, my post, while not relating directly to the OP, is not wholly offtopic.

Megatech's picture
Megatech
@psycho

I'm just saying you suddently started to talk about pve... While the point is AT on pvp, but nvm, I dont want to "fight"( btw It's late here Im not in the mood the read all you type...)

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"I'm just saying you suddently started to talk about pve... While the point is AT on pvp, but nvm, I dont want to "fight"( btw It's late here Im not in the mood the read all you type...)"

Nor am I in the mood to make exchanges with someone who's taking potshots at me apparently to score points, figuratively speaking.

And while you sit here arguing with me whether or not I'm going offtopic, you're dragging the thread more offtopic.

Just because one of my posts suddenly talks about PvE instead of PvP doesn't give you the right to 'give a warning shot' that I'm going off topic, least of all to be patronizing while doing it. I can handle the content of my own posts tyvm.

If you don't want to fight, don't pick one.

Coolnew's picture
Coolnew
- all the players who are

- all the players who are good in LD using AA, can also be good without AA (so it doesn't really matter for them);
- aside for those players, the majority of the remaining ain't so good in LD, with or without AA (so it doesn't really matter for them... often they don't even know they're using AA);
- contri is buying [normal:max, pierce:max] set to survive to my attacks (BTW, he forgot I have storm driver :3).

- the unfair thing is when a random guy who isn't even involved in your fight kills you just because his finger mistakenly fell on the mouse button while he wasn't even watching at you there.
- it
- is
- not
- deserved.
- also it should be good to mentally nail people who blindly spam mouseclicks in the crowd. this is not something related to skill.

- after this: i don't care anymore of AA. I don't use it and I would it to be removed (like polaris knockback) because I would love to have a game without insults, where somebody kills somebody else because he *ment* to do it. but i don't care more than this.

Thinslayer's picture
Thinslayer
Imma throw my dog in this fight.

From what I can tell, Auto-Target can be both a blessing and a curse:

+Since it aims instantly and automatically, swords benefit from it due to being at close range.
-It aims where the target is at the moment, which prevents guns from getting reliable hits.
=It does nothing for bombs.
-It allows both gunners and swordsmen to hunt recons (though gunners still can't hit strafing recons).
+It sometimes allows trackpad and controller users to play more effectively.

I think Oatmonster was spot-on. The auto-target should slowly gravitate the player's aim towards the target, instead of snapping instantly to it. That's my biggest irritation with auto-target, as I have trouble effectively placing gun and sword strikes into mobs of enemies with it on.

But if the developers can't/won't do that, I would recommend that it at least be fixed to prevent the targeting of cloaked enemies (that includes both recons and ghostmane stalkers). That way, its main advantage in Lockdown is removed, while still allowing it to be used at the discretion of the players.

Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Erm... Auto-target doesnt lock onto cloaked enemies...

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"Erm... Auto-target doesnt lock onto cloaked enemies..."

I assume two different possibilities for this:

1) This is a misconception that stems from Recons who upon cloaking are hit by an attack that they think shouldn't have hit them because AT can't target cloaked Recons, when Latency-considered they were not Cloaked when the Attacker pulled the trigger, so they were hit instead. However clientside, they thought they were safe but they weren't, so AT>Recon Cloak.

2) The attacker took a random stab, found an cloaked Recon and attackspammed it, killing said Recon. AT didn't target the Recon, but it did take effect the moment the Recon was uncloaked.

I'm fairly sure AT can't target cloaked Recons.

Speaking of which, they shouldn't be able to target cloaked Chromas either. That kinda kills the whole point of them doing it.

But seriously, I think AT should be restricted to the First Strike of a sword combo. Any further than that isn't really necessary.

Atacii
...

Haven't been on the forums in a little while. So glad I came back. These threads are always awesome. After all, it's not like I hear these arguments every time I PvP. Thanks OP!

Atacii
...

Haven't been on the forums in a little while. So glad I came back. These threads are always awesome. After all, it's not like I hear these arguments every time I PvP. Thanks OP!

Laylla's picture
Laylla
free hugs!

Speaking of LD rage threads, can someone start a Polaris Whining Thread?

Dendios's picture
Dendios
@OP : [ Feller mode engaged

@OP :

[ Feller mode engaged ]

Who r u to say dat u dnt agree wit autoaimzzz in PvP ?

No-AA iz 4 nubs bro, gt a lif bro. ur logic sux bro.

[ Feller mode off ]

Phew...that mode was tiring. Anyways, I will summarize everything in small equations :

Skill + Low latency = No need for AT.

Skill + High latency =/= No need for AT.

High Latency - Skill = Needs AT to survive.

Low latency - Skill = No need for AT, just train

*****************

End of story....

Skyee-Xx

To All of you People that keep whining about Auto Aim/Target:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc_LIR5ExIU

Zaffy-Laffy's picture
Zaffy-Laffy
Zaffy is Laffy

Maybe I should make a video of me in LD achieving moderately acceptable score, among other lockdown vets.

"Skill + Low latency = No need for AT.

Skill + High latency =/= No need for AT.

High Latency - Skill = Needs AT to survive.

Low latency - Skill = No need for AT, just train"

Apparently I fall into the "Skill + High latency" category, and I still don't use AT. AT sucks, doesn't help me hit anything with everyone always moving.

But GUYS! and ladies... please think over who needs AT, who doesn't need it, and stop these threads because they keep popping up like Mcdonalds.

Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion
.

+1

People who use Auto Target (AT) has A LOT of space for improvement.

The only two "legit" reasons to use auto target is bad connection and lack of skills.

What is your excuse for using auto target?

Edit: @post #26

What Feller means is that the range gets maximized because the target can and will be hit even in the periphery of the AT users range.

Psychodestroyer's picture
Psychodestroyer

"What Feller means is that the range gets maximized because the target can and will be hit even in the periphery of the AT users range."

Although that is a good point, to which I'd reply that the 'extended range' wouldn't be all too massive considering one still has to aim in the general vicinity of the enemy, I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant, because although it 'corrects' your aim, that change is slight, and he wouldn't be whining about an alteration that tiny.

But seriously, stop with the AT threads. No offense to the more level-headed AT dislikers, but the majority of the senseless whining is coming from the Anti-AT side. Unavoidable I know, but it's really, really annoying, and while I respect others' right to their own opinion, I'd much rather it not include a flood of screaming rantposts from seemingly preschoolers, which is what threads like these seem to attract like moths to a flame.

Dendios's picture
Dendios
@Theirillusion : There is no

@Theirillusion :

There is no need for excuse because it is not something wrong, but in your logic my excuse would be the high latency, and the inability to move to a location near the server. Second excuse, is when I fight someone ( Example : You ) with VH asi on everything and low latency, of course I'd better use something that will make me survive, which is AT. Please, please stop the selfishness and think about others' needs.

@Zaffy is Luffy-kun :

I would consider myself in the same category as you, looking that I can keep up with some people in LD. And it is true ! AT has disadvantages as it have advantages. For example, when there is 2 or more enemies in front of you, in most cases, you will be able to hit only 1 target, so no crowd damage with AT.

Note : You can do crowd damage with AT, but it is really hard and you have to train on that.

Theirillusion's picture
Theirillusion
.

I only use 1 ASI VH uv in LD and I dont have low latency. I dont use AT to compensate latency. Besides, this is not about UVs afaik.

But anyway, thank you for thinking i must be a UV god with a super connection :)

Dendios's picture
Dendios
Can you please tell me your

Can you please tell me your ping ? And when did I say you use AT ? There is nothing wrong in using it, FYI. I talked about UVs, because people here, think that the AT is unbalanced and should be removed, but I wanted to point out the more important things that removes the balance in LD, which is UVs and Heart Trinkets.

And you think asi High isn't a big deal ? Sigh...

Zaffy-Laffy's picture
Zaffy-Laffy
Zaffy is Laffy

Yes, UVs are balance tippers, but apparently people paid good crowns to get them.
Heart trinkets too, along with trinket slots.

Basically these incentives are achievable, even by the f2p, just that it takes a much longer time for f2p players to achieve them. However, if you would consider the investments in uvs and heart trinkets, they don't make a big deal. But right now the average person has them, so unless you find a way to catch up, you might as well don't bother complaining about uv and heart trinkets.

The only reason LD is unbalanced to some, like you and me is because of lag. LD is slightly unfair to the extent that it is only hosted in US server, giving a big disadvantage to EU players. Not only that, some recipes are only available from playing LD. Lagging means you lose, losing means you get 1 token, 1 token means 300 matches, not 150 (considering you win all of them and there were no bribes)... unfair is unfair.

And don't get me started on "Fresh meat" appearing in LD.