AA is for pros!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Things like the hammer dash behave different with AA. It doesn't just 'aim' but let's you home in and stick to targets.
It also happens with the flourish charge, or any other sword wich propels you forward.

That's my only complaint. It's not OP or anything, just feels weird as if these weapons shouldn't do that.

I don't know why people even bother making these threads. Everything has been said already.
The AT noobs have their opinions and the AT whiners have their opinions.

I'll tell you why;
Long ago pros got mad about getting killed by what they refer to as noobs and ever since then they blamed it on AA, not thinking for a minute they're not invincible in LD and that not because someone isn't at the same gear level means he can't kill you. They created or were part of nowadays mainstream guilds and spreaded this silly idea up to the point where you can get a T2 player in T3 LD accusing you of using AA because you killed him. A real shame.

Haha i love the gun and going to war analogy

Loving that war analogy.

@ Dragneel
Aim and target are synonyms...

Don't even know where to start.

@Canine-Vladmir lol, just lol.

Just because something works well in one part of a game does not mean it belongs in another part of the game. It's a pvp, it's competitive. When a lot of the weapons used have narrow combos with small hit boxes a few inches matter. It might not be as bad when you are a striker but when you are a recon it kinda leaves a sour taste in your mouth because you have to learn to dodge better with limited mobility and then your ability to dodge does not mean crap because someone is using aa and you can't do anything about it. Sometimes it's just people being real good at aiming but because aa is an option it makes people not trust others.

Sometimes aa is not a good thing to use, but there is something to fix that for people adjusted to it. This is a fact that gets ignored a lot but there is a option to have aa be turned off by hitting a key and turned on again by letting it go. Great for the Clockworks, so cheap in a pvp which should not even have it in the first place.

You don't need uv's to be immune to haze bombs.Health has always been sketchy in LD, a weapon should not be able to kill you in a full combo that is 2 hits.

Invulnerable frames keep some weapons from being so op you can't do anything if they get you in a combo, but sadly it also makes them unusable. The time where there were none blitz was so broken it was funny, you could kill a full health guardian in one charge with his shield up.

Just because it's available to everyone does not make it balanced, when monsters have it it makes sense because if they did not it would make a game boring(...) but some people have a sense of honor and know that this should not be in any pvp because it makes a game less competitive and less about skill and more about who can press a button faster than everybody else.

I call it aa and i mean aa. i think of it as a lazy aiming that takes less effort for greater rewards. I've hated it since it's been in LD. i don't think it belongs in ld. i think there should be another set of guidelines because it deserves something different from the clockworks. What works in the clockworks does not work in ld.

No weapons need auto-aim. I don't think I've ever used my WRH with aa. any weapon that NEEDS it is broken.

LD is like any mmo, if you get going at the start you will get good stuff and learn what you need to get better and have enough time to get it before other people start getting high enough to leave others in the dust. if you start late you may never catch up. It might not be fair but that's how they all work.

Some things won't be balanced and people will take advantage of that. They have every right to do cheap methods, does that make it right? no. do some people realize that what they are doing is not right? yes. will they change? no. Will those things be fixed? probably not.

I did not look this over, i kinda stopped caring half way through. i don't know how to end this so i'll leave at that...P.S. most i've written(i think...)

Ahem... time to clarify somethings. "My text down here might be full words in the wrong place, so don't blame me if my English knowledge isn't well-native."

Auto-Aim :

What is Auto-Aim? It is usually a mod or hack in probably a FPS games like Call of Duty/Battlefield etc... What does that hack/mod do? Actually, I never tried one, but the thing I know about it, that there are kinds of it. For example, some Auto-Aim Mods don't aim 100% for you. While there are other mods that allows you to kill someone even if you weren't seeing them, or the enemy being in your screen. I'll try to explain it in my own words, so I might be wrong. It probably scans the map around you, checks if there are any solid bodies *Which they are the other players in general* and adjusts your aim on them directly, to land a shot on them.

Auto-Target :

We use this synonym in Spiral Knights mostly. While it is true that they have the same meaning, but they are different than each other. How? Well, Auto-Target doesn't aim completely for you, it just corrects your aim. What does that mean? It means if you were originally aiming on a player, but with a sloping degree, it corrects in a small degree, to enable you landing damage on him. It does that in a 90 degree radius. It doesn't give you any super powers, magical aiming, instant kills etc... Example : Player X is aiming with a Valiance at Player Y but with a degree of say : 45*, here comes the Auto-Target and corrects that, and make you aim on Player Y in a straight line. That's all. Mostly, it is useful for high-latency players, because they can't really aim well due to the server delays, thus why they use Auto-Target.
.
.
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Hope I explained it well. ( Although I think I didn't... )

Oh well...

Thanks for reading.

~Dragneel

Auto Target is only useful if;

You're playing on a gamepad and need to / want to be a gunner.
Fast sword targeting (i.e Final Flourish) on annoying fiends such as silkweavers / Grievers and also for keeping Blitz needle shots firmly on Vanas' Mask at that stage.

It's got me into more trouble than it's worth keeping it left on though, which is why I learnt to play with it turned off and only 'toggle' it on when in the situation above. I.e I want to kill a more dangerous target first (devilite) and aims for a slow moving jelly / Gremlin Thwacker instead.

I thought we did an experiment on the other thread.
My Average LD Scores: Set Up; Skolver Set, Final Flourish, Gran Fasut, WR Hammer, No Trinkets or boosters, No CE revs and 2-3 bar connection
4 vs 4 match WITH AutoTarget: around 8k-13K damage http://oi47.tinypic.com/157ejxw.jpg
4 vs 4 match WITHOUT Autotarget: around 4K-6k Damage http://oi50.tinypic.com/2rd9jrm.jpg
THATS A 9K DAMAGE DIFFERENCE!!!!

Autotarget is a cheat. Feller and Darkcub is right. Auto Aim makes the noob.

If i said on that thread i was gonna do an experiment, don't you now think I would have tested several times to come out with an average?
NOTE: Those two images were one of many screenshot taken. There the extreme of it. me and a few guild members did several matches. One with AA, on without AA.
ON AVERAGE, an Average Player with AA can do AROUND 8K-13K.
ON AVERAGE, an Average Player without AA can do AROUND 4K-6K.

an actually pro can do any damage, though. Much like my Guild Master ._ . So his scores were omitted

NOTE#2: My post says 4 vs 4 match. the screenshots are not 4 vs 4. I could not find the 4 vs 4 matches so I used the ones i had laying around. (4 vs 4 are the best to prove as its more close quarter maps and theres not alot of "stolen" kills)

@Eclaium :

Well... Auto-apuntar means Auto-Point. And because These Spanish players are using The English Forums they have to talk with everything that implies to English. And they have to talk English with minimum experience with it... but sadly, most people talk in that stupid, idiotic way.

Sigh...

I don't see how having Auto-Target on in lockdown even helps. With most swords (unless mr 180 degree swing flourish) you still have to aim ahead of your target if they are moving to make contact. Not to mention gunners having to aim ahead always making Auto Target pointless, and then you have bombers. While these threads do give some amusement, and in some cases bring up intelligent post... sadly most post in these topics are spam and the same old baseless rantings.

1 more note. This is the English forums. On the english setting it is called Auto-Target. I would really suggest using the spanish forum if they want to use the spanish terms. Then they can also speak in spanish there and then maybe more people will understand their topics that come up senseless when they try to use english. Here let me help. Click the Forums button on the menu bar under Spiral Knights. Above English Forums header click the small forums link. Find the spanish forums.

A lot of FPS games do have aim assist built into them though. Though aimbots aren't exactly the same as auto aim. Auto Aim, Aim Assist, Auto Target, etc etc only refine your aim when you are already pointing at a target. As in making your aim a little more stable. While aimbots do all the work for you. Aimbot is a true point and click while everything else mentioned isn't. How some of these other people talk they act like they can't comprehend what Aimbots and Aim Assist really are.

Console games tend to have Aim Assist. Spiral Knights does allow players to use Xbox controllers on it so Auto Target is a perfectly legit option to have to give it the same ability that console games have with their controllers. Playing with controllers isn't as accurate as a mouse is most of the time.

If Three Rings ever removed the Auto Target option, through there is no proof as to why they should besides baseless lies from a few Lockdown fantics, then they might as well remove the options to use controllers on their game too.

I love how some of these "pros" can talk about Auto-Aim being noob and giving an unfair advantage yet they themselves will be sporting Skolver coats with max shock resistance with other crazy UVS ASI VH toothpicks, Like the general public can afford these advantages. Lord knows killing someone with equipment costing millions of crowns totally not giving advantage (sarcasm) yet as a bomber myself who really only has bombing gear, using a nitrome because a certain person sports shock resistance totally deserves to be spammed in private chat and in public as being some sort of loser despite doing only 3k damage (also sarcasm). It just shows you people, like what Heavy-Dragon said, think that blaming everything else rather than themselves is the only way to preserve what "pride" they have and to show that they have "skill" and it was your fault for using a method which makes it harder for them to win.

So what I believe is that if people CHOOSE to use suped up equipment only a handful can obtain, which the game does allow, then I can simply CHOOSE to tick a box to allow easier aim, which the game also allows. Fair enough

I was going to make mine "oh look, this thread again >_>" joke but Fehzor actually got some good points there so <69.
@Contri, LOL just LOL. Go get some sleep, you're drunk again. O:)

From what I think, people dislike Auto Target or Auto Aim is because they do not like it to be used against other players like said further above. Using it anywhere that isn't in Lockdown would be considered fine. Of course you have a slight advantage when fighting another person in a PvP game head on but it's not like you have let's say increased 40% chance of hitting someone.

For example the Polaris or what people like to call the Trolaris. It is a great gun because of the large explosion when it gets big plus shock. It's great in the clockworks or where ever, but people in Lockdown misuse it to spam those shots. Those spammed shots might cause lagging and of course a "blast wall" preventing some people from moving past it leaving the shooters or spammers safe for the time being. Basically it is another good thing anywhere else except in Lockdown.

What I'm saying here is that some people think these things are overpowering in Lockdown and want it to remain fair. Why do you think people want Auto Aim to be banned in only Lockdown?

What I do not like in Lockdown about Auto Aim is the people accusing others for having it on. Some do and some don't. Some just have good accuracy and can aim as good as having Auto Aim on and these people are accused for using it. I for instance am one of the accused for using it in Lockdown but I don't use it anymore because I pretty much do almost the same with Auto Aim as I do without.

Edit: I can also tell that some other tough players (which I don't want to mention because this might bring something negative or whatever) are good at aiming without Auto Aim. I have watched them fight many times and the way they fight appears different from those that use Auto Aim. I've noticed when using Auto Aim before and from other players is that when using some weapons (mainly swords) that sometimes there is a quick turn movement that seems to follow the targeted player. I've tested it on myself a couple times and it only appears when Auto Aim is in use.

This is why Auto Target is bad relating to spam

I know this is very subtle and hard to notice but Spiral Knights it extremely different from FPSes. FPSes generally use hitscan bullets where aiming becomes the entire point of attacking. In Spiral Knights, you'll often want to miss your target on purpose as a means of controlling your opponent or as a means of hitting them seeing how attacks in Spiral Knights are easily dodged through strafing sideways.

There are some other games where automatically facing directly towards your opponent is a feature packed right in with the game. You might have heard about:
-Street Fighter
-Soul Calibur
-Tekken
-Starcraft
-Diablo
-World of Warcraft
-Defender of the Ancient
-League of Legends

Hey whoa! Some of those games also have world-spanning tournaments going on for them! And there isn't even an option to disable the auto-targeting in them! You're just stuck using auto-targeting forever in those games, and yet they're played by people who are professional at them. Literally professionals. It is their job to play these games and be good at them! How can that possibly be when auto-targeting is for scrubs? You should head over to the League of Legends forum right now and call out everyone on being total scrubs for using auto-aim! Justice must be served! Go tell Street Fighters pros how much they suck!

Edit:
Also, if you went to a Call of Duty forums asking for auto-targeting, someone would point out to you that Call of Duty already has an auto-target button. Go ahead and google "quickscoping". It's common in a lot of console shooters.

You shouldn't be able to touch that amazing player with spam and autotarget. They should destroy you nine times out of ten. And the amazing ones do. The problem is, the not-quite-so-amazing ones should be able to too. Someone who has no skill, and is just blindly spamming with autotarget enabled, wether ir be with gun or sword, should have an extremely minimal chance to hit anyone who knows what they're doing. And if there was no autotarget, that would (probably) be the case. The problem is that the autotarget + spam combination can get you too far.It lets you get hits off, and sometimes kill, players who are at a much higher skill level than you are and should dispatch you no problem. With normal spam you can find patterns, exploit weak points, etc. Autotarget makes up for those weakness. Not entirely, but enough to give those players sucesses they shouldn’t be having. For instance, a toothpick spammer without autotarget is simply a spammer. They wave their pointy stick around in a straight line, and hope something crosses their path. Anyone with some skill can quickly notice the pattern of a “combo spammer”, and take them out. With autotarget enables for the spammer, however, everything changes. What was previously a straight-line toothpick becomes a guided missile. You can come up behind one of these guys after their second hit, and normally they would continue in a straight line and you could beat them senseless. Instead, they turn 170 degrees and stab you in the chest. You can’t dodge them without just getting far away. Autoaim gives them superhuman reaction times and lets them do impossible things. Bottom line, it makes them far better than they should be, and lets them get too far without skill.

Here's my view on this.

First off, what is Auto Target?
+Locks onto the nearest target closest to where you're facing
-Cannot lead targets
-Gives certain items different properties

Those first two are easy to interpret, and are GENERALLY fair, but the most popular weapons used in Lockdown typically have massively wide ranges or are extremely quick. You would have a harder time hitting people in motion with narrow range weapons, but couple it with a wider range, and you miss more or less depending on how 'skilled' you are already (skill meaning how well you can assume where people will go and acting accordingly). It's a blessing or a curse.

But, here's the big part- an AT'd Flourish combo is nigh impossible to dodge without appropriate amounts of zoning, despite how narrow the second and third attacks' ranges are. As others have already stated, stuff like this gives too much of a benefit to the 'unskilled' (you know what, screw 'skill', let's just say 'experienced' from now on). That's one problem.

The third part is the wonkiest. This is the part that makes you 'stick' to enemies with Flourishes and Hammers instead of sliding past them while you're dealing damage. This isn't relevant to PvP since people are always in motion, but it's a pretty big deal in PvE where it takes the ideas behind the Rocket Hammer and scrambles them. A non-AT'd Hammer attacks by swiping past targets and perhaps turning around to finish the combo from the side/behind them, at the cost of leaving yourself open to floor hazards. An AT'd Hammer foregoes the floor hazard issue and instead places you right next to the enemy consistently, trading one con for another- you are now right in the face of the thing that's trying to maul you. Except it's not really a con, since you can just finish the combo and interrupt the thing...

So, this doesn't sound too bad, right? But it is... because AT is completely optional. People who play well without it are generally referred to as 'more skilled' (bleh..) because Auto-Target lowers the skill floor AND ceiling, while non-AT raises both.

The stupid part about this is that AT is complained about like every AT user is also a kitten murderer while there are other things that have this same skill floor-ceiling concept. Unique Variants are a huge one, since not only are they optional, they also require luck/an excess of money. The next is weapon and gear choice. "But you should take advantage of what you can," I've heard some argue. So why doesn't that apply to AT? You're lowering the floor and ceiling with UVs, trinkets, Sealed Swords, Flourishes, and Polaris- why is that okay and AT isn't? You're still giving yourself a (massive) advantage over someone else because of the optional choices that you made, with your near-doubled health, huge range, Shock, and heavy resistances besides. Where do you draw the line? What is the fairest possible loadout and control scheme?

It's that one issue on its own that makes me utterly despise Lockdown and any sort of serious 'skill' competition in this game. It's sickening to see people complain about AT, claiming that non-ATers are the best, while wearing Shock/Pierce/Normal Max Skolver and Max/VH ASI Flourishes with 2 Penta-Heart trinkets.

The worst part for me was that I had to power through this or Blast Network (which loses its novelty quickly and is a competition to see who makes the least stupid mistakes with the best connection) to get some of the more interesting weapons for use in the parts of the game I actually like. The only happiness I derived from it was when I got the last token I needed so I could leave with my new recipes. I have only rarely played either PvP mode since, and only for the sake of playing with guildmates or friends. I'm guessing people will say "oh, you didn't like it because you were bad". Well, I was, starting out. I got good as I toiled away. It was easier to predict what people would do because I'd seen the same things happen over and over and over. I started out complaining about every little thing- AT included- but after a while I just accepted that I was being a dolt and that it wouldn't change, it was not going to be fun with time, I would not be able to actually tell if I was 'better' or not, and that I despise my 100%-completion mindset.

I am not a happy camper.

This vicious cycle won't end...

Fehzor, there is no point of this thread. If your goal was to convince the whiners, Feller and his group, then stop right where you are. They won't listen, use their piece of meat inside their head, try to be civilized. They won't be convinced until people can fly with their own hands. Points of view have been discussed over and over, bazillion times before, and all ended in the same way. Nothing new here; same facts and arguments have been repeated, hence why I think this thread should be graveyarded.

In all ways, thanks for your work. You tried at least...

~Dragneel

Leave console games out of this. They all have corrected aiming. Blame inaccurate analog joysticks.