So before I realized the blitz needle is better, I started making the plague needle cause I thought poison was cool or whatever. How bad of a mistake did I make? Should I craft the plague (I have blight now?) or go back and make a blitz needle
Plague needle
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 05:15
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 06:31
#2
Plague is really bad in comparison to Blitz. It's also annoying to get if you don't like PvP. You'd waste 400 CE if you were to abandon your Blight Needle, anyway. That is a bit. How good is your ability to pay for that? I can imagine you can if you've got some friends you run FSC with.
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 18:43
#3
Andrew
Thanks for the help. Any other opinions still welcome
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 19:14
#4
Just because it has less damage doesn't mean it's inferior.
I don't know if people have addressed this topic but this is the first time I've seen it, so I'm going to drop in and shed some light on the comparison, even if it's just how I feel about this.
Blitz needle's purpose is damage and damage only, yeah. The reason Plague does so little damage is because it would be downright broken (even for SK, I guess) if the damage was anywhere higher / nearly the same. You're not supposed to actually compare it because it has a different purpose, in my opinion, despite that the gun is almost exactly the same in execution.
People underestimate poison's status. It gives your damage a little more kick and gives the enemies way less of one. Have you ever been hit with Vanaduke's charge after him being poisoned? It's like being headbutted by a sleepy puppy; and if you're still learning Vanaduke's patterns, a great handicap to his damage output for when you mess up. Less damage to you means you die less. DPS is great and all, but just because you don't deal the most of it doesn't mean you're useless. There are other benefits to the 'alternative' weapons.
When I'm duked out with full trinkets I have Gun DMG: Max on my Plague and it does 219 per bullet when Vanaduke's poisoned. I think 198 when he's not. That's a huge difference! Just because you're not doing the most damage doesn't mean you're not helping out. That's a maximum of 1095-2970 damage all by your lonesome, not to mention you're further buffing the charges of your teammates WITH Blitz. Can you imagine how fast you could kill Vanaduke with just one Blitz and one Plague?
Even though I can't give you the in-depth calculations I can tell you from personal experience that having a Plague makes a huge difference in speed when doing full-team runs with people that have used Blitz all their lives. I think you should get it. TL;DR It's not inferior just because it does less damage. It's kind of like a support gun. A nasty, vicious support gun with DPS as its secondary.
On the other hand, if you're just trying to get through to 'endgame', a Blitz is way easier to obtain. I forgot about obtaining Lockdown tokens, sorry. But I still don't think you should give up on your Plague. Keep it tucked away as an extra something to use when you're starting to get bored of the grind.
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 19:31
#5
^ Why poison and 'suppor' when you can just kill?
The issue is simple: blitz kills everything, making any extra status irrelevant unless you're fighting Vana.
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 20:29
#6
Because it's fun to be
Because it's fun to be different!
Also, it really does speed up the process, if you're in a full party with nothing but Blitzes. Even if your blitz has Max DMG Bonus the Plague will always boost that with its poison. It seems like a tiny bonus, but multiplied by 15 (and then 3, if you're lucky) anything's huge.
EDIT: Plague can kill most everything as well, if you're going to be like that. Not much can withstand a full charge of either gun, unless you're using it on constructs, or slimes, or something, which I can't imagine why you would be other than you're either ill-equipped or really really deadset on not acquiring more than one weapon type :$
But like I said, it's all a matter of opinion. I like whittling down my enemies' health down with fire, shock, and the like. I like not taking a lot of damage and sacrificing power just for that. Going just for damage isn't fun for me anymore! There's a pro and con to every equip in this game, as much as people will try to convince you otherwise. Do what you want, I just wanted to put in my two cents.
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 22:03
#7
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!
It was proven that a party with 4 Blitzes goes faster than 3 Blitzes and a Plauge. Go as Zeddy.
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 22:14
#8
...
" A knights goal is to kill monsters, a players goal is to have fun "
Yes, it's from bopp.
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 23:19
#9
Ditch it (sell it to
Ditch it (sell it to Quillion) and get blitz. Like I said in some other thread, the autogun lines aren't support weapons; they're one-hit KO machines of destruction which are meant to be used against single targets. The poison status isn't worth for the huge damage reduction (compared to Blitz Needle). Besides, like stated before, a party with 4 Blitzes takes down Vanaduke faster than a party with 3 Blitzes and and a Plague. Proven by Zeddy.
That's Spiral Knights gear balance for you. :D
Mon, 06/17/2013 - 01:22
#10
@Autofire
But Zeddy uses Volcanic Pepperbox...
Mon, 06/17/2013 - 03:53
#11
snap
I just got served. Hahaha
Oh well. That's how it goes, I guess. I don't have a Blitz, just a Plague, so I wouldn't have known. Are there any videos or threads out there as evidence? What about duo/trio parties? Are the end results still the same? I've always just assumed it would have been better to have poison. ): I like poison.
Now I'm just kind of frustrated, really. It would make sense for a Plague to help do way more damage, don't you think?
I'd say instead of the gun getting its power upped, maybe the status itself should get a buff instead-- But this probably isn't the thread for that? (Also, C42 is already a nightmare for me. I think I'd cry blood)
Mon, 06/17/2013 - 04:31
#12
Thanks for the back and forth
Thanks for the back and forth guys! I'm still debating but I'm gonna work on other stuff in the meantime
Mon, 06/17/2013 - 19:05
#13
A tip from a block of cheese
If you are looking for damage, Blitz is the way to go. If you don't care about damage, then go with Plague Needle or Volcanic Pepperbox. They are still useful, but are out shinned by Blitz.
Tue, 06/18/2013 - 23:28
#14
I use my plague sometimes, because I gave it better UVs than my blitz. That way, I have an incentive to use it over the blitz needle.
Wed, 06/19/2013 - 05:56
#15
Plague can still one-shot a Trojan. Only reason you'd want a Blitz is for slag guards and Vanaduke, and even on those Plague will do just fine.
Wed, 06/19/2013 - 13:40
#16
People, just because plague isn't as OP as blitz, doesn't mean that it is not OP. It is still quite OP, and I'd recommend it if you are not one of the FSC grinders
(I think that either came off Echoez, or Zeddy. Or maybe both.)
Wed, 06/19/2013 - 15:01
#17
I use plague.
Because I see blitz too much, they cost the same, They perform the same on non-vana monsters (Where it counts), and plague stops VANA SMASH from making knights have a bad time, which is nice if someone doesn't remember how to dodge.
Thu, 06/20/2013 - 06:34
#18
Wow great points guys! I
Wow great points guys! I really appreciate it. I think I am gonna make he plague needle after getting a few other things done. Only problem is I gotta play ld!
Thu, 06/20/2013 - 17:41
#19
http://forums.spiralknights.c
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/53300
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/35702
Useful maths for us by us. All credit for numbers below between bracket lines goes to the OP, Fradow
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I did this run with a guildmate who has Plague Needle (thanks, Ankokuflare!) and now i have the numbers, in damage per bullet :
On Vanaduke :
- Blitz : 143 without poison 168 with poison, charge = 2145 / 2520
- Plague : 85 without poison, 100 with poison, charge = 1275 / 1500
On a zombie, D25 :
- Blitz : 115 without poison, 141 with poison
- Plague : 72 without poison, 82 with poison
So here are the calculation, assuming Vanaduke is always poisonned (which is, in practice, not the case except perhaps in "pro" run where they can keep attacking all the time)
- 4 Blitz = 2145*4 = 8580
- 3 Blitz + 1 Plague = 2520*3 + 1500 = 9060
Using Plague clearly win if you are on a full Needle user group. That's the case in speedrun groups, but much less in random/ less experienced groups, where you often use Shivermist.
- 3 Blitz = 2145*3 = 6435
- 2 Blitz + 1 Plague = 2520*2 + 1500 = 6540
It's better for Plague, because the poison seems to be a little more than 10% bonus damage. The margin is very low, the real advantage here is to lower Vanaduke mace damage. But since you are probably not going to have poison all the time, Blitz will probably win in dps, in practice (yeah that's redundant, voluntarily).
- 2 Blitz = 2145*2 = 4290
- 1 Blitz + 1 Plague = 4020
When you have 2 or less Needle, no reason to take a Plague for dps.
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If any of you have ever wondered why I sign all my posts ~Luke its so I can access them all in the forums search feature by searching ~Luke
Regards,
~Luke
Fri, 06/21/2013 - 05:23
#20
Its room 3/3 arena undead,
Its room 3/3 arena undead, tier 3, last wave, greavers pop, who here feels safer with plague needle in their hand knowing a few shots may stray?
~NotLuke
Because the forum's built-in search function doesn't perform well, try Google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=spiral+knights+blitz+plague
Let me add one bit of financial advice, that you may know. The upgrade from 4 stars to 5 stars is very expensive. In fact, it costs more than making the 4-star item. In other words, even if you have the 4-star version of an item, you are still less than halfway to having the 5-star version. Do not make the 5-star version just because you have the 4-star version. Don't throw good money after bad. Only make a 5-star item if you really want that item.