I have found out that 000 is removing health revives. I understand how people benefit from it in bad ways but most characters are not very good at this game and die several times per level. Unless energy revives are lowered by a lot a lot of players will find this game very hard and fustrating. I do not really see a way around this if energy revives are lowered, or if energy replenishes about 2x faster. You could make levels easier but most people would not like this.This is a petition against the removal of health revives. Do it for the new players who are bad at this game. Do it for them because you used to be like them.
No health revives?
1. Emergency Revives that can be used once per level
2. Difficulty options
3. Sparks of life as rare drop from monsters
You won't have a problem unless you die a lot by purposedly chosing a level/difficulty you're not prepared to.
Agreed. Besides, it is not only new players who get the blunt end of this sword to the skull; remember the servers appear to be running off of potatoes as a way of supporting clean energy, and i am sorry... but LAG KILLS!!!!! That is the biggest problem: any time i get a ping spike i can count on being dead and, therefore, now needing to chuck out 10 ce on this. Couple that with the inevitable spike in prices this will result in, and it can be punishing if you are not equipped with a wireless internet connection fit for military use. Add on that, regardless of skill (let us all admit to it and not argue it) everyone dies at least once in a while.
Add on further that, since OOO is CLEARLY concerned about detrimental effects on team play (based on the statement they made as to why) how about we bring up that it is killing the "team play" dynamic for this game: with health sharing, we could coordinate our revives and divide our health in such a way that we ARE better off than having one player with the health all his own (think about it: will having 4 bars of health against a trojan serve you better alone or divided into 4 one hit kills instead of one?), and that we can have a chance to continue to add to team firepower if we happen to fall without costing the team or ourselves money. Now real money has entered the equation, and i promise you: NO team member will be willing to help the placid, fallen corpse of the newly-declared 9-4 or soon-to-be farmer doing his first FSC; and team members most certainly won't care about looking out for their other members... after all, they are clearly bad to have died anyway, and you aren't going to give away free money for the sake of their well-being. I reprieve my previous statement on the feedback forum: Health revs are ALWAYS less annoying and frustrating then those derived from spending REAL MONEY (ce). The fact is when you look at it, this is not to the favor of teamplay and is either in the name of money, or foiling heat-vamps. Three rings, if you are this angry about heat sharing, just make it a heat loss for the one revved, and DON'T give said heat to the reviving player. In regard to this fact, it should be said that this leaves only the option that it is because they are corporate money vacuums... if you have to force people into paying for your premium currency, you are marketing wrong. And in regard to the changes that were made as "counters", i say:
1. Fixed prices don't matter if you have to pay them every time you die, assuming you have human reflexes you probably die more than once if you are anything shy of perfect for connection and skill (perfection of skill in this case meaning: the ability to evade everything no matter how cramped the space is, or wether or not you see the hit coming, or how quick the attack is. Something, which, inherently, NOONE has. Period.)
2. "Oh goody! Spark of life! Now i can get up on a set time after i die... for free!!!! Who cares if it is right in the middle of the box-in of enemies that just killed me and trapped me in a corne-wait... what?" Yes... spark of like AUTO revs you... if you died being surrounded, there will be no waiting for them to clear the path for you to escape, you are revived whenever the game code sees fit. Meaning it will not be nearly as potent as a normal revive anyway, because it puts you RIGHT back in the situation you just died in only seconds after you died... so... anyone else ever been charged and maced into a corner by vanaduke, trapped there to meet certain demise? Yeah... so it is a little redundant anyway in about 60% of deaths not caused by lag AT LEAST.
3. Let us be honest, regardless of the former note; it is still a free rev. This means that since it is the only FORM of free rev, everyone will hold on to them and keep them for themselves. Simply put: NOONE WILL EVER BE WILLING TO GIVE UP THEIR CHANCE AT LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF SOMEONE ELSE. It is that whole factor of self-centeredness that humans naturally have. It is why you don't punch down someone who points a gun at someone else: You fear that it is not to the benefit of YOUR safety to protect THEIRS. This is human behavior, and you can't deny that between that and the fact that noone wants to spend their money on everyone else, noone will honestly even care about their team anymore.
4. Combine with the fact that more party members simply means more health on enemies now that are ALREADY strengthened if you hope to earn the most out of that FSC run, and congrats! You have officially made parties a horrible choice! Now having killed parties, how about next thing we do is kill off the item trade and remove unbinds on 5* gear? And how about we make it code-wise required that you purchase 750 energy a month just to keep your account? Let us make revives in PvP cost money and not be free, and make the timer instead function to boot you to spectator if you don't? How about buffing polaris and auto target? And let's further kill alts, and make vana runs only bring in 1000 cr!?!?!?! What? Will be non-beneficial to the playerbase as a whole? WHEN HAVE WE EVER CARED?!?!
In general, i am not sure what went into the cooler when this idea was made. I hereby jump on with you on this petition... not that OOO won't graveyard it by noon today ANYWAY
Like me people are very bad at pve even 5 star people die in pve while the person with 2 star doesn't die at all. The current reviving system is the best system. Many people will fail missions because of this and the new looting system will not help this. And people will take longer because they have to stay alive because they have no energy. This won't promote teamwork because everyone is looking out for themselves and this will actually cause anger.
i like to bring my alts on missions and then revive them for heat, but if they're taking it away, how am i supposed to do this anymore ('-' )
on the other hand, this gets rid of the annoyance of random players asking for a revive every 5 seconds, then making my health cut in half, and then me getting killed because i wasted my life on them.
overall i'm indifferent about the subject.
if it comes, fine, if not, okay.
{although sirus has a point, new players will get destroyed laaaawwwlllss}
I dont think SK would be so ignorant and put no health revives for no reason. Health revives help with many things sk might have forgotten, like teamwork, there is absolutely no reason to take them out. its just a sign that OOO might be trying to end sk's population.
Also i heard that you need to get your own crowns. What about those new people that need help? they going to die a LOT on runs. For me, i carry many people in vana! I do this because they usually need crowns, or heat, or both!!! It isn't fair to punish them for needing to heat quick, or earn crowns quick. I still wonder why SK would do something this ignorant. Isn't there a team that discusses? Seriously i thought admins were supposed to be smart.
@danielflame good point. and think of mist servants. i wonder how this will affect that ('-' )
Though Nick hasn't stated it directly, these changes in the revive system are to stop alt dragging.
as i said: can't we just have that 30% of heat be destroyed and call it a day? You can't tell me they believe the only people capable of dropping dead are alts.
Perhaps they want to make something that is broken just so they can fix it and pretend they work to our benefit?
Though Nick hasn't stated it directly, these changes in the revive system are to stop alt dragging.
Huh, so that's why. As annoyed as I was getting at people who were carrying alts to Vana I never made the connection.
@Destroyerofthenort "as i said: can't we just have that 30% of heat be destroyed and call it a day? You can't tell me they believe the only people capable of dropping dead are alts."
Heat isn't the main problem. Crown farming is.
After the update, alts will have to pay to revive before every party button and collect the crowns manually.
I like the new revive system. why?
1: kills use of alts for farming. I hate people who do that more then Nazis.
2: I get a free life each level. I normally only die once when I am solo so this is nice :).
3: I can get the revives for free form just playing the game.
@OOO
please make the sparks of life a arcade only drop. Thank you.
@Little-Juances
In all respect, i must remark on how you will take a sentence/paragraph that has no shortage of RELEVANT content or a valid point behind it, and pick out the most insignificant detail, and proceeding to respond to me for it like it was my main point; or how you seem to be less than adequate at interpreting anything that is not a blatant statement of the point it aims to get across... not even mentioning the way you seem to regard me is outside of the realm of even a pseudo-well-mannered format, you are usually pretty blunt about it... and that is coming from someone who can be pretty blunt themselves (like, now after the 5th repeat of this pattern, for example). Perhaps i should just expect less from people.
In this case, the main point was that this was a bad idea for a means of killing off alt farming, and that there are plenty of ways to target it specifically... no shortage of ways to directly attack it exist. An idea that comes to mind is detecting wether an account is signing in from the same computer or not, and locking it out. Plenty of games do that, and you can't aim to tell me that a game backed by sega (may not be making consoles anymore, but they are still a large game company nonetheless) can't afford the technology most indie games can. The mention of heat farming was simply made to provide an example of a form of farming that alts are made to take advantage of, and a DIRECT solution; as to show that alts can be stopped much more directly.
Instead, they took the low thinking, high-effort solution a 6 year old could have devised; that does work well (or could), but DESTROYS gameplay in the grand scheme of things. Seeing as that was likely ALL you read based on how you function, let me throw in once again that NOONE will ever revive a team player or care for them. Also note that because of this, for some people, parties will be WORTHLESS altogether; since they now gain nothing to pin leftover team health on at a boss on to avoid a TPK, and cannot depend on being able to be helped up by them at all; and now only act COUNTERPRODUCTIVELY for the people that (to reference your earlier post) "won't die much", in giving the enemies more health, making these people who "won't die much" die more, and when they do, they are left helplessly dead and uncared for by their party. I would not be surprised if it destroys parties altogether. while soloists are okay with this, one cannot ignore that THIS IS NOT HOW MMO'S OPERATE, AND (if we are to believe the initial post nick made) FAILS TO DO THE "OBJECTIVE" OF MAKING "NO REASON TO NOT GO IN PARTIES"
@Waffleconecake
1. Plenty of better ways to do that which don't involve making it harder on LEGITIMATE players... heck, most of them are EASIER than a full re-write of the energy system, as i said. Plus, it should be noted that on reflection it may not actually kill some alts. The alts mist is perfectly expendable, not to mention a single vana run is only half of 100 ce/mist, and almost noone actually goes all the way. As a result, if they DON'T spend the full tank, they can profit off of it or at least break even... even if they DO spend it all, then simply send the 100 ce's worth to the other account, and wait. In practice may not work, therefore, ANYWAY!
2. Good for you, but the issue is that this is an MMO. They aren't supposed to encourage solo play, there is a reason it is something people do in most MMO's to display skill. Plus, i am now obligated to ask how close you are to where OOO is, because lag seems to be no issue where you are if i am to go by what that statement implicates to me. If not, i then am obliged to ask how many high-max UV's your items have, and wether or not you are all 5*, and why you aren't using those half-second reflexes in professional sports where you could make money off of them.
3. And previously, you could get them free from just being with one other person, without depending on a rare drop you will only find about one time every 500 kills. Seriously, we don't even have a charted drop rate for them yet that i know of. They either aren't in the testing server yet (which i doubt on account of having been able to use one of the "free revs"), or will drop less often than most items. Same holds true for alchemy orbs. They certainly aren't as common as any mat, to say the least.
To answer your questions I live in California, I do get a bit of frame drop every now and then.
Half second reflexes don't make you good at sports. Training makes you good, reflexes help. I decided to "train" in my room on a computer with people who I like, not out in a field around bugs and dirt bag jocks who were less attractive then the thing in my pants.
None of my equipment have any uv above medium, if even there. I do have 5 star equipment but I am mainly using my 4 star skelly armor with my 5 star skelly helm for heating means. I reticently got the 3 star merc slime set so I'll be heating that too.
Now single gameplay is more valid
Loot is ALL MINE
Heat is ALL MIIIINE
EVEYRHTING IS NOW ALLL MIIIIIINEEEE
EHRMAGHERRDHDHDHDHFASDFSDHGKAJDFADF
*Foams at mouth and dies b4 able to play SK*
The half second reflexes was more of a joke aimed at lightening the mood. I myself would probably not go out and risk a broken limb if i had them, odds are... but some could use it to their advantage in the field, so semi-relevant.
You are actually closer to three rings than i am... you are in the same state, in fact. Admittedly, lag may not be entirely associated with area... but i find it worth noting that i am not referring to simple framerate drops alone... yes, they occur for everyone (only really works to strengthen the weight that sits on the point of having to pay for all revs being ridiculous... one framerate drop and we loose 10 energy with no alternatives in most scenarios. What? you were hoping they would improve their servers any time soon?), but then there is going through a whole FSC run wondering if your modem has been replaced with a potato. Where if there are more than 3 enemies on the screen at once, you have instantly horrid framerate. Again, it may not be my area, but my lag has done it all... frameskips, frozen in place, everything going into "zombie mode" (where things will appear to be doing the same action with no change in AI instruction and you will seem immune... meanwhile in reality, you are getting slaughtered), the more simple form of lag freezing where everything stops altogether for about 2 minutes, and even DC'ing and not allowing me to sign in without restarting the program and connection 3 times over. There was a point when i logged on and was taken by surprise by this... where i had actually declared it the worst the connection has ever been... now it is regular, and the formerly stable connection is a rare sight.
If i spiral into death by fire, if i try to do a combo and instead do a charge, if my computer catches up frames only to find myself figuring out that i was shooting about 1 meter away from the target, or any of this ONE MORE TIME; I will be forced to run the assumption that their servers are operated by hand crank. With THAT kind of lag (that is the only thing i am able to associate with lag, because that is what i go through... i don't even WANT to know how bad the servers in asia are....), i can't imagine anyone who can stand up and say they can do vana in mostly 4* with, say, maybe 2 5* items in their arsenal as a grand total, with only 1 rev per level (including on the boss), and repeat the results on a regular basis... and if they can, they can't maintain a straight face the entire time. Like it or not, FSC is the only way to really be earning the most out of your energy (unless you have OCH and do it in T3, which earns you the same amount with the same number of levels ANYWAY), and i don't know about you, but i don't quite like the idea of spiraling into fire on account of lag meaning i have to dump energy into getting back up; all while trying to earn up to a full 5* set.
i also apologize if that last post or even this one sounded rude and riddled with accusations, by the way... I am just not the least bit happy to realize these changes are to be set in stone any day now. It is a rather touchy subject to me, and the only good thing it has to offer is battle sprites... the rest is neutral and bad for me; didn't exactly take too kindly to the tone Little-Juances had addressed me with either... for the 6th time now on my posts... i don't take kindly to people who can't understand a main point or show at least the decency not to repetitively pick away at them, especially not in the manner i am interpreting him to be
lol knotchqwerty... that reaction made this day of forum browsing just a little better
Seriously OOO, if this game wasn't p2p enough.
@Waffle
Alt Accounts use the same mist energy, exept if you payed something with a character, this character will have a different mist tank. For Fsc, you need the gear and the access(or someone who can invite you) wich takes playtime too, so it isn't like complete "farming".
Farming wouldn't happen if every level would have around the same amount of crowns, and a fair energy price.
Spiral Knights has many "cheap-deaths", For example too hard missions, scuttlebots that can shoot trough walls, lag(ok, this is client side) and random heart boxes, wich are random, sometimes they are there, sometimes they aren't, sometimes you get so much hp and sometimes you get nothing. And don't forget the non working shield and the cheap boss invinciblity frames(i hit the bell and snarlborax was next to it, but he didn't get stunned, twins can't get stunned from the rockets while doing certain attacks...).
Seriously OOO, if this game wasn't p2p enough.
@Waffle
Alt Accounts use the same mist energy, exept if you payed something with a character, this character will have a different mist tank. For Fsc, you need the gear and the access(or someone who can invite you) wich takes playtime too, so it isn't like complete "farming".
Farming wouldn't happen if every level would have around the same amount of crowns, and a fair energy price.
Spiral Knights has many "cheap-deaths", For example too hard missions, scuttlebots that can shoot trough walls, lag(ok, this is client side) and random heart boxes, wich are random, sometimes they are there, sometimes they aren't, sometimes you get so much hp and sometimes you get nothing. And don't forget the non working shield and the cheap boss invinciblity frames(i hit the bell and snarlborax was next to it, but he didn't get stunned, twins can't get stunned from the rockets while doing certain attacks...).
"Alt Accounts use the same mist energy, exept if you payed something with a character, this character will have a different mist tank. For Fsc, you need the gear and the access(or someone who can invite you) wich takes playtime too, so it isn't like complete "farming"."
MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS AT ONCE. No one is discussing the use of multiple characters one by one.
Open 4 clients and 'play' with them together. You can invite yourself. Only one needs to be fully equiped, the others can be invited even if they have proto armor. Their only purpose is to collect crowns, not fight. And anyone with a cellphone can unlink their mist for $1 using Boku.
i should say, to block alt dragging, this plan is the stupidest thing. FIRST, they MENTIONED the change of revive system is to enhance teamplay, they should have just mention is to stop the alt dragging. changing the revive system i can only see they are promoting solo farming.
@waffle yeah u can solo so u dont even mind, coz the rev system affects greatly on team runs, not for solo-ers. If i can imagine, there will be no more fun for team runs. i used to die alot in team runs, they revived me without hesitating. and now, my fellow random party members died alot, i revived them without hesitating. it's more fun playing together. Can u imagine when ur team mate running and just leave u laying on the floor, dead? they dont care about you and u just staring at them playing, what is the fun in it?
if u dont like random party, u can just simply leave the party or play with ur friends. Y would you even want to do run with them and leave them laying on the floor when they died? i dont think the new revive system helped promote teamwork at all.
to block alt dragging? are u guys jealous people farming more than you? like i said, u can just simply leave the party if u dont like it. if it's against the rule, report it. imagine the new revive update, when no one wants to waste their revive on others, wont it be more burden when 2 or even team members died? no one is willing to revive. still worse than alt dragging.
Your teammates are supposed to protect you so you don't die in the first place. That's how parties should work.
Rather than having friends so they revive you for free while you banzai charge the whole room, you'll have to stick together and properly coordinate your attacks.
It actually enhaces teamplay, in an evil way.
you can't start multiple clients, there is a message that the client is already running.
well at some times u will run at different paths to conserve time. and when u stick u know lots of accidents happen. how well you think it might be when u try to coordinate ur attacks. there will always be someone who "accidently" shove the mobs at you, and u get hit although u tried to stay at a distance becoz of low health and u die.
no one would want to purposely die in party runs. u know, somehow when u died u will get a lil of embarassment. unless my team mates is trolling.
blitz, multiple clients can be running at once, but you can start only one at a time. that is, start one, log on, hit start button/ ctrl+alt+canc/ whatever makes you go to the desktop, start another, repeat until you have 4 clients running, go on FSC, invite yourself, get 4X money.
I've seen a BN match been rigged this way.
no, there is a message on steam if you try to launch a second client, and no client starts if you play the non steam version
sk already made it so stuff like vana is harder if more people come, so why stop it!!! its making the game harder! its already WAY too easy. so do u wanna ruin our fun sk D=
There are other ways around a problem.
The old system meant you could have it easier, but if you had low health, or a bad teamate, things were tough.
Man, I don't hate OOO, but even I know you could just restrict people from adding alts in parties while two or more were logged on.
But this is just silly.
*Waiting for locked thread.*
Agreed. There are no shortage of ways to keep the same person from logging into the game from the same system. This is certainly not a good way of going about things.
Now ce cost 50 per revive now. Meaning that if you are a new player using mist only, you can't die three times. In JK there are people who are 5 star who die all the time. This means they cannot revive 3 times without wasting ce and having to grind more to buy it.
I have been playing for 2 years and i don't want this game to lose popularity. At this rate it is gonna go away and half the people will quit.
Good way to kill the game.
There are many good f2p games, or cheap games (bundles), so why stick with one that developers dont care about players.
energy price - fuuuu
free rev gone - fuuuuuu
For god's sake, elevators are going to be free. If you die, just start again from the beginning until you're good enough to clear levels with one death or less per floor.
This is the best thing they could've possibly done about revives.
I did not know elevators were free. However at least bump the price back to 10 ce 20 ce at most. This still punishes SL players who die all the time. And individual loot is still a problem.
i like to bring my alts on missions and then revive them for heat, but if they're taking it away, how am i supposed to do this anymore
This is exactly why the Rev and Loot system is getting changed; to phase out such a thing. Besides, the lifts will be free so there'll be no need to alt-drag. Play the game properly.
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I did not know elevators were free.
However at least bump the price back to 10 ce 20 ce at most. This still punishes SL players who die all the time.
If you make it too cheap there won't be much of a penalty for dying; at the current price it'll encourage you to die less. Even if you do die you get given a "generous amount of health" anyway, and along with the one free revive per floor they're adding I don't exactly see how that's so punishing.
____
And individual loot is still a problem.
The intention is to encourage teamwork by sticking together rather than rushing in and killing as much as possible before your teammates do. It's only a problem if you're not teamwork-savvy.
I understand what you guys are thinking but you must look in the perspective of the newbies. 50 ce is too punishing at least from stratum 1-3. And I apologize but I have been looking all over the test servee threads not seeing this. In depth 14 of JK, the second depth of the shadow of the beast and depth 25 of Vanaduke people split up into groups of 2. If one group finishes first, they go help the othee group. This is very efficent, and helps finish levels in no time whatsoever.
Most deaths in Stratum 1-3 come from newbies who don't shield because they think they can just go full-berserker on enemies without repercussions. More emphasis needs to be put onto the importance of shielding if you ask me.
You'd have to go as a group rather than split up. 4 people working together can clear one room in pretty much the same amount of time as 2 knights clearing one room each.
I have new found respect for Misty-Wellington. She is now Respected above average.
I have even less respect for blitzsonic. He has reached grounded-neverdead level.
I have had no change in opinion towards Sirius-Voltbreaker. He is still a neutral .
I have had no change in opinion towards Zeddy. He is still highly respected.
I have lost respect for Danielflame. He is now seen as a casual.
This has already been answered somewhat but here goes
Energy revives do not increase in price
there is also "Spark of Life" which can revive
there is also a new differeculty setting being put in
^ if I remember correctly :P