Not sure if this is already implemented, but if you finish a level with your emergency revive intact, you should be given full health. I suggest this to avoid having to wait on players backtracking for a means to suicide. Cuz they totally will.
Discussion thread for upcoming patch
Yep,
I have enjoyed paying for my ele passes, every month. Know this new update will force me to purchase ce.
Believe me , there gonna make there money of this new update. Newbies wont stand a chance in clock works with revives at 50ce are what ever its gonna be called after the update. I like the revive system the way it is know. I'm sure alot of people wont be happy with the new revive system. once its fully intact. SL runs will be a nightmare at 50ce revives. But will just wait and see. What do i know.
Oooh! Atacii brings up a good point!
Devs go read what Atacii said!
Some people are worried because of nothing.
Pokemon colliseum NOW !!!!!!
but I'm still really curious why removing health revives and adding an auto-revive was deemed necessary.
Me too. Most of my deaths - hell, getting damaged at all - are often the result of impaired reactions to monster attacks due to lag, so this is going to kick me in the teeth.
Liking the removal of the Mist system though. I suffer from occasional disconnections and almost always can never get back on; so at least I won't be ranting about a waste of Mist anymore.
If you think about it... all those energy you give to the elevator, minerals, energy gates, etc. , we could be giving the core an exponential amount of things that it can't take in anymore, thus there is an imbalance. The Core is now getting corrupted and is feeding off the mist in the air and causing the planet to change its phase and things are changing around the clockworks.
The Mist is sucked dry and Knights can't regenerate anymore thus are forced to ration their reserves. All the elevators are now in Code Red and everything is now accessible. I think the planet is wanting you to come to the core cause we are about to approach an apocalypse. Remember that we would have to prepare our guilds soon for a battle? Well... I think this is a sign saying we are near a war soon. Prepare Knights, for the battle that is "The Swarm" , "The Crimson Order" and "Opening of the Core" is approaching! Keep Feeding the Core to the point that it wants more than your goodies, it wants a taste of Knights!
~Zeakstarwind
Yeah I just went and said it =3, Can't break me!
EDIT: @ Little-Juances: It's more or less taking back the mist and is wanting it all and more than mist. it is also wanting the Knight's energy too. If I'm wrong, oh well, it's been awhile haha. Just having some fun, nothing wrong with that? Right...Right!!? Good =3
I guess I can't really decide how I feel about this until I try it. I mean battle sprites is a "yay", but not quite sure about the lack of health revives. For me it doesn't matter because I barely die, but I guess I won't be reviving anyone else anymore. And um...the economy is going to go a little haywire...but I don't really mind considering that the good items on the auction house are already too expensive.
Also, @TimeHeart, I don't think new players will have a hard time with the 50CE revives. First of all, they get a free revive each floor, so one mistake is accounted for. Also, there are sparks of life to revive players, and these are dropped by monsters and can be brought, hopefully for less than 50CE. On another thing you said, why would you have to pay for CE? You essentially have infinite elevator passes, so you can grind crowns and buy CE with in-game currency.
Wasn't mist coming from the core? The core simply stopped producing it. Like a sun slowly dying.
It will take approximately 48 hours after the update for CE to drop.
All indications of current rise are simply erroneous speculation, and big shots playing the pump-and-dump.
48 hours will be how long it will take for people to realize:
They won't get 100 free energy everyday.
That crowns will have to be picked up, manually, and individually, and no one but themselves is responsible for this, as loot pickups are not shared.
CE will decline to match this, dependent on what ooo fixes loot payouts to.
This update does one thing exceptionally well, and that's killing alt-farms. Right now, everyday, tons of free energy is being dumped into the game, and most of you consider things 'stable'. Alt-farming requires 5 minutes of your time, and unlimited amounts of mist energy from alts can be cashed out for all kinds of things. This update fixes that. Farming now requires the time it takes to run through a level, kill everything, and pick everything up. This isnt ideal, and the time spent really isnt worth the payout. But! to a new recruit, their time is worth the grind, and in hopes that they reach the point it is not and decide to buy CE, ooo wants to see the green. GG on that, it works well and makes a fair marketing image.
Those who think 'unlimited level farming' will flood the game with crowns, simply dont understand how ooo can control loot drops and payouts to prevent this.
-tw
I hear they are renaming the current material after me. I approve.
> Wasn't mist coming from the core? The core simply stopped producing it. Like a sun slowly dying.
And what happened to the elevators and alchemy machines not to require it anymore?
Though I like the idea of making the changes lore'd, kinda like how FFXIV is doing the whole Realm Reborn thing for the reboot.
I realy have a bad feeling about this,Nick...
You know,many people are saying that the mist-engine is bad for limiting you but they dont realize a thing:its one of the most original and balance-keeping thing in this game,same applies for the health revives.
Its very concept alone is a thing that probably hasnt been explored in any other MMo to date,and also its what keeps us on a controled(and healty) basis.In many other games you can just go GRINDGRINDGRINDGRIND until youre sleeping in front of your laptop,but in this game you have a daily basis of adventure,in which if you screw up,you gotta wait to recover (and while youre at it,you might as well make friends to waste time with.)
Yes,by superficial logic,giving less limitations to one incentivates his will to experiment,but the type of lock that youre breaking wont open the way for more experiments,it will open the way for more GRINDING.
Im REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALYYYYYYYYYYYY glad you decided to hear us and remove the loot idea.But still,you only heard to half of what we said.
Removing the health revive is almost as bad as removing the energy.The most comfortable feeling about traveling with others(aside the feel of co-operation)is the safety that even if you die,someone will share a health with you and you'll be back to action again(when youre safe that your team is capable of surviving the level,that is.),removing that for a revive that requires some type of payment is just...bad,specialy for cases where you die for lagspikes and off-game distractions.And also,theres the heat-sharing that gets trown off too.
Im very away from believing you give importance about what I said,but well,this is just the natural will to express ones opinion acting upon me...
Edit:Ok,now that I've realized,most of these arguments are product of my fear that this game will be ruined,so please take that in fact.
I'm reading and hearing things about items leveling that do not please me. At all. I realize now why you didn't go into details about Fire Crystals, knowing how controversial the whole concept is...
Im REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALYYYYYYYYYYYY glad you decided to hear us and remove the loot idea.
Wait, they did? Where?
They made so the loot don't disappear after some time, though you still have to run around the stage like a headless chicken. So I guess you can say they heard half the thing, at least (or the whole thing that the majority/minority who just disliked that part said, idk, too many posts on the test server for me to read through it all).
Hey folks. :3
I'm new to these forums, but I played this game back when it first came out on Steam. I found it fun and awesome! I loved the Zelda-esque feel it had, and I loves the way we craft items.
Of course, that's when I found out that we had limited energy, and once its gone, we couldn't play anymore for that day, as it would be better to have 100 energy than to go to each level with just 10 energy, and then I found out I couldn't get higher than a rank 3 item because crafting those took 100 energy. Sure I could try to find a merchant to buy them from, but I'd never have enough crowns to get them. Crafting was pretty much the most cost-effective way to get good items for me, but I hated how it made it to where I couldn't play with my friends anymore for that day.
Now I hear that the energy thing is being completely reworked. To me, this is probably the best news I've ever heard regarding this game. Dashing and Shield Bashing? Eh, that's neat. Colosseum? Eh. No longer limited in play time because of an evil mechanic that would force you to buy more energy in order to just play the game, thus making an astounding game a literal "pay to play"? Hallelujah, I'm coming back!
At any rate, I hope to become more active here now that I can actually play the game for more than a just a little while a day. :3 ( Well... once the update hits, that is. :P )
It's hard to say for sure if this update will prove good or bad for SK on an economical stand-point, but it shall be upon us soon enough.
SO IT BEGINS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNXctoh4q0U
I know I've been nagging about mist few times already but I'm attached to the existence of mist. But After thinking about for a while I wonder if we can find a way to still have mist energy!
I know that that the producers of spiral knight are trying to improve the game by responding to many of the complaints it has received in the past, mainly the limitation on how many levels you can play. In this case mist has cause major problems. Because mist take 22 hours to recover those who rely on mist to get the maximum game time are discouraged from use mist energy's other uses such as opening prize gate, danger room, power up mecha knight (then again they're insanely weak after tier one) and mecha turret's and reviving.
But now that elevators no longer have a cost and now player can use there mist more freely through out the clock works. This even may open new windows of abilities and environmental features that rely on the use of mist energy. With the now removed elevator cost mist can now play a more dominate role in aiding players as the play.
Another issue I failed to mention is the removal of health revives. I know it sometimes drains the health of the overall party but what if we get stuck in a party where no one wants to waste a spark of life on you in order to revive you? There are people how die a lot due to many reasons and it would be a shame to have to wait to be dragged until the next level to be revived.
Actually here's a better question what going to happen to the achievement "walk it off" which requires us to revive a player with one pip of health?
This is where mist energy can play role again and still be use to revive your self or other without the worry will I run out of mist and not be able to do more level.
So far I like it.
Battle sprites, im pretty excited to get one and try it out. Always good to see a new companion at your side :) ....but still havent decided how to name it (Goodlink is sad). Going with Seraphinx, seems like my style, playing safe and helping teams mates in need thanks to his habilities. Perfect.
Difficulty Modes seems good.
Energy System Changes will be indeed a big change and I like it, for the most reason, to encourage players to explore and enjoy the arcade clockworks even more without having trouble to waste to much mist energy just because of low loot.
And Battle sprites will need our full atention to level up, so one more reason go to different missions and dephs to look out for materials for them.
The only concern here is the economy, if everything becomes to expensive because of the elevator not costing anything, but its nothing that cant be solved, more content and more ways of use of CE and its all good.
Orbs of Alchemy for Crafting. Purchasing the orbs is not very different from what we do with the current system of bying CE, but giving it also as a drop seems nice, so it wont be a problem at all to try out this new feature.
Sparks of Life for Reviving. This still buggs me a bit, really liked the old reviving system, it would give the co-op experience more sense in helping and sharing health with your fallen party members, but even so, Im looking foward to see how it will turn out. For solo runs is indeed amazing.
The cost of the spark of life is reasonable since elevator costs will disappear, and players will always have that emergency revive per deph so its more than fair.
Star Levels and Equipment Availability. Only time will tell, but if this includes that new players are restricted to join higher missions like a 2 star joining for FSC, then its good.
Fire Crystals for Equipment Leveling, still didnt understand very well.
Can't wait for the patch, for what ive read so far seems good, big changes will occur, and its always difficult to accept it, but we cant say that its all bad, because the patch wasnt released yet, and at some point the game had to move on, and if OOO has decided this is the right thing to do, we should support them.
Thanks for all the great work OOO. Keep it up.
No one really knows if this update will be good or bad for both, SK economy and the developers since it has big pros and big cons.
Might as well just give it a try and do the update.
EDIT: I edited out three questions regarding the changes that were answered by simply spending an hour in the test server. Derrrrp.
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Overall, this update should be good for the health of the game. It will definitely reduce the number of players that are immediately turned off due to the energy system. Now all that is necessary (Note: Another T1/Tutorial revamp is not necessary) fix the [redacted] default controls. They're horrible, and it pains me to see every new player on the numerous Let's Plays that never made it passed Stratum 1 fail to understand the concept of shielding and dodging. I know it isn't the only culprit, but the default controls definitely make dodging and attacking hard to handle at the same time.
Since many people are concerned about danger rooms and treasure rooms, I suggest that the Devs increase the payout for entering the rooms since CE will be the only form of energy we will have available if they still decide to keep the entrance fee.
For mecha knights and laser turrets, why not have them "coin-operated?" Pay a small amount of crowns to activate them.
Remember that most of the people who still use these things are newer players who probably won't want to waste precious CE, making these pretty worthless.
Good point. The testing server currently has treasure boxes in Danger and Treasure Rooms which don't appear to have any change in loot. Assuming the likely increase in CE:CR prices turns out to be true, I can't see treasure rooms ever being viable (not that they are now). Danger rooms, however, still seem to be profitable considering the number of mobs and treasure boxes.
First thoughts:
- New energy system won't be good for me personally, but I know I'm minority here. With much limited gaming time a day I rarely have been using my mist limit, yet I've been always opening Energy Gates and most Danger Rooms on the way. Now I will still be doing no more then 8 levels a day, but this time I won't be opening EG and DR at all. Mist Energy system was perfectly suitable for me - during certain events or times I could play more, I was always able to buy Elevator Pass (which I always did).
Yet I know from majority point of view the change seems great - because if you don't have other responsibilities/interests in your live you will be now able to play SK infinitely.
- I doubt the new system will revive Arcade. I was playing mostly Arcade since beta and missions haven't changed a thing. If somebody didn't play Arcade she/he won't change her/his ways. If somebody was so boredom-resistant to grind KoA with mist all the time, she/he will grind it endlessly with elevator costs removed. If somebody has $ in her/his eyes all the time and is unable to relax she/he won't change. It's like giving a workaholic 4 extra hours a day - she/he will still spend them on work, not on relax.
- For those who are worried about OOO's revenue - I'd say no worries - it will come from crafting. I don't expect Orbs of Crafting have better drop rate then Iron Boxes (and probably much lower then this). Being casual but dedicated player like myself I have found just several of Iron Boxes so far, so go figure. Luckily I already have most items I wanted in my inventory. I just hope orbs will be trade-able.
- I don't get how levelling up system will work actually. Seems more complicated then the streamlined one we have now. Those Fire Crystals sounds like a huge annoyance. And I hope their drop rate will be reasonable - unless they are designed to be another source of OOO's revenue (I don't know whether they will be available in Depot but I would be surprised if not).
- I still don't like new rev system - especially the removing of health revives. I'm fine with replacing Energy rev with Spark of Life rev though. I rarely use energy rev anyway so it won't make big difference.
- Introduction of Battle Sprites sounds great ( I tried to find something optimistic - appreciate this ;-) )
___
To sum things up. If I could somehow get used partially to new UI I could get used to everything, so this new update (or actually complete game change) won't scare me off probably. Yet I'm far from being a fan of it.
Well,Im not seeing any mentioning to the loot sistem in Nick's latest news,so I guess that means it wont happen?
I think Atacii did a fine job here,because he is not only concerned for gameplay and economy issues that every one of us is,
but he also opened up the discussion for the Lore/Story/Backstory of this game which is quite well done in my opinion.
Although i was hugely dissapointed with what i saw at the core,i still very much love the backstory and explanation of every aspect of the game.
Never.Ever.Ever.Break the lore of your game Three Rings Developers.If mist energy goes away,you´d better have damn good explanation what suddenly happened.
No just something like:Core stopped producing mist energy-we have sent a team to investigate what is going on.
No.You´d better think of something pretty damn good.The lore is great as it is and i strongly advise you to keep it that way.
Don´t make the explanation half-assed,or don´t remove mist at all.
Well if I can play clockworks unlimited... maybe check back into this when it updates...?
Although like that you won't be able use the free regenerating Mist for crafting anymore
Also if the game gets such a big update, will you finally streamline the forums too?
I'm pretty sure the lore is broken at this point.... or at least, tied up with loose ends that will never be filled.
-Shadow lairs don't make much sense. Why isn't the Spiral Order army thing going after them?
-Whats up with all the angels and their themes?
-Cowboy stuff from gunslinger?
-Storm avengers watch over a snow covered hill what?
-Why do we care about the kat clan and all of that tangent?
-Whats up with the artifact?
-Are we honestly going to expect to fight all however many crimson order people?
-Whats up with King Tinkinzar?
-...the core?
And the list goes on. They don't ever really finish any of it, they just keep adding lore lol. I mean, the story to Spiral Knights is sort of weak. Its not why you'd play Spiral Knights. Or, it isn't why I play it.
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The game really pulls off it's story well with the scenario rooms, and fails at the missions though. When the lore is actually written out, it doesn't look as well.
Pardon me if I missed something, but outside of a mission in progress, why would anyone use their emergency revive for the next level when they can just head back to haven and be reinvited? And I don't think I quite understand fire crystals. Are they heat tanks or larger embers that can be stored? Removing the energy system sounds incredible in theory but it will eventually make the hardcore gamers rich and the casual gamers poor. The mist system balanced the amount of profit between the two somewhat. Battle sprites have somewhat lost their hype but no worries; they were beginning to be anticlimactic anyways. It overall seems like a massive attempt at rebalancing and fixing. I agree to this update, but at the same time I foresee many patches coming in after it.
@Fehzor
Lol, uh, tied up with loose ends? Say that again?
hey guys,
is it me or are any of u a bit confused or troubled by the new energy system soon? like my question is, what will happen to the elevator passes that have been purchesed and are active right now? and what will happen tothe mist tanks that some of the SK players have kept in their arsenal? if u can answer my questions,please reply!
~Warsoa
Warsoa, did you even read the announcement?
quote from Nick, "To that end, we will be implementing ways to give people an appropriate value for items such as mist wells, mist tanks, and elevator passes, which are being replaced under this new system."
there's your answer.,
but in simple manner., they will compensate for those items., :D
Too bad you never took a closer look at the test server,
"Newbies wont stand a chance in clock works with revives at 50ce are what ever its gonna be called after the update."
If you were to look closer at the beginning missions you will see that they give you a ton of sparks of life to compensate for your first time in the clockworks so newbies wont have as much a hard time as you might think.
"- For those who are worried about OOO's revenue - I'd say no worries - it will come from crafting. I don't expect Orbs of Crafting have better drop rate then Iron Boxes (and probably much lower then this). "
But...
So... you're wrong?
@Coelydragon
If you leave a party dead and get reinvited, you'll still be dead. I haven't experienced this myself, but one of the OOO staff answered this same question...somewhere. But I don't think such a workaround is really needed. Elevators no longer cost energy, so if your party wipes, just start the level over again. Other than heat, assuming it still works the same, there's no longer any real penalty for doing so.
As for fire crystals, I don't think anyone understands them yet. Pretty sure this announcement is the first we've heard of them.
Not gonna happen as apparently it is the new cash grab system. And a very frustrating one at that. More frustrating and money milking than the energy system has ever been, yeah apparently that was possible, OOO did it. I suggest anyone who has something to heat to do it before the update hits.
The free elevator will only be advantagous to those who play 10+ hours a day, anyone else will hit a massive paywall stronger than the energy-based crafting system we had before.
["As you play, you will find over time that you have more orbs than you need for the upgrade of your initial choice of weapons, and that you have the resources to build a broader arsenal of gear."
So... you're wrong?]
Maybe... maybe not. It all depends how you define things like "over time" or "initial choice of weapon". Also there's nothing about Fire Crystals in that sentence. Above sentence may be translated as:
"As you play more then 10 hours a week, you will find in a couple of months that you have more orbs than you need for the upgrade of your initial two weapons and one set of armour, and that you have the resources to build a broader arsenal of gear."
or
"As you play, you will find over time that you have more orbs than you need for the upgrade of your initial choice of weapons, and that you have the resources to build a broader arsenal of gear. Sadly, you will also find that none of your weapon has adequate level because you don't have anouth Fire Crystals. Remember you can always buy needed Fire Crystals in Energy Depot."
That said I'm not against this system - I just assume it will work very similarly to the one we have now, so there's no need to get hyped. Energy cost will be just hidden in Orbs and Fire Crystals (just like OOO have unsuccessfully tried to hide energy by that new UI).
I guess you will need AT LEAST* 800 energy to upgrade gear from 4* to 5* (energy costs will be hidden in Crafting Orbs and Fire Crystals) - yes, you will be able to cut the costs by, let's say about 100 energy, by using dropped Fire Crystals and Orbs, but hey, you could do the same using Mist ATM. I suppose Crafting Orbs drop rate OR Fire Crystals drop rate will be low enough to generate OOO income. For example: Crafting Orbs will be common while Fire Crystals will very rare - and you need both to upgrade weapons. Plus levelling up has a chance to fail so you will waste some Fire Crystals on the way.
*Probably much more to compensate free elevator.
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Of course all above are my guesses. I may be as well totally wrong as you suggested.
I'm soooo excited (like others) but please sk community don't make stuff like weapon slots/crystal energy (and others, they are just an example) 20-30kcr,ce, or weapon slots 20k-25k just because we can earn the cr easily, keep it all the same >.< (i think many others would agree).
P.S Eury/Nick what happens to the people who already bought elevator pass and it wont end before the update? Will there money be wasted? My friend was concerned about this. Btw i didn't look in all of the sections to see if this question has already been asked so don't yell at me for repeating questions.
Peace.
Spark of Life is a material, but after update this material will be renamed and NEW usable item will be introduced, which will be named Spark of Life.
No point in hoarding/mass-buying Sparks of Life at the moment - you won't be able to use them for revs after update.
why would anyone use their emergency revive for the next level when they can just head back to haven and be reinvited?
Well, your HP is retained, for one. If I leave and come back I'll still be dead. This stays the same even if my party goes down a level.
"Btw i didn't look in all of the sections to see if this question has already been asked so don't yell at me for repeating questions."
If you're lazy to read, we're lazy to reply to that again :D
To be fair, it looks like a lot of the missions early on give Sparks of Life and stuff for completing them. So newer players are getting a very shallow learning curve to work with to compensate for the revive changes. While that doesn't give any new information about how easy it is to obtain them for endgame players, in a way it kind of makes sense, since endgame players at this point are expected to not die so much, thus mitigating the need for Sparks of Life in the first place.
Also, for those who are worried about the market stability post-update, if the test server is any indication then OOO has actually fleshed out the fire crystal thing rather well, once you read the tooltips they provide. I won't post any spoilers, don't worry, but if it works as well in practice as it looks on paper and in testing, then yeah the market's not going to tank as hard as I originally thought. It'll definitely change, but it won't fail.
I find it interesting to note that due to the setup of the system, the crown to orb/spark ratio will always remain the same, since they are both drops from monsters. Of course they can be influenced by supply and demand, but they'll always have a fairly stable price, no matter how much people farm crowns
I have been playing Spiral Knights for a good while now and to me it was a shame i only had a limited amount of time i could play per day. But thanks to the new free elevator system and new game mechanics i can have endless fun every day and a great new experience for me to enjoy with my friends.