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So this is what OOO is doing to our suggestions and junk

106 replies [Last post]
Wed, 11/06/2013 - 03:48
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy

We have.... A ton of GMs.... Many who could take the time to at least answer our questions on their lunch break, instead of skimming through them all and laughing at us like we're just some form of talking wallet made in Africa.

But no... The many questions that people ask are left unanswered... It's far more important to get bugged updates out, instead of answering the players before they get sick of waiting, and take their money elsewhere.

It's Soooo much more important to keep giving us bugged patches, instead of answering why we can't find radiants like we used to.

I dare one of these GMs to ignore this... If they do, it just proves that they don't care about customer service.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 03:57
#1
Scirio's picture
Scirio
Mhm.

I agree that there is a lot of stuff that could use some form of an answer that the GMs simply ignore.

Would be nice if the GMs actually acted as....well GMs, right now they're more or less online police officers who hardly share any connection to the players.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 04:42
#2
Neueragon's picture
Neueragon
unluckily I gotta agree

GMs are still helpful, but still, they could have more connection with players, for example, how often do normal players get to see a GM? mostly never, maybe once in their whole SK playtime. and with the forums, again, they only post something once in a blue moon.
though there is one problem, the GMs arent devs, which means that no matter how much they like the suggestions they find here, they may never be implemented

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 04:47
#3
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
This is not just about

This is not just about suggestions, it's also about why we are being deprived of radiants, answers, and just all around acknowledgement.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 04:53
#4
Midnight-Dj's picture
Midnight-Dj
:|

Trust me, you will began to appreciate their silent once you play some other smaller games where the GMs abuses their power and ban who ever the heck they like. It is never a GM's destiny to change the forums, it is their destiny to leave it the way it is.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 05:44
#5
Blazzberry's picture
Blazzberry
I have no mouth and I need to scream.

You have to consider the gm's are people too. Maybe they're not always reading on this game. Im sure some of them have families and personal matters they attend to first before "laughing" at us on the forums.

Also, consider the following.

Suppose a gm did respond to this thread. Now how many people do you think would bombard them with negative questions, remarks, or just flat out get over hyped that one spoke. Yes, I know that if they did speak more this wouldn't be a problem. But even if they did im sure 75% of the forums would lash out at them if they got the chance. And if they banned anyone out of anger well that wouldnt be good now, would it?

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 05:50
#6
Lanieu's picture
Lanieu
I'm not entirely sure if GM's

I'm not entirely sure if GM's work full 8 hour days for OOO.

Anyone know?

But I agree, the silence and lack of responses to good questions is annoying.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 05:56
#7
Draycos's picture
Draycos

Midnight, trading one evil for another doesn't warrant appreciation.

I remember making a topic about this and also filing a support ticket. The answer I got was that they prefer to let the community say everything in order to avoid influencing the discussion.

I now see how idiotic I was to let that thread die off, with an answer like that.

There are some cases where there is either nothing to discuss, or it's been discussed to death. At that point, there is no excuse for saying absolutely nothing to the players. Radiants, oRSS, balancing enemies, gear, and Sprites, claiming Obsidian weapons are totally, functionally new, etc. etc.

I mean, honestly, the devs at Warframe try to sit out too, but they comment on the most popular ideas every week or so through their "Hot Topics" threads. That's an example of the "minimal impact" ideals actually working.

@Blazzberry If that's all that takes to set off a moderator, then they shouldn't be moderating. Besides, I'm 90% sure everyone would be happier if we got a response, unless it turns out their reasoning is made of jell-O and glue.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 09:37
#8
Shiki-Yamaxanadu

The Game Master want us to appreachiate the game, not slander it. I think they want their audience to have a better attitude and have the patience to wait.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 09:39
#9
Bitsbee's picture
Bitsbee

"I think they want their audience to have a better attitude and have the patience to wait."

I don't think that's not going to go so well with these guys.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 09:53
#10
Xd-Myname
sad

the gamw used to be fun but now its just money... removing the revive system... new forge system with no radiants available. so many bugs but they never ensure that they will fix it.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 10:07
#11
Cinoa's picture
Cinoa
Omg answers now

There are some questions we would like answers to, but they aren't important.

  • 1: Nick, what IS secret #10?
  • 2: Where are all the radiants?
  • 3: Omg Eury add me

Those are all that I'm going to say right now, I wanna see all the questions you guys come up with lol

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 10:15
#12
Thimol's picture
Thimol
-----

why is it everyone likes to refer to GMs as the one formless entity that does all the work of managing SK when GMs are likely not developers and therefore cannot respond to your suggestions

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 10:28
#13
Aslani's picture
Aslani
_____

You know, threads like this probably aren't going to solve anything. At the end of the day it's just complaining that someone isn't talking to you.

I'm actually pretty grateful the GM's don't always respond, myself. Especially since from what I've seen, everybody jumps down their throats the second they do, asking about things they don't have the power to answer or demanding this or that. From personal experience it's really disheartening to have people pretty much attack you whenever you say something, so they're probably doing the best thing they can at this point.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 10:49
#14
Mininalice's picture
Mininalice
#10

http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/24841#comment-144427
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/24841#comment-150180

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 10:59
#15
Vesperaldus's picture
Vesperaldus
I cannot believe you

I cannot believe you suggested that they TAKE THEIR LUNCH BREAK to do what YOU want them to do. This is the root of the problem in you demanding players, you are self centered.

You get a full time job and see if YOU want to do the very thing you suggested during your own break. It's called a break for a reason and it wouldn't be a break if they were working.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 11:31
#16
Cinoa's picture
Cinoa
Aww

@Not-hollows Yeah, I guess I have been selfish by posting that comment up there :( but you do have a point, self-centeredness needs to go, in games and in real life.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 11:44
#17
Fangel's picture
Fangel
They're doing their jobs fine

I believe the GM's are doing a good job with what they do. The community managers should be the ones commenting on the forums, and even then they can only comment on what they know - they aren't a developer, and shouldn't be expected to answer or make promises that they know the developers should answer. While all of us complain, they are working on the game. I would much rather have silent developers and quicker content, but I do believe our community managers could comment more frequently on the forums.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 12:22
#18
Heavy-Dragon's picture
Heavy-Dragon
Good thoughts on the state of the GMs.

Many GMs are not part of the more reclusive dev team, and as such may not have definite or discussable answers on any events we may experience in the game.

Most GMs on the forums are probably there to maintain the peace and decency of the boards, rather than provide extensive technical research/response.

It's poor form to demand they run to the dev team to find out why x isn't happening, berate them for not appearing when the arguments are largely civil, and of all things demand they work during their off time to placate us.

Be sane.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 13:28
#19
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Not sure if it was mentioned before, but OOO staff are probably under contract and are unable to talk about anything unless it is specifically approved by some upper management. From an employee's standpoint, the video game industry has notoriously poor job security. They're better off simply saying nothing instead of risking a slip of the tongue.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 13:37
#20
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
you know, i would be

you know, i would be EXTREMELY happy to take what time i have off to answer the community. i'm THAT dedicated to this game.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 13:54
#21
Aslani's picture
Aslani
__

They're not going to make you a GM just because you have time off. And like Traevelliath said, they're probably under orders to not say anything unless it's approved by the higher-ups.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 14:20
#22
Vesperaldus's picture
Vesperaldus
@Damienfoxy: Really? That's

@Damienfoxy: Really? That's your justification of it? You're going to claim that you as a PLAYER would be happy to take your free time to talk to the community? You are a PLAYER. They as developers or Game Masters work on Spiral Knights for OOO as a JOB. They don't want their break from their JOB just to be more of their JOB. It has nothing to do with dedication here.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 14:30
#23
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
even if i was the creator, i

even if i was the creator, i would happily answer my community.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 14:35
#24
Vesperaldus's picture
Vesperaldus
If you were the creator and

If you were the creator and took time to answer every single last question that the community had, you wouldn't have time to actually create the game. Not to mention as someone said in an above post, things may be classified that they aren't allowed to disclose. You don't know what they are, nor do you have the right to know why they cannot disclose them. Also, must I point out that a lot of questions are trivial?

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 14:44
#25
Thunder-The-Bright's picture
Thunder-The-Bright
gods ain't gonna help you, son.

hollows, ever seen a flash game with a talking dev? those are praised among all. I would do that too, if it was a little game.
in great games, it's better that you stay silent. unless something big happens, or unless it's just a short pun. if you notice, the only dev that really talks to us is Nick, and that's because he can break from work. I'm sure devs would gladly talk about everything, they just have a tight schedule to fill up. when you decide to rest, you cut off your internet connection and your phone and your girlfriend and stay on the couch. cause programming is a hard work.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 14:53
#26
Sweet-Hope's picture
Sweet-Hope

The problem isnt OOO is SEGA.

Probably they are in the same trouble as TITUS have when they were working on the worst N64 game: Superman, that game was a LOT different from what they showed in E3 (and most of the game mechanic were changed, at the first sight would be like you would be free to roam metropolis to do whatever you want landing everywhere but then we got the amazing Rings mazes) but then they have to change Everything due "politics" "license" etc. here some questions about that made by protonjon to Eric, Co-Founder of TITUS, about the development of such game. (http://www.protonjon.com/blog/?p=48)

Do you feel that working on a licensed property restricts your team’s creativity in any way?
Eric: Sometimes yes, but sometimes it is the opposite because the challenge generates good adrenaline.

Superman 64 was the first 3D action/adventure game that Titus worked on, as your prior 3D releases were racing and chess games. Do you feel that this hindered development?
Eric: The main issue was working with the licensor. They caused us so much trouble. Also our design originally was too ambitious compared to what an N64 was able to deliver…

In other words what Traevelliath said is correct. Probably OOO wants to deliver us something awesome but then SEGA says "Nope i want money do it in this way or i will fire you!" (well not maybe that but you get the idea). im upset too about the lack of fire radiants and im not planning to buy CE for fire radiants for the greedy SEGA. but maybe this will change someday until then i just will save money for promos that really worth it (like the obsidian prize boxes)

So pretty much its the same trouble here, we can blame SEGA for most of the changes and Devs silence, i remember when devs used to post a lot in forums about stuff that will come for the game (in detailed way of course) and answerings players, until SEGA took over OOO, after that I saw really a change on how Devs and GM interact with the community

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:03
#27
Vesperaldus's picture
Vesperaldus
@Thunder: My point was that

@Thunder: My point was that he was being self centered by thinking they should "at least" answer questions on their lunch break. That is the most absurd thing I have heard.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:06
#28
Autofire's picture
Autofire
You are experiencing a PICNIC ERROR!

@Sweet-Hope

OOO partnered with SEGA and I do not think they are obligated to work with them. They can probably leave if they wish, though it's probably better that they stay. I doubt that SEGA has such a big impact. However, this is from an uneducated standpoint.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:15
#29
Sweet-Hope's picture
Sweet-Hope

Thats the thing Autofire, probably we would get interesting things and awesome stuff if they leave SEGA, but (assuming) that SEGA Pays them, they have to do what SEGA says since its the "Contract" they have with them. and since is kinda the same situation well you can expect these kind of choices they have been made lately.

at this point i wonder, how would be Spiral Knights if OOO were on it own and not Certain Company telling what they have to do if they want the payment.
but honestly IMHO i really noticed a change in the game after they joined SEGA.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:33
#30
Migasangelo's picture
Migasangelo
complaing in the wrong place

my suggestion is, everyone just mail SEGA about this, send a mail with deliver note, i mean, physical mail, this will sure do something

or you can just e-mail sega about this

OOO probably is not the right person\identity to bother... bother the publisher instead, the developers are the ones who get paid for do something, no money no "do something" so, go bother sega so they can spend some money on the game, or makie them just will find a way of spending better their money... like yelling at OOO employers to move out their arses and listen to the players

EDIT: even if OOO is not under sega arse, come on, at least sega can give a "tip" to OOO and make OOO change...

we can just yell at the cashier and make him having a bad day for something he can't do. or call the store manager\boss...

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:29
#31
Reto-Da-Liz's picture
Reto-Da-Liz

They don't care.
I accepted this fact, you should do the same.

*brohug*

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 21:12
#32
Sweet-Hope's picture
Sweet-Hope

i remember when they made the changes to Radiant Sun Shards and the community send mail to SEGA, and as Reto-Da-Liz Said, they dont care about the matter. so its pretty useless to complain with SEGA.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:35
#33
Retequizzle's picture
Retequizzle
To be blunt, I'd be happy if

To be blunt, I'd be happy if GMs ignored this thread just because you made it.

That being said, they're always pretty responsive when I e-mail them about anything (usually hear something back within the hour), so I'd have to guess it has less to do with what you're asking, and more to do with how you're asking it - that is, if your first post or any other post you've made on the forums are any indication of such.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:38
#34
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum
@Mininalice

Try again.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 15:53
#35
Paweu's picture
Paweu
"OOO partnered with SEGA and

"OOO partnered with SEGA and I do not think they are obligated to work with them. They can probably leave if they wish, though it's probably better that they stay. I doubt that SEGA has such a big impact. However, this is from an uneducated standpoint."

That's not even living under a rock

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:05
#36
Thegreatpiggy's picture
Thegreatpiggy
Well......

Some communities have outgoing GMs, some abusive, some completely silent. This is OOO, not any other game. I, for one, actually like the silence. Although it's great anticipating certain updates, the surprise ones (or shall we say features of an update) are always the best. Plus, like someone said before, if a GM posts, well, here how it worked out on some other occasions:

"What do you mean?"
"I need more information!"
"Why do you guys never post?"
"Obviously a new update since they posted, obviously."
"Y U NO ADD ME?"
"Potato."

And, well, yeah.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:20
#37
Damienfoxy's picture
Damienfoxy
but you can not deny how

but you can not deny how ridiculous it is to get extremely vague updates that say "we have adjusted the drop rates of -blahblahblah-" without getting an exact answer as to how it was adjusted, or WHY it was adjusted, or whether or not it was intended to make radiants so hard to come by.

when multiple players ask why they've been so dramatically dropped, and not getting answers... you can't honestly expect people to remain silent about the lack of customer service

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:38
#38
Migasangelo's picture
Migasangelo
@ damienfoxy

whell... nintendo and sony console updates usually say "security updates, fixed some performance issues blablabla" as does apple and others companies, they don't go on details like "removed exploit for hax" like windows updates, you don't know what it does exactly..
the "adjusted the drop rates" is enough, i had seen changes on spiral and other games\devices that didn't even get documented...

like reto, we must just accept this.. or simple leave the game and\or dont pay a cent for it....

but i agree with, there is a lack of GM talking with the players... or having a suggestion box and let it alone on dust...

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:58
#39
Avixi's picture
Avixi
Can I sit down? The sky keeps swirling around.

It is the job of the Community Managers to answer questions on the forums, not the Game Masters. Game Masters are not required to answer questions on the forums and in most cases are discouraged from doing so.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:01
#40
Narfle's picture
Narfle

+1 Thimol. It is both literally and figuratively not the GMs' jobs to answer the specific sorts of questions that OP is asking for; they are busy saving stuck players, etc.--THAT is their actual job. They would likely be in deep [solid waste] if they were to overstep their normal job duties by addressing areas that are the purview of the developers.

[edit: Ninja'd by Avixi!]

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:02
#41
Thegreatpiggy's picture
Thegreatpiggy
Well.............

It's pretty easy to know and straightforward to know what and why OOO has fixed. I mean, especially when many people have been wanting for it to change. I mean, the Battle Sprite Update made a new heat system, and that was self-explanatory enough.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:11
#42
Aslani's picture
Aslani
_

Of course, if you think you could do better than OOO's current employees, they are hiring.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:12
#43
Draycos's picture
Draycos

Just in case anyone cares, I don't care who gives the answers, as long as they're official answers.

IIRC a GM posted the rationale behind calling Obsidian weapons "functionally new". Worth noting, all ye people.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:26
#44
Narfle's picture
Narfle
@draycos

That was Nick, not a regular GM.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:37
#45
Avixi's picture
Avixi
Can I sit down? The sky keeps swirling around.

^ Nick is the Lead Designer of OOO, and is most definitely not a GM. He counts as a Dev.

Repeating myself for emphasis.

I'd be very careful what a GM tells you versus what a CM tells you.

A GM is usually not kept up to date with what the Devs are planning for the future. A CM is far more likely to know what the Devs are up to. It's not a GM's job to know these things, they're in charge with answering support tickets.

As far as random questions about the future of a game or it's current state, what a Dev tells you overrules what a Community Manager tells you, and what a Community Manager tells you overrules what a Game Master tells you.

The Devs are likely too busy to answer random questions on the forums or have a policy of not responding to forum banter, and the GMs should be answering tickets and they should not be speaking for the company.

Eurydice is the Community Manager and the one who should be answering these questions, but I think she got driven to insanity by all the trolling, hatred, and general stupidity that happens in here.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:33
#46
Sandwich-Potato's picture
Sandwich-Potato
The answer is simple. Darn you SEGA!

Since OOO was acquired by SEGA some time ago (as pointed out by a hardworking poster up there), SEGA pretty much has OOO in its palms. Since Three Rings is probably under a contract to not reveal anything without explicit permission from the upper management system (and from the government, we all know that it's SO efficient and SUPER quick to process things), it probably can't do much.

Additionally, Game Masters aren't developers. They are two separate parts of OOO, and may have differing agendas.

As to why Radiants were dropped: Once again, probably SEGA wanted to actually profit from this contract. You don't think they did the contract out of the goodness of their own heart, right? They, like all companies, seek profit and gain from a rather cold point of view. When OOO removed Mist Energy, causing elevators to become free, that left a major gap for people to exploit. Play some time, level up all your weapons, and leave because it gets boring with all the awesome stuff you have. In comes the Forge, both a way to limit the super fast grind advance, and for SEGA to profit yet more, by charging extravagant prices for Fire Crystals.

As to the unresolved plot holes: OOO has a relatively small development company. If they finish the plot like that, they won't be able to develop anything fast enough to appease boredom-struck players. At least now people are still guessing as to how the plot'll end. And if players have nothing to do for long enough, they leave. And that means no people spending money, which means no profit for SEGA. Running yourself in circles, eh?

As to the spontaneous buffs and nerfs of monsters and gear, it proves that OOO at least tries to listen to the community, though they can't do much due to the contract they're probably in. Acheron was bumped up to compensate for the lack of a status effect, and still lacks a few things from the Gran Faust (less reach and knockback, no curse, and doesn't look as epic). Vanaduke was nerfed for those people who lagged to death from the boss fight effects. Then people complained about it being too easy. Meh.

Lastly, I would like to tell the complainers, the trolls, the jerk-faced green-livered potato turkey pastrami sandwiches: Whining isn't going to get you anywhere, either in life or in this game.

That's all.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:46
#47
Draycos's picture
Draycos

Well, my memory sucks.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:47
#48
Traevelliath's picture
Traevelliath

Well on a nearly unrelated note, all of my support requests and even my thread in technical issues have received at least a few moments of a GM/Dev's time. They are quite responsive on that front, assuming you aren't being unreasonable/unpleasant.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 18:06
#49
Dekuinanutshell's picture
Dekuinanutshell
This is my original comment.

I dare one of these GMs to ignore this... If they do, it just proves that they don't care about customer service.

They aren't gamestop where they need to run up to us and ask us if we need any assistance, they're not obligated to answer questions. Also its a game for crying out loud not a product thats critical to living. If you really need to waist your money on the game then you'd wait if not go waist your money somewhere else. Secondly they leave questions unanswered for a reason, if they were to disclose serious information about the game that isn't yet completed or there occurs an issue that prevents the game from actually completing their quota (since no engine is perfect) then they could get sued for disclosing false information or false advertizing, let alone the party that fallows them would begin to lose trust in them considering they might disclose false information again.

Also if you really like the game you'd come to respect the people that make it instead of bickering about everything you don't like.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 18:09
#50
Klipik-Forum's picture
Klipik-Forum

When will people get it through their head that GM = admin ≠ customer service ≠ personal slave?

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