Sure! Let's remove Pulsar Brandish And Sealed sword lines and bring back energy while we are at it! And make sparks cost 300 energy!
Why do people not understand removing AT is impossible?
I never thought about it that way, but you're right. We all have access to it, and you don't have to pay anything either, which you must do for UVs and gear. Like gear, there are times to use it (DVS), and times to turn it off (alchemizer charge) which you can toggle with a button at your leisure.
It's more like "Why do people no understand that they can just disable it by default in options and use it manually by holding Shift?"
Why AT is a bad thing:
Image we give aimbot to everyone in a FPS game.
Is it balanced?: Yes
Does it require skill to kill someone?: No, people with less latency or faster computer will win.
Is it fun?: No
Case closed.
"Is it fun?" would be an opinion, Mr. Mushta.
@Not-Hollows Yeah, you're right. I should've said:
Is it fun for skilled people?: No.
Is it fun for noobs/newbies?: Yes.
Excuse me, both of those are still opinions as well.
@Not-Hollows Yeah, you are right.
And if we remove AT, it will be impossible to take a close look on monster healths, so technically it would cause problems. Implying OOO won't make this feature available for non-AT users, removing of AT seems like impossible for now.(that's my opinion too)
My job here is done. Bye.
To all you AT complainers, go play something called the Arcade. Ever heard of it? It's where armor UVs don't affect how good you are. The monsters don't complain that we have AT, so you should be the same. And Mush-Bush's post does bring up how AT shows enemy hp. Just be glad that we have AT because if the SK team removed AT from the game then the forums would be flooded with threads criticizing the devs for removing AT, and even the AT haters would switch sides. In fact Feyi-Feyi, I bet that you would never be able to sleep if you didn't use AT. There are people in countries that want to play the US SK but can't enjoy the experience too well because the lag, and AT makes hitting enemies easier for them. I like AT. I use AT. And Drivers don't use them but I use both.
And if you still won't get over it, then see how good you are on the day stages of Sonic Unleashed/Sonic Colors/Sonic Generations (not the handheld versions) without using the Homing Attack or Light Speed Dash, and if you choose to not get over it because you don't have the games, then quit chickening out and get those masterpieces. If you STILL won't get over it, then leave the forums until you do get over it. Nobody wants crybaby n00bs on the forums.
Well Mushta, Lets think about this
Is Spiral Knights an FPS? No
Do you think its fair to compare a top-down Beat-em-up as an FPS? No
Also, is AT used in most Console Shooters? Yes
I think I poke enough holes in your already riddled argument.
Well, auto target doesn't work if you're moving. Gunners tend to move and shoot so its not totally beneficial. Its much easier to run up with a sword, then just slash and let the auto target take control. Furthermore, it doesn't help a bomber at all.
I don't feel everyone has equal "access" to it and therefore it isn't perfectly balanced.
Why AT is a bad thing:
Image we give aimbot to everyone in a FPS game.
Is it balanced?: Yes
Does it require skill to kill someone?: No, people with less latency or faster computer will win.
Is it fun?: No
Case closed.
Spiral Knights isn't a FPS game. To hit someone in Spiral Knights, you need to be facing the approximate direction of the enemy (not hard to do), and be within range. Autotarget doesn't teleport you within range of the enemy, and manually aiming isn't difficult at all, so I don't see how your point has any relevance.
Just as I always say: Lockdown is completely different game hastily ducttaped to Spiral Knights. Balance issues of LD are hard to resolve as long as it remains part of Spiral Knights and Lockdown gear has same stats as Arcade gear.
I think OOO should just completely separate alchemy trees for Arcade and Lockdown, ideally splitting LD into separate spin-off project. It would let them balance those as much as they want without annoying all players at once.
Thanks for linking that Zeddy, I was considering it but then I forgot.
AT at any pvp games - cretinism
or u think AT+ ASI VH + switching weapon spam called *skill* now ?
People who actually get upset over someone else using AT is just down right pathetic. 9/10 the person raging has AT turned on as well. If AT is such a massive problem and "everyone" hates it, surely 000 would have removed it. It's in the game use it or don't use it who cares. If you lose to someone who uses AT in lockdown, then turn it on and see if you can beat them, if you can't you suck. End of.
Its not imppssible to remove AT. Nobody paid for it, so it doesnt affect anyone in that way (unlike removing brandishes or sealed swords, or whatever other dumb examples the OP gave).
It doesnt need to be removed, just adjusted. But threads like these are pointless, since OOO probably wont fix AT. I mean, they cant even get an update deadline right.
Why should 000 fix it? Because a minority of people who think they are half good at LD don't want people to use it against them?
@Arcknightdelta Because it helps more players with good conection.
@Contri: Are you saying AT should only be for those with a bad connection?
@Not-Hollows: Perhaps. But seriously, let's think about this: If AT was really for people with bad connection, then how do people with good connection still use it? No, AT is only for people that has bad accuracy, or a bad mouse, perhaps.
I wasn't agreeing with it. I was laughing at its absurdity. And yours.
What absurdity? Annilaton does not have absurdity! Wait, I'm Annilaton. Troll of the forums. Of COURSE I have absurdity. :D
I don't see the problem with using AT.
Untick auto target by default and set auto target toggle to none (when remapping press backspace)
AA does cause a bit of lag.
FPS has auto-aim. Cod has, CS has, Halo has, even games like Diablo and Path of Exile has auto-aim/target...
It is pretty common and it is not GAME BREAKING. It frustrate people with big ego thinking they are better than everyone and don't like the fact that others people can swing at them and hit them while they THINK they are out of range
"AT user dur dur"
The LD community has gone so low, nobody take it seriously, you are all a bunch of 8 years old crying about the lamest, most countered mechanics of all time.
Do you see CoD kids whinning about AT?
NO, they simply whine about how bad they are.
At least they know they are bad. If you got taken down with AT then maybe you should reconsider HOW GOOD YOU ARE. Because you got hit... by a machine... not a person... and you did not evaded it...
How come LoL pros can flash out of flash + hook and you can't dodge a polaris bullet? or a flourish swing? or a brandish charge? LoL animations are shorter and the span you have to respond ot it is even shorter, and people still manage to get out of Sona flash crescendo....
That means you are bad
League of Legends pros get paid professionally, and play games for a living.
Lockdown pros do not get paid professionally, and do not get paid to play for a living, and are in fact quite pathetic if you take everything they rage about into consideration.
You just have to make the differentiation between PvE and PvE.
No one ever said AT should be removed from PvE as far as I know.
As for PvP: Yes, AT is currently a broken mechanic.
Not for the 250ms ping player, but it is abused heavily by people who have a steady 4 bar and a 0ms ping connection.
However: despite all this, most of the people who absolutely resent AT (yes, I am one of those) would still be fine with lobbies.
Which would solve approx 10000% of LD issues. Just sayin'
@Feyi:
I'd like to believe that normal LD won't die if custom lobbies are added. Well at least for EU...
I use AT. Useful in guardian mode.
@Feyi: You are saying that players with a solid connection shouldn't be allowed to use Auto Target?
@Hollows:
Not in PvP, yes.
I think the correction (45°) is acceptable for people with 1-2 bars. It counters the distance someone has travelled you don't see due to delay.
If you have a 3-4 bar connection and you miss, you actually deserve to miss.
AT should be a correction, not an aid imo.
If anything to appease the cries against humanity, people who use the mouse to aim should have Auto Target disabled. You already have access to the full spectrum of 360 degrees and every pixel in between. At that point, all you have to do is flick your wrist a little this way and that way to get what you want. Those who play via arrow keys are restricted to 8 directions of 45 degree increments, therefore the auto target correction makes sense.
This speaking from someone who mainly uses Auto Target for PVE, and couldn't care less about it in PVP because, hey, I can use it too if I wanted.
Anyone who is so bad that they have to use AT with mouse in LD obviously has very lacking aiming skill and are probably not very dangerous no matter what their AT setting is. As for PvE, it's often beneficial to have spot on accuracy, which isn't the case in LD because of invinciframes, which means that no one will ride your Brandishes or be hit by more than three Blitz bullets. AT will only help you with combos and Antiguas and gods help you if you rely on using AT with either of those.
Keyboard players aren't the only ones who are helped by AT quite a bit. I'm thinking of gamepad users. Although they do indeed have the ability to aim all 300 and 60 degrees, there's nothing telling you where you are aiming except for your character and that can be rather misleading and not entirely easy to read because of the camera angle. When I have a standard gamepad, I use AT so that I can actually hit people with Brandishes because my aim isn't accurate enough with sticks.
Oh whoops I said I use AT. Take cover, everybody! Crapstorm incoming!
I can't imagine what it's like playing seriously and competitively with a gamepad. I've dabbled with it in a few casual play sessions, but that's about it. I mainly prefer Arrow Keys + ZXC. Those little nubs you call a control stick are just far too inaccurate for a game such as this. Kudos to anyone who can do so, with or without Auto Target.
I play with a gamepad, no AT.
I'd like to think I'm pretty good at LD.
The lack of an indicator where you're aiming is mostly a nuisance with guns. For swords it's no biggie.
On a sidenote, games like Halo do have aim-assisting mechanics. When you aim towards a target, the game auto-snaps you onto a said target. It's not broken, it's just part of the game. No one complains about it because everyone has access to it. AT in SK, like said mechanics, don't spin you 180 degrees to hit a moving enemy, like aim-bots. It just nudges you when you're aiming in the right direction.
I never understood why people complain so much about AT. If it's so OP, nothing stops you from turning it on yourself. You can even have a button to toggle it on and off if you don't think it works for you sometimes.
@Whimsicality
I used to but I don't have a gamepad for the moment. Will await and see if Sony releases official DS4 drivers for Windows. If so, I'll get one of those.
Here's a duel vs Dragneel with gamepad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-GUHJvOsac
@Feyi
For Brandishes, I find it to be a biggie or at least something problematic because of the small arc.
I'm not super into this Lockdown scene, but it seems to me some weapons benefit far more from AT than others. This even applies in PvE--for example, who would dare not use AT with a Flourish on any Fiend, especially Gorgos? It wouldn't be hard to argue that not using AT is doing it wrong.
The fact that it reduces LD to a much simpler and less skill-based game, I think, is still the fault of the designers. We should have games that aren't just about killing one another and testing each other's latency--and hopefully this new challenge mode will unlock the way on that.
@Feyi-Feyi
Does that mean if Sonic Generation's framerate is solid then I shouldn't use the Homing Attack?
"dats different ya derphead"
Uhh no it's not because AT is part of SK much like the Homing Attack is to the Sonic franchise. Don't counter against me because it won't work. Faai-Faai.
Auto Target in terms of PVE is a feature that is like a double edged sword.
You may find it easier to hit Gorgos and Wolvers with a toothpick combo, but what of when you attempt to double swing your GF at a group of jellies? That thing will not aim in the way you intend, will only smack at most one jelly, and will leave you vulnerable. There are times to use Auto Target effectively, and there are times where manual aim is better. Ever tried breaking FSC's wheels with a Brandish charge? Gotta turn Auto Target off for that junk, cus for some reason Auto Target locks you onto the invulnerable shield.
I can smack around the demon of the knight who rides on his pony all day without turning on Auto Target for my Voltedge, but smacking Kats with it is a different story. In the end, it doesn't really matter what your preference is.
@U7654: I'm not gonna counter you because your argument is rubbish. Read the first line of my first comment.
@trav:
Halo is a FPS designed with a controller (xbox) in mind.
FPS with a controller is not always ideal due to the difference in aim speed while actually aiming and shooting from the hip.
This is why it has AT (it's also a much more complex way of assisting you, I checked the wiki).
There are plenty of games that have AT on platform but not on PC, because mouse aim doesn't need that correction.
PvP is naturally competitive, so imho there shouldn't be a function that helps you.
Turning it on would go against my own principles.
Where's Feller when you need him?
Taking Spiral Knights' PVP seriously.
This is where everyone goes wrong.
I use gamepad to play and it may be hard but very fun. However I would only call myself above average skill wise, since I lack gear UVs and connection to be pro. The only display of pro I show is when I rage, which isn't much. Ask annilation I suck..
Technically AT is the most balanced part of the game because every person has access to it the instant they walk into lockdown and continue to have access to it throughout the entirety of the game.