Then why do you think I said "This is like everyone's complaints mashed into one"?

You... are making irony. Ban-worthy irony ._.

Standing up for yourself on the internet is not the same as standing up for yourself in real life.

Apologies in advance for the wall of text. Sections are labeled accordingly to those they pertain to.

The following section is pretty much for Zeddy and anyone else who has made an intelligible attempt at making a post that involves some sort of constructive discussion in regards to the topics in the main post:

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@ Zeddy:Highlighting the videos, I can see what you mean about the bombs - wasn't aware they were designed that way. Kind of odd in that capacity, since the bombs themselves were already taken down a notch. If I had to guess though, this is probably an unintended side effect considering your examples of the Blitz, Brandishes and Alchemers don't have the same restrictions. I firmly believe that the Alchemers having the internal ricochet is also an unintended side effect, considering how it tends to just kind of... happen, as long as you don't aim for dead center of whatever you're shooting at. To my knowledge, there hasn't been a confirmation on how to accurately reproduce this outside of that one method unless the enemy is frozen/shocklocked long enough to continuously chain the internal ricochets. Would be worth testing though.

However, for Brandishes, I think it's a bit more arguable that the frames aren't necessarily an issue, since it varies based on the status affliction (i.e. it may or may not happen with Voltedge or Glacius depending on whether the status is successfully dealt). The way the attack works also indicates that it's meant to deal out a significant amount of damage in the capacity that it does - the only issue is that it's not entirely consistent between each Brandish line. And to be honest, I can't really give an explanation for the Seraphynx Ray - it's clearly the Dazzling variant that deals bonus damage to fiends and undead. Initially, I thought the "tinks" were because of the defense debuff reaching it's maximum, and simply negated any additional damage as (yet again) an unintentional effect. Never really considered much more of it since I rarely use the pets' attacks for much of anything.

In regards to the Ultra Fire Orb item (can't remember the official name, can't be arsed to look it up either) - I can see how that would be intentionally programmed to prevent the damage stacking up as quickly. In the video you provide, especially towards the latter half of your demonstration, the damage negation looks to be a direct result of you continuously circling the enemy to allow the single orb to deal the damage, as opposed to letting the orbs cycle as they normally would. It might very well be a safeguard to prevent an item from being more powerful than the Knight's weaponry, and again, is what I was referring to with the concept of artificial longevity when dealing with monsters. While I doubt it makes much of a difference as to whether it's one orb that triggers it or both orbs, it would bring into question whether the item itself has a "damage limit" on it as to how much it can inflict on a single enemy, or if it's cumulative between all the enemies it hits.

Also, side note on the broken input - I'm pretty sure that's a result of the controllers essentially having a "double" input for lack of a better term in the triggers. I'm not keen on the official word for it, but basically if you fully press the button and release it, it registers the trigger press twice. I'd like to say this was probably designed with FPS games - or shooting games in general - in mind, and is one of the reasons why hardware modifications to the controllers get made in order to limit the range of motion you can get from the trigger press. It allows for faster button input without demanding an excessive amount of finger dexterity from the individual to do so. As a result, I've had to switch my button layouts so that the triggers swap between the next/previous weapons as opposed to initiating any kind of attacks. Troublesome, yes. Shoddy programming, maybe. But not entirely their fault, since not every controller is designed with the same ideas in mind.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not attempting to defend OOO for shoddy programming - at the end of the day, that's their fault for either programming it that way unintentionally and not testing it adequately, or programming it in such a way without explaining the mechanics either on the test forums or in the patch notes. Even if they only gave the most basic of descriptions in terms of how the weapon was designed to function, it would be better than nothing since at least then they've acknowledged it.

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Okay, now that we've gotten the more constructive part of this post out of the way...

To those who are either:

A) taking it upon themselves to get offended at something completely [frosty]
B) taking it upon themselves to contribute nothing to this thread aside from mindless drivel (hint: if you haven't discussed the topics mentioned in this thread in any capacity, then hi.)
C) taking it upon themselves to drag in other thread topics (which are nigh unrelatable to this one in every fashion)

Here is what I hope the general consensus is to what you actually think about anything aside from the topic of discussion.

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In relation to the concepts of unbalanced weaponry that have been brought up - gonna just steal some of Sandwich-Potato's list and nestle it in right here, and go through the weapons that haven't been addressed specifically in order to shed light on the damage scales.

Chaos Set vs. Mad Bomber Set: The issue here is that the Chaos set applies universal bonuses (Swords, Guns, Bombs) - the very same bonuses that the Mad Bomber set confers to just bombs. In essence, the Chaos set is superior to the Mad Bomber set in every practical application because of its versatility and compatibility with a variety of weapons in comparison to the Mad Bomber's boosts to... only bombs? Yeah, not sure who the genius was who stated that the Chaos Sets were balanced (gonna take a stab in the dark and say it was one of the trifecta of idiocy - Tweeter, Sirius or Annilation, can't really go wrong with any of them as a choice), but you should stick to reading if you're going to assert that the Chaos set was designed with every aspect of balance in mind.

Cautery Sword: Would be nice to see a 5* line for a lot of the weapons that stop at 2*, 3*, or 4*. Not necessarily a matter of balance as it is a matter of content. ASI VH Cautery Sword too pro though.

Rigadoon and Flamberge: Trade off of damage for status - why is it unbalanced though? Take a look at other weapons that deal status effects on the regular attack and tell me how many keep the status chance restricted to a "slight" chance of "weak" status? Pretty much none. Just looking at the sword lines themselves, Fang of Vog deals "strong" status on the regular swing with the listed probability of that happening being "good" - at the drawback of having a slow swing speed. Is it a Flourish line? No. Does it indicate a lack of consideration for other weapons when assigning weapon properties? Possibly. If you go through the guns, the only ones that even list their status chances as "slight" are the Plague Needle and Volcanic Pepperbox lines - both of which will inflict "Moderate" status for their respective types. Why is this still better than the Flourish status variants? Because the autogun lines have 18 chances per charge attack to inflict that status - not even considering the chances for the guns uncharged, that's already much better than other options available with the same "slight" chance.

Leviathan Blade vs. Cold Iron Vanquisher: Genuinely not sure what we're getting at here, but if you take into consideration the amount of armors that confer sword damage bonuses (hint: there's 4 total, just from the 5* lines - Chaos, Skolver, Snarbolax, Heavenly Iron, and then 5 if you count Fencing Jacket and try to justify it with some crackpot idea that it rewards players who give up defense for offense), the damage bonus from specialized weaponry ends up paling in comparison to the generalized bonuses these armors can grant, which ends up making specialized armors and weaponry useless.

Troika and Sudaruska: Inconsistent with their status dealings despite doing the exact same damage as the other line - this isn't taking into consideration the essentially-superior option of the Warmaster Rocket Hammer, which deals the exact same damage on the first and third swing as the Troika lines do for their combo, while still having a second attack in the combo that can hit up to three times if aimed appropriately. All of this is while having a swing speed that puts it on par with most three-swing weapons, while having the damage areas of a heavy sword. Brandish, Flourish, doesn't matter. This kind of turned into a tangent about the hammer, but to drive the point home - the only places that these two swords shine are against enemies that resist Elemental damage from a Divine Avenger swing, or enemies that resist Shadow damage from a Gran Faust. And that can easily be remedied by getting a Gran Faust and Divine Avenger.

And what's great is that all of the above examples are just the more common examples. This isn't looking at inconsistencies between armors or shields that further throw the balancing aspect of this game off.

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Now, we can sit here all day and pretend that the game is "balanced" in terms of weaponry and their applications, but to be blunt about it - [no personal attacks please]. I'm going to go ahead and just hedge out the idea of someone getting upset with this post as well, to which I implore you to go ahead and head here and read up on how to deal with it.

If you shoot to the edge of the hitbox of an enemy you get internal richochet(not possible with AT) So if you hit just inside the edge of a jelly's hitbox the bullet richochets inside them dealing more damage.

@Bitsbee

Internal ricochet occurs whenever a 3-5* alchemer line weapon is shot at an angle that permits the bullet to spawn directly inside of a mob. The result is a shot dealing damage+status twice or more- many more, in the case of charged shots.

That sounds dangerously awesome.

since Three Rings does have power over this game, they can do anything.

So, yeah. Under contract means they're pretty much limited in what they want to do without SEGA's permission, which obviously wants to milk money out of the game.

Fine, Retequizzle, I'll stop being a hateful passive-aggressive machine and say something worth posting.

Internal ricochets happen one of two ways. Careful aiming, like Fehzor mentioned, or shooting an enemy as they run towards you. There's a slight delay before the bullets "explode" and deal damage, so if something moves fast enough, a shot square in the face will cause their guts to disintegrate.

This is incredibly easy to do against jellies and Skellies, because of their predictable, dodge-free movement. A well-timed charge attack deals some mean damage.

As for everyone exploding at Zeddy with things like "Well, that's just, like, your opinion, maaaan!", you can argue about the worth of an opinion, but you can't argue the worth of facts.

That's not how they do it...

Sega TOTALLY lets OOO make the gunner update a reskin of a ton of guns already made.

They would rather want new handguns, so players could buy them and try them, and this keeps players longer to stay in SK.

1: We don't know they are all reskins.

2: SEGA would like reskins more, as they're easier to make. Just slap a new effect and skin on the model, and that's it. With making a new gun, there'd be tests, bug removing, etc.

@Bitsbee
silly internal ricochets, this may be a good example http://youtu.be/ElPF14fPRL4?t=4m49s

O I C.

Thanks for the video.

EDIT: @Rezzler

"Imagine if Bethesda made SK.....Skyrim 2.0 in sales!"

"Like Skyrim with Bombs."-IGN

SEGA pretty darn does care if it means they make less profit. I think they would care if they didn't make some money out of this.

I feel special now.

It takes a few hours to make a reskin. Dozens buy it. A few hundred or maybe thousand dollars are made.

It takes a few months to make new guns. Hundreds buy it. A few thousand or tens of thousand dollars are made.

See what I mean?

Lol at that ^
Starts argument, ends argument by stating how arguing is inefficient.

Dogs can't be Vampires.

@Canine, yes indeed.
The problem with MMOGs is that as it gets bigger and more crowded, it becomes less satisfactory and therefore the game degrades. It is unless the developers can fulfill the expectations met by the consumers with ever expanding content and updates can the game keep going. We can review this with the Butler's Curve.

Some games tend to survive longer because of community contributions, such as TF2, Minecraft et cetera. Otherwise, games survive because of very constant updates, such as Maplestory, Runescape...

@Sirius-Voltbreaker:

Ok, since you brought up a true story here, and seemed to be serious, it deserves a serious reply from me.

So here is the deal. I do think Peter's friends or the people that hurt Amanda are slightly responsible for what happened to them, however, the ones I blame are the parents. If they just don't monitor their kids, educate, and guide them, they don't deserve having ones in the first place. To be honest, all of that would have been reduced quit a lot if kids were heavily monitored and or even not allowed to use the internet. Young people have no understanding of the outside world and how it works *As if I know...*, so it's like throwing a baby in the deep forest, then expecting wolves to cuddle and play peek-a-boo with him. Same goes for the people that posted: "Peter is retard" thing, if they had good guidance from their parents, that wouldn't have happened. Kids nowadays got barely a fragment of morals and respect to other people. So in the end, the one to blame completely are the parents, for not handling the shyness of Peter, or not monitoring Amanda, not the offenders or the victim themselves.

Punchline of this? Kids shouldn't be allowed on the internet, unless they are 100% responsible of anything that happens to them.

Don't I remember someone saying on another thread they're waiting for the equivalent of a driver's license in order to be on the internet? 'Cuz I'm pretty sure anyone above 13 is safe to use a computer depending on where they're going is safe or not.

tweeter, I remember you you are talking to zeddy. he probably already knows what to do and he is already used to the problems. it's just that OOO doesn't respond. now zeddy has done his statement, and it practically says that some error just can't be fixed.
if I read it right.

which matters because?
exiting from the "forum newbie" status means that you know that everything that the GM can post on a relevant discussion is "we're listening, don't worry, keep going on as this post never existed". I've been here for a while.
besides, 1 zeddy isn't aiming for a GM response, because he wouldn't talk about community problems if it did, 2 GMs =/= OOO staff that solves issues about the game in general. and these aren't even solvable issues.

/shourt FRAP! I MEAN TO SAY "USE"! THAT WAS AN ACCIDENT! D8<

Back on topic, please ignore that and pretend I typed "use" like I originally intended.

SK isn't the first MMO I've played. I know the difference between GMs and CMs. Heck, I remember Harry (Listener) posting on my thread of my thoughts of the new candlestick keep music (long buried).

I don't care if he's right or if I'm right. SK is fun as heck for me and I don't plan on quitting anytime soon (unless I get forumbanend or permabanned). Heck, I can recognize chromalisks, slag walkers, other mechs, swarm-infected monsters, or even things within my Maskeraith's chaotic haze a mile awa yon the aurora isles tileset, FSC's tileset, unknown passage's background, or anything else cameo in there. It's not like they have perfectly accurate body paint on them. Zeddy's eyes are not my problem. The least I can do is give suggestions and opinions.

Even the title of this thread is unfitting. "Problems that have been around for a long time" would be better. If you recall, I play ANY GAME FOR FUN. I don't care about hitboxes (well, maybe a little. See my post about trojans), or internet (just check my router), or how pretty or cartoony or colorful or realistic the graphics are (despite me playing on high). You don't see me going on the forums with threads about the most microscopic details about the game, do you?

In fact, I actually dare you to run FSC with me. We will both be on high graphics, I will spam Chaotic Haze and you will do something else that's also blinding and screen covering (Nitronome, Polaris, Etc).

The one who dies the most loses.