Is the game sub-optimal? Yes.
Does it compare well to larger-budget purchased titles like, say, Torchlight 2? No.
Is it sufficiently interesting and rewarding for a large number of people, including myself, to play on occasion? Yes.
Do we really expect Three Rings to fix every single problem this game has when they have other potential avenues? No.
Or, at least I don't.
"too much lag (get better internet unless graphics or memory)"
"Latency gets in the way? Get stronger internet"
Ugh, please, stop saying that, it has nothing to do with internet speed. My boyfriend has 10Mb and has the same latency as me. I have 1Mb.
"or move closer to OOO HQ"
Only if you pay the move.
"Borked input? Change your gamepad for the classic keyboard and mouse."
I use keyboard and mouse and I have the exact same problem. Trying to do some actions after unshielding, using a Sprite or others results in... nothing. No action registered. No attack done, no charging, no pill used, NOTHING. It's completely annoying.
A bit confused.... you say that SK can never be a great game and then say that most of it's issues can be fixed?
One thing I can see that would definitely make the game more interesting is the inclusion of more elements from The Legend of Zelda games. Make it so that we actually have a reason to go in parties. Have teamwork based puzzles and bosses. Maybe a boss that requires a bomber(Crowd control), a gunner (decoy), and a quick damage dealer. Make it so that team composition is actually necessary. Speed up game elements, so that you can't just sit in one area forever. That completely ruins the atmosphere and urgency of the game. Bosses and enemies like the Royal Jelly that can be bursted down should be discouraged (Imagine how much more challenging Vana would be if Blitz wasn't so powerful and if the orbs blocked gunshots). I've always wanted to see a shield that acted like a guardian shield in PvE (without the healing), but it reduced your offensive power by 50%. Armors and gear that emphasized a tanky build or a fragile offensive build (what if you could only wear 3* shields with the chaos set?). Enemies that were too vicious to fight without a bombers crowd control. Lava puzzles that required precise timing and sliding ice puzzles. The troika line could be used for defensive tanks by having incredible knockback to make up for its mediocre damage output. There are so many ways to balance weapons and armor without just raising and lowering numbers.
Of course OOO doesn't have the manpower or resources to do something like this. It seems frustrating to us that OOO seems to not care, but I'm sure there are plenty of complications that we don't know about. It's not like the developers purposely want to make a bad game.
Maybe I'm late to the party, but
> Everything blends together
Compound 42. Because toxigels spam poisoned oil and game spams toxigels at you, there is chance that you outright can't see everything when in scripted battle. Who thought it was a good design?
> The game's engine is extremely inoptimal and can barely render 12 enemies without dropping frames.
And yet game is slightly more complicated than Doom from 1993
Doom? from 1993?? that game has some very weak graphics and animations compared to this game. go re-play it and you will see i am right. doom from 1993 wouldnt even come close to taxing a pc still running windows me on it.
and for all the nitpicking over-analyzers....if you think you can make a better or even (perfect) game.....go take some computer animation and graphics classes as well as maybe pick up some computer programming language books..and go make that perfect game. if not....then just sthu and enjoy the free ride...a suggestion here and there is always welcome, but nitpicking, condemning, and denouncing a game that cost you nothing to start off with....lol.
oh yea, about opinions....my dog even has an opinion, it thinks that other dogs' butts smell real nice. everybody has opinions, that's why they are pretty much useless and without value. ever heard the phrase 'keep your opinions to yourself' ? and don't confuse constructive criticism with opinions...like said title of this thread. this needs to be graveyarded. anything close to useful here should have been filed under suggestions...and not just a tearful cry on general.
remember...go make that perfect game you want. do it.
There is nothing in the world so easy as giving an opinion; consequently, in general, there are few things so utterly valueless.
- CHARLES WILLIAM DAY, The Maxims, Experiences, and Observations of Agogos
@Iron-Dragon-Guild: Notice that I said "game", not "graphics". Sure, Doom's engine in graphic standpoint maybe is outdated, in mechanics Doom and SK is more similar than you think.
And remember that we have Trine 2 with really wonderful graphics that also runs pretty well. So yeah, not quite optimised
Do you have any idea how hard it is to make the "perfect" game?
It requires financing. Grabbing Unity, Photoshop, 3DS Max, Fruity Loops, and whatever one might want isn't free. In fact, it's gonna cost you many thousands.
It requires time. Time isn't easy to get by when you need to fincance expensive software licenses as well as a regular life.
It requires education and experience. You said that yourself! All you need is a few years of graphics, at least ten years of programming, a bit of game design, many years of composing, and plenty of experience with creating sound effects. After all, you can't make the "perfect" game without super detailed 3d graphics, extremely advanced AI, lighting, etc., a proper core game, a great soundtrack, and ultra realistic sound effects!
It requires talent. You might not believe it when I say it, but not everyone is actually able to achieve great skills in all those things.
It requires motivation. Motivation can be easy to lose during game development. It might be because you just can't solve some bugs or have a social life because you spend all your free time working on your game.
But hey, you could probably produce a "perfect" game in 30 years if you cut back a bit on some parts, like not spending a week on each 3d model and maybe not coding your game in your own engine despite that being the more efficient solution.
You know what's even cheaper and more aplenty than opinions? Quotes.
"You know what's even cheaper and more aplenty than opinions? Quotes."
my point exactly Krakob. that is why i think the people here should just be thankful that somebody else did all that work for them to enjoy. because any lazy person can and will complain about something which they did not create.
I think it's kind of funny that we've fallen back on the strawman concepts of "if you're so knowledgeable about it, go make your own game". I'm going to have to remember to stop asking myself how stupid people can actually be, because there's just some stuff in this thread that makes me think people see that as a challenge.
you never know...might be a challenge that ends up becoming the next great game. but i guarantee, once you yourself start creating things, you will appreciate the effort, endeavors, and creations of others a bit more.
This Thread is so funny and so disturbing in so many ways. I dunno what to think of it... (SK community is going in circle and going crazy I guess)
Also making games is easy, Download a software, learn it, and ta-da!!! Back in ye olde days you had to code it yourself, most video games now are easy to make and most of you can be taught to make one.
The only people with programming knowledge dumb down their dev version so that common user can use it. Kinda like how Blizzard made their SC and WC map editor...
Java is a good code for most games (heck even Mnecraft runs in java, one of the most weirdest games of all time). Java isn't half bad when you know how to use it, of course if you give it in the hands of someone untalented it will be crappy... Take into account that SK doesn't have to deal with Z axis (or Y if you are in Minecraft). There is no elevation axis. There is even less to code and to make things work but OOO is still too lazy to fix animation collision and add invisible collisions walls behind non-collisions walls (which is basic stuff).
The invinciframe exist in all games or so, I don't have any problem with it, you just have to adapt to it (bought Terraria, had to adapt, my Bee Gun was hitting so much that the hitbox would never register any other attacks because of so much consecutive hits)
SK have many flaws, and like most games, balancing is one of them. But the core of the game is wonky, unpolished and quite frankly, unappealing anymore. (I even left out my bomber suggestion Thread because there is no point, OOO doesn't believe in SK and it shows when I stepped on others F2P games)
And you will always lose framerates when there's lots of wonky coded animations and hitbox...
Btw Zeddy I gunned down 2 trojans with 1 blitz charge on D24 (not a huge feat but you said Blitz can't do double kills XD)
Edit: forgot to add this
/poke zeddy
That's not the point. The point is that there are several gamedevs in this community but we can't just magically make our dreams happen. Zeddy, I believe HexZyle, I, and probably many others are gamedevs but we can't make the perfect game, even if we tried because of all the things I said. Don't tell people to do things that are impossible. There is no universally perfect game and being able to just try requires a lot of luck. Three Rings, a dependent studio owned by SEGA, definitely have the ability to work on things like what Zeddy said. I would tell you how but it's all self explanatory, except for two things.
Although it's simple to say, it would be hard but probably rather needed to rewerite the whole game in another engine preferably not using Java as Java can't be optimised an awful lot.
The lag issues could be fixed if SK was simply made into a game that is not an MMORPG, or at least not entirely. Having the players host the games like it's done in Warframe would mean that latency would be nonexistent for those who host and you wouldn't suffer more lag because you live on Antartica. Naturally, the servers in use should remain for Haven and PvP, I suppose.
I swear to Oden that I will some day punch someone because they call me Crab or Bob/Krabob... Sad thing you can't punch people through the internet :c
Zeddy won the forums. Actually, he won Spiral Knights period.
From personal experience and reading the forums I can say with some degree of confidence that Spiral Knights peaked some time during the Preview Event. This game was doomed the second that Three Rings was acquired by Sega.
You have the right and choice to either play or not to play
You have the choice and right to quit this game at anytime it's up to you
Do what you feel is necessary
If Sega feels like they don't want to update this game anymore
Except with prize boxes and reskin costumes and armors etc
That's their right and choice
I love this game and if that changes I'll quietly step away
You have the right to remain silent
You have the right, but what if that is all you have left?
Ugh... I just HATE when people type, "It can NEVER be a good game." Don't ever say never.
But please, DON'T bring up necroed threads.
you have the right to be wrong
It's a bit old but there are newish people here and they can discuss this too if they'd like I suppose.
I guess you're right though, that "It can never be a good game" implies that there is no possible out. A better way to interpret the thread would be "Spiral Knights WILL never be a good game." Due to the treatment it is receiving and the ideas it puts fourth.
'bout to rant. This is coming from a late 2011 player. I may sound biased and rude, but this is just how I currently see the status of the game, where it was and where it's going.
Basically, an opinion, I hope you don't find that "offensive".
I've checked on this game's forums for the whole year, every week. We've (nearly) gone full circle since the Gunner Update's first mention in October 2013. Last status update regarding this update was in May 2014 during the guns' Lockdown testing.
Bruh. What. Are. You. Guys. Doing?
Like, what the hell happened to all of this mentioned the same month? Did you think I'd forget--son, NO. I didn't forget. None of us did, none of us that actually cared where this game was going. The hype was just so incredible that month I even had all the Blasters, Antiguas, Pulsars, etc. prepared with my UVs to upgrade to the new weapons immediately. But I guess the hype should've been contained because of the possibility of never living up to expectations and being disappointed (which we all saw coming cause delays), but you talked a big game with the Arcade Redux, the Rank Mission Campaign, the Tier 3 Boss, Challenge Mode, and, *gasp*, MORE TO COME!?
Our minds were simply blown, they're playing with our emotions! We all thought that this would be the big comeback that Spiral Knights needed to be more than just a "good" game. But apparently something bad went down, Nick left, the devs and our community manager are more quiet than usual (which is awfully disheartening because any old-timer remembers how communicative they were before), and now the game just seems to be forever stuck in a god awful perpetuating limbo of non-stop promotions. I mean, yeah, the costumes look awesome, gotta hand it to the art team cause I'm a sucker for that stuff...or rather was until January 2014 when I decided it was a poor investment to put anymore money into a game that makes seemingly little progress to achieve greatness. We also had a fair share of 'NEW' playable events too, like A Gremlin in Knead, March of the Tortodrones, Grinchlin Assault, and Shroud of the Apocrea, which were all nice, some rage inducing, albeit nice. Though the problem with all of these events are that they're only available in short bursts throughout the year, which doesn't make for holding a player staying tied to the game when the core attraction is suppose to be the Arcade (and Missions?), but neither get the updates they desperately need to make the game feel as if it has 'true' (if that's the right word) playable content.
Putting how stagnant the game is aside, most here at some point loved or liked the game, that's why they're on the forums. If they don't like the game, they either leave or don't appear at all, rarely are those that stay just to hope it burns. Everyone here wants the game to be better. Remember all the extremely amazing ideas and contributions the community made, guys? Luguiru, Skepticraven, Bopp, Zeddy, Fehzor, and Krakob just to name some off the top of my head (I'd link their posts, but I dunno the names of their threads, lost to me) are the ones that have probably made the most significant suggestions to make changes to the game personally. I don't remember every single idea, but here's something, I was one who was pretty fed up with how gear balance is handled in this game, it's full of extremes; Alchemers are stupidly good, Antiguas are stupidly niche, Pulsars are stupidly annoying, Potatoes are on the floor--I mean, why haven't things like weapons been addressed? Sure, it it definitely isn't easy to find the perfect imbalance between gear, but making any attempt to changing them, or at least an effort would be better than leaving things as is for over 3 YEARS. You seriously can't stare at us dead in the eye and say that this is okay. Yeah, there were changes, some good and bad, but what's mind boggling are how Brandishes in particular are regularly buffed and other weapons are still continuously gathering dust.
Don't worry about it though, cause it's clear that nothing will be said about it, just like how nothing more is being said on the Gunner Update, the other game features, or how Radiant drops are still mediocre (though from what I read, people are okay with the current drops?). It's definitely obvious that at some point past late 2012 that the spirit of this game shriveled up and died and that isn't freaking nostalgia talking; a lot of guilds are dying, if not most of the teeny humble ones are dead already. I wouldn't know cause I myself haven't logged on since May, but as I'm sure everyone has seen before,
the Steam Charts data of Spiral Knights. This game is dying. Not even trying to be be pessimistic doomsayer, but it's obvious and unarguable truth. Naysayers can say that doesn't represent the whole game's population, but so what if it doesn't? Are you going to debunk the fact that the Steam population is shrinking just cause of that? It's a big problem. The game won't die, like, no players left type of dead, at least not within a year or so, but the popularity of this game is going to shrink to nothingness, to the point where the game can no longer hold itself up and it just collapses under it's own ambiguity. You don't need to be a video game developer to have common sense.
So, presently, we still lie here still uncertain of the future. Whoever is currently in charge of OOO's division (or they decided as a group, however it works) somehow managed to transform the original Black Kat Event grindfest into the heavily RNG induced hellspawn of the devil. Lemme just check some of the previous Announcement updates aaaand...yep, costume related. It's just things like this that just reassures me the game will never be more than just "good". And by "good", I meant "mediocre" cause this game is becoming or has become nothing but a cash grab. No, the devs don't owe us content cause it's a F2P game, we shouldn't be entitled to content in a F2P game regardless if we pay or not, but it sure as hell is best in their incentive to provide it to keep their game alive and with good reputation. I just want Spiral Knights to be incredible again, but unless the core problems of the game are addressed, then I'm afraid the game will "die".
BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT IF IT DIDN'T, RIGHT? Take the hint OOO. Please.
/rant
tl;drers: My essay is too real for you.
Lets see, my interest in SKs forums started in ehh beginning of 2014. So this thread actually is new to me and I find it very amusing. Mainly because I find myself agreeing with alot of Zeddy's OP even if its almost a year old lol. The part where every mob and mob attacks blend in with the background had me laughing the most.
But, and this would be a but so big that Nicki Minaj would be proud of, I DO NOT believe that SK has reached its potential. I like to think of its potential as suspended in time. They have all the tools and setup to make this game into a unique and amazing experience. . . but for some reason, it hasn't happened yet. And its been like this for, well for as long as I have been in the game. Now that being said, if SK doesn't change soon the game will probably never be successful. I'm a supporter of SK's success, but if you compare the player base to other MMOs (and I'm not just talking about new ones, ones that have been up for as long as SK) this game is just hanging on.
As silly as it sounds, I still have faith in SK and I sincerely hope things get better.
@Fehz
Let's start a discussion on that. OOO failed to see and fulfill the need for timely updates on an MMOG. The lack of deadlines already show the lack of planning and goal setting, and the lack of a large dedicated team to the development of this game also speaks for itself. Unless these conditions are met, I don't think we can see Spiral Knights from becoming a good game within its lifespan.
Seeing my post about "the gunner update being a month overdue" with a timestamp of nearly a year ago really puts things in perspective, hiss.
I understand we got some new guns and a new shield, yes, but still. That makes me sad, hiss.
Yea everything does blend into the background, but wait. Every monster blinks before it attacks, that's how I've learned to anticipate stuff coming at me
2 OP is playing on a laptop... I think some of his issues might be hard ware or lack of optimization
3 I left ElSword for this game, and comparing the current to the latter
WE HAVE A LOT less lagg, but they have a LOT more content updates :/ at the very least we are getting announce ments on a month basis, another one of my favorite mmos isn't dieing per say but it's pretty... bad
Game n Engine are great, the company running the game is schiit
back on point, OOO and or Sega is at the very least making annoucements, and holding events. Content updates take time, and are usually delayed. Schiit happens that's life.
You guys should be worried when we don't get an annoucement for like 5 months,
Huh?