How about instead of bashing the thread you come up with a good idea, just going "nope, [scrap]" just makes people think your as dumb as a nail.
A solution would be when you forge, make he heat transfer to it next IE: You did one floor on FSC, but it filled it up before all he was gone, but instead it goes beyond, just forge it and then if you can afford the next forge it again. And the radiants dissapearence is a little too extreme, there are 2 floors that are holding radiants, 27-28. Aside from shadow lairs, they drop very rarly on those 2 floors alone... Maybe make a radiant crafting recipe from the campaign, like the food alchemy machine...

I'm not saying that the lack of Radiants is not a problem. It is; a very serious one at that.

Megawatt, as someone who has done Sprite-only Vanny runs, I can honestly say I am not underestimating the time it takes to heat.

Megawatt, maybe you should've taken a look at the era of Mist Energy before saying that energy prices would skyrocket, orbs slow us down, and etc.

High level gear, I repeat, slows you down enough already. We do NOT need yet another thing to extensively grind for!

Actually, leveling up a set of 4* gear to level 10 takes me about a single day at most. An entire set. ONE. WHOLE. SET. There are only around a dozen original styled sets in Spiral Knights. I could easily get everything I want to level 1- 4* in a month or so. But I won't because I spend my time on SK chatting with friends and mocking the government.

Oh, and WHAT ELSE is there to grind for? Crafting? It took thrice as long to craft items in Mist Energy! Getting crowns? See previous answer! Materials? See answer 1! Everything that people USED to grind for has been derpingly easy to get, so Radiants are there to grind for. That's pretty much the only grindwall, and without it, everyone would get bored and leave.

That's because before the update not everyone was grinding FSC or RJP at the same time so they could craft more weapons, giving the energy market some room to breathe.

Actually, they were. It was actually the ONLY thing anyone did, besides playing Lockdown and occasionally carrying a new player.

but in no way a sane person is going to accept 10x or slower heating.

To be honest, I would gladly accept 50 times as much heat required. It would at least give heat passes a use, and allow me to heat my Proto Stuff more easily.

Still, they're a bit too hard to find

Hello? There are many many people out there with over a hundred Eternal Orbs, dozens of other Orbs? Too hard to find? More like way too common.

10x more required heat would only incentive people to stick with said boss levels over arcade even further.

Actually, 10x more heat would barely change anything, since the Arcade has been obsolete ever since the addition of missions. Another factor will hardly pull out us Arcade die-hard lovers away. Currently, most of the Arcade community is full of people who have grinded boss runs into oblivion, and want fun and randomness instead.

Dude. Mega. In Mist Energy's era, we had to pay Energy to even play the game. And then some more to craft without orbs. Now, the energy fee to explore the Clockworks is gone.

You really think prices wouldn't skyrocket if there was no orbs?

Yes, I do. It was stable in ME's era, and there were no Orbs.

Why would you want to grind more? Are you a masochist? Or someone who just plays the game endlessly for escapism? Sorry if I'm just projecting now, but I can never reason with anyone wanting to grind more. What about new interesting content that can actually keep the players in? Do you prefer more grinding over that? Seriously, I just don't get you or anyone like you... Games are meant to be fun, not a bloody chore.

It's called logical expectations deviated from my experience of all F2P MMO's, as well as other details.

What about new interesting content that can actually keep the players in?

OOO. Small staff. Never goes into overtime mode. I would rather grind than sit on my butt in Lockdown all day, which gets boring.

Games are meant to be fun, not a bloody chore.

And indeed they would be much more, had Edison not bested Tesla and thus removed notions of free internet, among other things. Good job Eddy.

Are you a masochist?

It depends, do I get roleplaying experience?

As you play, you will find over time that you have more orbs than you need for the upgrade of your initial choice of weapons, and that you have the resources to build a broader arsenal of gear. This, in turn, will make it easier for Spiral Knights players to experiment with more varied equipment and gameplay styles.

you really should try new weapons btw. bombs, nobody uses them and they are super fun and make crowds of mobs a laugh. catalyzer is insanely powerful and I don't know why nobody notices it.

it's because of that sweet money

then they would have get the costs for orbs higher after they had seen that they ce prices were there. that would have compelled you to pay or grind a lot. they tweaked the crafting costs once, they could do it again.

That's because before the update not everyone was grinding FSC or RJP at the same time so they could craft more weapons

I laughed at this one. everyone was doing those missions because of the payout. the only way you had not to stop playing was to grind FSC endlessly. but they didn't do it for gear, but to have more ce to spend on accessories and revives. and also to play more.

If the orbs were not implemented it would be catastrophic for the energy market, resulting on endless grinding for everyone.

this was true for the mist era, and the SK energy market didn't crash at all. it actually almost crashed when people had access to infinite grinding (mission update). before the mission update, ce prices actually lowered when a fiend stratum was above FSC. /laugh

Even so, has he taken account on how many hours it would take for said grind to last a calendar week?

my level 4 4* catalyzer, heated and crafted in less than a day, disagrees.

Do you think quantity>quality?

I think that to engage with a game you need the time to know what the game is about, which you cannot do if you finish an MMO in 2 days. I have had my share of overgrind in some MMOs and I quitted them. here the grinding isn't much if it wasn't for radiants.

they can always do better, more future proof updates than guns.

re-read the gunner update announcement, it's way more than more guns. they are rebuilding the gun weapon type "to make the use of handguns as a primary weapon more viable".

about catalyzer: around 2-3h, t3 arcade. maybe less. surely not more.

I still use the same ones because how good and fun they are

it's really that fun to tear everything to pieces in one charge? (exaggeration, the charges needed are 2-3) I mean, I have a 4* brandish and it's OP already.

it could discriminate people who are willing to only give a bit less money to buy said orbs

you know why ce prices stay at 9k at times? because people buy at that price. this community has given a couple of proofs to handle those situations.

Because there was far more crowns getting into the market
there was far more crowns

you mean, when mist was in crowns were more common? before you had to grind vana for ce to keep grinding vana. now you can grind vana for only profit. there are far more cr in the market than there were before (potentially, I don't know for sure).

Why did you necro this thread?

I maxed mah Toxic Atomizer to level 10 in 2 hours in Tier 3 Arcade.

Grinding is also used to do the following:
-Allow the player to obtain extra ingame wealth
-Allow the player to gain skill
-Allow the player to get better equips
-Not have the game be completed in like a single hour

Three more words.

OOO GOES BROKE.

...You don't know what grinding is, do you?

You don't know what grinding is, do you? Grinding is slowly gathering the required amounts of items, like experience, or in this case fire crystals, and emerging with better gear.

for you grinding is only doing the same thing over and over again while you don't see the purpouse behind it. players do it for gathering materials, wealth and experience, OOO to lenghten the game.

That's what looting/merchandising lets you do, not grinding.

1 grinding lets you loot way more, since you can repeat the same levels that give you more loot.
2 not everyone wants, or can, become a merchant. some just don't have the skill, some don't want to learn.

Seriously, don't defend grinding. It's garbage. The only "good" thing from it is to make progression as painful as possible so the greedy devs can sell you boosters and other conveniences to make that pain go away.

because you think this grinding is that bad? ha! I can name a few other MMOs in which you need to grind waaaay more. and not only RPGs, any MMO. this grinding is not painful at all till you reach 5*. grind is there to lenghten the game, then you can pay boosters to make the game shorter (and go the the boring part faster).

Okay, okay. I skipped a whole bunch of that text, but this is what I'm getting from you. You think making the heating thing longer is gonna be a chore. Grinding is not a good idea to do, however selling your items is better. Grinding isn't to gather items, experience, and whatnot.

I would really like to understand what makes you think this is? Making heating last longer doesn't mean it's suddenly a chore. The economy is supposed to revolve around the arcade, not FSC, not missions. Running the arcade is guaranteed to at least level up your gear twice. Heating, like any other kind of XP leveling, is more of a mission that satisfies a player once they get to the end, not a chore.

Grinding IS a way to gather items and stuff. If not, then what even Is grinding? Money doesn't simply appear in a player's bank. Neither do the mats, armor, weapons, and other miscellaneous things found in the AH. Items and Crowns all come from somewhere: Arcade Grinding. By your logic, it seems that the economy as a whole is based around trading. That's the Strangers' jobs: to trade their ware for our shinies (Vendors and AH), and vice versa (Energy/Crown trading in the Supply Depot). Sure, the crowns and energy basically go to whoever made the deal in the first place, but the Strangers do all the trading work. All we gotta do is find, craft, or buy things to sell or trade with the Strangers so they can make a living.

How do we find, craft, or buy things? "Auction House, idiot." Then I will slap you and turn your helmet or whatever you're wearing on your head backwards. You grind. Grind for crowns, heat, and items by Arcade running. Use the stuff you got to buy and craft better stuff. Sell that better stuff to start from square one, grinding for crowns heat and items. It may seem like a horrible cycle, but you just assume that all of our items and equipment come from the economy.

Just because a turd smells better than another doesn't mean it stops being one.

And just because you hope you'll find a diamond in the dumpster doesn't mean this alleged turd is one in disguise.

And they address the issue of grinding taking a LONG time. Right now, with the buffed Radiants, you can get dozens per Arcade run. Says who it takes forever? Just because you get bored from barely any grinding whatsoever doesn't mean we do. And this isn't even grinding. Grinding usually involves going to the SAME AREA over and over again, killing the same monsters, using the same exact combo, and mashing the keys until you're done. The Arcade is constantly changing with different enemies, so it's never the same area, never the same monsters -

Alright fine you probably could spam an Acheron combo in FSC and be fine. But that's balance, not the Forge leveling system.

- certainly not much key mashing. Magicka - now THAT can certainly be key-mashing, but it's not boring because of the area, etc.

Do you really want to take 30 hours just to heat each single item when it currently only takes like 3 each?

Says WHO it takes 30 hours? Skepticraven calculated it only takes about 1.5* more time to max level a 5* item now than before the Forge. And that was BEFORE the Radiants were buffed again. 'Oh dear instead of one hour to max my 5* item I need an hour and a half. This takes too long flamerawreventhoughothergamestakelike2weeksperitem'. And in return we get no mist whatsoever (which means it's easier to help a newbie), battle sprites, so many Eternal Orbs you could make a hammer out of it and whack people with amazing-quality materials, free revives, free revives that also give damage boosts, at least 15 pips of health everytime you survive til the elevator without dying once, lower energy prices than mist by a few hundred crowns, which can add up for spam-crafting, DLC buyable with in-game currency, missions giving you the materials required for some free gear upgrades, an unbelievably huge cache of Sparks of Lives from the mission rewards, forge prize boxes which can give you thousands of energy's worth of loot, etc.

The rest isn't really worth replying to.

By this logic, I can therefore assume that you're judging on what to reply to based on your own judgement, which goes against that of the consensus. As a result, your reputation shall fall lower than it already is, and people won't bother to reply to you in return.

And even now they still don't drop like they used to.

Are you kidding me? I was a Defender Elite, and I still got over 500 Radiants from people inviting me to an occasional S6 run.

you don't legitimately "lengthen" the game by making a guy kill rats 150 times instead of just 15.

And OOO can't legitimately 'invent' new enemies by taking old ones, editing a line of code, and changing the texture in an attempt to mollify the masses.

Grinding is extremely tedious, as I said above and before. And by tedious, I mean not fun. What's the point of playing a game if you're not going to have fun with it?

There is no point. However, unlike you, the majority of us actually LIKE the game, and do things other than what you say is the only thing left for us to do. Hai Dibsville.

There are people who disagree with you.

Vice versa.

You think you're hot stuff, but you're just pretentious.

I could say 'You think you're hot stuff trying to revolutionize games by making companies lose revenue so fast they'll become bankrupt before your game finishes updating, but you're actually unfamiliar with the game economy and how a F2P multiplayer game struggles to survive.' in reply. So I will.

You think you're hot stuff trying to revolutionize games by making companies lose revenue so fast they'll become bankrupt before your game finishes updating, but you're actually unfamiliar with the game economy and how a F2P multiplayer game struggles to survive.

And as I said a million times before

omg u lys 2 us i dun cnt 1 mil times u liar

Skepticraven calculated it only takes about 1.5* more time to max level a 5* item now than before the Forge. And that was BEFORE the Radiants were buffed again. - Sandwich-Potato

I might get motivated at some point to recalculate it with the recent buff, once I get good averages for % radiants on D26/27/28 again. It's probably going to be rather close to "almost exactly the same" for F2Pers, while P2Pers still don't have their elevator pass equivalent. I've outlined my thoughts on fixing the P2Pers problems here.