Spiral Knights - Okay, OOO, seriously. [Rant/Bug Report/Suggestion/I don't even know]

Okay, OOO, seriously. [Rant/Bug Report/Suggestion/I don't even know]

33 replies [Last post]

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 11:16

Arilys

I was in an FSC run with a friend and everything was going fine until we got to the second Party Button in D27 (the battle where 3 Totems spawn). We got through the first waves with no issues, then the Trojan/Beast wave came.

There was some loot lying around so the spawns weren't where they should be (but that's not the point, though it can make runs annoying). We were moving around to give the Trojans some good Voltedge wacks before we pulled our Blitzes out but lo and behold, one of the Trolljans slams us into one of the fire trap corners and his buddy follows.

We can't sword our way out because lol-trolljan-shields-everywhere, there's no way to break through that. We try shieldbumping but that's a big "Denied" too. Our pets? They're both Drakons and they're both under level 50 (mine's actually 33), they couldn't do jack diddly to the Trolljans. So we just resign ourselves with a few colourful words and wait for death. That happens soon enough and the Emergency Revives kick in. Problem is, the Trojans are still mounting us like we're the horses. Rage ensues because we're still stuck between two swords and a corner and we end up getting killed again.

More colourful language, Logout.

I wish I could have recorded that to post here, but I didn't have Fraps up and I didn't have the time to go open it. It's not the first time something like this happens, I've suffered/witnessed tons of deaths caused by a Trojan that just rammed me/another knight into a corner and pretty much gave the wall a new wallpaper.

I won't bother suggesting OOO makes Revives usable when we want because there's already threads for that here and here. There's probably more around but I can't be bothered to dig around Google for more.

I just remembered I have to go feed my Drakon, she's probably hungry and I just stormed out after the Trojan deal.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 11:20

Klipik-Forum

I hear stun vials work for this. Personally, I just use shadow cloak. :3

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 11:27

Playerman

---

Projectiles knock Trojans back a bit. A Peacemaker or Blitz is good for this.

I don't recall ever being jammed into a corner with two Trojans, so maybe this wouldn't apply.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 11:29

Arilys

@Klipik-Forum

I'm currently levelling my Drakon and my friend doesn't have a Maskeraith yet, so even if I could use the cloak I'd still be neck deep in Snipe droppings because I'd still be stuck in the corner.

As for the Stun vials, I didn't have any on me nor did I know about that. Does the knockback actually work while the Trojans are facing us, though? As far as I know the shields also block statuses from vials and haze bombs (unless they are hit with the vial in the back/have their back facing the centre of the bomb).

EDIT: Greninja'd.

@Playerman

I don't think that applies with two Trojans. We were spamming everything we could to get out of there after the ERevs got us back up :T

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 11:32

Dibsville

You could have just shield bashed...

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 11:34

Playerman

---

Well, you just ran into a incredibly rare situation then. :P

In the end, a Spark's just a Spark.

On a side note, Stun Vials don't knock back enemies anymore. Which makes me sad.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:12

Arilys

@Dibsville

... does... does that actually knock Trojans back?!

Shows how much I care about the Shield Bash, though :T

@Playerman

We didn't even use Sparks. We got the ERev, died again and just ragequit. I guess just have fuses shorter than the Old Radiant Sun Shards. Oops.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 12:17

Dibsville

Shield bash knocks back almost everything except unique enemies (some bosses, some mini-bosses, etc).

Would have been really helpful when you were invincible for that short time after you used your Emergency Revive.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 13:29

Blazzberry

I have no mouth and I need to scream

Knyack knyack knyack.

On the note about the knockback with guns, if its two trojans it takes a single one shot to knock both of them back since the shots scatter up close. Single bullets such as the AP and alchemers won't hit both at the same time. Also, one spark would have saved your life via knockback.

And Im pretty sure trying to shield bash something bigger than your shield results in you getting punished, aka shield bash on shield. (Making your knight stand still for a total of 3 seconds immobilized. Aren't trojans resistant to stun anyways?

All in all, this sounds like something that you should laugh about later on in the future considering how rare this happens. Yes it has happened to me once.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 13:54

Quartiq

Stun vials don't have knockback like they used to any more. They may still have a minimal amount but no greater than any other vial, but don't think they would have helped you much here. Ouchies D:

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 14:16

#10

Zeddy

This is why noone should go anywhere without Nitronome.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 15:59

#11

Arilys

@Zeddy

Ironically, me and my friend have been using Nitronome pretty often in the Clockworks... (dat feel when you can just stand in the middle of the third room of an arena spamming that during the whole last wave and take no damage)

Oh well, that was more of a vent anyway, I'm over it by now :p Hopefully I'll remember to try the Shield Bash if it ever happens again >_>

Or, if that ends up failing, just kill SK with the Task Manager and hope that the Emergency Revive only kicks in once I reconnect and not while I'm DCed.

If all fails... well, I'm not one to be mad at something for a long time anyway.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 16:21

#12

Espeonage

On topic

On occasion, you do get stuck behind their shield, making escape impossible by any proactive action. It would be nice if the death leading into your emergency revive cleared enemy threat like dying normally does, so trojan/tortodrone doesn't just stand over your body.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 16:55

#13

Qwao

Shield bash does not push trojans around, just so you know. It can stun them if you them from the back, but they are not knocked back.

I'm pretty sure Big Angry Bomb, among various things, can push them into oblivion. Not that anyone would simply carry one for that purpose.

5* shields, if I'm not wrong, are the only shields that can actually shield bump a trojan. By a little bit, I should add- Which is funny when you see how lumbers get pushed around by a 5* shield bump like a soccer ball. If you have a swiftstrike, good luck with that. (Although note that if the second trojan is "behind" or blocking the first trojan, shield bumping won't work either)

I do not know about having... two trojans at once cornering you, but I assume the shield bump might still work? If things get really hectic I usually just do away with Blitz and kill them the good old fashioned way with swords and charges.

I heard that a Drakon firebolt could push/knockback a trojan, although as to whether it requires an ultimate or a specific ultimate skill form or whether it works at lower levels as well I'm unsure.

Did you try to dash? Hopefully both you and your friend can do it at the same time so the "invisibility" kicks in and causes the trojans to hopefully move away.

...That's about all I can think of...

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 17:51

#14

Qwez

Calm down and use your projectiles to push the Trojans back. Maskerwraith 1st ability probably works. Blitz Needle works.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 17:55

#15

Dibsville

I honestly didn't know that, Qwao, so thanks for clearing that up.

Anyway, decided to test it; shield bashing does not work, so just toss that idea. Shield bumping can barely push them back, so you can bump then immediately dash out (yes, this works on two trojans if you push both of them slightly away then dash through the middle). Drakon's Firebolt also has the ability to push them back, although it's not very useful.

Other than that, the only [common] thing I could find to push them back was Blitz Needle.

So basically, your best choice is to shield bump them than dash away while you can.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 18:04

#16

Quartiq

Hmm, now I wonder if BAB would have worked to free yourself from when a Torto trapped you. Nitro didn't seem to effect them...

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 19:21

#17

Fehzor

^Bab would have pushed the trojans back, but wouldn't have charged/detonated quickly enough to be put down.

@OP

This incident is kind of hilarious actually.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 19:39

#18

Asdfhasdga

holy crap

holy crap yes
https://31.media.tumblr.com/9557859c9021aeacd8431cd1e3cd4fe1/tumblr_n23e...

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 20:42

#19

Quartiq

@Fehzor

I know BAB would knockback Trojans if you could get it charged in time, I was more curious about if it would work on the Tortodrones too, as they seemed resistant to other sources of knockback.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 20:46

#20

Poomph

You think you guys have it bad?

Have I ever told the tragic tale of the young Champion, and the 7 Electreants? No? I'll have to tell it to you all sometime later.

Sun, 03/09/2014 - 22:14

#21

Fehzor

@Poomph

Oooh ooh, I know this one! Its about shock+stun+lumbers on an arena level?? Am I right??

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 03:25

#22

Arilys

@Espeonage

That's just it: we died but the Trojans didn't move away. So when we got revived we were still stuck.

@Qwao

5* shields do push Trojans away a teeny little bit, yes, but we had Swifstrike Bucklers. So the Trojans were all "lol these guys are done for" and we were all "fffuuuu". On a random note, yes, I have also noticed that Lumbers can get shield bumped into oblivion and they're about the same size as Trojans :I I guess the Trojan shield tanks part of the shield bump?

As for the Blitz, we did spam a bunch of weapons (I had Voltedge, Valiance and Blitz and my friend had Voltedge (or Glacius, not completely sure), AP and Blitz and we couldn't push them far enough to dash away. Guess we were just unlucky :T

We did have our Drakons but like I said before, they're kinda low-ish level, so I dunno if the firebolt would have enough knockback?

@Fehzor

Looking back, it kinda is funny. But let me tell you that if you ever find yourself in that situation, the last thing you'll do for the next minutes is laugh about it :P

@Squatty

That's exactly what happened.

@Poomph

If Fehzor's guess is right, that IS pretty bad. But I still think being Stun locked + Frozen in place by a group of Silversaps is worse e.e

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 04:21

#23

Sandwich-Potato

/cough

Flame Barrier.

/cough

Oooooh, guys, did you hear about the story of the two Tortodrones and the 3 vortex blocks too? That kept me up for hours once.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 05:20

#24

Aplauses

Yep. You're pretty much screwed when that happen.

That's why thinking 5 seconds ahead is important while you are in battle. So if you get cornered, the one who is need to be blamed is yourself or at least your teammate.

THE END

As for how to push the trojan back,.. research time!

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 16:24

#25

Asdfhasdga

we need a jump feature or at

we need a jump feature or at least give us an option to hurl monsters across the universe

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 16:52

#26

Poomph

Yep, Fehzor's right.

There were 7 out of the 8 Electreants that normal spawn chasing me down. I dashed into a corner to avoid one's attack, but I failed to realize what I had done to myself. They slowly closed in on me, my shield was broken, Apotheosis was still cooling down from the last Cloak. They all closed in on me, and one by one, they took turns hitting me. I was powerless to move due to the Shock, and ended up dying, dead in a corner, with no one to save me. No friends, no guilds.

...In Thunder Fist Arena, no one can hear you scream.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 16:58

#27

Fjne

@Squatty

Pulsar line does the pushing away very good

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 17:07

#28

Fehzor

@Arilys

Naw, I play the Binding of Isaac. I think its hilarious when games are just outright unfair to the players- like whenever puzzles are literally unsolveable due to glitches, or very deliberate dev trolling and the players have to find a way to not die despite there not actually being a way out of it.

The only times this happens in Spiral Knights are when an enemy can spawn objects around the player... like fire splotches during Vanaduke and the tortodrone's lag attack that happens to come with immensely damaging normal+shock crystals. Or when lag makes the player rubberband all over the place. Or when the ice/shock lumbers get you. Those are funny too.

Best is when its someone else and they get angry. This is because they think they deserve to have their video games be beatable + playable, and feel that it is unjust.

The trojan thing is actually pretty rare whenever you get the hang of fighting them + give up the whole "Chaos is perfect for me because I never get hit and am gods gift to Spiral Knights thing" because everyone gets hit sometimes, and playing on sonic mode just isn't feasible unless its against specific areas that lack hard to dodge shock/fire attacks. Like yeah, its happened to me a few times, but not within about the last 3 months. I probably have the game glitch out and spawn an un-passable bombie, or an airwalking enemy that runs off or have time collapse and require a GM more than the trojan pinning me thing, but then I don't farm FSC except maybe twice a week.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 19:48

#29

Finale-Flare

Ive been in this situation

Ive been in this situation before. It is extremely annoying if you have to use a spark.

Ttested:
Shielding or bashing does not work (Most shields will be broken by the charge and slam, with the attack up buff that follows. The only hope is using maskeraith's invisibility, but it fails if the trojan does the attack up again and your shield is still down.

Attacks dont work. Blitz doesnt work. Vials dont work.

If the trojan has low health, you can activate a barrier drop since they do decent smg and cause status, and might kill the trojan as well.

But honestly, situations like these are pretty cheap. Not everyone has a maskeraith, and not everyone stocks up on barriers in the trojan areas. Not everyone has a bomb, with ctr to charge fast enough.

Everyone does have a shield. Therefore, the solution should be that OOO should allow the shields to shield bump the trojans back a decent amount.

Or weapon attacks should cause the trojan to flinch and not attack like they sometimes do.

I agree, it is pretty cheap when that happens, and is an oversight that needs to be fixed. (Spark revs DO clear the trojans, as a last resort. But we are trting to avoid using the sparsely given sparks). Not much else to it.

Mon, 03/10/2014 - 21:30

#30

Hexzyle

If you trick one of the Trojans into using an ATTACK UP! wouldn't it knock the other Trojan out of the way?

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 02:35

#31

Arilys

@Poomph

"Ouch" is all I have to say atm :P

@Fjne

At this distance? No, it doesn't.

@Fehzor

Oh I know what you mean. I play The Binding of Isaac, Super Meat Boy, Super Hexagon, Jamestown, Hotline Miami, They Bleed Pixels and other such stuff, I know how to laugh when a game is completely unfair and I try to be a smartrump and get myself killed because the game goes "Oh no you don't" and glitches up. I guess SK had one of those moments; we were getting cocky. :p
On a random note, I don't think that rubberband lag or lag caused by the Tortodrone attack (which didn't happen to me) are really a problem on the game's side. Not directly, at least.

Also, I've noticed that most of the game's derp moments happen in FSC (with me, at least). That's why I started doing Arcade runs more often. Less boring and less glitch prone. FSC just happened to be in the new gate and we figured we might as well do it for the sake of doing a full T3 run.

@Hexzyle

The problem is tricking them into doing that in the few seconds it takes them to bash your head in. :p Besides, the pushed Trojan could just be knocked against a wall and pretty much keep you stuck (though that would require extreme bad luck with all of the SK Snipe Gods out to kill you). Not to mention that you'd take damage and more than likely get shocked - but there's pills, so yeah.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 14:38

#32

Fatalitizer

This happened way too many times with the Tortodrones.

ER really needs to clear enemy threat.

Tue, 03/11/2014 - 21:14

#33

Asdfhasdga

i was just trying to pick up

i was just trying to pick up some loot but the trojans just rushed over to me like "HALT! THOU SHALT NOT LAY THY FILTHY HANDS UPON THIS HOLY COLLECTION OF THE CROWN EQUIVALENTS OF PENNIES!" and beat me up in a corner

like really ooo, can you guys patch a freaking conscience into the trojans or something

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Okay, OOO, seriously. [Rant/Bug Report/Suggestion/I don't even know]