State of Haven Discussion

As always, our first priority is to maintain the game and provide technical fixes to keep it running.
Maybe... some love to twitter?
GH could send a tweet to confirm that/when servers are down. This would be useful.
Maybe Nagios (or something) would help.

I am overjoyed to see the devs saying something. Even if you guys gave us nothing but bad news, I would prefer that to not hearing anything at all!
That being said, I would just love to see SK merchandise. Plushies, hoodies, T-Shirts, whatever. I'll buy it.
Q: Why did you guys pick the name Grey Havens from LotR?
Q: Can you please maintain this level of communication, even if all you guys say is that you're working on a weird server bug?
~Z

I can sort of answer the first question for you.
Three rings was also taken from LotR (the three rings the elves where given) and since they are some of the old OOO devs they must have decided to keep the LotR theme.

I too would personally be interested on the matter of radiant fire crystals.
3 years of this bottleneck of an endgame is enough to make me consider moving on, and it really killed my dreams of trying to collect and heat all this 5* armor I've had since before the introduction of the forge system.
Is there any plans to make them appear in lower depths instead of partially in the deepest depths? People continue to farm FSC and D&N forever because there are no other viable options in arcade or in danger missions.

Before I answer a few more questions I wanted to emphasize something - We are working on things, however this will take time. I don't want to give any false expectations of a grand update next month. This type of development is a significant time investment. We're committed to this game and will be spending a lot of time working behind the scenes on it.
---
Q: where there be any use for moonstone and veilstone in the future? Because its beem 3 years and these stones have absolutely no point in being collected, and I have to keep reminding new players mever to collect those minerals, because theres no benefit to collecting.
A: I don't know.
---
Questions regarding radiant crystals or other specific issues.
A: I don't know. As I indicated, we are still in the very early stages of the process.
---
Q: Is it possible to work with other streamers sometime in the future to promote Spiral Knights?
A: Yes, I think something like this is possible especially when we release something larger. I personally watch several streamers and YouTubers (for SK and other games), and I think they can be a fun way to show people the game.
---
Q: GH could send a tweet to confirm that/when servers are down? This would be useful.
A: I think this is a great suggestion. We will attempt to improve this in the future, but it's important to remember that with a small team there isn't always going to be someone available to do this. There are also times where people are busy trying to fix it or communicate with 3rd parties (service providers, etc), that we fail to inform players. This is something we will try to improve on.
"Before I answer a few more questions I wanted to emphasize something - We are working on things, however this will take time. I don't want to give any false expectations of a grand update next month. This type of development is a significant time investment. We're committed to this game and will be spending a lot of time working behind the scenes on it." - Cronus (gold stuff to hear!)
First off, F%$& the suggestions the players make. If you do things for other people, you will never be satisfied. It is like trying to be nice to a bully, or trying to please everyone. Only leads to your misery, and when you put all your energy into doing something for others, only to get shut down, then what do you do? Nothing. And would the players care? Not a single bit.
F%$# all the suggestions, all the "increase Rads" or other BS that are suggested. Because once you expend so much energy on improving that aspect, the players will find something else to whine and #!%$/ about.
"Oh, game has too many costumes"
"Oh, radiant sun shards used to be soo good, fix i"
"Oh, BK gear is sooo OP"
"Oh, AT in lockdown is causing me not to get any action"
"Oh, nerf Polaris"
"Omg add more levels"
*nag nag nag whine b%$/#*
This stuff does sort of matter, but very little, and GH you guys should do it your way. You guys know the inner workings of the game, the consumers/players do not. Easy to say add a new LD map, but most of the players (go away Petater, you actually know stuff) wouldn't know !#$% about how that's actually done. I hope you guys are doing tweaks for yourselves, and making the game as good as possible in YOUR eyes. Because at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, who's liability is it?
Do things for yourselves. I personally want to see you guys succeed, and I don't think constantly being bombarded with b!%$#ing is helping you. You guys are leaders, not followers. Hope my advice helps, really looking forward to what you guys do with the game.

Is it possible for players to make maps with an official level editor to submit?
If the company is overburdened there should be a route for us to help. In particular, I was guessing that we could place a map maker on a test server. We could charge access to it to reduce bad map trolls, and to thin the herd to dedicated map building, also to incentivize the company to let us do this. A GM could then vet a top polling map to place on the real servers after.
I won't pay for promos but I may pay for this.

Lethal, consider that you don't need to have the recipe for a brick sandwich in order to figure out what might work better. It's silly to think that complaints are never legitimate.
The brick should have rounded edges, for one.

Anyhow thank you Cronus for admitting the state of sk. At least we can avoid a specific set of low quality posts for the next month now.
P.S.: I know this isn't my call, but an early Halloween event might help a little.

I second Petater's question. New levels would be HUGE for the game and I'd like to point out that we both have the level editor already (just not in an easily accessible form) and that it doesn't hinder Grey Havens in any real way, given that we just send them to Cronus to test.

To add to fehzor's point, we know it exists, as it was showcased online for dreams and nightmares map building.
[Edit from GM: Removed link that included personal information. Please avoid this in the future.]
Petater edit on the GM edit: An intentionally public documentation on sk falls under the purview of that? I mean I won't bother to argue, just pointing it out why I linked it in the first place.
Fehzor: Except we test it on each other first inside a paywalled server. Don't need to flood Cronus with bad maps.

Q: Is it possible for players to make maps with an official level editor to submit?
A: No. Unfortunately the level editor is not something we're going to be able to release to the public. Building a level isn't as straightforward as you'd imagine which then requires that the editor have access to items the public should not have access to.
Q: ...and that it doesn't hinder Grey Havens in any real way, given that we just send them to Cronus to test.
A: I'm assuming this was tongue and cheek, but it does bring up another major issue. Testing player submitted levels would require a significant amount of time.

Since I understand we can't have the official level editor, perhaps in the future there could be discussion for a level editor built with all these issues in mind?
I can't think of a single MMORPG that has a level editor in it, and even less so one where it could make sense lore-wise (lore-wise here, perhaps we found a new arcade gate to dump minerals into but this time around we use minerals to customize and publish levels). It would surely be helpful for the game, and since it could be designed with player editing in mind we could bypass all the issues, such as unreleased content being accessible and levels designed to be rather masochistic. At the same time, we might get levels that have late-added things an entire level scheme - such as the concrete crystal blocks in Crimson Chaos, the graviton explosive blocks and cluster explosive blocks from March of the Tortodrones (and shadowplay), and swarm spikes from Dreams and Nightmares.
Granted that would take significant development time so I understand the whole "let's get some stuff made first" mindset. I can just imagine some amazing levels or, heck, rooms being created with an in-game designer. That way it's all limited to the tool anyways, rather than having all the assets.

I believe the editor is part of Clyde, meaning that it is in fact public. This only leaves the aspect of testing player made levels. There are two ways I could see us facilitating this, both requiring someone from Grey Havens, which could be anyone, game master, developer, anyone (what I meant by that comment, this isn't the place to be tongue in cheek) to open the level and first see that it's decent.
A) The testing server, after you see that the level in question is decent by opening it
B) Just let whoever makes a level have access to those things the public should not.
Now these seem kind of crazy and they are but lets think for a minute..-
Building a level isn't as straightforward as you'd imagine
I believe it's exactly as straightforward as I imagine. I've made my own dev tools and they're a mess! I know exactly how this is like volunteering to stick ones face into mud. Try looking at the Hammer editor for TF2. It's terrifying to use! The devs did a great job on the tools (or they wouldn't work) but their primary focus is on the game itself, and not something few people see.
So.... some kid downloads the editor and quits, or submits junk. Just ignore them. There won't be more than 15 people if that capable of making levels. When one of these people finishes a level, let them test it. Give them access or put it on the testing server. I don't see this requiring that much dev power, since again, it won't be every day, or even every week, that a level gets finished or in a position for testing.
Failing that
Skins for walls, and other costumey assets could be added from player submissions, TF2 style. I've made some in the past, using spiral spy to check that they came out well. Would you consider using them?

Not sure you folks understand that even "just" having an infrastructure for players to submit levels against and play each others' is a huge amount of work. You're looking at this whole thing thinking these can be packaged in two clicks and distributed just like that; could simply be you just don't realise what a dev's job is? Spoiler alert, it's not a simple matter of copy pasting, especially not in game development. Putting out a new product by the way also means ensuring it's supported, and god knows issues and complaints are strong in this community. Not to mention there's another game that's still managed by Grey Havens that goes by the name of Puzzle Pirates. Get real, seriously, off with the out of whack requests. Put yourselves in the shoes of the group that decided to keep these games up mind you against all odds and likely at their personal and financial expense, for once.

It can be a lot of work but it would be amazing.
Even if we're looking at a year, two years, even more time down the line, this sort of addition will be helpful at any time. Would've been great a year ago, will still be great a year from now.
Seeing as they're in an incubation stage of new content, I don't expect anything like this too soon. I just hope it's something that's considered. :)

I realize that my dreams are wrong but I still have to inquire about them. Maybe, against all odds, I will get get to actually make levels for the game.

A whole community of people who want to help, and nothing to put it towards ..

This thread is for the discussion of the State of the Game post and in particular a place to ask questions. Posts that are either unrelated or an obvious attempt to attack another player will be removed. As always, please avoid personal attacks as per our forum guidelines.

Will getdown and Java still be the primary programs to run SK in the near future, as opposed to the Unity assets left from the RiseofKnights project?
Also, will we use more of the Haven Skybox in the foreseeable future?
And will there be any more account transfers from sites like Kongregate, ArmorGames, etc., or is that still up in the air?

Maybe start out with a drawing board Fehzor? It's not nearly as exciting as 3D and all but if the goal here is trying to design new exciting levels, regardless of graphical assets this should be a good way to go. Perhaps even have a dedicated forums subsection for that kind of works in the future, that's far less time consuming for everyone.

I think the game actually plays pretty well. Sure there are some things that could use fixing. But, they are small things. So good job with the transfer Grey Havens. :)

Q: Will getdown and Java still be the primary programs to run SK in the near future, as opposed to the Unity assets left from the RiseofKnights project?
A: Yes, we will continue with getdown and Java.
---
Q: Also, will we use more of the Haven Skybox in the foreseeable future?
A: Anything is possible.
---
Q: And will there be any more account transfers from sites like Kongregate, ArmorGames, etc., or is that still up in the air?
A: We're not making any additional transfers at this time, though that doesn't mean we wont in the future.
---
I think the game actually plays pretty well. Sure there are some things that could use fixing. But, they are small things. So good job with the transfer Grey Havens. :)
Thanks for sayin' that mate!

I know this is just another player opinion, but I'd like to reiterate on some points that I personally feel are affecting the game negatively and should be addressed for the benefit of everyone.
Before I start I'd like to say that this isn't trying to criticise what the team at Grey Havens have done - I'm honestly greatful for keeping this world that I (as well as many others) fell in love with, alive.
What I'm listing are purely things that I feel are affecting the game more than a lack of content-rich updates, and could be potentially solved.
1)Technical issues
Of course, if the game isn't running then there's no point to anything else. I think the prioritisation of technical problems is very sensible. The mindset of working on a "significant update" of any sort when the current game has so much room for improvement by changing some existing content seems a little odd, It seems like it would take less time to change rather than create, but I don't know the stuff you're working with.
2)Energy/promo box bundling.
Because energy prices are so whack that I don't even want to craft things on my main let alone on a new knight. I would probably be willing to buy some energy if I had an extra incentive, as I'm sure several other players would.
3) Equipment statistics
If someone were to ask me "what's your biggest problem with spiral knights" I'd probably talk about this. The gear in spiral knights is so disorganised in terms of power, there doesn't seem to have been a massive amount of thought put into how equipment stacks up againdt each other. The glaringly obvious one is Acheron, but even things like combuster vs Fang of Vog (with the fang offering little to no advantage over combuster) shows how it, to me, seems as if equipment stats are made up with no reference or comparison to others outside of the same crafting tree.
4) Puns
Seriously guys, there used to be puns in like every other announcement. Where have they all gone?
P.S. The fact that I almost didn't notice that the game was transferred from one company to another at first goes to show how smooth the transition went. You guys did a fantastic job on making sure the process for us players was absolutely painless outside of a few server hiccups that were handled pretty solidly too considering the situation. Keep up the fantastic work and I hope we can all enjoy this beautiful place for years to come :)

Would you ever consider tweaking the supply depot prices a bit to reflect how players value the items present there?
To give you an idea, I've repriced the items in question here- http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/116361

I'm sure you guys at Grey Havens all know this already, but I wanna go ahead and say it anyway.
You guys are doing freaking amazing. It's only been a few months and you've achieved something OOO hasn't in years: Communication with the playerbase. All of these crazy suggestions and questions about future updates might seem daunting since the community will never be truly satisfied no matter how much content SK has, but I honestly think it's just everyone spilling over all of their built up desire to talk to a dev.
Good job. I look forward to whatever work you may be put out, because so far you guys have shown me that what you make is high-quality instead of cheap and fast.
Guess I should discuss the topic in this post though...Might as well ask an outlandish question myself then!
Q: Is there any kind of idea to make a part of SK more open world? i.e. exploring the lands outside of Haven. ~Z
Hi, is it possible to have some webservices to view AH and even bid items?
Im in a situation where I cant be logged on all the time, but I'd like to be able to check AH from my phone (while at work, out with friends, etc.)
Im a mobile developer, and I sure will be working on an "AH app".
Also, I already asked about integration with steam market and someone told me that it was not possible. But why? Can we just have tradable and "vanilla" items? Something like the old some summer sale items (iron wolf /gold wolf).
Thanks

Q: Is there any kind of idea to make a part of SK more open world? i.e. exploring the lands outside of Haven>
A: I don't know we're still very early in the creative process. With that being said, I don't foresee SK becoming more "open world" anytime soon.
Q: I already asked about integration with steam market and someone told me that it was not possible. But why? Can we just have tradable and "vanilla" items? Something like the old some summer sale items (iron wolf /gold wolf)
While we do allow for Steam Trade, we have opted out of the marketplace for SK items. Buying/Selling SK items for real life items/funds (beyond what is allowed within a Steam Trade window) is a violation of our Terms of service. If you want a specific SK item, your best bet is to check the Auction House in game. We believe that this is healthier for the game as a whole.

Will you at least come do dreams and nightmares with me so that I'll have someone to farm radiant fire crystals with?

Q: Will you at least come do dreams and nightmares with me so that I'll have someone to farm radiant fire crystals with?
A: I'm a giant liability to have lumbering behind you. I tend to spend more of my time dead on the ground than anything. This is why when GMs play lockdown together I'm the cheater who pulls out The Ban Stick.

This is why when GMs play lockdown together I'm the cheater who pulls out The Ban Stick.
Ha! another one of these "work with Grey Havens to win" players.

Do you plan to make something with forge system?
I'm sure that players will pay for rarities booster, 9 crystals or 3 orbs per box and $5.95 per month.
I bought few elevator passes a long time ago and nothing else. I guess that decent part of players did the same. I got all that i needed and saved a lot of time and money. Elevator pass was a reasonable purchase.

- Q: where there be any use for moonstone and veilstone in the future? Because its beem 3 years and these stones have absolutely no point in being collected, and I have to keep reminding new players mever to collect those minerals, because theres no benefit to collecting.
A: I don't know.
This is alarmingly contradicting.
Ever since the Battle Sprite update, Gate Construction was largely saturated with Moonstone and Valestone excess from the other minerals being used for crafting Sprite food. When gates have been changed into a randomized rotation due to this manner of consequence, this has riddled the Miner achievements into a state of limbo for years until you have decided to remove them from the integral ensemble of other achievements as well as from the Steam Achievement list altogether.
During this entire time, players have been waiting for the implied eventuality of new Battle Sprites to fill the void. Brand new types of Battle Sprites. Another, more feasible option would have been to simply replace the main composite of Sprite food from minerals to the 0* materials along with a function to break down minerals into these respective materials. These solutions would have brought great balance into what steered the Gate Construction to undergo an oversaturation. Instead, what happened was crucial premises of the game being taken away against better judgement.
But more importantly, I have given my full attention and voiced my proposed direction on the matter over the question of what to do with the legacy achievements, only for that to not have managed to influence in the slightest the change that has occured. I can understand very well having gone through several setbacks and obstacles along the way that trouble setting a fix into motion, but claiming to have no idea where to go from here is not something that should at all come out from having taken community feedback for so long. As harsh as this may sound, this is very sincerely out of my trust that you can accomplish this task better than that.
I will take my turn to ask about the Moonstone and Valestone once more because there is still time for these issues to be fixed and very frankly because I believe there is greatly more in your mind that can be done do to solve this than you let on. What will you and your team do to put them back on the same table as the other minerals?
- Cronus: "I tend to spend more of my time dead on the ground than anything."
That is fine. Knights knocked on the floor can still block projectiles, which is a great helping of cover against the Swarm Toxoils. It would prove pointless if your position is at the far end of a corner, however.
- Ogygus: "Do you plan to make something with forge system?
I'm sure that players will pay for rarities booster, 9 crystals or 3 orbs per box and $5.95 per month.
I bought few elevator passes a long time ago and nothing else. I guess that decent part of players did the same. I got all that i needed and saved a lot of time and money. Elevator pass was a reasonable purchase."
Elevator Passes were a reasonable purchase. An idea similar to an Elevator Pass to ease Forging, yet still requiring luck-based grinding? Not so much. Lowering the cost of forging in general would be a reasonable service at all in comparison.

I've been wondering for a while why this hasn't happened, but it'd in fact release a lot more content that's locked behind the pay wall.
Shadow Lairs. These things are behind a 1600 Energy Pay Wall that 4 people have to share to get in. Do you think there would be price reduction for this in the future since the energy economy isn't great right now?

Would you ever consider making the Core (Dreams and Nightmares) a part of the clockworks. So instead of stopping at level 29 the gate would continue into the core. I feel like being able to enter the core via the clockworks makes sense considering that level 29 is just above the core and the treasure room would also serve as a nice reward for completing the clockworks.
My second question is if you are going to reduce the price of shadow keys. I think its a shame that so much great content is mostly unused because of a 40kcr pay wall.
will you change any of the existing game mechanics sutch as the revive system from how it is now to how it used to be?

Q: Would you ever consider making the Core (Dreams and Nightmares) a part of the clockworks. So instead of stopping at level 29 the gate would continue into the core.
A: We have a lot of options open to us at the moment. I'm afraid it's far too early to say what we plan on doing.
---
Q: My second question is if you are going to reduce the price of shadow keys?
A: Not at this time. With that being said, there are opportunities to grab keys at cheaper prices during Supply Depot sales.
---
Q: Will you change any of the existing game mechanics such as the revive system from how it is now to how it used to be?
A: We have no plans to change the revive system.

What about my question?
http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/116312?page=1#comment-1041725

Cronus have pretty much outright stated that there isn't going to be any major overhaul in the next few months until the server is fully stabilized and the minor bugs ironed out.

@Midnight DJ
I thought they weren't fixing bugs tho?
Q: Various questions regarding technical issues or bugs.
As we've already noted, we have a number of high priority things that need to be taken care of (see above).
our first priority is to maintain the game and provide technical fixes to keep it running
In other words, they're just keeping the game running and not changing or developing anything, which is a large job in itself. IDK if that's right but it's what I got out of it. I'm guessing that technical fixes is different from bug fixes, like when servers break or something. It's all very vague.

"they're just keeping the game running and not changing or developing anything"
Early on this page Cronus said that Grey Havens is, indeed, working on new content. Said content won't be seen anytime soon, but will show up in the future whenever it's ready to be tested, enjoyed, etc. Here's the link

"We are working on things, however this will take time. I don't want to give any false expectations of a grand update next month."
Doesn't say what 'things' are.. but it does say that 'things' are not a grand update. It's probably just running the servers or technical stuff.

Will there be any increase in events such as supply depot sales, as well as making ways to get old cosmetics that have not been available for a long time, potentially a way to obtain them without having to buy specifically the boxes and no energy with it?
I'm all up for some more new content, even new missions, though, would we be getting a few new teasers about new content before the updates come out?
Well... I thought you and the buds as GH would do teasers on occasions, like concept art pics about new content, short vid clips that last about 8 to 16 seconds or so, & such. The teasers about new content to SK could get people excited, ya know.
So, if GH may be up for it, we would be thrilled to see some new teasers to SK's new content updates on occasions.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they don't do small teasers unless they have new content solidly in place. Concept art for new content can be a problem if said concepts end up not being put into the game for various reasons. It could cause hype for certain things that we might not even get.
I'd be cool with teasers for things that are most certainly yet to come but that'll be a long ways out since GH is focused more on fixing the base game before they can reasonably add much new content.

If this game fails and you end it's development , will you allow private servers with the game's code?

@Fehzors-Forum-Alt
"We are working on things, however this will take time. I don't want to give any false expectations of a grand update next month."
Doesn't say what 'things' are.. but it does say that 'things' are not a grand update. It's probably just running the servers or technical stuff.
Please read over the post again. As I said, we are working on larger updates, but they take an extensive amount time. Thus, you shouldn't expect a larger update in the immediate future. These things take time and we are making a long term commitment to the development of this game.
---
Q: Will there be any increase in events such as supply depot sales, as well as making ways to get old cosmetics that have not been available for a long time, potentially a way to obtain them without having to buy specifically the boxes and no energy with it?
A: You should continue to see things like events, promos, etc. We've already been releasing items from past promos. Thus if there is something that came out years ago that you've had your eye on, it's possible you'll see it roll around as part of some kind of promotion/event. You can then obtain it via the promotion or from another player via the AH.
---
Q: Would we be getting a few new teasers about new content before the updates come out?
A: As Sciger noted, it's unlikely we will release small teasers until content is solidly in place. New content teasers are problematic if things are still in development because they can be drastically altered or removed entirely.
---
Q: If this game fails and you end it's development , will you allow private servers with the game's code?
A: I'm not sure if this is a serious question or not given that we have repeatedly stated our commitment to this game. As noted before, we will not allow private servers and will defend our copyrights.
Well, it was worth asking that question anyway, Cronus. Teasers are not in motion until all's completely solidly in place.
There is one other question I wanted to ask, though.
The credits page in the game's wiki has been outdated for over 2 years now. I've looked at that many times now, and it's getting tedious. Given that the page is protected and only the game's devs can edit that page, would you kindly update that page in the wiki to keep it dated? I mean, if you've some time to do it, that is.

Ah. So in the long term future there will be an update. Huge hype for the mystery update, right around the corner in exactly THREE MONTHS.
Real questions though- Halloween when?
And
Will there be a sword or bomb update to balance out the massive number of gunner items introduced?
Is it possible to work with other streamers sometime in the future to promote Spiral Knights?