Spiral Knights - A new way to play

A new way to play

6 replies [Last post]

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:38

Akvar

Hi all, I'm going to wrap several different ideas into this thread so please bear with me.

I was thinking it would be cool if we could have the option to join in class specific havens/missions/clockworks/pvp and unjoin at will. My thought was at the loading or missions screen we would be able to load into a sword/gun/bomb only instance of the content that we already have but with some additions. Each class specific instance has an added 5-10 weap/armor/shield options that can only be crafted and played there. For instance if I were to load into a bombs only instance and look at my inventory only bombs would be available for equipping but any shield and armor that doesn't belong to any other class or give buffs to any other class would be equip-able. I hope this makes sense.

I imagine something like this could be implemented without too much extra coding aside from new class specific craftable items. Although this wouldn't provide new playable content it would provide a new playing experience thus keeping OOO's players interested in the game. If OOO felt compelled to take it one step further they could make class specific T3 boss for each instance (a different boss with different tactics for each class). You may ask why only a T3 boss; this is for OOO benefit. It would push the player base to invest in the new equips for that class to have the advantage or better yet the fighting chance at beating the class specific boss. Three separate class instances would equate to three extra gaming experiences and extra income for OOO.

On the Idea of weaps/armor/shields as stated before each class gets close to 10 class specific pieces. My thought was 5 weapons 2 armor sets and a specific shield. All crafted items in the current game that pertain to that class would be playable in the instance but the specialty items available to craft in the instances could only be played there. I gotta tell ya I'd love some class specific LD no more complaining about an OP class that you're not playing.

Some Ideas for the weapons.
Swords
-A duel wield set with regular set and mix and mach status sets
-Items that have a lower dps on regular swings but an OP charge

Guns
-A shotgun with high dps at close range with the 5* being available in different shot types (e.g. splinter shot dealing pierce, buck shot for normal and sveral status lines) make it a double barrel shotgun where the normal attack is a single shot and the charge is both of them

Bombs
-Give us dps status bombs (a fire bomb that at 2* shoots flame out as a flame thrower and rotates with each * another flame is added, a corrosive acid bomb that leaves goop all over enemies in it's radius and the ground, an arc light bomb that shoots an arc of electricity dealing 100 dps for 5 seconds on a single target in its radius but dps being divided amongst the number of enemies in its radius if more than one)
-A shadow shard bomb and an Ice shard bomb

These class specific instances would be a great place to implement this idea as well http://forums.spiralknights.com/en/node/48502

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:51

Schattentag

Uh...

I'm just going to leave this here...

Limiting players to one type of weapons seems (for lack of a better word) harsh. Existing Lockdown classes encourage people to use certain weapon types over others, but no one is restricted completely. For example, it's perfectly okay for a Recon to use a sword in spite of the Recon Cloak's sword attack speed decrease.

Swords
Cutters might as well be dual-wielding. This has been brought up before. Use the search bar

Guns
Autoguns might as well be shotguns.

Bombs
The DPS status bombs outclass existing Vaporizers. Unless you have some way of balancing them, they're OP.
See notes about shard bombs in this thread.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:07

Akvar

Thank you for your feed back.

Thank you for your feed back. I think Single weapons instances wouldn't be harsh but a great way to increase one's skill and learn the limits of the weapon types. I'm we'll aware of how many times the duel wield idea has been put forth, no need for the search bar, but this would be a great place to implement it (no effect on regular game play only on instanced play). Autoguns have nowhere the mobility a shotgun would. OP bombs and weapon types is kinda the point in the class specific instances to make up for the lack of weapon types and the reason they would not be playable out side of the weapon class instance.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 17:48

Luguiru

Guess who bugga-boo

Technically there are no "classes" in this game; there are archetypes satisfied by certain weapons and three different types of weapons, some of which share similar characteristics. Catalyzer and Pulsar somewhat resemble bombs, Crystal lines resemble guns with the shard distance, Sealed lines have a projectile on the charge; there are several others. Limiting weapon use to certain "classes" would defeat the purpose of having at least two weapon slots available at all times. As for the "class missions", the preceding response is appropriate.

Dual wielding; make shielding/blocking/defending possible with it before attempting this.

Having exclusive "class weapons" defeats the purpose of our existing arsenal.

Damage per second does not equal best weapon. Gran Faust.

Why do we have Autogun lines and not a shotgun? Balance. It is intentional Autoguns do not allow movement while firing.

Status afflicting offensive bombs have been discussed and defeated because they would outclass existing bombs, meaning less crafting, meaning everyone goes for the overpowered versatile bombs rather than expanding their arsenal, meaning Three Rings loses money. Balance this before coming back to it.

Crystal mechanic lines have been discussed and a few branches have been considered. "Ice" and "shadow" variants are very unspecific; does one deal freeze? What damage type(s) does it have? Does the shadow one have a second damage type or is it (forever) alone? Does the shadow one deal a status? What are the mechanics? I can ask over twenty questions regarding this.

Making something overpowered is not how to balance different weapons.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:46

Akvar

==Technically there are no

==Technically there are no "classes" in this game; there are archetypes satisfied by certain weapons and three different types of weapons, some of which share similar characteristics. Catalyzer and Pulsar somewhat resemble bombs, Crystal lines resemble guns with the shard distance, Sealed lines have a projectile on the charge; there are several others. Limiting weapon use to certain "classes" would defeat the purpose of having at least two weapon slots available at all times. As for the "class missions", the preceding response is appropriate.==

There are 3 distinct classes of weapons given to us which are unmistakable as to which class they belong to. If someone decides to mix and match weapon classes that is their choice but to say that because we have two weapon slots means you must carry two different weapons is mearly your opinion. I Know people who carry a GF in one and a DA in the other, does that mean they are doing things wrong, no it's just a matter of choice.

==Dual wielding; make shielding/blocking/defending possible with it before attempting this.==

This would just add to the factor of choice. Trade a shield for a sword, it's up to you. Besides I only put this in here as a proposal, I don't sword that much anymore but added it as a suggestion because it has been mentioned enough to show that it is wanted. If you have a better suggestion please post it.

==Having exclusive "class weapons" defeats the purpose of our existing arsenal.==

You seem to forget the whole reason for the suggestion is to offer players more choice/challenge in the form of game play. This in no way would stop a player from loading into spiral knights as we know it but would give like minded people groups to run with, with the added bonus of exclusive gear.

==Damage per second does not equal best weapon. Gran Faust.==

First of all, I never said it did. Secondly, I assume you are referring to a bomb suggestion I made which was made for the sake of it sounding like a cool idea.

==Why do we have Autogun lines and not a shotgun? Balance. It is intentional Autoguns do not allow movement while firing.==

A shotgun would be easily balanced in the fact that it would only deal high damage at the distance of a sword swing and dropping off rapidly after that. I presented this because in an only guns game play it would be needed to have something that could destroy a single target or mobs if they got too close. Plus we all know that running the clock works with only guns is a slow process and having something to speed it up would only add to the playability and enjoyment.

==Status afflicting offensive bombs have been discussed and defeated because they would outclass existing bombs, meaning less crafting, meaning everyone goes for the overpowered versatile bombs rather than expanding their arsenal, meaning Three Rings loses money. Balance this before coming back to it.==

Clearly you didn't read my post as I said these new gears would only be playable in the class specific instance, therefor if someone wanted to craft and play them they would have to do so for each class specific instance. This in no way would make the gear available in the main game obsolete and would only further revenue in ce and cr sinks for OOO.

==Crystal mechanic lines have been discussed and a few branches have been considered. "Ice" and "shadow" variants are very unspecific; does one deal freeze? What damage type(s) does it have? Does the shadow one have a second damage type or is it (forever) alone? Does the shadow one deal a status? What are the mechanics? I can ask over twenty questions regarding this.==

I would be glad with shadow/pierce bomb giving a weapon geared toward taking gremlins down or even a shadow bomb with similar mechanics as the DBB. I would be fine just having an Ice shard with mechanics as the RSS that deals normal damage and a freeze status. Furthermore I'm just laying a base foundation for an idea, if the devs wanted to take it and run with it I have no doubt they could borrow ideas and modify to their liking.

==Making something overpowered is not how to balance different weapons.==

Once again this is a suggestion that offers varied gaming experiences to players with class specific gear. It was never once presented as an option for game balancing so please don't try to make it into something it's not.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:01

Luguiru

Are we plaing Jenga

"There are, but at the same time there are not."
I "love" these retorts.

"We should be able to dual wield without having to defend."
There are countless threads on this subject.

"No, it is for more difficult gameplay."
This.

"We should compensate low basic attack damage for overpowered charge damage rates."
Weapons have different mechanics. This should not need to be explained.

"But other games have shotguns."
This is not other games. This is not a first person shooter. This is not Call of Duty. Guns are not supposed to have the safety of distance combined with massive damage, Autogun lines being balanced for such situation. Any further detail requested for this indicates incompetence on your behalf.

"The overpowered status and damage bombs were meant for the class missions."
Design equipment for everyone and how the class missions work.

"A split shadow-pierce and a Radiant Sun clone with freeze."
Detail.

"It does not have to be balanced."
If you want it to even be considered for implementation, yes it does.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:28

Akvar

I love how you're putting in

I love how you're putting in quote marks on your paraphrase of what I have said, "but other games have shotguns" when did I ever say this? It is funny to me how both of you that have posted here and others I have seen belittle suggestions do it so rudely and use no vision or imagination both of which are needed to develop a game, I'm not saying this to be rude. After looking At you're thread that is linked in this thread it appears that you are very logic oriented requiring breakdowns and stats to properly see how this could work. Once again not to be rude but I'm just not going to put forth that effort for you, on the other hand if a dev came in and asked for such I would not have a problem presenting a more in depth detailed version. If you didn't agree with my OP and my response all you had to do was say so, no need to be rude and dishonest with what I said.

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A new way to play